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Tyberius (Heretic Projects) Lotting and Modding Experiments

Started by Tyberius06, August 09, 2016, 06:25:34 PM

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Tyberius06

#40
Hello! :)

@ Andreas: Thank you! :) I was so focused on the different seaport conflicts, that I forgot about the original PEG sets. Yepp, my set actually replace all of the old CDK3-SP lots (and with a new update in the near future I remake the simple CDK3 set too - Basics and Algee Farm etc.)

Well, actually I ran into some issues. On the original PEG-CDK3-SP lots I found blank props. Each of them has the same dimensions as the CDK3-Dock_1x prop. The prop ID 0xf4e1c6aa. Another one is a small prop, it has the 0x073d48b2 prop ID. Obviously I have all the required dependency from the original readmes. I left these on the lots, but now I will remove, however I don't know what they were. (I actually asked this question or similar in the legacy SimPEG support topic over there on Simtropolis, but I've never got an answer).
The other issue. I checked the recently uploaded pack again in the SC4 Tool and as usual I've got a few missing prop/prop families error on some of the original and some of my lot aswell. But these prop families are appearing in the PIM-X and LE aswell, so they are actually not missing props. They are in the CDK3 SuperPak actually, but somehow the SC4Tool can not see them. They are 0xa000147c, 0xa0001481, 1482, 1487, 1488. I only found these props.
I'm thinking about removing or replacing them, because I don't know if they can do any harm in game. But I open any suggestion, advice.

EDIT: Well I'm not sure, because I do not have deeper understanding about prop families or these superpacks, but it seems these props appear in the pack multiple times under different family ID numbers. At least checking the CDK3 Superpak with the reader, I found the originial props are under multiple family IDs. As I can see there are different "groups" (anyway we are talking about truck props) for timed props:

1. 3 kind of truck prop appear in game 6-20 (147b) - SC4Tool can see this
2. 3 another kind of truck prop appear in game 6-20 (147c) - SC4Tool can not see this
3. all 6 kind of truck prop apper in game 6-20 (1478) - SC4Tool can see this
4. first 3 props 6-12 (1481) - SC4Tool can not see this
5. second 3 props 6-12 (1482) - SC4Tool can not see this
6. all 6 props 6-12 (147E) - SC4Tool can see this
7. all 6 props 12-22 (1484) - SC4Tool can see this
8. first 3 props 12-22 (1487) - SC4Tool can not see this
9 second 3 props 12-22 (1488) - SC4Tool can not see this

- Tyberius

You may find updates about my ongoing projects into my development thread here at SimCity 4 Devotion: Tyberius Lotting Experiments
or over there on Simtropolis into the Tyberius (Heretic Projects) Lotting and Modding Experiments.
I'm also member of the STEX Custodian and working on different restoration projects on behalf of non-anymore-active custom content creators.
Current projects: WMP Restoration and SimCity Polska Restoration.
Member of the NAM Team and RTMT Team.

Andreas

It's quite possible that SC4Tool isn't able to read the prop families properly, and probably shows "missing" props that are actually present. IIRC, SC4DataNode has a more in-depth dependency scanner that checks for such "cross-links", so it's probably worth a try. I'm not entirely sure what's up with those family IDs, but if those are timed props, the scan results in SC4Tool are probably not entirely accurate as well. Such props are a bit peculiar anyway, the dependency scanner in SC4Tool reads one ID per prop in the LotConfig property of the lot exemplar file, but the game is able to find all different props that belong to a family, and can switch between different timed props based on the properties in the prop exemplar files (where SC4Tool isn't looking).
Andreas

Tyberius06

#42
Hello everybody! :)

@Andreas: Thanks you for the answer! :)

Well, I made a cleanitol file, which contains all the elements what is supposed to be replaced by the new set.

Also I do appologies because I had to make some minor changes on some of the lots, (that means I have to reupload the whole pack and the players who wish to use my set need to redownload and replace the old version with the new verion), and during that I attached the PEG-CDK3 (without SP) Docks set to my set, with some also CDK3 bigger lot (Acme Algie, Captain Jack, Vandy's Shipping - not the SP version -, Blackie's Boat Yard, Fred Ginger Fishery and the two Garbage Disposal Shipping Yards) and with two transition pieces between the CDK3 Docks and the CDK3-SP Docks.

