SC4 Devotion Forum Archives

Hi SC4dvotees,
I used to be pretty active at ST a few years ago. I was starting to get halfway decent at modeling and a bit of texturing. Then RL kicked in and I had less time. Couple that with a major computer crash (lost my whole hard drive) and what you get is a guy that doesn't feel like messing with it anymore.
Well, now I have some time (and a new computer) so I dusted off my old sc4 disc and downloaded the BAT. I was pleased to see that my inactivity hadn't gotten me kicked off the NDEX team so I figured I might as well try to earn the tag. So without further adieu....
I really like the grungy look of Glenni's and Gascooker's BATs. I'm pretty good with Photoshop so if I can figure out UVW maps and sub-object modeling and texturing I might be able to do some work that is close to par with those guys. Maybe not. Guess we'll see.
Rob

Quote from: tragicomicus1 on October 27, 2008, 02:56:37 PM
Hey,
I think I will start small with some midwestern style w2w bats that you might see on main street in many small towns in America. Screenshots will be forthcoming.

I'll be looking forward to them, and welcome to Devotion, T! :thumbsup:

Well,
As promised here is a screenshot of the latest thing I started working on. It's your typical low-rise office building that you might find in the midwest. It's pretty bland I know. I need to dirty up the textures and add some detail (there isn't even a back wall yet). I have found that bouncing between 3ds max and gmax works for me as far as doing things I can't in the BAT. I tried the BAT4MAx thing but I guess I am not smart enough to figure it out.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi409.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp178%2Frb_brr%2Foffice_w2w.jpg&hash=c11942aedacf5c849841762bc6d7ef70959af842)

Welcome back. I like your current direction in buildings. We always need more Main Street W2W.   :satisfied:

I think I remember you...aren't you from Indiana? If I remember right...Kokomo? Seems I recall such a conversation on ST. I am originally from Kokomo myself. Are the w2w's going to based on downtown?

Ha, Good memory Yoder!!! Yeah, I am from K-town. And no, not specifically based on Kokomo.At least not any RL buildings. Although the old Armstrong London Building would be pretty easy to BAT. Just the architectural style. It suits my limited BATting skills  :P. I am curious to see the response to the idea. So far it has been positive.

Here is an updated pic of my latest creation. A little realism with an old coke ad fading with the years....

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi409.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp178%2Frb_brr%2Foffice2.jpg&hash=b4ac4b6eca659e48ee6528b08c4bf0acd871b232)

Not a bad start. It looks to me like your building might be a tad large over all.

wow another great returns!!! sweet that building is looking good there with the ad fadding away....

Think so? It should fit on a 2x3 lot. Here is a ss from the perspective viewport.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi409.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp178%2Frb_brr%2Fw2w3.jpg&hash=d89f91c40e6eaccf1607461707e7f921f9f7c700)

I dunno... Maybe. I was never very good at the whole scale thing. Are there any general rules of thumb? I inserted some people and they are approx 3 meters tall.

