SC4 Devotion Forum Archives

The purpose of this thread is to help you with all actions which can be called "civil engineering" or "civil works" such as:
- Placing transit networks, especially on slopes;
- Making walls, sunken networks, waterfronts and other similar formations;
- preparing the terrain for RCI zoning.

To perform these actions we use various tools, for example:
- Slope Mods, both older ones and the new NHP/Ennedi series
- Diagonal Jagged Edges Mod
- Hole Digging Lots.

As you see , civil engineering in SC4 is a large theme and we (me and other NHP members) think it would be good to speak about it in a complex way.

If you have any problems or questions concerning anything described above, please post them here.
When we will have more particular problems described and solved in this thread, we will create an index in this post.

Adam

I am glad I took a look at the LEX today, WOOO, will look at it later after my Uni open day.

And does it still "not work" with most of the holediggers?

Thanks

Joe

Quote from: star.torturer on February 16, 2008, 01:35:01 AM
I am glad I took a look at the LEX today, WOOO, will look at it later after my Uni open day.

And does it still "not work" with most of the holediggers?

Thanks

Joe

1. Joe, using Hole Diggers is described in the new NHP/Ennedi slope mod readme. Yes, if you have this mod installed, you can use only these Hole Digging lots which need a road to work (Ground Lifter, Hole Digger for Sunken, Hole Digger for Road). But:
- You can create a tunnel without a steep slope, so practically you don't need other hole digging tools They were projected specially to increase the slope at the tunnel entrance to enable creating a tunnel. I decreased the necessary slope value in my new slope mod.
- You can create any slope/sunken network/viaduct configuration using only these three Hole Digging Lots listed above. So again you don't need to use other holediggers.

2. We are working on the new Hole Digging lots set in the NHP (it's an idea of Shadow Assassin and he is experimenting with it now). At this moment we can't promise anything, but maybe we will be able to prepare the next nice surprise for  SC4 players?  :)
We want to make the new tool set fully compatible with the slope mod, we also want to adjust slope heights to use transit networks puzzle pieces easier and more comfortable.

Adam

indeed, I read the readme LOL, just DatPacking the newly installed stuff... Will try it out in a nice big slopey city

and yeah.... once again I am not a good chooser... WHICH ONE???? LOL, chose the medium one cause it sounded middle groundish

cant wait for the new HoleDiggers, sounds like you guys are gona be pwning the civil engineering side of SC4

Joe

Quote from: star.torturer on February 16, 2008, 02:21:28 AM
and yeah.... once again I am not a good chooser... WHICH ONE???? LOL, chose the medium one cause it sounded middle groundish

I can't help you because I don't know your map  :D
I think the Medium version is a good choice at the beginning. But I can give you a little advice:
- If you (or somebody else) like the Smooth version very much, you can use it on a flat terrain or very soft slopes extensively, and when you will meet a few more steep slopes, you can temporarily replace the Smooth version by the Medium or Mount one, make these few necessary steep road stretches and then come back to your favourite version  ;D. Changing the slope mod you will not cause any damages in your formerly created networks.

Edit: The newly uploaded Slope mod is not the same as the previous one in my MD! I improved many things in it. I changed the Smooth version too, I decreasing the Max Slope Along Network for all networks. As Yoman suggested in my MD, I worked even more with the rail look, I hope it is satisfying yet.
So you can find the Smooth version even more challenging than the previous one. But everything is a question of your creativity, all problems can be solved - with the slope mod or without it  :D

I just tested it out... and at crossroads onslope, the downwards slopes created from the flat platforms were very angular... might have been because they were attached to other angles further down the slope, and for some reason I didnt notice much road "waves". and I LOL at the fact that to get from the top of the hill to the bottom covers half the map... hehehe

overall it is very very nice tho  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Joe

Quote from: star.torturer on February 16, 2008, 02:55:24 AM
I just tested it out... and at crossroads onslope, the downwards slopes created from the flat platforms were very angular... might have been because they were attached to other angles further down the slope (...)

Sometimes you can force the network to connect with another stretch in an angular way, especially if you "block" another end of the network stretch. But it can be avoided.
Anyway, I know that it takes some time, but it would be much better to show some pictures! An illustrated problem and explanation are more clear and valuable for others!  :)

shouldnt take much time with my reduced testing plugins

OH NO.... RHW doesnt seem to be working...  woops, forgot that NAM loads after LOL

but luckily the angled thing was fixed... no point for pictures

Joe

okay a couple of noobish questions.

1.   Where in plugins should this load?

2.   Should I search and remove any other slope mods?    (I'm thinkng yes to this one.)



---Gaston

For number 1, item should be placed in the main folder or a subfolder under My Documents>SimCity 4>Plugins. I'm hoping that was what the question was!

For number 2, if you have a slope mod previously installed, the game will selectively pick whichever mod loads last (usually alphabetical). It is best to remove any current slope mods, as to avoid redundant loading of plugins, as well as to ensure proper functionality of Ennedi's slope mod.

Quote from: Gaston on February 16, 2008, 06:38:06 AM
okay a couple of noobish questions.

1.   Where in plugins should this load?

2.   Should I search and remove any other slope mods?    (I'm thinkng yes to this one.)

---Gaston

It is better to answer for the second question first  ;)
ad 2. Yes, you should remove other slope mods from your plugins folder.
The slope mod - as most other mods - modifies values in so called exemplar files which are present in the simcity1.dat. Exemplar files consist a group of parameters dedicated to particular game aspects/parts. The slope mod modifies exemplars called "Street [Road, avenue etc...] Placement tuning parameters". There is one exemplar of this type for each transit network including RHW (it is called "Dirt Road" in Maxis simcity1 file).
The game reads values from simcity1.dat first (simcity1 - simcity5 are Maxis files). Then it reads values from Plugins folders (first from the C/Program Files/Maxis, then from My Documents/Simcity 4 ie. from the place when you put your custom content).
If you have two mods modifying the same exemplar in your Plugins, the game will read them in the alphabetical order (it is a bit more complicated if you have subfolders in your Plugins) and it will use values from the last one (reading values the game overwrites previous values). If your Plugins folder is not well ordered, you will not know which plugin is the source of values used by the game.

There are no other mods using the same exemplars as the slope mod at this moment (Edit: it is not quite true, please read Tarkus' post below!). But you should use only one slope mod version at a time.
As I know every existing slope mod has "slope" in it's name, so it should be easy to search them. Maybe it would be good to search also the word "tunnel".

My description is detailed because the same mechanism works with other mods, so it is good to know these principles.

ad 1. It would be wise to make a subfolder called "Slope Mod" and put your mod to this subfolder. This way you will haven't any trouble if you will change your slope mod as I suggested in my previous posts.


Edit: Thank you Travis (beskhu3epnm) for your help!  :thumbsup:
You posted your answer when I prepared mine  :D however I will leave it as is, maybe it will be good for somebody to read two different explanations  ;)

Thanks for the quick responses.   

Quote from: Ennedi on February 16, 2008, 07:33:35 AM
It is better to answer for the second question first  ;)
ad 2. Yes, you should remove other slope mods from your plugins folder.
The slope mod - as most other mods - modifies values in so called exemplar files which are present in the simcity1.dat. Exemplar files consist a group of parameters dedicated to particular game aspects/parts. The slope mod modifies exemplars called "Street [Road, avenue etc...] Placement tuning parameters". There is one exemplar of this type for each transit network including RHW (it is called "Dirt Road" in Maxis simcity1 file).

Okay,   I removed the BRF slope mod.       I kinda figured that I had to do that.    ;D

Quote
ad 1. It would be wise to make a subfolder called "Slope Mod" and put your mod to this subfolder. This way you will haven't any trouble if you will change your slope mod as I suggested in my previous posts.

I think I should have phrased my question as "Does this have to load in a specific order within the plugins?   ie. before NAM, after SAM, etc.

Quote
Edit: Thank you Travis (beskhu3epnm) for your help!  :thumbsup:
You posted your answer when I prepared mine  :D however I will leave it as is, maybe it will be good for somebody to read two different explanations  ;)

Thank you as well Travis.


---Gaston

I'd recommend that the slope mod loads after the NAM. Even though the NAM doesn't actually have the Road Tuning Parameters in any of its files, it's still recommended anyway to make sure the slope mod works.

The RHW does actually have the DirtRoad Tuning Parameters included in its main files, though, so it needs to load after the NAM if you have the RHW installed.  Come to think of it, though, I believe the Tuning Parameters being included in the RHW file are a holdover from RHW v12, when qurlix edited the draw speed to compensate from the lag induced by the lack of end stub paths.  So, I'll be taking it out for v21 and then it shouldn't matter where you have the slope mod. ;)

-Alex (Tarkus)

Ooh, another slope mod! This is great, but I have a question...

How does this new slope mod compare to the other slope mods out there? I've always wanted to know this since there are quite a few out there, and each of them produces a different slope.

-- John

Quote from: DFire870 on February 23, 2008, 12:09:09 PM
Ooh, another slope mod! This is great, but I have a question...

How does this new slope mod compare to the other slope mods out there? I've always wanted to know this since there are quite a few out there, and each of them produces a different slope.
-- John

The table below shows two network placing parameters values: Max Slope Along Network and Max Slope Change for all my slope mods and for two most popular other ones - bones1 and BRF JRJ. You can find this table in my slope mod zip too  ;)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg205.imageshack.us%2Fimg205%2F3540%2Freadmepropertyvaluesv2yg4.jpg&hash=e666bb93c1d19483ff7ca9a54b4e1790387d2e71)

The main difference between my slope mods and other ones is in the Max Slope Change value. It is about 3,5-6x lower than the Max Slope Along Network in my mods, and it is higher than the Max Slope in other mods. This parameter is responsible for the network smoothness in my mods (but it also causes using them more challenging).
These two parameters ar important, but not only ones. I started to create a large Excel table (all placing network parameters, all networks, all existing slope mods) to compare them all. I need some time to fill them. When I will do it, I will upload the table in this thread (it is too large to simply make a picture of it).
Here is a part of this table (all parameters and a few slope mods values for road).

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg206.imageshack.us%2Fimg206%2F3434%2Fslopemodcomprs6.jpg&hash=cdcac20be9c865741e071254326cad30c2d37d49)

Ah, okay, that clears things up a bit. But just to make sure, does that mean that the smooth version of your mod (ENN_Smooth212) is the smoothest of the ones you compared?

-- John

Quote from: DFire870 on February 23, 2008, 01:48:46 PM
Ah, okay, that clears things up a bit. But just to make sure, does that mean that the smooth version of your mod (ENN_Smooth212) is the smoothest of the ones you compared?

-- John

Yes it is. I made even more smooth one, but it is also the most difficult to use. A few experienced players (like Shadow Assassin) like it, but I didn't release it because I didn't know if anybody would be interested in it.

I really like this new slope mod.    I have only one issue with it.    That issue is that I can't use all the "hole digging" lots.   I didn't realize I used them as much as I do.    Is there anyway a patch could be written that would allow thier use?



---Gaston

Quote from: Gaston on February 23, 2008, 03:50:16 PM
I really like this new slope mod.    I have only one issue with it.    That issue is that I can't use all the "hole digging" lots.   I didn't realize I used them as much as I do.    Is there anyway a patch could be written that would allow thier use?
---Gaston

1. You can make everything you need - viaducts, sunken networks, tunnel entrances - using only two Hole Digging pieces: Ground Lifter and Hole Digger for Sunken. You don't need another Hole Digging Lots. Their purpose is to create tunnels and they increase the slope grade at the projected tunnel entrance. With my slope mods you don't need to do it, you can create tunnels on the moderate slope, it is showed in the readme.

2. Shadow Assassin is working on the new Hole Diggers set. It will give more possibilities than the old one. When it will be released, we will show some pictures how to use my slope mods and these new Hole Diggers together.

Okay, thanks for answering my questions -- I should have realized all of this was in the readme. :-[ Great work, can't wait to use it in my cities.

-- John

can you please include an 8m lifter for buddybuds onslope tunnel portals, i know it was only a beta release but alot of us have and use them....

Quote from: mightygoose on February 24, 2008, 02:34:14 AM
can you please include an 8m lifter for buddybuds onslope tunnel portals, i know it was only a beta release but alot of us have and use them....

Yes! We are going to do it  :)

Mightygoose, the hole digger set I am currently putting together will have:
- 8m hole digger and raiser
- 10m hole digger and raiser
- 12m hole digger and raiser
- 14m hole digger and raiser
- 15m hole digger and raiser
- 24m hole digger and raiser

Even though buddybud's overpasses were originally intended to have a 6m depth, they appear much better visually with a 8m depth.

That makes more sense than the current set... Height ranges are a great idea...

Joe

smoncrie it seems has been surpassed.

