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Translation request for Cogeo's RTMT

Started by RippleJet, July 18, 2007, 01:15:03 PM

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RippleJet


cogeo

Just one point, names needn't be so short that they should fit in the lot description, I think in the case of Polish this would rather be impossible, unless extreme abbreviations are employed. The space in the query title is very limited, but the mini query is automatically adjustable. So the only goal should be to just make the titles in the menus look better, maybe by breaking names like Przystanek autobusowy/metro/tramwajowy (Aleja/Tramwaj) to Przystanek autobusowy/ metro/ tramwajowy (Aleja/Tramwaj) or alike.

Ennedi

#102
@cogeo,

Thanks for the tip, I see the only problem is with the main query. The title shouldn't be longer than 33 symbols including spaces. I want to make it good, so I unified tems in all queries, also these shorter ones.

The word "stop" is very long in Polish (przystanek). So I removed it and make for example "Bus/Subway" instead of "Bus/Subway Stop". It will be clear for Polish players, although it is less elegant. Descriptions of menu icons are precise.

I changed Aleja/Tramwaj (Alley/GLR) for Aleja+ tory (Alley+ rail). It will be also clear.

Now I have only 2 titles with 33 characters  ;D. I had no time to check it in game, but the file is checked and saved properly. I think everything should be OK.
New Horizons Productions
Berethor - beskhu3epnm - blade2k5 - dmscopio - dedgren - Emilin - Ennedi
jplumbley - moganite - M4346 - nichter85 - papab2000 - Shadow Assassin - Tarkus - wouanagaine

RippleJet

I have the file updated.
However, I would still want to get confirmation that the far eastern languages are in correct offset places.
I've sent PM's to Ebina and MAS71, asking them to check the Japanese texts, and I've sent a PM to dmscopio inquiring about the Chinese versions.
I hope to get replies from them by tomorrow morning, and if everything is ok, I'll post the final DAT file for you in the morning. ;)

RippleJet

I got the following report from MAS71 san:

I checked all of LOTs in the "Roadtop Mass Transit V3 Installers" with "RTMTV3_Locale.dat".

Yeh!! It's great job!!
All Japanese displyed correct!!
(on a Menu, on a LOT, all of clear!!)
Who make these Japanese data in a local.dat!?

but, I could not confirm a message on "Light-Rail LOTs" in the game.
I checked all of LTXT by ilivereader.
These are all of OK!!


### on Menus ###


### Plopped ###

ebina

Japanese texts for the Ave/GLR related Lots are ok as well.

RippleJet

#106
The final version of the Locale.DAT file is attached to this post. :thumbsup:
Dmscopio is running an English version of the game and was unable to confirm the order of the GID offsets for traditional/simplified Chinese.
However, once you've uploaded the RTMTV3.5 he will provide a copy of it to some Chinese players to see if the texts appear as intended.

cogeo

OK, Many Thanks Ripplejet!

Below are the results from a quick search I made. Tried using the Google Language Tools for translations (translated text "Monthly Cost:" and compared to the translations in the Brandenburg Gate Plugin:



This rather indicates that Simplified Chinese is at group offset 0x11 and Traditional at 0x12. The Chinese (and all other) characters look OK in DatGen, maybe dmscopio could open the Brandenburg Gate Plugin with DatGen and verify (or falsify) the above. In such a case the IDs mentioned in the "Translations" thread need to be fixed.

A few more things I have found:
- The Chinese and Japanese (and all other) texts in the Brandenburg Gate Plugin are displayed correctly in the DatGen tool.
- Instead they are not displayed correctly in iLive.
- Japanese translations (by ebina) instead are not displayed correctly in DatGen (I get questionmarks), but look OK in iLive (and ingame, as I can see from the posts above).
- The Chinese translations (by dmscopio) do not look OK in both iLive and DatGen.

The above differences are most probably due to different character sets or codepages at each translator's computer. Thus we could suggest that the preferrable tool for future translations be DatGen, rather than iLive. Originally I suggested DatGen because of the way it handles multiline text, but the way it handles unicode text appears to be another, additional reason.

As for the current RTMT translations, I think Japanese can be left as is (ebina, please don't change it, there's no reason to change this, as it works well ingame; and thanks again). Chinese should be tested ingame, if it hasn't already. Also traditional and simplified chinese should be flipped if dmscopio has used the IDs suggested in the "Translations" thread (0x11 for traditional, 0x12 for simplified) if these are wrong.

It would also be nice to add the registry values for HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Maxis\SimCity 4\1.0\Language setting for each language, in the "Translations" thread. These are generally not the same as the language offset IDs, eg US English is 0x01 but UK English is 0x14 and Polish 0x14. This would make testing easier. For example we could see how the chinese translations look ingame.

RippleJet

#108
Thank you Cogeo!

Enclosed is a Locale.DAT file where the Chinese languages have been flipped:

0A554AF1 = Simplified Chinese
0A554AF2 = Traditional Chinese

ebina

#109
Quote from: cogeo
ebina, please don't change it,
OK.

Quote
- Japanese translations (by ebina) instead are not displayed correctly in DatGen (I get questionmarks), but look OK in iLive (and ingame, as I can see from the posts above).
I was thinking that it is strange since I started the translation. Sometimes Japanese texts are readable in the DatGen but unreadable in the Reader. If I could know which text editor other Japanese creators are using, I might be able to find the difference. By the way, I'm using the EmEditor, it can choose all of options that are required in the Ragutaro's tutorial.