I think so T I have some of your stuff!!! about the people I dunno I heard something about the scale around here was TBD about 2.5 or something like that I dont know for sure but maybe Tage or Lee could better let you know for sure on that!! Otherwise I like the progress...

~~~Pat

HA!!!! You see in my sim world people are 9 and a half feet tall. I have to make the buildings HUGE so they can fit inside. But, seriously I scaled it down. It looks more realistic now but tiny....

Quote from: tragicomicus1 on October 31, 2008, 07:52:36 PM
It looks more realistic now but tiny....

Plop some of spa's buildings next to it in the game to get an idea of the accuracy of your scale.
Not only the scale of the whole building, but especially the vertical scale.

In RL modern houses and offices have a ceiling height of around 2.5 m (8'3").
Add half a metre of trusswork to that and you get a floor spacing of 3 m (10').
Old §§§ buildings usually are taller, and the first floor in a commercial building is always taller than the upper ones.

For buildings in the game not to look squashed, the vertical scale needs to be stretched some 130...150%
In other words, a 3 m floor spacing would mean some 4 to 4.5 m in the game.
That would fit the 10 ft tall in-game people, who are also stretched vertically.

Your building does look like it would fit well on a 1×2 lot though.
If the width is now 16 m, you might want to stretch the building vertically to get a floor spacing of at least 4 m.

Finally, I like the brick texture on the side, but I think it's too fine. How does it look in the game?

Here is an ingame shot after a test render. Good suggestions about the scale. I think however this BAT might end up as a "warm up" kind of thing. I am not happy with it really. But it has served as a nice refresher to GMAX. Might make part of a w2w prop pack. I plopped it next to some of JbSimio's "Smalltown USA" bats and it matches up pretty well scale wise.

Here's a sneak peek at something I've been tinkering with.

Quote from: tragicomicus1 on November 05, 2008, 10:42:43 PM
I think however this BAT might end up as a "warm up" kind of thing. I am not happy with it really. But it has served as a nice refresher to GMAX.

Good purpose! :thumbsup:

Quote from: tragicomicus1 on November 06, 2008, 10:57:40 AM
Here's a sneak peek at something I've been tinkering with.

Raising my head to take a look at the ground floor... Naw, the image wasn't 3D... $%Grinno$%

Ha, yeah I was short on time earlier and didn't have time to "mosaic" the pic. I'll update it in a bit. I need to figure out the BAT4MAX stuff so I can just use that. I read the tutorial but.... Is there a newer version of that somewhere. The only one I found was on stex.

Simfox has done some minor tweaks to it and his is available on STEX...Chris Adams has also done some major enhancements, but has yet to release them, and unfortunately has gone MIA.

Yeah, I found it. Unfortunately I am using max 2009 and there are apparently still some compatability issues. I am sure I could find someone to render for me if I model in 3ds max....

Until they get those things worked out I will just use gmax. I can still use 3dsmax for things like lattice and poly editing though and just import into gmax.

Here are a couple of pics of the new Skyscraper I have been working on.....

I'm not sure but I think the compatibility issues are related to Mental Ray and FG....Scanline shouldn't have any issues, as long as you don't use photometric lighting and exposure control.  Certainly worth a try  :thumbsup:

Well I scrapped that first BAT I posted. I was just trying to get my feet wet again so to speak. In the vein of the w2w idea though here's something I've been working on today. A seedy looking rat infested hotel.



When I am as good at texturing as Glenni and GC this sort of thing will look much better.

With better textures....


(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi409.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp178%2Frb_brr%2Fseedy_hotel_bettertex.jpg&hash=4459f5f557657483fb6a612e6f6d849532f52264)


(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi409.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp178%2Frb_brr%2Fseedy_hotel_bettertexw.jpg&hash=ad4eef4e402bfdf562550dea4b63730911c6c159)

This is very good. :)  It looks like something I would want to use in an inner city R-§ or C-§ area.  It does look a little run-down, but I assume that's what you were aiming for, right?

:thumbsup:

Nice ghettotel  :thumbsup:

looking very ghetto!!!  :thumbsup:

QuoteIt does look a little run-down, but I assume that's what you were aiming for, right?

Indeed.....

I need to do a bit more texture work and I think I can wrap this one up. The roof access is all whacky. And I don't really like the font on the neon sign. Other than that I think it is pretty ghetto fabulous. This type of building is good for honing my texturing chops...