Quote from: Shadow Assassin on February 24, 2008, 06:29:27 AM
Mightygoose, the hole digger set I am currently putting together will have:
- 8m hole digger and raiser
- 10m hole digger and raiser
- 12m hole digger and raiser
- 14m hole digger and raiser
- 15m hole digger and raiser
- 24m hole digger and raiser

Even though buddybud's overpasses were originally intended to have a 6m depth, they appear much better visually with a 8m depth.

Okay then.    This sounds great.    I'll just hang loose till they appear.    :thumbsup:


---Gaston

Quote from: star.torturer on February 24, 2008, 06:36:15 AM
That makes more sense than the current set... Height ranges are a great idea...

Joe

An even better idea of Shadow Assassin is the double function of these pieces: if you drag a road across the tile, it works as a Ground Lifter (or Hole Digger for Sunken). If you drag a network starting from the piece but not across it, it creates a tunnel entrance. It is simple and flexible, I like it very much  :thumbsup:

wow... that is ace... but I like having flat holes... will this still be possible?

Quote from: star.torturer on February 24, 2008, 09:00:23 AM
wow... that is ace... but I like having flat holes... will this still be possible?

What do you mean Joe?

at the bottom of the hole it levels out... unlike currently (which of course will bear no resemblance to the new ones) where dragging from one side only, produces an angled slope, and if you try and flatten it out it just "raises" the terrain from the lowest it could have been

Joe

Quote from: star.torturer on February 24, 2008, 09:15:56 AM
at the bottom of the hole it levels out... unlike currently (which of course will bear no resemblance to the new ones) where dragging from one side only, produces an angled slope, and if you try and flatten it out it just "raises" the terrain from the lowest it could have been

Joe

Making flat holes keeping the lowest level achieved by dragging a road will be possible (but to be honest it is possible now too  ;D). There are at least two methods to do it.
This is the first of them:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg179.imageshack.us%2Fimg179%2F1003%2F14mroadtunnel2dn1.jpg&hash=64c8c05a5c3abfc79fc72928f8111829fa65ecb0)

The key is to place a single road tile side by side with the dragged road and touching by one corner to the Hole Digger piece. In this case the terrain will not raise.
There is also another simple and elegant method of making "flat holes" and flat tunnel entrances, but I must find some time to make pictures to explain it.

indeed... I just don't experiment enough... but it would be good if you kept that explanation (and maybe developed it) for later reference and maybe a readme...

Joe

Quote from: star.torturer on February 24, 2008, 09:57:14 AM
indeed... I just don't experiment enough... but it would be good if you kept that explanation (and maybe developed it) for later reference and maybe a readme...

Joe

1. Shadow Assassin is preparing a readme and I think all steps of making a tunnel (including levelling the terrain which is not necessary but improves the whole thing a lot) will be explained there.

2. I'm waiting for uploading the new Hole Diggers set (but please be patient, all of us have RL issues too  ;)) and then I'm going to explain and show some tricks for three important terraforming tools:
- Slope mods (not only mine, previous ones too, they are still useful for many people!)
- New SA Hole Diggers
- Diagonal Jagged Edges Mod.
In my opinion these tools are strictly connected and should be discussed together.

sometimes I forget that you guys are amazing... then it hits me in the face again LOL

Your programming attempts are amazing too and I'm sure we will use your creations in future!  :thumbsup:

Whew, the modding tools are all sorted.

Now, a picture of what you'll be getting. ;)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi237.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fff288%2Ffoxteltv%2Fhdmenu.jpg&hash=06bfbf3928e041fbf8f5cd45d4c7c1dd0e193e7e)


Still putting together the readme. I'll probably use a zip file for simplicity.

Can't wait for these, it revolutionizes the way the community will play the game. So many options now...

Ooh, I can't wait for these, they look great!

Is there going to be an MML for this set? ;)

-- John

Good work SA. I really like the text.

OMG...

/me waits as patiently as he can

Joe

Hi i'm having weird issues with the nhp slope mod medium 315 to be excact in that its almost impossible for me to build bridges unless they're road ones. street and rail just turn red when i try to increase height which mean ships cant pass underneath and avenue and highway bridges wont build at all unless they are really really long. the water i'm trying to cross is maybe 10 to 12 tiles wide max. thanks in advance
Patch

Fantastic stuff.   I'll be able to use combinations to get a final hieght that I really am looking for.


---Gaston

Great work here so far
Would it be possible to include 1m diggers/raisers?

Quote from: patch_110 on February 25, 2008, 10:59:09 AM
Hi i'm having weird issues with the nhp slope mod medium 315 to be excact in that its almost impossible for me to build bridges unless they're road ones. street and rail just turn red when i try to increase height which mean ships cant pass underneath and avenue and highway bridges wont build at all unless they are really really long. the water i'm trying to cross is maybe 10 to 12 tiles wide max. thanks in advance
Patch

The quick answer could be as follows:
You can make all bridges using all NHP slope mod versions. Look at the picture below, the third one from the bottom is the One Way Road (I use a mod removing arrows from OWR).

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg505.imageshack.us%2Fimg505%2F4898%2Fbridges1sk3.jpg&hash=572ec71e153415f1a54d234995d7ee736307b9a3)

Some bridge height adjustment is possible too (compare the right side of the avenue bridge on both pictures).

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg505.imageshack.us%2Fimg505%2F7786%2Fbridgesave1gp6.jpg&hash=203f30e1ef1d869888a539d8ffc89c9be2fd5009)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg505.imageshack.us%2Fimg505%2F1749%2Fbridgesave2cm2.jpg&hash=0c999fcde896348de868103caa7d751cf3886f88)

But to do it you need a bit of terraforming: You should have some flat terrain on both riversides (or projected ends of the land bridge). It can be done in two ways:
1. Use God Mode levelling tool, level the terrain along the projected bridge line and then make a valley/river leaving some levelled terrain on both ends;
2. Use TerrainQuery code (click Ctrl X, then type this code or use Extra Cheats Plugin, close the code window, click the query button. The mini query at your cursor will show you x, y, and z terrain tile coordinates, the "y" one is the terrain height).

You can also have a slope on both riversides, but it should be very soft.

It was a quick answer. I could finish at this moment, but it would be unhonest. You have found a real problem.
I didn't noticed it - I checked all networks, but my terrain was prepared in the way I described above. I checked only road bridges on the uneven, "raw" terrain.
And your (and mine too  ;)) intention is to make creating bridges for all networks easy also on the unprepared terrain.
Unfortunately, if we want to make all bridges as easy as road ones, I should change the "MaxDisplacementBeyondTheReferencePlane" parameter. It has both advantages and disadvantages. I want to check also a few other parameters such as a group of smoothening properties.

I need a few days to prepare not only a detailed answer, but also something like a "buliding bridges guide". So, please for some patience  :)

Adam

Edit:

Quote from: Warrior on February 25, 2008, 01:15:29 PM
Great work here so far
Would it be possible to include 1m diggers/raisers?

I'm sure it is possible. But what could be a purpose of such subtle adjustment?

For the bridge problem, would that be solved by using joerg's Bridge Height Mod?

-- John

QuoteOne Way Road (I use a mod removing arrows from OWR).

where does this need to be placed (in order) in the plugins.     Mine no longer works.


---Gaston

Quote from: DFire870 on February 25, 2008, 01:38:47 PM
For the bridge problem, would that be solved by using joerg's Bridge Height Mod?

-- John

No. Every bridge has it's own exemplar and there is a property called "Min Clearance" in it. The name speaks for itself, it is the minimum clearance between the network surface and terrain (or water). It's default value is 22,5 m, Joerg changed it to 0 m.
Bridge exemplars decide also which is the minimum bridge length, it's minimum span, possibility to be built as a water/land bridge and such things. They are independent from network placing parameters.
And of course if you want to build low bridges, you should use the Joerg's mod.

Quote from: Gaston on February 25, 2008, 01:43:46 PM
where does this need to be placed (in order) in the plugins.     Mine no longer works.

---Gaston

OWR arrows reducing plugin is placed in it's proper position by the NAM installer.
The NAM folder ("Network Addon Mod") has a subfolder called "Plugins". The installer puts here automata plugins, traffic, roudabouts and others which you have choosen during installation. This is a place for reducing arrows plugin too.

Thanks for ur help Ennedi  i seem to be getting good at finding problems lol

So it is possible to have any hieght if needed.

Quote from: Warrior on February 26, 2008, 11:03:40 AM
So it is possible to have any hieght if needed.

Yes, but it depends on which bridge you choose. Some bridges can look ugly if you will make them too low.

wondering why never before i looked at this topic ()what()
looking patiently for what's to come on here ::) :thumbsup:

mauricio.

Whew, your Slope Mod is awesome, Ennendi. "Smooth" is exactly what I was looking for, and could never find.
It is way more realistic then any other Slope Mod released, and uncompareable to the original slope settings. This, in combination with the Hole Diggers/Ground Raisers Shadow_Assassin is creating, will totally enchance the way that I, and many other people, will play Simcity.
Huge kudos.  ;D   

Quote from: caspervg on March 08, 2008, 06:17:32 AM
Whew, your Slope Mod is awesome, Ennendi. "Smooth" is exactly what I was looking for, and could never find.
It is way more realistic then any other Slope Mod released, and uncompareable to the original slope settings. This, in combination with the Hole Diggers/Ground Raisers Shadow_Assassin is creating, will totally enchance the way that I, and many other people, will play Simcity.
Huge kudos.  ;D   

Thank you very much Casper!
Shadow Assassin ordered a "Diabolical" ie. even more smooth version  :D and I made it for him, but I didn't release it because I was afraid it could be too challenging for most players. But it exists too  ;)

And I love the Diabolical version.  ()stsfd()

In any case, the hole digging lots are finally ready for upload. They should be on the LEX pretty soon. A detailed tutorial will be posted here soon.

Come and get your lurvely lots here! (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1544)

Excellent! What's the next step? A reissue of the Diagonal Jagged Edges Mod, so it compatible with all terrain mods?  ::)

I dont believe that is possible Casper, as the terain mods change bits of the same file that the jagged edges mod does.

oh and YAY cant wait to use these in game, well done

Joe

Quote from: caspervg on March 08, 2008, 09:22:51 PM
Excellent! What's the next step? A reissue of the Diagonal Jagged Edges Mod, so it compatible with all terrain mods?  ::)

Yes, the Diagonal Jagged Edges Mod will be available soon, but it will be released in a different way - see below  :)

Quote from: star.torturer on March 09, 2008, 12:26:38 AM
I dont believe that is possible Casper, as the terain mods change bits of the same file that the jagged edges mod does.

oh and YAY cant wait to use these in game, well done

Joe

Yes Joe, you are right. The DJEM modifies the same exemplar (Terrain Properties) which is used by all terrain mods. It modifies only one parameter in this exemplar, but it changes the terrain look a bit (causes more rocky textures). I made some experiments to minimalize this effect and this work was successful. But some changes are still visible.
The old pjot's mod changes the terrain look much more (both Columbus one and Maxis one), but most people didn't notice it because this effect is not visible on flat/soft hills terrains, only in mountains.

As you remember, the pjot's DJEM contains five versions: for the Maxis terrain, Columbus terrain "Standard", "Snowcapped", "Snowcapped Low" and "Snowcapped Lower". We can do the same ie. make the DJEM for all these terrains (new version, less affecting the terrain) and in addition for every new CP terrain mod (Italia, Meadowshire, Missouri Breaks etc.). But we are thinking about something more:
- There are some mods which modify the Terrain Properties exemplar - Gizmo Water Flora, Gizmo Day-Night Mod (!), Limitless Beach, Water Monolith Night Textures and some others. We want to coordinate these plugins and collect all Terrain Properties modifications in one special plugin placed after the terrain mod and all other mods.
There will be two ways of release it:
1. Releasing maps with specially prepared terrain mods "DJEM included" and with some other features, according to the demand
2. Preparing the terrain with (or without) all mods described above for individual request.

There will be a new thread about it soon  ;D

Adam

Edit:

Quote from: Shadow Assassin on March 08, 2008, 06:27:44 PM
(...) In any case, the hole digging lots are finally ready for upload. They should be on the LEX pretty soon. A detailed tutorial will be posted here soon.

Come and get your lurvely lots here! (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1544)

Thank you Daniel, it's an excellent tool!  :thumbsup:

That seems to be a very interesting idea, Ennedi.

I am experiencing some trouble with building road bridges that are raised to meet the needs for boats to pass (Wysokosc adpowiednia dla promow). Although it is 'fixable' by dragging the road one tile further then the bridge start/end, and then dragging the slope with a street/rail and after this slowly replacing the street/rail with road tiles; this is not really an 'easy' solution.

With kind regards,
Casper

This mod is excellent. I'm trying a tiered city right now but have never done a sunken network before. I'm using 15m increments and was curious how to get a decent looking sunken ground highway onramp. All of my experiments have the road piece being leveled to the ground highway and the overpass road screws up the leveling pretty badly. Do I have to sink it more or make the sunken space something like 4x4? I'm using the NPH slope mod with the Urban setting.