Before I upload the new version I would like to ask those who already tried the uploaded set, that has anybody found minor or major issues on my lots, what I sould fix before the new upload?
Please tell me, and I try to fix. :)

Pictures:

1. The CDK3 Docks with the two transition (left hand side the two 5x5 lots)



2.



3.




- Tyberius
You may find updates about my ongoing projects into my development thread here at SimCity 4 Devotion: Tyberius Lotting Experiments
or over there on Simtropolis into the Tyberius (Heretic Projects) Lotting and Modding Experiments.
I'm also member of the STEX Custodian and working on different restoration projects on behalf of non-anymore-active custom content creators.
Current projects: WMP Restoration and SimCity Polska Restoration.
Member of the NAM Team and RTMT Team.

Dublin

Love the work you've done. Played a bit with the pieces and the look and place well. Thanks for a much needed facelift.
Where ever you go, there you are.

Tyberius06

Hi, everyone,

I still playing with seaports, but I also have an other little sideproject at this moment (those who watch simtropolis forums aswell maybe already met my last comment in the Show us your current work topic).
Well I recently got my prop family range (thanks for Catty), and using jesstarr's railcar props I started to make my first families. And at this point I ran into a little problem. I made some family from the JES Vol. 1 megapack and they are working fine, however I wanted to make a family with boxcars from the VOL. 6 megapack (only straight railcar pieces) and here is my little problem. I followed the SC4D Wiki instructions about making propfamilies http://www.wiki.sc4devotion.com/index.php?title=Tutorial:Creating_Prop_Families as I made the first few families, and with those I got a DIR property line into the DAT file, but with this latest one I put together the examplars from this megapack (seven straight boxcar, those are all in this pack) changed the group and instance (as the tutorial says) and reindex-rebuild the DIR file, but I don't get DIR file/line/property (I don't know which one is the correct term). If I mix the examplars from this pack with examplars from the VOL. 1 pack I can get a DIR file but it only contains those examplars (picture no.1).
That wouldn't be a problem anyway, but int LE I have an another issue with these props (picture No 2). Originally after I put together these props I got a square in the LE because some of props have different dimensions, I mean  the creator (probably) mixed the Width and the Depth, for example first prop has the dimensions of W: 15, H: 6, D: 3, but the second prop (which is a very similiar shaped boxcar almost with the same dimensions) is W: 3, H:6, D: 15. When I used this family with these props with the originally mixed dimensions I got the results what you see on picture NO 3.
Well I changed the dimensions in the prop family in the certain examplars, and I changed the numbers according to this W: 15, H: 6, D: 3. And after this I got the result on the second picture with props with wrong orientation.
Note: these are not the exact numbers just examples.

Well can someone explain what is happenning, and how can I fix?
Why don't I get DIR file with these props.
What is wrong with the orientation and how to fix?

Thanks for any help in advance!

- Tyberius
You may find updates about my ongoing projects into my development thread here at SimCity 4 Devotion: Tyberius Lotting Experiments
or over there on Simtropolis into the Tyberius (Heretic Projects) Lotting and Modding Experiments.
I'm also member of the STEX Custodian and working on different restoration projects on behalf of non-anymore-active custom content creators.
Current projects: WMP Restoration and SimCity Polska Restoration.
Member of the NAM Team and RTMT Team.

vortext

Dir files are only created for compressed files. Notice in the second column, the Ys correspond to the items in the DIR file, this is totally normal and fine.

As for the orientation issue: it seems one of the wagons was exported at the wrong angle. Changing dimensions in the prop exemplar won't solve this. Easiest solution is to leave the offending model out of the family. Alternatively, you can clone the S3D files, rotate them correctly with the SC4ModelTweaker and include them in the final download. This is a legitimate practice since the re-orientated S3D file will still need the original FSH files to show up properly.

time flies like a bird
fruit flies like a banana

FrankU

Well, like may others also JeStarr did something that is not practical for otheres; some rail cars have their orientation parallel to the length of the car, others have their orientation perpendicular. See the direction of the prop arrow in LE/SCV4-Pim.

You can do several things:
1. make separate prop families from the parallel and the perpendicular props.
2. rotate one set, so that their arrows point into the same direction as the other props. Do this with Model Tweaker, like Vortext said. You have to make new exemplars anyway, so why not rotate them? It's not much work, I do it all the time, although the naming of the new S3D exemplars can be tricky.

mgb204

One of the biggest problems with prop families is that they tend to get remade again and again. Mostly due to the fact that these files are bundled into a download and not released as a separate entity on the exchanges.