I'll update in a bit.....

Alrighty,
Here it is, rooms for rent by the hour. I think this would look good next to some of Goober's adult themed shops eh?


Time to render and test. That is, unless anyone has further suggestions (besides the floating roof junk that I just noticed)

Well,
I suppose NDEX is still sort of a team. I will continue to post my projects here until I hear otherwise. Here is a Lakeside Resort I have been working on in 3dsMax. Starting to figure out bump maps and other texture trick as well as sub-object modeling and texturing. Check it out

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi409.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp178%2Frb_brr%2FLakesideResort.jpg&hash=6605fa80d0fd57c85bfb4cb01225b56ed02d5332)


Later
Rob

Quote from: tragicomicus1 on December 01, 2008, 08:39:40 PM
Well,
I suppose NDEX is still sort of a team. I will continue to post my projects here until I hear otherwise.

That's the spirit, Rob! :thumbsup:

Quote from: tragicomicus1 on November 24, 2008, 10:22:56 PM
Alrighty,
Here it is, rooms for rent by the hour. I think this would look good next to some of Goober's adult themed shops eh?

I'd like to see some action in those lit-up windows in that case then... ehm... maybe not... $%Grinno$%
The nightlighting could probably be improved though. Seems like the windows are all blinded? ::)

Hey,
It's already being lotted and modded. I was ready to move on. The lights on the side didn't show as well as the ones in front. I kind of intended it that way. Theoretically it will be a w2w buiilding so it will be between two others and you won't see them anyway  &Thk/(
What? No comment on the new one?

Later
-Rob

Quote from: tragicomicus1 on December 02, 2008, 07:55:21 AM
What? No comment on the new one?

Sorry, Rob. Your picture showed up as a red cross for me at work today.
Now I can clearly see the Lakeside Resort!  :thumbsup:  It's :o

Too bad we won't be able to see the texture that well in the game.
Looking very good in 3dsMax though. :)

great work is going on here :thumbsup:
i love that opened door with the light going outside from your hotel.
also exelent brick on that lake house i first wanted to ask if you used bump mapping but than i first red your text ;). i think i will try that out too although i dont think you will see that in game

-paul

Quotealso exelent brick on that lake house i first wanted to ask if you used bump mapping but than i first red your text Wink. i think i will try that out too although i dont think you will see that in game

Paul-No sadly you won't be able to see it in game. But it is sure cool to look at eh?

Quotei love that opened door with the light going outside from your hotel.

Kind of creepy I think. Like "What could be going on behind that door?"

Tage-I was just giving you a hard time. I remember when they were about to release sc4 I thought it was going to be full 3d like an fps. I was a little disappointed when I realized it was constrained like it is. Oh well, Cities XL looks like it will be what I was hoping for from sc4 (maybe.... &Thk/( )

Quote from: tragicomicus1 on December 02, 2008, 11:22:26 AM
Oh well, Cities XL looks like it will be what I was hoping for from sc4 (maybe.... &Thk/( )

Don't bank on it, unless you know how to texture bake, create normal maps and are willing to hand over any models gratis to Monte Cristo.....

Quote from: callagrafx on December 02, 2008, 01:30:25 PM
Don't bank on it, unless you know how to texture bake, create normal maps and are willing to hand over any models gratis to Monte Cristo.....

And since I don't bat make models, I will never have anything to hand over to Monte Cristo... $%Grinno$%
I will keep modding SC4 though, as long as this site is still running and my computer is still compatible with SC4. ::)

for me the point is just that there will be no way to make bats with the actual amount of details in citiesXL. and i think computer will have to be much much faster to render simcity4 buildings in realtime. and this will take some time ;)
i only wished there would be a better quality of the fsh files

Quote from: callagrafx on December 02, 2008, 01:30:25 PM
Don't bank on it, unless you know how to texture bake, create normal maps and are willing to hand over any models gratis to Monte Cristo.....

Lee,
I was referring to the actual gameplay not the custom content creation. I realize that we won't have near as many capabilities in XL (most of us probably won't even have a computer that can run it  :'( ) But I am having so much fun with Max that I want to learn about texture baking and normal maps and anything else I can find :) If I could just figure out how to export from Max I'd be doing well.!.!