@macbony: I think I understand your problem, but it would be much better if you would show it on the picture(s), seeing it I could give you more precise advice.

@caspervg: I'm preparing an answer for you, I had to make some pictures.
- If you created a road bridge raised above the surrounding terrain, dragging a road downhill will really cause a digging effect (as I understand this is your problem). But you can drag a street and then drag a road along it without any bulldozing and "slowly replacing" it with the road tiles. If you used rail to make a slope, you must bulldoze it of course, but you can simply bulldoze it and drag a road without any slowly replacing too.
- Thinking about an answer for you I found also another nice method of creating non-road bridges  ;D. It will be interesting also for patch110 and (I suppose) for some other players too.
My time is a bit limited now, I think I will prepare everything for tomorrow.

Adam

I have tiles with no tops.

I assume it's a problem, although it offers some interesting possibilities...

Was doing some terraforming for a Hydro Elect Dam when I managed to produce a knife's edge tile; I've never seen this in the game before (see images)

NAM aside the only plugins installed are Ennedi's Slope Mod and Shadow Assassin Hole digging lots.

Any thoughts?

Hi, guys. I scanned the thread, but I'm not sure anyone else had my problem. I have the hole-digging lots and they work great for that, but my problem is that I'm unable to delete them.  $%Grinno$% So after plopping the lot, digging the hole, and deleting the "excess" road, the hole digging lot remains. What could be the issue?

Adam thank you for the slope mod and Im going to make wonderful use of it!!!

-Paris: That effect is completely normal and is (as far as I can recall) just a matter of careful terrafoming. It can produce some beneficial effects too. I believe dedgren, in 3RR (exactly where I'm not sure) showed how to take advantage of the games retaining wall for roads and that knife edge trick to make a road topped dam. It should only be two tiles wide to produce the effect, and therefore does not present the game a chance to level things off. Hope that helps.

QuoteSo after plopping the lot, digging the hole, and deleting the "excess" road, the hole digging lot remains. What could be the issue?

Did you bulldoze the lot (or try to)?

Otherwise, it seems to be a case of the infamous immortal lot syndrome. I've never had that happen personally, and this lot was tested through normal use. You'll have to plop the same lot surrounding that lot, then bulldoze them all simultaneously.

I'm not sure why this happens, actually.

Quote from: alexr19 on March 18, 2008, 08:47:40 AM
Hi, guys. I scanned the thread, but I'm not sure anyone else had my problem. I have the hole-digging lots and they work great for that, but my problem is that I'm unable to delete them.  $%Grinno$% So after plopping the lot, digging the hole, and deleting the "excess" road, the hole digging lot remains. What could be the issue?

I'm not a specialist of the "immortal lot syndrome", but I suppose your issue is rather caused by something in your system, or something what happened when you installed SA digging lots. I used these lots many times, both during testing and later, and never had any problem with bulldozing them.
Long time ago I had similar problem with a few lots and it was temporary. I had also a strange issue with old Smoncrie's Hole Digging Lots - I was able to bulldoze them, but after bulldozing the digger and building a tunnel I saw an excavator over the tunnel entrance  :D. It happened only in one region and didn't repeat in other ones.
I know my answer is not very helpful, I will ask somebody more experienced (I think RippleJet should know much more about it) for an advice.

Threestoges and Shadow Assassin, thank you very much for help, my time is horribly limited last few days  :(

Sorry I took so long to respond. I had no SC4 time for a few days. Here's two pics, one of the intersection and one of the parallel ramps for both highway types. The tooltip mentions onslope pieces, so I could be misguided and might not even have the correct plugin.

Quote from: Shadow Assassin on March 19, 2008, 04:08:39 AM
Otherwise, it seems to be a case of the infamous immortal lot syndrome. I've never had that happen personally, and this lot was tested through normal use. You'll have to plop the same lot surrounding that lot, then bulldoze them all simultaneously.  I'm not sure why this happens, actually.

To quote Jeronij from another thread,  "The root of the problem lies in the lot design. Some part of the building blueprint is a little bit outside the lot dimensions. This makes the game think that the building is not only in the lot, but also in the terrain / lot where the building footprint is placed."

I'm not sure if there are other causes of Immortal Lot Syndrome, but I figured I would pass the information along.  I haven't tried the new hole diggers yet myself, but soon!

QuoteTo quote Jeronij from another thread,  "The root of the problem lies in the lot design. Some part of the building blueprint is a little bit outside the lot dimensions. This makes the game think that the building is not only in the lot, but also in the terrain / lot where the building footprint is placed."

I am aware of that, it's just that the Immortal Lot syndrome can be entirely random, and affect lots that don't have anything sticking out beyond the boundaries. I checked the building blueprint, all it is is just an invisible building.

Now, I'm not sure if that's a no-no, but since this lot was intended as a terraforming assistance tool, that point is well, moot. Keep in mind, though, that Lot Editor won't let you save a lot if any of the building is outside the lot boundaries: that has to be done by ilive's reader... and I have not modified the parameters related to that, only the parameters related to the transit-enabling of this lot.

Quote from: Shadow Assassin on March 20, 2008, 04:41:34 AM
I am aware of that, it's just that the Immortal Lot syndrome can be entirely random, and affect lots that don't have anything sticking out beyond the boundaries. I checked the building blueprint, all it is is just an invisible building.

I had a look at the lots myself, and none of them should suffer from the Immortal Lot Syndrome.
  - They all have a LotEditor blueprint of 4×4 m, which isn't even close to the edge of the lot.
  - The occupant size of the invisible building that's centered in that blueprint is in all cases 1×1 m.

It's if the latter (the occupant size) overhangs the lot that you would get the Immortal Lot Syndrome.

Quote from: Shadow Assassin on March 20, 2008, 04:41:34 AM
Now, I'm not sure if that's a no-no, but since this lot was intended as a terraforming assistance tool, that point is well, moot.

For these kinds of lots, the invisible building is righteously motivated! :thumbsup:
After all, there aren't supposed to be any buildings on these lots, and no properties that would be based on the building size.

Thanks for the responses, guys. :) I haven't gotten a chance to play in a few days, but when I do I'll try the hole-diggers again and see what happens. 

Could new hole digger lots be updated for those who want to install only needed lots instead of installing all lots?

Someone has reported a issue at MAS71's wiki. He said "14m digger crashes the game when I tried to plop it. But if I installed 6 or more lots from download, then the game does not crash." I got same issue. Maybe many people(including me) would have installed all lots, so anyone didn't notice this bug.

From looking into files, all lots excluding 8m ones need to be edited to avoid the crashing. Last values of "LotConfigPropertyLotObject" that start with 0x00000000 should be the same values as IID of the lot itself.(or "Lot Resource Key" in another exemplar? Since I haven't tested this matter, I don't know which is right.) This picture shows what I'm saying.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg384.imageshack.us%2Fimg384%2F980%2Fnhp10mdiggerxs6.th.gif&hash=ae9cec2daa2d7e651c4622a6daf93e850f311e23) (http://img384.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nhp10mdiggerxs6.gif)

I thought I edited them... it is odd.

Then again, my computer was acting a little unusual at the time. I've tried to fix the problem (that was why I delayed the release), but I don't know how it somehow came up again.

Perhaps I'll have to look at them again. It's a simple problem to fix, but hugely irritating, because I have to find the offending IIDs, and it seems I apparently missed a few (it's entirely my fault, I swear I had changed them all manually).

So much for the "shortcut" way... :( Believe me when I say that I did check the lots to make sure they did work, I just couldn't fix it at the time, because I couldn't find what was wrong... otherwise they worked perfectly. (I believe there were five or so IIDs that needed to be changed for the lot to work)

It can be done quite easily, only a 5 minute job. Unfortunately, I don't have any time to do it at the moment.

engineers, i have a problem.
playing around with my plugins folder, i removed ennedi's slope mod to the desktop, then when i put it back in, played the game, the RHW became affected by it?

My mod affects RHW as all other networks, ie. it modifies the maximum slope along network and it's smoothness (maximum slope change between neighboring tiles). RHW placement parameters were adjusted during this mod creation, as I remember they are similar to avenue parameters.

If you had your slope mod installed before NAM (and RHW) earlier, it didn't affect the RHW of course (it affected all other networks because their placement parameters are adjusted in simcity1.dat and the slope mod exemplar will overwrite them independently from it's position in the Plugins folder). RHW uses an additional unfinished Maxis transit network (it is called "Dirt Road" in simcity1.dat transit network placement exemplars). RHW files are needed to appear this network, so it's every modification (for example different textures, and also the slope mod affecting RHW) should be installed after the RHW folder.
Maybe you changed the slope mod position removing it and then returning back to plugins?

Previous slope mods (BRF, CSX, BRF/JRJ) didn't modify RHW parameters. There is a slope mod for RHW in kt3 series (separate slope mods for various networks).

If you are speaking about other events with RHW, please explain what you mean exactly. Some pictures would be very helpful.

Adam

Ok, for the first time ever I read every message in this thread. That ought get me some champagne (Laurent-Perrier, svp..). ANd it leaves me with several questions. Slope Mode first:
I tried Ennedi's recently, in Barsalonia (brilliant, undulating region). Ton's of slopes, hill, etc. And I did try all three versions. I ad to stop using them because I ended up having huge problems with rail. I tend to use tunnels under city regions to get a large pass-through traffic, and connecting tangential rails, or creating rail interchanges is problematic. Same for bridge approaches. Moreover, I ended up redoing harbour flats over and over again because streets/roads would not connect - unsuitable terrain, or some such message - became extremely frequent. Thus I wonder if I am doing something wrong???

I also saw the mention of indistructable lots: while I never had that with hole digging lots (old or new), I do have an annoying old download (no longer to be found on either STEX nor LEX) of a small urban school: initially it plops fine, gives the right stats, but after a "decade or so the building vanishes, and the lot becomes unremovable (pic below). So, does anyone have a solution for this (because I cannot find the building in the plug-in folder, either)??

Quote from: HandsOn on April 22, 2008, 04:32:21 PM
I also saw the mention of indistructable lots: while I never had that with hole digging lots (old or new), I do have an annoying old download (no longer to be found on either STEX nor LEX) of a small urban school: initially it plops fine, gives the right stats, but after a "decade or so the building vanishes, and the lot becomes unremovable (pic below). So, does anyone have a solution for this (because I cannot find the building in the plug-in folder, either)??

Unfortunately you would have to find the SC4Lot file with that school, since the occupant size of the building exemplar needs to be reduced in order to fix the Immortal Lot Syndrome. If you manage to locate that file, please enclose it to a post here and I'll take a look at it and tell you how to fix it. ;)

Quote from: RippleJet on April 22, 2008, 04:42:10 PM
Unfortunately you would have to find the SC4Lot file with that school, since the occupant size of the building exemplar needs to be reduced in order to fix the Immortal Lot Syndrome. If you manage to locate that file, please enclose it to a post here and I'll take a look at it and tell you how to fix it. ;)

Therein lies the rub: I've gone through all my schools (all located neatly in a \civic\schools\ folder) with the SC4 Tool and tried to find it with the Reader, but thus no luck. Yet the icon is still in the menu. I do know it was a simple lot-tweaking job in the original, because the main building is merely an SC4 medium wealth office or some such. I'll look again..drat!

Thanks,

@Shadow Assassin
Hello Shadow Assassin and all. :)

I want to speak about your useful work NHP Hole Digging Lots (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1544) today.
Please remeber a post about EBINA san. I got(noticed) same problem yesterday me too. &mmm
and I read EBINA san's post and I had try to correct value for your each LOTs.

These are Instance of LOT and a 13th value of "LotConfigPropertyLotObject" each LOTs now. "$Deal"$

LOT	Lot Instance	13th value
8m dig	0x74C45710	0x74C45710	Good
8m rais	0x34C4572A	0x34C4572A	Good
10m dig	0x74C45780	0x74C45710	Bad
10m ras	0x54C45786	0x34C4572A	Bad
12m dig	0xF4C45740	0x74C45710	Bad
12m ras	0xD4C45747	0x34C4572A	Bad
14m dig	0x74C45753	0x74C45710	Bad
14m ras	0x14c45759	0x34C4572A	Bad
15m dig	0xB4C45763	0x74C45710	Bad
15m ras	0xD4C45769	0x34C4572A	Bad
24m dig	0xD4C45794	0x74C45710	Bad
24m ras	0x54C4579A	0x34C4572A	Bad

I think you able to understand well that all LOT except 8m(dig/raise) has same value with 8m(dig/raise) instance. :-[
so a game is crashed when plop them without 8m-LOTs(dig/raise) in Plugins folder.
(All of LOTs dependence 8m(dig/raise)-Lot. of course, they are not opend on L.E. too now.)

I think that your NHP-HoleDiggingLots is very useful more than originals.  :thumbsup:
so Please update corrected LOTs if you could for us who want to use them. :)

Now, They are working very well in the game now.(I alredy corrected them)
If you have no time for remake them by yourself, or If you need them. I would send my corrected LOTs for you. ;)


Thank you for reading.
and Thank you again Ebina san for your precise　point. ;)

I had completely forgotten about this!

