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Functional Custom Airport, Support File and CTD's

Started by RippleJet, January 15, 2008, 12:01:41 PM

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RippleJet

Functional Custom Airports and CTD's

Way back a number of functional airports were created, but the development of them stopped long ago.
The reason for that was the numerous CTD (Crash To Desktop) reports they lead to.

Who remembers SimGoober's Heliport, with the avenue and railroad going through the lot?


Who remembers Ripptide's Island Air Seaplane Base?


And who remembers Moganite's Helipads?


Common for all these was that Swamper77's Airport Support File was listed as a dependency.

However, these airports have been the reason for numerous reports about CTD's.
Nobody ever found an answer and a cure to those crashes, so eventually they were all locked.
With the recent cleanup on STEX they have now also been erased.






Property Port Type Exemplar IDs

This property in the Airports Developer Exemplar lists all functional airports with the Instance ID's of their developer exemplars.
This is the exemplar that is included in Swamper77's Support File, and it is also the reason for all CTD's experienced with custom airports.

Below is a report from my testing for finding the cause to the CTD's.




For the first test I used Swamper77's Support File unchanged, listing 16 airports;
all SWAP Airports, Ripptide's Seaplane Base, SimGoober's Heliport and Moganite's Helipad:


0x0A271653   Maxis Landing Strip(3 growth stages)
0x0A271647Maxis Municipal Airport(3 growth stages)
0x2A27163FMaxis International Airport(3 growth stages)
0x6CF38134Joerg's Airport Tram Center(Included in SWAP)
0x2CC060A3Joerg's Terminal - Long Expandable  (Included in SWAP)
0x2C18D41CJoerg's Terminal - Small Horseshoe(Included in SWAP)
0x0C19DAB7Joerg's Terminal - Long(Included in SWAP)
0xAC1AEFA7Joerg's Terminal - Wing(Included in SWAP)
0x0C1C5251Joerg's Terminal - Arm(Included in SWAP)
0xCC23141CJoerg's Terminal - Curved Branch(Included in SWAP)
0x0C24380FJoerg's Terminal - Fork(Included in SWAP)
0x90476A08SWAP - Medium Terminal(Included in SWAP)
0x7047695ESWAP - Small Terminal(Included in SWAP)
0xB0458B5ERipptide's Island Air
0x30CBAB18SimGoober's Heliport
0x0A271652Moganite's Helipad

I built two of Moganite's helipads (upgraded to stage 4 and 2), saved the city and exited
(more about the upgrades here).
I restarted the game, reopened the city, clicked on one of the helipads and got a CTD. &hlp




For the second test I first created an Airports Developer Exemplar listing only four airports:


0x0A271653   Maxis Landing Strip
0x0A271647Maxis Municipal Airport
0x2A27163FMaxis International Airport
0x0A271652Moganite's Helipad

I played the same city from scratch (had it saved since before the previous test).
I built the same two helipads and let them once again upgrade to stage 4 and 2.
Saved the city, exited, restarted the game and reopened the city.
I succesfully queried both helipads without getting any CTD's. ;D

Obviously you must have ALL airports that are listed in the Airports Developer Exemplar available in your plugins folder.
Not having these will lead to a CTD when clicking on an earlier built custom airport further down the list.
This is also the reason for certain reports saying that they must have SWAP installed for Ripptide's Seaplane Base to function.




For the third test I continued from the city saved in the test above.
I added SimGoober's Heliport to the end of the list in the Airports Developer Exemplar:


0x0A271653   Maxis Landing Strip
0x0A271647Maxis Municipal Airport
0x2A27163FMaxis International Airport
0x0A271652Moganite's Helipad
0x30CBAB18SimGoober's Heliport



Restarting the game, reloading the city and clicking on the helipads seems to work alright:






For the fourth and final test I once again continued from the city saved in the test above.
I added SimGoober's Heliport to the list in the Airports Developer Exemplar, but before Moganite's Helipad:


0x0A271653   Maxis Landing Strip
0x0A271647Maxis Municipal Airport
0x2A27163FMaxis International Airport
0x30CBAB18SimGoober's Heliport
0x0A271652Moganite's Helipad



Restarting the game, reloading the city and clicking on the helipads didn't cause a CTD, but: :o








The Revival of Functional Custom Airports

The testing above has shown that we cannot upload functional airports independently of each other and the support file separately.
The support file should be included in the package containing all airports. I would even prefer to have it included in the same dat file.
The loading order did not show any significance. Everything worked the same whether the support file was loaded first or last.