-Rob

Quote from: tragicomicus1 on December 02, 2008, 05:24:48 PM
If I could just figure out how to export from Max I'd be doing well.!.!

File > Export   :D :D :D

sorry, couldn't resist

did you mean export to sc4model?

Lee-I know how to export as a 3ds. I guess I should have been more specific. I can't figure out how to do nitelites and export as a sc4model file. I've read SImFox's tutorial but something is awry in my BAT4MAX installation. I can preview. Is there a way to keep my textures if I just go export as a 3ds and import into gmax? I understand that there will be no bump maps in gmax and you won't see them in game anyway but I hate the fact that when I import something into gmax the textures are gone  >:( 
Any help is appreciated
-Rob

The .3ds format only supports 8 character filenames (a throwback to the old DOS days).....try renaming texture files with 8 characters (plus extension) and save them in a specific location (again, 8 characters with no spaces, such as c:\textures).  Use these textures and then export.  Hopefully GMAX should retain the textures.

8 MINIMUM OR 8 TOTAL?

8 MAXIMUM ( excluding the extension which should be 3 MAX )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8.3_filename

yep, something like brick.jpg or redbrick.jpg

So not to sound like a total noob but would it be easier to create sub-folders in your textures folder to keep maps for specific scenes i.e. Sceneassets/Images/Lakehouse  ? makes sense to me I think.
-Rob

YEs, but sceneassets is too long :)

Quote from: tragicomicus1 on December 05, 2008, 12:05:49 AM
So not to sound like a total noob but would it be easier to create sub-folders in your textures folder to keep maps for specific scenes i.e. Sceneassets/Images/Lakehouse  ? makes sense to me I think.
-Rob

i think if it makes sense or not is only your decision. depends on what is easier to handle for you.
i for my self have also subfolder in the scenes. i can find quicker the texture i want to change or to add in the scene if i dont have to put it out of a long list.

another thing:
what exactly is your problem with bat4max? is it just expoting the nightscene or also the day render?
maybe someone can help you with that what in my opinion would be a better solution than exporting it to gmax.

paul

Hey Paul,
Thanks for getting back with me. Uh, I haven't attempted a day render yet. I tried doing the part of the tutorial about saving your scene, then starting a new scene and merging your original geometry. Then light it. After that I am not sure what to do. But before you reply with a long set of instructions let me go bace through the tutorial and make sure I didn't miss something simple.
Thanks
-Rob

feel free to ask if you will get any problems with it.
it took me some time too to get everything to work well but i finaly got it :thumbsup:

Hey Squiddi,
Thanks for the help. Still kinda struggling with it but it's not a big deal. I am just basically practicing at this point. I have been reading tutorials on modeling and texturing. I want to get better at that aspect of MAX before I start trying to get anything "in-game". I think I have more fun playing around with 3dsMax than I do playing sc4. It's just incredible the things you can do.
I started playing around with a little water treatment plant just to see what I could do with some water textures using raytraced reflections. I think the water textures turned out pretty cool looking. I also used SimFox's technique from his modeling tutorial (connect, chamfer, bridge etc..) to make the openings for the windows and doors.



If you haven't read his tutorial I highly recommend it. I think in most cases it's a better method than extruding splines or using booleans (No offense Lee... :)  ). I have basically had to relearn the way I do things in BAT/MAX but it is for the better. Someday soon some of these projects might see the light of day.




Til next time
Rob
(still technically an NDEX'er)

Quite obvious where the clean water is! I like those textures and reflections. :thumbsup:

Quote from: tragicomicus1 on December 21, 2008, 01:07:27 AM
I think I have more fun playing around with 3dsMax than I do playing sc4.

Why does that sound familiar? ::)
Replace 3dsMax with iLive's Reader, and that's me... :D

Here's a little progress on the water treatment plant....
 

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi409.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp178%2Frb_brr%2Fwp6.jpg&hash=f7dfb22268b3ab9ef8849a0a9b4638c39b442849)


(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi409.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp178%2Frb_brr%2Fwp7.jpg&hash=9e49339be292698d602f3251acfec543d277eeb9)


I scrapped the building. Didn't like it. I may build another one or maybe I'll use someting from Jess or GC as a prop.