Unfortunately, I can't exactly update the lots on the LEX because beskhu3epnm uploaded them on behalf of me...

I'll ask Barby about updating these lots.

Dear friends,

Would it be possible to make lots that raise or dig 10 tiles or so in a row?
I usually work in flat areas and raising and digging for highways and rails is such a boring task: put a digger lot, dig the hole, place single street tiles in enormous amounts.
It would take much less time if I could place lots that take ten or more tiles up or down at one instance. Maybe like PEG's leveller tools?

Thanks

Quote from: FrankU on June 25, 2008, 04:48:07 AM
Dear friends,

Would it be possible to make lots that raise or dig 10 tiles or so in a row?
I usually work in flat areas and raising and digging for highways and rails is such a boring task: put a digger lot, dig the hole, place single street tiles in enormous amounts.
It would take much less time if I could place lots that take ten or more tiles up or down at one instance. Maybe like PEG's leveller tools?

Thanks

It is possible to make leveller lots, but i will always lead to the difficult question: Which size will be the best for most people?  ;D

But fortunately you can level a large area - even the whole big city - in only a few whiles.

First decide which level will be your basic one and prepare a flat row for SA Raiser/Hole Digger lots:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg88.imageshack.us%2Fmy.php%3Fimage%3Dlevel1eb7.jpg&hash=b2fca1cb6304492c090188664224f90cd2c8c4ab)

Then level a small area (not more than 10x10 tiles, 6x6 will be enough too) using Raiser (or Hole Digger depending on your needs) and road:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg88.imageshack.us%2Fimg88%2F4185%2Flevel2ox4.jpg&hash=e51891029528ae6845010f9b0d15a3bdd7161633)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg88.imageshack.us%2Fimg88%2F6261%2Flevel3fg8.jpg&hash=ab96aec52aeb870cfb46efe359c3e615728ca943)

Now you should use God Mode levelling tool (not this one available in your city, you must switch to the pre-city God Mode). Click Ctrl+Shift+Alt + God Mode button (this one with the sun icon  :)). Choose levelling tool.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg88.imageshack.us%2Fimg88%2F5378%2Flevel4gk6.jpg&hash=3da76c3c1168976ca7f3e0291095d1215d92f0e9)

The default levelling tool size will be bigger than your flattened area. Decrease the tool size (press Shift 3 or Shift 4). The tool circle should be smaller than the flattened area.
Now enlarge the flattened area making it a few times bigger. Then you can increase the tool size (Shift 9) and/or change the zoom. Now you can level your whole city very quickly.
With some practice you can finish edges of the flattened area using only the levelling tool, decreasing it's size to Shift 2. You can also use road tiles to make it precisely. You can also smoothen edges using another God Mode tool.
This method works very nice if you have an uneven edge of the flattened area, for example if you are working at the foot of the mountain. You can also use it to prepare the long flat surface for your projected highway.

Don't afraid of using God Mode terraforming tools in your cities!  :) They can be precisely adjusted to your needs, you must only remember:
Shift 1 - Shift 9: size
Shift F1 - Shift F9: strength.

Adam

@Shadow Assassin
Thank you for reply. ;)
Ok, I'm(we are) waiting for upload fixed LOTs while. :)
and sorry to my misunderstand who upload them.  :-[
(I did not read who upload them. I saw only your name in the works.)

Thank you again Sharow Assasin, beskhu3epnm and Smoncrie for your original useful works. :)

Ennedi,

Thanks for your elaborate answer.  :thumbsup:
I know the technique you showed here. God mode levelling has no secrets for me anymore. But it is not accurate enough to level a whole highway through a flat city. Only two tiles wide... It is more work than the boring plopping of street tiles.
And yes, we could quarrel endlessly about what is the perfect size, but on the other hand, I think that a leveller that is 1 tile wide and 6 or 10 tiles long (maybe both?) would satisfy most wishes.

Quote from: FrankU on June 27, 2008, 01:15:57 PM
Ennedi,

Thanks for your elaborate answer.  :thumbsup:
I know the technique you showed here. God mode levelling has no secrets for me anymore. But it is not accurate enough to level a whole highway through a flat city. Only two tiles wide... It is more work than the boring plopping of street tiles.
And yes, we could quarrel endlessly about what is the perfect size, but on the other hand, I think that a leveller that is 1 tile wide and 6 or 10 tiles long (maybe both?) would satisfy most wishes.

For what its worth, I agree with FrankU, Ennedi (you and I have discussed similar issues before), and I thingk that a set of levellers, modelled on the originals (sorry, don't recall who made them) which had 2-tile-wide pieces, would make a lot of sense, especially if they cam in three sizes: single, 3-long and 6-long in the different heights and depths, but all regardless of network would be raised with a road for single-width and an avenue or highway for the double width.

The current diggers/raisers recommended for your excellent slope mods have faults and actually don't work as well as the older ones.

@FrankU, HandsOn:

1. OK, so we will have to discuss an idea of making the levellers set  ;D
But we speak here about two different things: raisers/diggers and levellers.
- All raisers/hole diggers are 1 tile long (and 1 or 2 tiles wide). If we can make longer lot which could raise/lower the terrain - we should ask Shadow Assassin, he knows this mechanism.
- Levellers (the only existing ones were made by PEG, they are 1x4 and 4x4) work in another way. We must have 1 (or 4 depending on which leveller we use) tiles levelled at the needed altitude, then we place a leveller next to previously levelled tiles in the direction showed by an arrow.
Making such leveller is probably quite easy (but I'm not a specialist in making custom lots). If we would make a levellers set, our working method would be to set the needed terrain altitude (using raisers/hole diggers if necessary) and then use levellers to level larger area (for example for highway preparation). In this case it wouldn't be necessary to make too many lots, only a few ones with different sizes (as HandsOn suggested).
We will discuss it in NHP.

2. I think SA diggers/raisers will be updated soon, if Barby will not have time, I can help with it too. I will speak with Shadow Assassin about it.

The levellers made by Peg have a disatvange - they only really level the terrain if the difference in height isn't too great. even if you place several - regardless of size - next to each other, once you bulldoze them, the bumps and inundations simply reappear. With or without slope mode - I've basically have given up on them.

Raisers and diggersare, naturally, a different ball game, but they are the only ones really useful, at least I think so. And as others have stated, trying to use either God or Mayor mode to even out a stretch of two tiles by whatever length is a tedious and utterly time consuming task. What makes it more difficult is the fact that "walls" require a certain height (15m I think), but the quick level tools act on the "base" rather than follow the contour of the land, thus tend to leave the sides of the dig at various heights.

Besides, since the quick levellers are round it becomes nearly impossible to follow a line of a planned road, highway or rail. And Peg's levellers simply don't do the job.

Quote from: HandsOn on June 27, 2008, 03:32:13 PM
The levellers made by Peg have a disatvange - they only really level the terrain if the difference in height isn't too great. even if you place several - regardless of size - next to each other, once you bulldoze them, the bumps and inundations simply reappear. With or without slope mode - I've basically have given up on them.

I agree about PEG's levellers, but we must remember that they were made long time ago and modders' knowledge was less at that time. Anyway it was a pioneer work. Placing levellers one next to another isn't effective, I agree again. I'm afraid we can have similar problems with new levellers too.
Levellers have nothing common with the slope mod.

Quote from: HandsOn on June 27, 2008, 03:32:13 PM
Raisers and diggersare, naturally, a different ball game, but they are the only ones really useful, at least I think so. 

I agree.

Quote from: HandsOn on June 27, 2008, 03:32:13 PM
And as others have stated, trying to use either God or Mayor mode to even out a stretch of two tiles by whatever length is a tedious and utterly time consuming task.

I don't agree. It only needs looking at your terrain shape and proper planning. After that, leading the flat stretch across a large city needs a few minutes (and a few minutes for finishing edges according to your needs - you can want walls with constant or variable height, or soft slopes). And of course it needs some practice.

Quote from: HandsOn on June 27, 2008, 03:32:13 PM
What makes it more difficult is the fact that "walls" require a certain height (15m I think), but the quick level tools act on the "base" rather than follow the contour of the land, thus tend to leave the sides of the dig at various heights.

So we have now the third, again completely different theme  :) The "quick level" tools keep the terrain level which we have at the start point. But as I understand, you would like to have a tool which exactly repeats the terrain shape, but 15 m higher?
I can't see any practical application of such tool. If we prepare an area for road, highway or building, our needs are usually different than the previous terrain shape. Walls will have usually variable height on an uneven terrain.
You don't need to have all walls at least 15 m high. You need diagonal walls at least 15 m high if you use the Diagonal Jagged Edges Mod to have them appeared correctly. If you don't have DJEM, your diagonal walls should be at least (about) 22 m high and you need to use 24 m SA Raiser to achieve it.
There are always many methods to achieve the specific goal. You can - for example - shape the terrain using the transit network curvature (using one of my slope mods), then raise a small area and repeat this operation higher. You can also do practically everything using Terrain Query and the micro terraforming method which I showed many times.
We should take into account that we don't develop the new game  :D We are limited by the Maxis SC4 content. We have a limited amount of parameters which can be changed by us. So we can't create any "magic" tools to perform something completely different than Maxis creators provided (however we do it from time to time  ;D)

Quote from: HandsOn on June 27, 2008, 03:32:13 PM
Besides, since the quick levellers are round it becomes nearly impossible to follow a line of a planned road, highway or rail. And Peg's levellers simply don't do the job.

Again I can't agree. It only needs some practice. To make a flat, narrow surface with a straight or diagonal wall you need to decrease the God Mode levelling tool size (Shift 2) and move the mouse slowly. This breakwater and all waterfronts were made using this method without any significant problem, w3ith a few little improvements after the first operation. Using road tiles or raisers would be impossible on water  ;)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg237.imageshack.us%2Fimg237%2F8238%2Fb3port3genmb8.jpg&hash=f6d9bab9fc22eb81a616402a66ba2c4e65dbad86)

Informative post Ennedi, and nice terraforming in that picture. I've done breakwaters and they are a *pain*

&apls

&apls Yes Adam, we agree to disagree. And you bring in the superb photographic evidence to boot. Still, as you said, it is a game, and at that point it becomes work.

Of course I have come to expect miracles from folks like yourself - you cannot deliver brilliance all the time and then act surprised when simple chaps like myself expect yet another miracle  $%Grinno$%.

Seriously though, I still believe that a remake of the levellers, with today's insight, would help enormously; and I still think that a varied set of raisers/diggers would go a long way towards creating what you need.

Naturally, practice makes perfect. But if everyone, yourself included, was really willing to "accept" the Maxis limitations, we would have neither levellers nor slope mods today  :thumbsup:

So, my friend, let's set the usages aside for the moment, and that leaves us with a need for a remake of one set of tools, namely the levellers; and a new set of raisers/diggers. Remains the question of who will step into the breach  ::)

SA, you can update your own lots now and have been able to for some time ;D I have also changed the uploader for the hole diggers from beskhu3epnm to you so you can update those yourself.

Ho Ennedi your pic of your city is magnifical  and the nature look so realistic

Quote from: HandsOn on June 27, 2008, 03:32:13 PM
And as others have stated, trying to use either God or Mayor mode to even out a stretch of two tiles by whatever length is a tedious and utterly time consuming task.

just an idea. what about a dragable road that flattens the tiles to be the same height. it could be a slope mod that is flat. then remove it from the plugins folder when done landscaping. is this possible?

 &apls

Quote from: bighead99 on June 28, 2008, 03:24:59 AM
just an idea. what about a dragable road that flattens the tiles to be the same height. it could be a slope mod that is flat. then remove it from the plugins folder when done landscaping. is this possible?

&apls

Well Adam? Does this not touch on an earlier discussion we had a while ago..?  :P

Quote from: bighead99 on June 28, 2008, 03:24:59 AM
just an idea. what about a dragable road that flattens the tiles to be the same height. it could be a slope mod that is flat. then remove it from the plugins folder when done landscaping. is this possible?

Good idea, I will check it immediately :thumbsup:

QuoteSA, you can update your own lots now and have been able to for some time Grin I have also changed the uploader for the hole diggers from beskhu3epnm to you so you can update those yourself.

Heh, thanks. :P

Will update them tomorrow - I have the stuff ready, but I just need to look through again to make sure I don't forget anything.

Making a draggable road that levels land, without having to put things in and out of plugins folder is not possible.
But making a puzzle piece that basically lays lots of one tile streets next to each other in one click and levels land is possible.
There are two main bonuses. practically any shape can be made so no need to stick to rectangles (this means diagonal levelers can be done)
If you place it so that one tile is on land and the rest are in water, it will raise the land up from under the sea.
And one slight con I can think of atm is that they must be included in the NAM.

I can make each piece in just a few minutes if not less, and any one who can make puzzle pieces( and possibly those who can't) should find it quick and easy.