It is also obvious that you can add airports only to the end of the list.
You cannot however remove any airports from the list in a city where you have built one of them.

In other words, whenever the package of airports is updated, new airports would be added to the end of the list.
However, once a player has updated the package, he/she must never revert to the older version.

Keeping the airport support file together with the airport package, ensures that we know the order to add airports to the list.

We're now thinking of dividing the functional airports into maybe 4 packages, e.g:
   1. Only SWAP (those terminals by Joerg and Xiziz that are included in SWAP)
   2. Only BSC (RippTide's Island Air, SimGoober's Heliport, Moganite's Helipad, Colyn's Airport and Barby's Shuttle Station)
   3. Only AC Prefabs (existing and new ones)
   4. Only AC Modulars (existing and new ones)

Any combination of these would have to be installed in "increasing numbers", giving the following possibilities:

Two airport packages:
   12. SWAP + BSC
   13. SWAP + Prefabs
   14. SWAP + Modulars
   23. BSC + Prefabs
   24. BSC + Modulars
   34. Prefabs + Modulars

Three airport packages:
   123. SWAP + BSC + Prefabs
   124. SWAP + BSC + Modulars
   134. SWAP + Prefabs + Modulars
   234. BSC + Prefabs + Modulars

Four airport packages:
   1234. SWAP + BSC + Prefabs + Modulars

By keeping the initial order the same as in Swamper77's Support File, we can let those who already have SWAP or SWAP + BSC installed to continue from that installation.
In other words, they would not have to bulldoze each existing airport lot in all their cities...




Whenever adding a new package, the number of that package would have to be higher than all previously installed packages.
In other words, if a player has installed 1. SWAP and 3. Prefabs, he/she can later install 4. Modulars, but not 2. BSC.
If he wants to install a package with a lower number, he would have to bulldoze each and every airport lot in all cities first.

The biggest problem is that the number of packages will have to be kept as low as possible... see the list below:

Package Nº 1 (SWAP) requires only one (20) Support File:
   1. Only SWAP

Package Nº 2 (BSC) requires two (21) Support Files:
   2. Only BSC
   12. SWAP + BSC

Package Nº 3 (Prefabs) requires four (22) Support Files:
   3. Only AC Prefabs
   13. SWAP + Prefabs
   23. BSC + Prefabs
   123. SWAP + BSC + Prefabs

Package Nº 4 (Modulars) requires eight (23) Support Files:
   4. Only AC Modulars
   14. SWAP + Modulars
   24. BSC + Modulars
   34. Prefabs + Modulars
   124. SWAP + BSC + Modulars
   134. SWAP + Prefabs + Modulars
   234. BSC + Prefabs + Modulars
   1234. SWAP + BSC + Prefabs + Modulars

Package Nº 5 would require sixteen (24) Support Files ::)




All airports in these packages will be thoroughly remodded to have property values consistent with the "X" Tool.

We are now aiming at releasing packages 1, 2 and 12 first.
Remodding, relotting and testing will take some time though, so don't expect them before Easter! $%Grinno$%

figui

first forums inhabitant from Uruguay..   first forums citizen from Uruguay..  first forums councilman from Uruguay..   first forums mayor from Uruguay..  first forums governor from Uruguay..
...i'm still the only one from Uruguay!

________

mindaugas

Where's the Fries? (next time we'll wash your mouth out with soap)! Wow, thats fantastic!  :P

Diggis

Great work RT.... Look forward to the release of these.

BigSlark

Very impressive work, Tage. And I thought you were on vacation, too... :D

Cheers,
Kevin

RippleJet

Quote from: Diggis on January 28, 2008, 03:29:58 AM
Great work RT.... Look forward to the release of these.

RT = RippleTage? ::)


Quote from: BigSlark on January 28, 2008, 09:26:26 AM
Very impressive work, Tage. And I thought you were on vacation, too... :D

Actually this was posted before I left for Brazil, but only figui noticed it back then... $%Grinno$%
Thanks, figui! :)

Yoman

No no, RT don't mean RippleTage, it means RippleTotallyawsomework  :thumbsup:

mindaugas

This isn't as pretty but I have it running in a city and it is functional without CTD. I don't understand ... what's the story behind it?

http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=14024 SWAP SimWings Airport Pack V22

xxdita

Functional Airports that actually work! Very nice. Can't wait to see some on the LEX!