If you are doing the JES Rail Cars, I've already got them organised into families (see attached file). You'd be free to use/distribute these as you see fit, I never got round to releasing anything with them.

I know too that Simmer took them one step further and made timed-versions of these props/families. If you check out Simmers RRW work, you should find them there. Whichever path you go, you'll save not only work, but needless duplication here.

Tyberius06

Vortext, FrankU, MGB204 thank you for the help.
In the first round, I made separate families as Frank suggested, but I see what is in the attached zip (thank you for that) and I may make further changes.
Anyway the update nearly ready to release, now I'm considering to cut a 23x20 lot into two pieces, because it reached the item limit (on one lot) and something is wrong with that anyway because the PIM-X LE can not open for editing.
But I'm not sure at this point how to split lot.

- Tyberius06
You may find updates about my ongoing projects into my development thread here at SimCity 4 Devotion: Tyberius Lotting Experiments
or over there on Simtropolis into the Tyberius (Heretic Projects) Lotting and Modding Experiments.
I'm also member of the STEX Custodian and working on different restoration projects on behalf of non-anymore-active custom content creators.
Current projects: WMP Restoration and SimCity Polska Restoration.
Member of the NAM Team and RTMT Team.

mgb204

Just for clarification, for those props that were rotated differently, I used a separate prop family named "Alt", rather than mess with rotations and such.

tigerbuilder

That's very interesting MGB. I never really thought about the duplication efforts. However, if you used something like simmers families, wouldn't that now be another dependency? Perhaps that's why everyone does their own? Maybe it would be better if the family work itself was a separate work, and a separate download.

Thanks for offering up your own work on these families. Very cool.

mgb204

Indeed if you needed to link to another file, that would add a dependency. I know some people have a hard time with dependencies, but I don't. I'll use as many as I need to get the job done.

I don't think however that anyone in their right mind, would take the time to remake exact copies of existing stuff, even to shave off an extra dependency. Most likely the duplication is simply a result of not knowing something already exists. Ideally such families would be incorporated into the Mega-Packs containing the props. But that's something that's hard to arrange when the creator is no longer around.

Tyberius06

Thank you for the file!
I haven't checked yet (RL, work etc). Well in my pack (only the straight pieces, and only from the VOL.1 and VOL.6) there are 5 families 1 for the TTX flatcars (contanair railcars), onother one is kind of mixture with flatcars, refercars, gondolas, hoppers etc, and the rest 3 are the boxcars. Anyway.

You're right. I made these families because I didn't know about the existing ones. I knew that Simmer made similiar families for his projects and they're including timed props aswell (I didn't want to mix the PEG timed props with Jestarr rail props), but due to lack of "official" release, I didn't want to use his pack even if he gives his permission.
FrankU made some very handy families for example the different angled semitrailer packs, and lots of others.
I wonder could we/someone make an "official" families pack with and without timeprops from these railcars. That could be useful for any lotter.
And such a project could be useful if/when/after Angry Mozart releases his railcar/freight rail prop pack (http://community.simtropolis.com/forums/topic/71368-modern-freight-cars-props/?page=1), bacause that pack is very promising.
And if would be a public prop family release, that could avoid these conflicts/duplicates etc...
But it's just an idea. :)
You may find updates about my ongoing projects into my development thread here at SimCity 4 Devotion: Tyberius Lotting Experiments
or over there on Simtropolis into the Tyberius (Heretic Projects) Lotting and Modding Experiments.
I'm also member of the STEX Custodian and working on different restoration projects on behalf of non-anymore-active custom content creators.
Current projects: WMP Restoration and SimCity Polska Restoration.
Member of the NAM Team and RTMT Team.

mgb204

Quote from: Tyberius06 on October 05, 2016, 04:33:26 PM
You're right. I made these families because I didn't know about the existing ones. I knew that Simmer made similiar families for his projects and they're including timed props aswell (I didn't want to mix the PEG timed props with Jestarr rail props), but due to lack of "official" release, I didn't want to use his pack even if he gives his permission.

Well, any file that is included in a download can be re-used, there is nothing wrong with this and permission is not required. What you can't do is simply bundle such files in with your work. So if you come across such files and want to use them in lotting projects, so long as you link back to the originals, it's totally OK.