If anyone is interested I can post pictures

Jonathan

Quote from: Warrior on June 28, 2008, 07:09:35 AM

If anyone is interested I can post pictures

Jonathan

Interested? Warrior - that's like asking if anyone might be interested in custom content!  :thumbsup:

This is a brilliant idea!!!! But why would it have to be included in NAM - and if indeed it needs to be - why is that a con rather than a pro?

It would have to be included in NAM because it's a puzzle piece, and that's a slight con because it would mean new pieces could only be made when the NAM gets updated.

Understood; now is the question if - for the sake of trying this out - some non-puzzle pieces could be made that folks could download until the NAM get's updated..  :P

Quote from: Warrior on June 28, 2008, 07:09:35 AM
Making a draggable road that levels land, without having to put things in and out of plugins folder  is not possible.

It is true of course, if we would modify road (or other network) parameters to use it to levelling terain, we would be able only to build completely flat roads  ;D. We should put the plugin with modified parameters into Plugins folder, open the city, make what we need, save, exit and remove the plugin.
But making such plugin is possible and there is only a question if anybody would want to play with removable plugins (something like NoMaxis mod, sometimes we use it and sometimes not).
There are more possible plugins of this kind, because some needed features are contradictory. For example, we must modify the same property to avoid the "digging effect" and to make building brideges easier, but we need various values in both cases. We can't achieve both goals in the same time. But I suppose I will make a set of such removable tools, although I don't know if somebody will be interested in it. Personally I think it can be worth of some work.

As for your puzzle pieces idea - of course, please show pictures!  :D :thumbsup:

Since this "moving stuff in & out of the plugins folder" falls at least partially into the realm of the SC4 Organizer (and a planned addendum to it), I am wondering about something:
SC4 loads plugins exactly when? During the initial startup, for example: does it load ALL plugins in order AND keep them open? Or does it load only what it needs when you actually click the menu item? And what would happen if at first it found a given plugin, but that plugin would be moved WHILE the game is running? Or, conversly, what would happen if a plugin was ADDED whhile the game was running?

This may sound like an insane question - but, please, bear with me for a moment..

I never tried, but wouldn't the OS give an error message "Not Authenticated", when you would try to move a plugin out of the folder while the game is running?

I know if you try and modify a plugin when the game is running windows doesn't let you, which happens to me very often and get annoying :)

Another idea you could have two plugins folders, one with the slope modd that makes roads flat and one without, then you just have two SC4 icons one that loads the plugins folder with the slope modd and the other loads the one with out the slope modd. (you have a different plugins folder for different shortcuts using the info here: http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=3683.0 )

There's not much to show for the puzzle piece thing atm, once I have added a preview to the puzzle piece (probably the longest thing to do with them) I'll upload some picture that should make it easier to see/understand.

The reason I asked is because I am planning to build a "File Watcher" that checks periodically on the region folder to see if you have recently saved a city. If so, it will try and duplicate that file as a date-stamped backup. Since it runs with admin permissions of the system, it bypasses the usual warnings and ought to (still have to test this) work even though the city is open (SC4 closes the file after a safe operation). Since this mini-app is TSR, it could have switch that allows moving of perloaded plugins - if those files are closed. Which is why I asked if what SC4 does, and when.

For example if I place the puzzle piece like this:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi200.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa230%2FwarriorST%2FPRELEVEL.jpg&hash=f48cc6c680294f3255b5d64bbf552daee07fa1c4)

then the result is like this:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi200.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa230%2FwarriorST%2FaFTLEVEL.jpg&hash=b9b3af34cf4fa8f0ee5bf07b61326e4785cf5909)

And of course it can be used in the conventional way as well.

HandsOn: btw, you can copy files while SC4 is using them.

I don't mean to hijack this thread, I'm sorry if I am.

This is brilliant stuff! It would solve a number of tasks and make them soooo much easier.. &apls

mmmm....  i can feel a beta of some sorts down the track. what a nice develeopment on this idea.

@Warrior: Don't worry, every good idea is warm welcomed here! I have nothing against promotion of your (and everybody else) creations, if only they will be really useful and connected with SC4 civil works  :D

But of course it would be good to look at the beta version... ;)
(I'm going to prepare some slope mod-conneced stuff, but I will need a few days, I'm horribly busy all the week except weekend)

Adam

Jonathan , fantastic stuff there, thats a novel idea

and I believe the plugins are all loaded at the start of the game, and then referenced like a database when you plop things

Joe

After a bit more testing, I found that if you raise a tile 15m and then use the puzzle piece to level the tiles next to it, it only raises the land 14.9 (ish) and lowers the 15m tile very slightly(the same when you lower a tile 15m, except the opposite) , but it works like it should do when placed like in the picture I showed above.  It maybe possible to make another set of raisers/lower that compensate for this(so a 15m raiser would actually raise it 15.x m), but I have no idea who you work out what the "x" would be.

I imagine that the use for the puzzle pieces above is still quite useful, for making ports and stuff?

Quote from: Warrior on June 29, 2008, 02:10:20 AM
I imagine that the use for the puzzle pieces above is still quite useful, for making ports and stuff?

Jonathan, they will be indispensable when making seaports!
This is a very brilliant idea! Now, when's the next update for NAM?... ::)

Tage: It will be ready when its ready :P

Joe

Quote from: Warrior on June 29, 2008, 02:10:20 AM
After a bit more testing, I found that if you raise a tile 15m and then use the puzzle piece to level the tiles next to it, it only raises the land 14.9 (ish) and lowers the 15m tile very slightly(the same when you lower a tile 15m, except the opposite) , but it works like it should do when placed like in the picture I showed above.  It maybe possible to make another set of raisers/lower that compensate for this(so a 15m raiser would actually raise it 15.x m), but I have no idea who you work out what the "x" would be.

I imagine that the use for the puzzle pieces above is still quite useful, for making ports and stuff?

This happens not just with the raisers/diggers but with the levelling tools as well - the game seems to "randomly" react to most forms of plopping. And I do think that which ever slope modes are installed at the time will influence the amount of X as will the DJM

I'll try removing the NHP slope mod, and see if the lowering is still the same, and what is a DJM?

I don't really have any idea about seaports and rarely use them in game (although I do play the game rarely, spending most time here and modding) so I'm not sure what shapes and lengths, would be good. Any suggestions would be great. I'm glad I can help, I'm surprised noone had done this before.

A DJ(E)M is a Diagonal Jagged Edges Mod. At the moment, the only one in existence is this one (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=15048) by pjot.
As for sizes, I think 2x2, 3x3, 4x4, 1x4, 1x2, 1x3, 1x4, 1x6, 1x12 and 6x6 would be appropriate.

Quote from: Warrior on June 29, 2008, 06:00:51 AM
I'll try removing the NHP slope mod, and see if the lowering is still the same, and what is a DJM?

I don't really have any idea about seaports and rarely use them in game (although I do play the game rarely, spending most time here and modding) so I'm not sure what shapes and lengths, would be good. Any suggestions would be great. I'm glad I can help, I'm surprised noone had done this before.

Sorry, that ought to read DJEM - Diagonal Jagged Edges Mod.

Right, thanks.

I think I should probably make a new thread somewhere, although I don't know where. #
And the pieces don't have to rectangular.

Quote from: Warrior on June 29, 2008, 06:15:58 AM
Right, thanks.

I think I should probably make a new thread somewhere, although I don't know where. #
And the pieces don't have to rectangular.

Sinmply start a new topic under whichever category you think is most suitable.

As for the size: Methinks single width is probably more useful; may 1, 3, and 4 long, so you can combine. Double-width is only necessary if - like with exsiting diggers, the TE ability prevents you from placing lots next to each other.

@Warrior: We can check if the slope mod can have anything common with the "0,1 m" effect you described.
Please test your leveller with three versions of the slope mod I attached to this message (remember, remove your existing slope mod first and use only one version at a time. The slope mod should be placed after NAM (ie. not in the root folder, but in the folder which the game will read after NAM folder. It can be simply "Slope Mod" folder).

If any of these mod will remove your effect, please inform me. It will be taken into account at the next slope mod update. If not, I have the next idea  ;) (in fact I suppose the reason is different)

Adam

I can't do anything more tonight, as I have to do homework(pointless stuff  :) ), and I'm going out after school tomorrow, so the earliest I can do anything is Tuesday evening. If I can fit it in I will though.

No problem Warrior, I have much RL work too  ::)

any update on this recently? the puzzle piece approach is a breakthrough, at least for me.

- Allan Kuan

Quote from: allan_kuan1992 on July 08, 2008, 01:02:48 AM
any update on this recently? the puzzle piece approach is a breakthrough, at least for me.

- Allan Kuan

Don't worry Allan! I think Warrior will work on it if he will find enought time. All of us are limited by RL events, I must also say that the lotting process (especially if it is is connected with new methods of modifying game parameters) needs much testing and we can often meet completely unexpected problems  ;D. So it is sometimes difficult to say when the work will be finished, even if the test version seems to work correctly.

I can say the same about Shosaloza - I saw your comment in my MD (thank you!) but I would rather to answer here, my new update is not ready yet and some of my viewers could be disappointed seeing a single reply instead of an update  :). I make some experiments with new stuff and with terrain mods, this theme is especially time - consuming  $%Grinno$% I also need some time to learn more about graphics software. But everything is done to give you some pleasure in future  :)
I hope I will be able to make an update in next two weeks.

I also think about new version(s) of my slope mod. I have read all comments in this thread very carefully and I'd like to create mods with some new possibilities. Unfortunately it is rather impossible to have "all-in-one", so I suppose I will need to create some removable tools (to put into Plugins when needed, then save the game and remove). I think it will be useful at least for a few people. But this task will need a few weeks too  :)

Adam

thanks for the update. take your time. =)

- Allan Kuan

Just a little note: A few days ago I received the following comment in my Slope Mod lot description in LEX (from deion303111):

QuoteATTENTION: If using the SFBT Diagonal Fillers this will disturb the way they work. Use with caution. My advice is to build all your slopes and then exit the game. Remove the slope mod, start the game, plop the fillers, and then when ever taking pictures leave the slope mod out. Not trying to discourage downloads or anything. Just a little attention.

This is not true. There is no way to affect SFBT Diagonal Fillers by the Slope Mod, I use both of them together all the time and I haven't any problems. But of course I checked it.

SFBT Fillers work well on flat surfaces (with the slope mod installed)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg233.imageshack.us%2Fimg233%2F1089%2Fsfbtfillers1vc3.jpg&hash=5bf1015d2cfd5ac4edff6c65548471b7aecf765f)

And of course they work well on the slope too

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg233.imageshack.us%2Fimg233%2F2351%2Fsfbtfillers2bu0.jpg&hash=1983a74c2efcd5e6a0eadb17aa3634d2505e3bfe)

I remember about all comments and suggestions about the slope mod announced in this thread. I'm going to make some further modifications, but now I have to finish my RL work  :)

Adam

Wow Ennedi, very good work here. These two pics looks fine ;)
I'm until forward the next... ;)

I am very interested in the ploppable puzzle piece for levelling land.
I advise to make not too many differnt sizes. I guess the plops are needed for:
- digging tiles out of the water along water edges: for ports.
- levelling land for raised or sunken highways and rail.

So my advice is: 1x3, 1x6, 1x10, 2x10 and 6x6
1x3 for the small additions,
1x6 for longer additions, but still relatively small enlargements,
1x10 for raised/sunken roads and rail,
2x10 for raised/sunken avenue and highway,
6x6 for enlargement of the ports.

I guess that a slope modd with horizontal "slopes" will not be able to raise land out of the water?

After some experiments I can say that - in my opinion - levelling the terrain can be done very fast, precisely and comfortable with the help of existing terraforming tools. We only need to learn how to use them and this knowledge is not popular in the SC4 community.

To help with it I created a new tutorial, you can find it here. (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=6405.0)
Maybe it will help to some people?  :)

Adam

Edit: And another surprise for you: The temporary plugin for building land bridges without the rain tool and for levelling the terrain using transit networks.
You can find it here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=364.msg202965#msg202965)

Ennedi,

The tutorial is completely clear to me. In my experience though, too often there are small differences in height that appear, so the terrain isn't completely flat in the end. So I don't feel comfortable with that solution.
I will use your slope mod though, as soon as possible. It looks promising. Also for the possibility to make land bridges.
One time I wanted to make a land bridge in a seaport tile with lots of ships in the water. After I had put some rain into the small hole where the bridge should come I found out that all ships had sunken (I guess?). That was not funny! Of course I found out after having saved my city...  :'(
So the rain tool does have some effect on existing lots in the water.

Reopen the city and see if the ships are still sunken; the effect should not be permenant.