Diggis

Sorry Tage, I still have you and Ripptide mixed up in my head.  &ops

Still good work

RippleJet

Quote from: mindaugas on January 28, 2008, 11:35:30 PM
This isn't as pretty but I have it running in a city and it is functional without CTD. I don't understand ... what's the story behind it?

http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=14024 SWAP SimWings Airport Pack V22

Yes, the airports included in SWAP are all functional.
Included with SWAP 2.3 is swamper77's support file (the main airport developer file), which makes the following airports functional (also listed in my first post above):


0x0A271653   Maxis Landing Strip(3 growth stages)
0x0A271647Maxis Municipal Airport(3 growth stages)
0x2A27163FMaxis International Airport(3 growth stages)
0x6CF38134Joerg's Airport Tram Center(Included in SWAP)
0x2CC060A3Joerg's Terminal - Long Expandable  (Included in SWAP)
0x2C18D41CJoerg's Terminal - Small Horseshoe(Included in SWAP)
0x0C19DAB7Joerg's Terminal - Long(Included in SWAP)
0xAC1AEFA7Joerg's Terminal - Wing(Included in SWAP)
0x0C1C5251Joerg's Terminal - Arm(Included in SWAP)
0xCC23141CJoerg's Terminal - Curved Branch(Included in SWAP)
0x0C24380FJoerg's Terminal - Fork(Included in SWAP)
0x90476A08SWAP - Medium Terminal(Included in SWAP)
0x7047695ESWAP - Small Terminal(Included in SWAP)
0xB0458B5ERipptide's Island Air
0x30CBAB18SimGoober's Heliport
0x0A271652Moganite's Helipad

If you want to build any of those airports included in that list, you MUST have every single airport that comes listed before the airport you want to build, installed in your plugins folder. Otherwise you will, without exception, experience a CTD next time you open your city and query your airport.

Your city would after this forever be unplayable. Even bulldozing the airport won't correct that.

Luckily enough the airports in swamper77's list are in such an order that all 10 airports that are included in SWAP are listed right after Maxis' three airports.
Thus, since all those airports are included in one package, you can use any of them without fear of getting a CTD.

The problems arose when trying to build any of those three airports in the end of that list; Ripptide's Island Air, SimGoober's Heliport or Moganite's Helipad.

E.g. in order to successfully build Moganite's helipad you needed to have SWAP installed, as well as Ripptide's and SimGoober's airports.
Since this wasn't fully understood earlier, all those three airports have been locked to avoid further confusion.

The airports included in SWAP will be updated to get capacities and other properties in line with Maxis' own airports.
Today, all airports in SWAP have capacities that are far too high.


There is also one other thing that we will do to most existing and to all future airports....

...but I will keep you waiting for that announcement for a while more... ::)

mindaugas

Ah, that makes more sense. I actually stumbled on SWAP after doing some more searching. The cap is really high, and I wouldn't mind the more realistic tarmac and runways from RMIP. But for a functional and mostly custom AP, it is not a bad option. It sure beats the ones from Maxis. thanks for the great info!

hconline

Yay, when will you create the package for, say RMIP, ACB-VLT, and possibly Dedgren's Diagonal RMIP project parts.  &apls
Life is like a butterfly, ephemeral, yet beautiful beyond belief. -Me

Diggis

Can you not use the RMIP runways with the SWAP terminals?

RippleJet

Quote from: hconline on January 30, 2008, 05:07:53 PM
Yay, when will you create the package for, say RMIP, ACB-VLT, and possibly Dedgren's Diagonal RMIP project parts.  &apls

Voltaire's RMIP can still be used in conjunction with current and future functional airports. :thumbsup:
And Dedgren's wide diagonal RMIP project may well be released before any new functional airports. ::)


Quote from: Diggis on January 31, 2008, 07:15:18 AM
Can you not use the RMIP runways with the SWAP terminals?

Yes, of course.
And in the future all modular terminals by the AC Team will also be functional.

hconline

Yay, good job AC team. Functional airports would be awesome. Can't wait till they come out.
Life is like a butterfly, ephemeral, yet beautiful beyond belief. -Me

Filasimo

hey Tage perhaps me and david should say the release is sooner than you think  ::)  hmmm wonder where we heard that line from  :D
Plaza Mall Project
http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2171.0
Coming Soon to the LEX!

NAM Team
What can NAM do for you?
//

videosean

Having recently discovered all the amazing creations of Voltaire and ace_bovenopdeberg I am simply in awe.  Amazing, brilliant, beautiful work!  They aren't functional though and that KILLS me!  Before I found this subforum here I'd already been thinking about what I would do with the ACB-VLT TnJ2 buildings to make a functional airport.  There are 5 different large curved roof buildings/lots (2x3 tiles from series 1 part 2) that I would make to have capacities (somewhere in the 2000 to 5000 range I think) like a Maxis airport.  There are lots with capacity like this in the SWAP airport pack but they don't look nearly as nice as Ace's creations.  That's not a crack on anyone who worked on the SWAP buildings... they are very nice by themselves... I just prefer Ace's work and don't want to use the SWAP set.