RippleJet

Quote from: ebina on August 14, 2007, 06:03:32 AM
By the way, I'm using the EmEditor, it can choose all of options that are required in the Ragutaro's tutorial.

Ragutaro's tutorial, translated into English (you need to copy the url into the address field):

http://64.233.179.104/translate_c?hl=EN&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&langpair=ja%7Cen&u=http://hide-inoki.com/sc4/howto/change_name_in_jp.htm&prev=/language_tools

Andreas

I haven't tried this yet, but since SC4Tool's Exemplar Editor is also capable to deal with LTEXT files, you might want to give that one a try. simrolle and I spent a lot of time on quite a few beta versions to get everything (line feed/carriage return etc.) right, so it works probably better than the Reader and DatGen. I cannot guarantee for this, though.
Andreas

RippleJet

Quote from: Andreas on August 14, 2007, 08:35:26 AM
I haven't tried this yet, but since SC4Tool's Exemplar Editor is also capable to deal with LTEXT files, you might want to give that one a try. simrolle and I spent a lot of time on quite a few beta versions to get everything (line feed/carriage return etc.) right, so it works probably better than the Reader and DatGen. I cannot guarantee for this, though.

Andreas, I tried to open one of the dat files earlier in SC4Tool, but since there is no exemplar file included,
SC4Tool crashed when trying to opening the file, with the exception code
System.ArgumentOutOfRangeException: Index out of range

Ennedi

Hello guys,

I just checked the final version of RTMTV3_Locale. Everything is OK... almost  :-[
I said earlier:

QuoteThe title shouldn't be longer than 33 symbols including spaces.
And it was a mistake. I calculated it correctly, but I didn't think that various characters have various width. "i" is narrow and "w" is much wider. So the safe amount of characters to show correctly in queries is about 29 (in Polish language, in this case - in other cases we can have many wide characters and the maximum amount of them can be for example 25).

So I have 2 bad titles in queries - as you see, in both cases the mini query is OK, but the title is a bit too long in the full query. Of course descriptions in menu are OK.









...And one bad description in the menu (it is easy to improve and it happened because I unified titles in all LTEXT files. I need to put a space in this title)



But these 3 exceptions are not a big problem - menu and mini queries are OK, so everything is clear. I can improve it (however shortening these titles will be difficult  :(), but if you want to finish your work quickly, it isn't necessary.

But I see another problem: The maximum capacity value is different in menu and in the query - see below:





And we have such situation in every case (for every bus/subway/GLR stop).
I think these values were calculated in different way for the menu and for the query, but in my opinion it would be good to improve it - now I don't know how is the true capacity.


New Horizons Productions
Berethor - beskhu3epnm - blade2k5 - dmscopio - dedgren - Emilin - Ennedi
jplumbley - moganite - M4346 - nichter85 - papab2000 - Shadow Assassin - Tarkus - wouanagaine

RippleJet

Yes, I think Cogeo purposely has given different values for the Transit Switch Traffic Capacity and the Catalog Capacity.

Since the stations are roadtop, the Transit Switch Traffic Capacity has to include the traffic passing through the station.
Thus the capacity of the underlying network itself has to be included in that figure, which is the true capacity used in the game, and shown in the query.

The Catalog Capacity is only shown in the item description, and in these cases it shows the capacity of the station, without through traffic. ;)

Ennedi

#115
@RippleJet, I understand it very good, but the average player doesn't need to know about it. Maybe it is possible to add a few words to the menu description (for example: "without through traffic" or something similar?  ;)

Edit: If not, it will be necessary to explain it in the readme
New Horizons Productions
Berethor - beskhu3epnm - blade2k5 - dmscopio - dedgren - Emilin - Ennedi
jplumbley - moganite - M4346 - nichter85 - papab2000 - Shadow Assassin - Tarkus - wouanagaine

RippleJet

Quote from: Ennedi on August 14, 2007, 01:57:14 PM
Maybe it is possible to add a few words to the menu description (for example: "without through traffic" or something similar?  ;)

Which would have to be translated into 15 languages as well... ::)

Ennedi

New Horizons Productions
Berethor - beskhu3epnm - blade2k5 - dmscopio - dedgren - Emilin - Ennedi
jplumbley - moganite - M4346 - nichter85 - papab2000 - Shadow Assassin - Tarkus - wouanagaine

Andreas

Quote from: RippleJet on August 14, 2007, 11:17:46 AM
Andreas, I tried to open one of the dat files earlier in SC4Tool, but since there is no exemplar file included,
SC4Tool crashed when trying to opening the file, with the exception code
System.ArgumentOutOfRangeException: Index out of range

Ah well, maybe it works only if an exemplar file is present indeed - as I said, I haven't tried to edit anything else but lot files yet.
Andreas

cogeo

#119
@RippleJet: Thanks for compiling the final file!  :thumbsup:

@Ennedi: Ripplejet is right, the capacities shown in the menus and the query differ, these are roadtop stations and the through traffic adds up to the usage, so the toatal capacity must be higher than the "net" capacity, by the anticipated through traffic. This is explained in detail in the readme you already have.

I have deleted the attachments, these contained an evaluation version. For those who have downloaded them, please delete them (revert to the last released version). Files of the release version (3.50) may feature small differences, so please delete those (they were for evalutation/test purposes anyway). As with all past RTMT versions, lots plopped using an older version will still be compatible to the new versions, so you won't need to bulldoze your existing stations.

I'm going to upload the final update tomorrow. I had posted a question in the RTMT thread on ST, asking about the placement of the props. I got one negative comment for the current arrangement, but as the positive comments were more, I'm gonna keep it.