Ennedi,
I have been experimenting with your temporary levelling tool. It is great and works perfect.
Yes indeed, sometimes you need to save and exit the game, but that is not too annoying to me.
I though it was pity that I could not extend my land over water with the mod. But I found a simple solution.
If I drag a road along the edge of the water, to secure the level, I can raise ground from out of the water by placing the NAM road onramp puzzle piece! It gives a perfect flat extension.

Let's see if I have a picture.

Here is my harbour edge. I want to extend it.
I drag a road, one tile away from the edge of the water.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi277.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fkk63%2FFrankU_bucket%2FLandbridge%2520tutorial%2FS_Adoorn-Heeteren-2Jan001228230799.jpg&hash=5a62e6315574b43e5e37032a6e7fb870cf1d0354)

Then I place the onramps.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi277.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fkk63%2FFrankU_bucket%2FLandbridge%2520tutorial%2FS_Adoorn-Heeteren-2Jan001228230867.jpg&hash=f5872044094d48103baa027d411cce639a458d83)

Well, the rest is easy.

BTW: this trick also works without your slope mod, only the extension will not be flat, but the ground can be raised by means of the single street trick.

Look here:

I want to make a tunnel under water
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi277.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fkk63%2FFrankU_bucket%2FLandbridge%2520tutorial%2FS_Adoorn-Heeteren-2Jan001228228662.jpg&hash=fede27e6692811576b2342be67457b48d2450b89)

So I extend the land
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi277.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fkk63%2FFrankU_bucket%2FLandbridge%2520tutorial%2FS_Adoorn-Heeteren-2Jan001228228827.jpg&hash=e228b8f54518c2a68dae0f5c7889ae8496626662)

I extend more
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi277.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fkk63%2FFrankU_bucket%2FLandbridge%2520tutorial%2FS_Adoorn-Heeteren-2Jan001228228867.jpg&hash=fc29ee6a32118e40f22036581c370b3c9a6316ab)

Now I need to raise it
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi277.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fkk63%2FFrankU_bucket%2FLandbridge%2520tutorial%2FS_Adoorn-Heeteren-2Jan001228228967.jpg&hash=e4c39bec36999694364de3a7014ee5a51cd79183)

And I can build my tunnel
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi277.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fkk63%2FFrankU_bucket%2FLandbridge%2520tutorial%2FS_Adoorn-Heeteren-2Jan001228228991.jpg&hash=2a39c7dcefeeaca15801ae7e376e8e68a0699fe8)

Fun!

FrankU, all these pictures are the same.  ???
And once you fix them can you please wrap them in the "Insert Image" code.

Robin  :thumbsup:

Robin, yeah, I saw it.  :thumbsup:
You are just too quick!
Repaired.

Might this technique be good enough for a tutorial? I'll gladly make it.

FrankU,

Yes, it is very simple and effective solution!  &apls
You showed a real creativity, it would be fantastic if more people would have fun making such experiments  :D :thumbsup:

Of course it is good enough for a tutorial, please make it!
Your method is safe, because we usually can place transit network pieces next to existing lots without damaging them. So if you have your waterfront developed yet and you want to modify it, you can safely make it your way.
This method will be effective mainly for levelling smaller areas - you terraform 3x1 tiles each time. But it is enough in many cases. I will prepare another tool for bigger engineering works in seaports and I will show it soon - but it will be a temporary mod again, so your solution will be still useful.

I remember what you said about "not completely" levelling the terrain if we use terraforming tools. I'm going to check it carefully, maybe there is another "0,1 m height difference" case? I didn't notice it yet. Of course I will inform you about results.

I'm very glad to see other people using this thread to show their own experiments! I would love to see more of them  :thumbsup:

Adam

this stuff is looking awesome, thanks Adam and Frank :)

Joe

Perfect for making seaports, FrankU! &apls
And yes, please post it as a separate tutorial in the "Terraforming Tutorials (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?board=56.0)" section! :thumbsup:

And Tage forgot, but you should post it on the wiki also :)

Joe

Quote from: JoeST on December 02, 2008, 12:13:45 PM
And Tage forgot

I don't need to remember as you always do it for me! ;D

Ennedi,

I have been using your "Flat Slope Mod", as I call it, extensively.
I found one curious bug.
When placing the puzzle piece that connects the raised ground highway to the raised highway in a diagonal direction I get veeeery deep holes in my highway and in my landscape. A orthogonal connection looks fine.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi277.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fkk63%2FFrankU_bucket%2FS_Adoorn-Heeteren-2Jan001228489561.jpg&hash=6da8f6938a041c24a9de3568fd6bcbdc551e1589)

Funny enough it it not hard to reapiar the holes by placing road onramp puzzle pieces over the holes.

I've seen big potholes but those are deadly... what are you doing running a highway through such a large tidal flat anyway?

I am building a new region and am working on the main infrastructure: highways and rail.
These flat areas are becoming my sea port.
I guess I'll show some results, eventually.

Well I realized I hadn't got Ennedi's Slope Mod installed (stupid me I know) I just has the maxis one, which stopped the leveler from working.
So if a list of shapes and sizes wanted or needed can be given I can add these to the NAM, and hopefully in the next release. These are really simple to create so any shape or size (and possibly not in the 16x16 'limit').

Jonathan

Jonathan,
Adding it to the NAM would be fantastic.
What I think would be nice to have is: A leveller one tile wide and one that is two tiles wide with each a length of about 10 tiles. Hopefully then it will be possible to place them directly next to each other for making large lengths of raised or sunken roads/highways/rail.
Another thing that would be really great is a leveller that levels an area to an exact heigth. Especially the moreoften desired seaport level. So that an area of, say 3x3 or 6x6, will be levelled to seaport level, no matter what level it was. Is that possible? Sonds like PEG's leveller tool, but that somehow does not seem to work right when I use it.

You will have to use the lot diggers and raisers then plop at least 2 tile with the road tool. Then when using the Leveler it make it bigger.
Also it is not compatible with the Maxis slope mod. So far I only ever have used Ennedi's slope mod and know it works with that, other slope mods I have no idea about.
Also you must plop it on one of two touching road tile, else it will lower the land by a small but noticable amount.

Jonathan

Hi, I am having trouble with Ennedi's Slope Mod. In particular the problem is that it will not allow me to construct avenue or highway bridges. Usually I get a message that says "Unsuitable grade for construction," although occassionally it will give me a message saying "Cannot place network on this terrain type." I am using the Mountain version of the slope mod.

Hello,

the slope MODs conflict with all the tunnel entrance MODs because they're using the same exemplars to define the slope of the entrance tiles. In my NAM TOOL, this is solved with a dialog where the user can select bethween various tunnel entrances and choose to emulate the Tunnel And Slope MOD. Actually, the only slope MOD to be emulated is the one by Andreas Roth and I did not know that there are lots of other ones besides. This means I have to implement a select box where the user can select bethween all existing MODs.

Is the table on the first page of this thread still valid or have the values of the slope MODs almost been changed meanwhile?

Sorry for late reply, I'm very busy in RL now.

Quote from: crushedcar on July 31, 2009, 10:48:31 AM
Hi, I am having trouble with Ennedi's Slope Mod. In particular the problem is that it will not allow me to construct avenue or highway bridges. Usually I get a message that says "Unsuitable grade for construction," although occassionally it will give me a message saying "Cannot place network on this terrain type." I am using the Mountain version of the slope mod.

1. My slope mods modify some of the transit network placing parameters to make networks more smooth. But smoother network needs less steep terrain to be placed successfully. Because of it some people have problems with modifying their existing networks after installing my slope mods, the height difference between two ends of the projected network is simply too high. The same issue can happen when you are trying to build a bridge, when the terrain on one or both sides is too steep.
The solution in this case is to build a road bridge first. Roads in my slope mods have different parameters than other networks (it was widely discussed in my MD "Ennedi Plays Shosaloza") and you should easily build a road bridge in every case. When you have the road bridge, use road tool to level some terrain at its ends, then bulldoze the bridge. Now you have two areas of the sanme height on both sides of the river, and you should be able to build another bridge (highway, avenue, rail...) successfully.

2. You can build various parts of your transit networks using various slope mods.. For example, you can use my slope mod to make smooth rails and highways, then you can remove it from plugins and build more steep road in the specific place, or build a bridge. If you will remove the slope mod from plugins (or replace it by another one), your previously built transit networks will not be destroyed!

3. I prepared a special slope mod to make both water and land bridges easy in all situations, but it will work as a temporary mod. I have some other temporary mods prepared, but I must find some time to make an explanation what are temporary mods and how to use them. Then I will be able to release these mods
Anyway, it is possible to build a water and land bridge exactly in every situation. I will try to explain it and release new tools as soon as possible.

Quote from: GoaSkin on August 20, 2009, 09:46:01 AM
Hello,

the slope MODs conflict with all the tunnel entrance MODs because they're using the same exemplars to define the slope of the entrance tiles. In my NAM TOOL, this is solved with a dialog where the user can select bethween various tunnel entrances and choose to emulate the Tunnel And Slope MOD. Actually, the only slope MOD to be emulated is the one by Andreas Roth and I did not know that there are lots of other ones besides. This means I have to implement a select box where the user can select bethween all existing MODs.

Is the table on the first page of this thread still valid or have the values of the slope MODs almost been changed meanwhile?

Any slope mods (including mine) doesn't change tunnel models heights in the exemplar "Transit Network Placement Parameters". So the only confict between the slope mod and the tunnel entrance mod can happen if the custom tunnel entrance for the given network is different than original (for example the default tunnel entrance height for road is 13,8 m and it is the same in all existing slope mods. If you will make the tunnel entrance mod with the tunnel height different than 13,8 m, you will have a conflict)
Yes, the table on the first page of this thread is still valid, at least when we speak about tunnel entrance models height.

Adam

Actually, there are three known tunnel models using different heights:

rail tunnels:
original: 7.25
european (by fukuda): 10.2
japanese (by caribou): 15.0

road/oneway tunnels:
original: 13.8
SC2K skin (by HamsterTK): 13.0

Additionally they all reference to different building exemplars because this way it is possible to use a different skin for new tunnels while the existing ones exist like they are; so it is possible to have as many tunnel skins in use simultanously as you like.

Quote from: GoaSkin on August 20, 2009, 03:17:35 PM
(...) Additionally they all reference to different building exemplars because this way it is possible to use a different skin for new tunnels while the existing ones exist like they are; so it is possible to have as many tunnel skins in use simultanously as you like.

Yes!
If somebody would like to use the tunnel entrance mod together with the slope mod, he don't need to use an exemplar consisting of all transit network placement parameters; he can create a new exemplar and put only properties connected with tunnels into it. This exemplar should be loaded after the slope mod ie it should be placed into plugins after the slope mod file.
It should be easy to do in your SC4 Config program.

Adam

Edit: It is a bit uncomfortable that Caribou's rail tunnel entrance model is 15 m high. It will cause problems when somebody will want to use this model in typical sunken networks. Sunken networks and rail/road embankments are usually 15 m deep (high) when we want to create viaducts and use raised network pieces. Raised networks are 14 or 15 m high.
It would be good to modify that tunnel entrance model (in the Reader, using Chrisim's method) and make it not higher than 13,9 m.

Quote from: Ennedi on August 20, 2009, 02:19:28 PM
1. My slope mods modify some of the transit network placing parameters to make networks more smooth. But smoother network needs less steep terrain to be placed successfully. Because of it some people have problems with modifying their existing networks after installing my slope mods, the height difference between two ends of the projected network is simply too high. The same issue can happen when you are trying to build a bridge, when the terrain on one or both sides is too steep.
The solution in this case is to build a road bridge first. Roads in my slope mods have different parameters than other networks (it was widely discussed in my MD "Ennedi Plays Shosaloza") and you should easily build a road bridge in every case. When you have the road bridge, use road tool to level some terrain at its ends, then bulldoze the bridge. Now you have two areas of the sanme height on both sides of the river, and you should be able to build another bridge (highway, avenue, rail...) successfully.

2. You can build various parts of your transit networks using various slope mods.. For example, you can use my slope mod to make smooth rails and highways, then you can remove it from plugins and build more steep road in the specific place, or build a bridge. If you will remove the slope mod from plugins (or replace it by another one), your previously built transit networks will not be destroyed!

3. I prepared a special slope mod to make both water and land bridges easy in all situations, but it will work as a temporary mod. I have some other temporary mods prepared, but I must find some time to make an explanation what are temporary mods and how to use them. Then I will be able to release these mods
Anyway, it is possible to build a water and land bridge exactly in every situation. I will try to explain it and release new tools as soon as possible.

Adam

I had so much trouble laying bridges I put this mod in and took it right out again. Tryed all 3 versions. Not to mention I got hooked on the smooth versions slopes. While the values may seem strict compared to Maxis defaults, by civil engineering guidelines they are still very lenient (not that the game engine has much to do with reality as I am learning). There was no going back to Bones mod which I was using before. So what I did was took the default file and set your values into it (sans the displacement and cost changes). The thing is the 35m displacement effect is enough to make one quite insane. The NAM wide angle curves have the same holedigging problems with my mod as well.