The worst part of all this is that I've really never made anything for sc4 at all.  I'm the biggest noob when it comes to the tools used to make stuff for the game.  I've made fairly simple maps for unreal tournament 99 but what I've done  there is 100% graphic work using Photoshop and the unreal editor (3D app) and no real coding of any kind.  I think I see how it can be done just by looking at the SWAP lots and replicating the variables/exemplars and whatnot in those but I just don't have the time to learn all the tools lately.  So I'll probably just have to wait and see what you guys come up with like everyone else.  I ran into project-defeating trouble simply trying to make a construction lot from one of Ace's lot's to use for an MML for his TnJ packs lol.  I may try that again when I get a chance though... I couldn't use one of his lots and then "save as" in the LE but after some reading maybe it's because they are airport zone type lots... and perhaps I can change that in the LE the next time I try it.

Another (very minor) annoyance I have with the ACB-VLT things are the runways.  I understand that these were made by airport geeks for airport geeks and I respect that.  I'm not an airport geek though and I want a simple runway pack and I'm going through what I have from them trying to remove any pieces I don't think I'll ever use, starting with all the diagonals and lights and signs.  SWAP has 2 or 3 pre-fab, one piece runways but they don't quite fit in with Voltaire's work... I think that's all that's missing from the runway part of the ACB and VLT packs... 2 or 3 simple, pre-fab runways for people who aren't looking to re-create a real world airport down to every detail.

RippleJet

Quote from: videosean on March 28, 2008, 07:09:40 AM
I couldn't use one of his lots and then "save as" in the LE but after some reading maybe it's because they are airport zone type lots... and perhaps I can change that in the LE the next time I try it.

You would have to remove the occupant group that identifies it as an airport. But that needs to be done in Reader.
After that you can "save as" in LE. And after that you would need to add the occupant group for airports in Reader once again.

However, that still won't make your lots functional as airports.
There would still be quite some modding needed, that can only be done in Reader.


Quote from: videosean on March 28, 2008, 07:09:40 AM
Another (very minor) annoyance I have with the ACB-VLT things are the runways.  I understand that these were made by airport geeks for airport geeks and I respect that.  I'm not an airport geek though and I want a simple runway pack and I'm going through what I have from them trying to remove any pieces I don't think I'll ever use, starting with all the diagonals and lights and signs.  SWAP has 2 or 3 pre-fab, one piece runways but they don't quite fit in with Voltaire's work... I think that's all that's missing from the runway part of the ACB and VLT packs... 2 or 3 simple, pre-fab runways for people who aren't looking to re-create a real world airport down to every detail.

There is something in the pipeline for you, videosean! ::)

videosean

#19
Quote from: RippleJet on March 28, 2008, 09:24:12 AM
You would have to remove the occupant group that identifies it as an airport. But that needs to be done in Reader.
After that you can "save as" in LE. And after that you would need to add the occupant group for airports in Reader once again.

However, that still won't make your lots functional as airports.
There would still be quite some modding needed, that can only be done in Reader.
I think you misunderstood me a little - I just want to make a construction lot for an MML first... that's where/why I was having a problem with 'save as' with an 'airport lot' in the editor.  I ended up using the standard maxis park tennis court lot for the base of this lot though.

I don't think I'm going to try and make functional airport lots since you guys are working on it and have experience and expertise over me :)
However... somehow I accidentally made an airport lot with capacity of 0 out of my MML construction lot:

I think this is what made it an airport with capacity... but the MML lot I used as reference has same entry/values but not airport with capacity:
OccupantGroups  =  Building: Landmark,Building: Airport,Building: Transportation... somehow I messed up and will have to figure out my mistake but it surprised me :)

I have my functional MML lot for "ACB-VLT Terminals & Jets Series 1 -- Part 2" thanks to some LUA script debugging help from RebaLynnTS over at simpeg.  I still need to get the airport capacity thing off of my construction/MML lot but if Ace or Voltaire sees this and want this MML just let me know.  I'm undecided on actually releasing this on stex... I don't think I have a real desire to unless you folks think there would be a great need filled by it.  Maybe I could track down JZO and run it past him - he made the MMLs for Voltaire's runways and stuff.