Simmer2

Jes's train cars have been made into prop families ad nauseam.
I think I have covered every single one of them including some that orient to slope  :P

Once Angry Mozart releases his train pack I will create the "go to" family pack, which will include timed and non, for everyone to use.

Nick
________________________________________________________________________________

Tyberius06

#55
Hi Everyone!

Sadly I was little bit busy with RL and I started playing with the game again (and also testing the modifications on my lots). I was working on the Seaport Project update and Expansion set (which will contain now the PEG CDK3 lots aswell with a few new pieces, and some more connector piece via canal locks between SimGoober and/or SG-CAL canals and game water), and I ran into a little problem. I have some props which are conflicting with SG_CAL_Canal_Straight_PropFamily (first picture). I don't know what are those house props and where did I get them from, but every time when I'm plopping the SG-CAL canal straight 1+ lots (which uses the above mentioned prop family and/or prop ID's) I have a more then 50% chance to get those houses instead of the canal pieces. The problem is that I used these 1+ props some of my lots (and sometimes I used the propfamily itself) and as the pictures showes these houses are appearing instead of the canal pieces. Does anyone recognize them?

1. House Props instead of canal props.



2. New Lots with using SimGoober canals and new SG-CAL canal-seaport lots and some of the update-ed old lots. I made some modification with props/prop families on several lots, therefore I guess you have to replop them to avoiding conflicts if you update the set.










3. A new project what I'm working on. It's nearly ready. I made some slope walls to enchance my rail lines on slopes. They can be used on flat sourface as well as some kind of park walks.



About changes on the SeaPort lots, the most noticable is the big high light cones. Well I like them, I just forgot to use them when I started to make the whole project. But I'm not sure about how many should I use on each lots, or how far should I place them.
So any help, advice, criticism would be welcome.
Thank you!

- Tyberius

Edit: Updated broken image links. 01.05.2019
You may find updates about my ongoing projects into my development thread here at SimCity 4 Devotion: Tyberius Lotting Experiments
or over there on Simtropolis into the Tyberius (Heretic Projects) Lotting and Modding Experiments.
I'm also member of the STEX Custodian and working on different restoration projects on behalf of non-anymore-active custom content creators.
Current projects: WMP Restoration and SimCity Polska Restoration.
Member of the NAM Team and RTMT Team.

vortext

Hm at first glance I'd want to say those houses are Glenni's? On second thought not too sure about that.  &mmm However I'm somewhat positive they're called Norwegian houses, or something like that (e.g. Scandinavian). Might want to search the plugins folder on those terms.
time flies like a bird
fruit flies like a banana

belfastsocrates

I love the revised walls concept, very nice!
A unique nation fusing technological prowess and unparalleled grandeur

"Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination" - Oscar Wilde

Simmer2

Hi Tibi.
Not sure if you have made your own families but if you have not, then locate the models you need to show up, with X-PIM and make your own families, thus avoiding conflicts with pre-existing ones.

Nick
________________________________________________________________________________

Tyberius06

Quote from: vortext on November 07, 2016, 05:45:07 AM
Hm at first glance I'd want to say those houses are Glenni's? On second thought not too sure about that.  &mmm However I'm somewhat positive they're called Norwegian houses, or something like that (e.g. Scandinavian). Might want to search the plugins folder on those terms.

Yepp, thank you!
NDEX Glenni MEGA Props Vol01.dat is the guilty one or CAL put under a wrong family number his props. I've never changed these families, so I do not understand why they haven't been fixed in the last 9 years, or I do not understand why they are conflicting under my settings. ()what() ()what()
Hm... the two pictures showes that deppending on the load order which family name appears under the same number and contains the props from both pack.
Well if it's only my settings and nobody else has noticed this before, how can I fix it? Shell I make a new family for the canal props and delete the original CAL version? Obviously I rather not mess with Glenni's mega prop pack...

Thanks in advance!

- Tyberius

You may find updates about my ongoing projects into my development thread here at SimCity 4 Devotion: Tyberius Lotting Experiments
or over there on Simtropolis into the Tyberius (Heretic Projects) Lotting and Modding Experiments.
I'm also member of the STEX Custodian and working on different restoration projects on behalf of non-anymore-active custom content creators.
Current projects: WMP Restoration and SimCity Polska Restoration.
Member of the NAM Team and RTMT Team.