So today I put your mod back in (sans only the cost changes this time :P ) which of course drove me batty not being able to make bridges. Also the few times I was able to lay them, I had the opposite effect; instead of the stupid digging, the roadbed got raised, A LOT. Which to me was just as bad.

I think I found a solution.  &idea A small change of the displacement to just 5 seemed to eliminate both of my problems and beats the hell out of having to swap mods in and out just to make a bridge.

I also lowered the road to 30 and Shadow Assassin's hole digger 24m still works. I'm wondering if it can be adjusted lower still without breaking it.

Also thanks, not just for making this mod and sharing it, but for making the tables of values and explaining how things work. I like modding probably even more than playing so learning new things about how a plugin works always makes me happy.  :thumbsup:

Quote from: ldog on October 25, 2009, 07:30:51 AM
I had so much trouble laying bridges I put this mod in and took it right out again. Tryed all 3 versions. Not to mention I got hooked on the smooth versions slopes. While the values may seem strict compared to Maxis defaults, by civil engineering guidelines they are still very lenient (not that the game engine has much to do with reality as I am learning). There was no going back to Bones mod which I was using before. So what I did was took the default file and set your values into it (sans the displacement and cost changes). The thing is the 35m displacement effect is enough to make one quite insane. The NAM wide angle curves have the same holedigging problems with my mod as well.

So today I put your mod back in (sans only the cost changes this time :P ) which of course drove me batty not being able to make bridges. Also the few times I was able to lay them, I had the opposite effect; instead of the stupid digging, the roadbed got raised, A LOT. Which to me was just as bad.

I think I found a solution.  &idea A small change of the displacement to just 5 seemed to eliminate both of my problems and beats the hell out of having to swap mods in and out just to make a bridge.

I also lowered the road to 30 and Shadow Assassin's hole digger 24m still works. I'm wondering if it can be adjusted lower still without breaking it.

Also thanks, not just for making this mod and sharing it, but for making the tables of values and explaining how things work. I like modding probably even more than playing so learning new things about how a plugin works always makes me happy.  :thumbsup:

I'm more than satisfied reading your message. I is not so easy to explain how my mods work and to describe my experiments, but I always hope a few inquisitive players will read my posts and they will not only put these mods into Plugins, but they will want to play with them a bit  ;). This is very interesting, sometimes even more than building a city  :D It also gives me an opportunity to learn new things, my way of thinking is not the only one and somebody else can have a better idea.

I didn't want to make displacement more than 0 for other networks than road, because i wanted to eliminate raising at all. But you found a good compromise, if it works for you - very well! :thumbsup:

You can find some information about my slope mods in my MD (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2157.msg101601#msg101601). If you like modding, I suggest you also to try my "Bridges and levelling slope mod" - you can find it here, the mod is attached to the message. (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=364.msg202965#msg202965)
This mod has two functions, the link above leads you to the description how to build bridges, the second function is levelling the terrain much easier and more efficiently. It is especially useful when you want to quickly prepare large flat areas. I described it here. (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2157.msg217331#msg217331)

I'm going to release this mod such as some other ones I made a few moths ago. But I still haven't enough time, I have a lot of RL work.

Maybe it is off-topic, but after all it is a civil engineering thread  :D, so Ill show you what takes me so much time:
This is a huge boiler building (140 meters high) during erection in one of the biggest Polish power plants.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fileden.com%2Ffiles%2F2009%2F3%2F6%2F2352238%2FBlok1.jpg&hash=3e2aacbba919d249ef66074097f04cbef7948fe6)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fileden.com%2Ffiles%2F2009%2F3%2F6%2F2352238%2FBlok2.jpg&hash=824bdec174e2d03f55a2e98436680d70ec3280c7)

A view from 135 m level to the plant

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fileden.com%2Ffiles%2F2009%2F3%2F6%2F2352238%2FWidok1.jpg&hash=b9bc30cb5dd42775ad58be2c0b5c537052ac3098)

...And to the building site - quite nice Simcity, isn't it?  :D

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fileden.com%2Ffiles%2F2009%2F3%2F6%2F2352238%2FWidok2.jpg&hash=227dd8d12f5f9850b985d9af2d48e1098dd49f8d)

The steel structure of the building was painted in workshop, then paint covers were badly damaged during erection

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fileden.com%2Ffiles%2F2009%2F3%2F6%2F2352238%2FStructure1.jpg&hash=967ff152d326512ce6217f7339985f27092b0f09)

Now I'm making an expertise of these damages and then my company will probably make renovation works, it will need several months.
But I'm trying to find some time for SC4 and I'm going to prepare some new mods soon  ;)

Adam

Quote from: Ennedi on October 25, 2009, 10:41:23 PM
I'm more than satisfied reading your message. I is not so easy to explain how my mods work and to describe my experiments, but I always hope a few inquisitive players will read my posts and they will not only put these mods into Plugins, but they will want to play with them a bit  ;). This is very interesting, sometimes even more than building a city  :D It also gives me an opportunity to learn new things, my way of thinking is not the only one and somebody else can have a better idea.

I didn't want to make displacement more than 0 for other networks than road, because i wanted to eliminate raising at all. But you found a good compromise, if it works for you - very well! :thumbsup:

You can find some information about my slope mods in my MD (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2157.msg101601#msg101601). If you like modding, I suggest you also to try my "Bridges and levelling slope mod" - you can find it here, the mod is attached to the message. (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=364.msg202965#msg202965)
This mod has two functions, the link above leads you to the description how to build bridges, the second function is levelling the terrain much easier and more efficiently. It is especially useful when you want to quickly prepare large flat areas. I described it here. (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2157.msg217331#msg217331)

I'm going to release this mod such as some other ones I made a few moths ago. But I still haven't enough time, I have a lot of RL work.

Maybe it is off-topic, but after all it is a civil engineering thread  :D, so Ill show you what takes me so much time:
This is a huge boiler building (140 meters high) during erection in one of the biggest Polish power plants.
Adam

Thanks. I will check them out too. I'm sure my technique needs work as well. I've actually gone up to about 7, because it can still be really troublesome over "more interesting terrain" but then the displacement starts getting annoying again. Like you, I am finding that I have very little tolerance for the effect. Also lowered road to 25 and hole diggers still work, although probably not in every instance. I only tested them on flat terrain.

Really cool pics. Especially the massive cooling towers. Are you up in a helicopter for some of them?

I just downloaded your slope mod, this is probably going ot make me look stupid but,  I can't even build a avenue!!!! >:(
Even the slightest slope is "unsuitable grade for construction"  what am I doing wrong???

Did you perhaps install the most radical version of the mod? I think there are some more mild forms.

I recently downloaded your slope mod. I haven't had luck with any in the past. A long time ago I had a slope mod that worked great, but it stopped one day. I tried downloading yours, read the readme, selected one of the slope mods (medium one) and put it in my plugins folder. It didn't work. Hopefully you can help me.

Quote from: Jayster on August 03, 2010, 11:44:25 AM
I recently downloaded your slope mod. I haven't had luck with any in the past. A long time ago I had a slope mod that worked great, but it stopped one day. I tried downloading yours, read the readme, selected one of the slope mods (medium one) and put it in my plugins folder. It didn't work. Hopefully you can help me.

Most probably you have another slope mod installed in your plugins. It can be also a reson why your old slope mod "stopped one day". If you want to check it without make a time - consuming investigation, try to create a subfolder in your Plugins, call it "zzz_slope_mod" and put my slope mod there. If it will work, I'm right and I would suggest you to find that another one - just to have your Plugins well - organized. If the slope mod will still not work, inform me please.

Adam

I actually did find another slope mod installed which I thought was odd. I deleted it and I'm going to go try it out. And I'll do that too, put it in the folder with 'zzz' in front of it. Thanks! :thumbsup:

EDIT: Well I put it in the folder 'zzz_slope_mod' and it still didn't work. I do have the BTM Mod and that comes with its own slope mod so maybe if thats the problem then what do I do? I'm pretty sure I could delete the BTM Mod because I don't use it much and I prefer the HSRP over it actually. Thanks for your help yet again.

EDIT: I think I may have gotten it to work somehow. It worked with the RHW so I think I'm good. I'll post back here again if it doesn't work.

EDIT: So far it only works with RHW.

where can I download this mod?

gays,Is it necessary to quit the game when I want to switch any one version?

I believe so, yes. ;)

Hello guys !

I've been using slope mod for some months and it's been great. The mod is amazing and you guys did a great work.

However, I'm experiencing some errors. It seems like slope mod is working fine, but only for RHW and streets. Road and Rail work with maxis parameters for slopes. I considered some errors that appeared in this thread, but I don't think they have anything related to my problem.

So, I'd be glad if you could help me. Once more, congrats for such great work.  ;D

Problem already fixed, thanks anyway.

I need some help.  I'm trying to use the hole digger lots and they just won't work.  I have completely leveled an area 8x8 and I can't get it to work on any one lot.  All I get is the "unsuitable to build network" error.  I'm very frustrated.  Any help?

Thanks

try higher ground. you can't dig under sea level ;)

Working with RHW building a diamond exchange.  Tried both smooth and medium slope mods, but everytime I drag out a highway from a ramp, it says it is unsuitable for building.

It is acting like putting a rail line over a hill.  It flattens the area.  Without the mod, you can drag road and rail over a hill and it would look unrealistic. The mod seems to try to flatten any raised ground.


Any ideas?

How long are your ramps, Mikey? If you could share a picture with us, I'm sure someone will be able to help.

Cheers,
Kevin

Kevin, ramps are not too long.  It seems like when I have the ENN_SlopeMod_Medium315 plugin installed, everytime I use any piece of RHW, it wants to flatten the area.

Not sure what I am doing wrong. I was watching some tutorials by Asteconn and he would use a piece of rail line to flatten out hilly areas and bumps.  The RHW pieces are behaving the same way. They just want to flatten what is in their way.

Help is appreciated.

I just watched this video again http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftaX14yRcBA

After I use the ground lifter to do some terraforming, whatever piece of RWH I use flattens the land.  In the video he uses a piece of rail line because he said that RHW did not have slope information so the piece could climb to a 45 degree angle.

This video is a year old, so maybe I missed something.

Am I supposed to remove the SlopeMod plugin after I raise the ground? I was using ENN_SlopeMod_Medium315

and then I changed it to smooth but every piece still flattens the ground?

Any ideas?

OK, I think I found my problem.  I replaced the ENN_SlopeMod_Medium315 with

BRF_TunnelAndSlopeMod-bJERONI.dat and it seems like the rest of the tools work as discussed in the tutorial.

Is there a problem with the  ENN_SlopeMod_Medium315  mod?

Thanks

Quote from: mikeyb44 on December 09, 2010, 02:56:33 PM
OK, I think I found my problem.  I replaced the ENN_SlopeMod_Medium315 with

BRF_TunnelAndSlopeMod-bJERONI.dat and it seems like the rest of the tools work as discussed in the tutorial.

Is there a problem with the  ENN_SlopeMod_Medium315  mod?

Thanks

No. There isn't any problem with the ENN_Slope Mod_Medium315  :D

The only thing which can cause a problem is that you haven't enough place to make your ramps.

The shape of the network is determined by (mainly) two parameters: Max Slope Along Network and Max Slope Change.
The Max Slope along Network tells how steep can be your network. When you drag your road (rail, RHW etc...) from a flat area to another flat area lying lower, your network goes down, reaches the maximum steepness, then goes down till it touches the terrain on the lower area, then it becomes horizontal. If the Max Slope Along Network is smaller, you need more tiles to reach that lower area.
The Max Slope Change tells how big can be an angle difference between two neighbouring network tiles. If it is big (for example equal to the Max Slope Along Network), the network reaches the maximum steepness immediately, but it looks angled and unrealistic. Default Maxis networks have such settings. If the Max Slope Change is small, the network looks smooth, but it needs more tiles to cover the given level difference.

Look please at my message in this thread - page 1 (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=3832.msg122574#msg122574). You will find there a table with a comparation of Max Slope Along Network and Max Slope Change values.

If you want to build an interchange, most probably you have two flat areas one 15m higher than another. If you have my slope mod version 315 installed and if you start from the higher plane, you will need not less than 10 or 11 tiles to reach the lower plane. In other case you will get a "unsuitable for building a network" communicate.
If you don't have so much space, you can try to use my mod in version 620, you will need about 8 tiles to make a RHW ramp for 15m height difference.

And remember: you can use various slope mods to make various fragments of your transit network! It means that you can use the smooth version to create the basic layout, then remove the slope mod and replace it by another, less demanding one to connect networks in "problematic" places. Previous effects of your work will not be destroyed in that case  :). I discussed it in this thread too, try to find that message.

I hope it will help, if not, please inform us here.

Best regards
Adam

Adam,

Thank you for your reply and explanation.

I wish I could provide screen shots of my problem, but unsure how to attach the jpg's.

I was following some of haljacky's tutorials and he made a hill and then tried to drag a RHW piece over it to prove the RHW pieces don't contain slope information. So the RHW would go up and over the hill and follow the terrain of the hill and look silly.

I tried the same thing with the slope mod installed and the RHW piece goes right through the hill and it is flat leaving the raised areas on both sides of it. Similar to using a rail piece.

So, I was wondering if I was doing something wrong.

Thanks for your help.

Mike

Adam,

Here is the pic without the slope mod.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1089.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi359%2Fmikeyb441%2FWithoutSlopeMod-1.jpg&hash=c28a9d7fed6b5a35080104a1a6ee06c2975770e5)

Here is the pic with your slope mod installed

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1089.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi359%2Fmikeyb441%2FAfter-1.jpg&hash=b85e2eedb67b569f558e6cd26da02ec5353870ae)

*forces the creaking, resisting door of the cabinet open* cough, seems I finally have to take this step ;) . Been a long time SC4 player and some years ago stumbled over sc4d, steadily lurking since then, enjoying various MDs and all the fantastic modding projects here.

However, I finally have to ask a question that googling/searching/fiddling did not really solve yet. I'm sure it's simple, but I'm stuck right now.

While I enjoyed your slope mod for quite some time, I'm having a lot of difficulties in getting bridges done for railroads. I do not understand what parameter is missing that denies the bridge from being built. Even if I spent extensive time beforehand leveling the ramp area and making sure both sides are only on slightly different heights it still won't work. I can lay down both ramps without issue (as said, terraformed enough), but dragging a bridge: No-no. And having to get both sides exactly on the same height is not a nice solution, as it involves a lot of work and can be a real pain in a heavily urbanized waterfront.

Trying the rail bridge:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FJLHL0s.jpg&hash=111323830e48b6645a97b45467a670e7baca80e1) (http://i.imgur.com/JLHL0.jpg)

Trying a (small) road bridge:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F9ROB2s.jpg&hash=f6bd2854eb9ede32b4b88a4add646fe9fd53f4e7) (http://i.imgur.com/9ROB2.jpg)

If I don't here from someone I will repost this elsewhere.

SO here's my problem I removed all slope mods from plugins.
Installed Ennedi Slope Mod.

Nothing works. I suppose I'm doing it right. I only put the 620 version in plugins since I'm trying to run RHW 6 tunnel and El-Rail also through a pretty good hill. None of the slopes work street, road highway etc. I have done it one at a time. Started out trying to tunnel for RHW-6 and that didn't happen. Then I tried with El_Rail no way there either.
Then I tried the other ones and even the ave. wouldn't slope.

Could it be that this slope mod has problems with others diggers and raisers? I have Peg's and the NAMs. Or do I have to remove them also?

Any other ideas?

Hi Brad,

when you say that the slope mod doesn't work, do you mean that the slopes still behave like Maxis default (i.e. no slope mod present) or do you mean that you can't get the tunnel built the way you need? Keep in mind that more restrictive/gradual slope mods are more likely to favor tunnel building. I keep BRF's slope mod around just for this reason, as my modified Frankenslopemodster has a tendency to want to either flatten the hill or run up it, but not through it.

I assume you placed the slope mod in a load-last folder, ideally something that loads after the NAM just for insurance? Another option would be to test it out in a region either with no plugins or just the NAM to make sure that there isn't any hidden conflicts, and that the file isn't corrupted.

Digger/Raiser lots shouldn't affect anything, though why you would need more that the NAM's options is beyond me given all of the myriad heights that they offer in both standard and auto-destruct form.

Also, I just remembered that as RHW-6, none of the RHW has tunnel support. This is a hard-coded issue and the NAM can't change it, so all tunnels need to be either OWR-3 (Courtesy of Rivit's Tunnel mod) or changed to MHW or Avenue or something else that's equivalent. You should be able to make El-Rail tunnels though. I've done that before.

Quote from: APSMS on December 11, 2016, 05:41:01 PM
Hi Brad,

when you say that the slope mod doesn't work, do you mean that the slopes still behave like Maxis default (i.e. no slope mod present) or do you mean that you can't get the tunnel built the way you need? Keep in mind that more restrictive/gradual slope mods are more likely to favor tunnel building. I keep BRF's slope mod around just for this reason, as my modified Frankenslopemodster has a tendency to want to either flatten the hill or run up it, but not through it.

I assume you placed the slope mod in a load-last folder, ideally something that loads after the NAM just for insurance? Another option would be to test it out in a region either with no plugins or just the NAM to make sure that there isn't any hidden conflicts, and that the file isn't corrupted.

Digger/Raiser lots shouldn't affect anything, though why you would need more that the NAM's options is beyond me given all of the myriad heights that they offer in both standard and auto-destruct form.

Also, I just remembered that as RHW-6, none of the RHW has tunnel support. This is a hard-coded issue and the NAM can't change it, so all tunnels need to be either OWR-3 (Courtesy of Rivit's Tunnel mod) or changed to MHW or Avenue or something else that's equivalent. You should be able to make El-Rail tunnels though. I've done that before.

The problem is that it doesn't work at all! I've tried with streets, roads, ave., ect. None works.
The guy who produced the Ennedi said it supported the rhw which I thought was odd because everyone else said the same that rhw is hardcoded and cannot change. Maybe he meant to say can transition into it maybe. Don't know why he would say it would and not work. Anyway yes I can do as yoou said MHW to rhw 4 then back to 6 or create a interchange close by. But for me none of it works anyway I tried El-Rail no go. I tried all the options and they just want to go over the hill not through it. The NAM slope mod works ok just can't get el-rail to go through just over. I mostly would use it for tunnels anyways. I like the idea you can make some pretty shallow tunnels with it if I can get it working.

I will try it with a clean plugins folder tomorrow. I do lot so I have a cleaned out plugins for lotting and I will use a fresh region also. But at this point I doubt it will help, but we shall see.
As for the digger/raiser lots I started out with Pegs before I realized the nam had one built in, so I have been using the nams mostly.

I did place the mod in a folder right under plugins with the zzzz in the name if that what you meant.

The game loads underscores after zzzz's, which is why the z___NAM folder will have a tendency to load after every other folder in your plugins. To test for load last order, either place the slope mod in your z___NAM folder, or make a new folder, say "z____LoadLast" (that's 4 underscores), or simply make a file that leads with underscores (although confusingly Windows will display these files first).

I would check out BRF's slope mod over at Simtropolis if you're really just interested in using it for tunnels (although, to be fair, I never really had a problem building tunnels in Vanilla, and with the slope mod I have now, it's a much rarer occurrence). It's the most restrictive on railways, being I think only 50% steeper than RL (which means like a max 3% Railway grade) and in appropriate conditions that slope mod wanted tunnels everywhere.

That being said, the 315 or whatever most restrictive Ennedi mod is going to be the most likely to make tunnels. Also keep in mind that the steeper the slope at the tunnel entrance, the more likely you will trigger the tunnel behavior; a 45^o slope is unlikely to trigger a tunnel in all but the most restrictive of slope mods, whereas a 70 or 80 degree slope is far more likely to trigger that behavior, even if the hill is only marginally higher than the minimum required for a tunnel (~8m with Rivit's tunnel mod, or I think around 18m Vanilla).

"Supports RHW" surely meant that it will create proper slopes when you drag a stretch of RHW, avoiding steep grades. This doesn't mean it creates the ability to use tunnels, since this is something hard-coded into the game. Tunnels for "tall" networks, such as el-rail or monorail, need an extremely steep and tall slope as well. Ideally, use the "raise terrain" tool with a very small brush size, and carefully lift one tile, so it would produce an almost vertical slope. It's a good idea to clean out your plugins, though, and them move back stuff gradually, until you found the potential culprit.

Quote from: Andreas on December 12, 2016, 06:32:29 AM
"Supports RHW" surely meant that it will create proper slopes when you drag a stretch of RHW, avoiding steep grades. This doesn't mean it creates the ability to use tunnels, since this is something hard-coded into the game. Tunnels for "tall" networks, such as el-rail or monorail, need an extremely steep and tall slope as well. Ideally, use the "raise terrain" tool with a very small brush size, and carefully lift one tile, so it would produce an almost vertical slope. It's a good idea to clean out your plugins, though, and them move back stuff gradually, until you found the potential culprit.

OK got it Thanks!

I just finished an experiment. made a sandbox city fresh region. Nothing in plugins except for NAM and I used the BRF slope mod. pics are attached. as you can see it did draw the path for the El-rail through the mesa. But no tunnel entrance. When I show paths it doesn't show it going through. So not sure what I'm doing wrong.

That's not the in-game el-rail, but some override that comes with the NAM. I presume that there are no alternative tunnel portal models included, though. The tunnel might be functional after all, but the visual appearance is a bit off, naturally. ;)

Quote from: Andreas on December 12, 2016, 03:22:26 PM
That's not the in-game el-rail, but some override that comes with the NAM. I presume that there are no alternative tunnel portal models included, though. The tunnel might be functional after all, but the visual appearance is a bit off, naturally. ;)

Don't know actually. I have NAM version 35 installed and pretty much go with the default install. I will take a look and see if there are any alternatives.

Well at this point I think I will just work around and hills with the El-Rail. Too me it doesn't look very good the way it is. Looks is what I'm looking for. At least there is the workaround for rhw (MHW-RHW).

I know the NAM team is busy and have a lot of things to work on I doubt this is one of them. For me it's just not worth going any further with attempts.

Thanks for your help!!!!

You're a busy guy! being a member of so many teams that are fairly busy and helping us players out to boot.

Well, right now, I'm only active in the SFBT, but I'll try to help where I can. ;) It looks like you installed the "Alternative Elevated Rail Implementation" (have a look at the NAM readme, there is a file that explains the alternative components), so you should run the NAM installer again and remove the checkmark for this component.

Quote from: Andreas on December 12, 2016, 05:00:08 PM
Well, right now, I'm only active in the SFBT, but I'll try to help where I can. ;) It looks like you installed the "Alternative Elevated Rail Implementation" (have a look at the NAM readme, there is a file that explains the alternative components), so you should run the NAM installer again and remove the checkmark for this component.

Thanks Andreas!  I will check that out today.

Brad

Quote from: bradf_50 on December 13, 2016, 10:44:52 AM

Quote from: Andreas on December 12, 2016, 05:00:08 PM
Well, right now, I'm only active in the SFBT, but I'll try to help where I can. ;) It looks like you installed the "Alternative Elevated Rail Implementation" (have a look at the NAM readme, there is a file that explains the alternative components), so you should run the NAM installer again and remove the checkmark for this component.

Thanks Andreas!  I will check that out today.

Brad

Hey Andreas

Well I did as you asked. Re-install NAM 35 and unchecked alternate el-rail. Checked it in a sandbox and also in play and ended up looking just like as before as in the images I sent you. Actually I don't see any difference. But my powers of observation aren't that great anyway. But it looks as before. It runs the tunnel through at least it looks like it, but no tunnel entrance. Turning on draw paths doesn't show a break so it probably would fly but looks wise not. This is using the BRF slope mod. I get the same results using the Ennedi slope mod also.

What I don't understand is that all the other networks including Monorail work as advertised. So I'm at this point clueless.

Just to chime in here, use of the Alternate El-Rail mod itself does not prevent a tunnel from appearing. If El-Rail supports tunnels, then those tunnels will appear with any El-Rail override mods, such as the alternate version in NAM. If such a mod didn't have it's own custom tunnels, you'd see the Maxis default instead.

The long and short of this problem is that tunnels are not the best-supported item in the game. Many networks seem to have tunnels, but if you see the black square, that doesn't simply mean the models are missing. Usually that also means the code for a functioning tunnel is missing too. By and large here is a list of networks with tunnel support, which will never change, since we can't add or fix them:

• Road
• Avenue
• MHY L0 & L2
• Rail
• Monorail

When considering override networks, you must think about the base network being overridden. For example, if you have the Maxis Highway Override installed, because that's based on MHY, which has tunnel support, this mod can support tunnels. Whereas RHW, which is based on the unused DirtRoad network, can't support tunnels.

I've just tested in the vanilla game, but no tunnels exist for El-Rail, which is pretty much what I expected to see. Of course, such problems have brought about creative solutions over the years. We have FLUPs portals, NETWORK->Subway transition lots and other such useful mods to help get around the game's limitations. In the case of El-Rail, I'd use an On-Slope transition to GLR and then connect into this tunnel (http://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/14932-hillside-glr-to-subway-transition-by-morifari/) lot from Morifari.

Quote from: mgb204 on December 13, 2016, 09:09:44 PM
Just to chime in here, use of the Alternate El-Rail mod itself does not prevent a tunnel from appearing. If El-Rail supports tunnels, then those tunnels will appear with any El-Rail override mods, such as the alternate version in NAM. If such a mod didn't have it's own custom tunnels, you'd see the Maxis default instead.

The long and short of this problem is that tunnels are not the best-supported item in the game. Many networks seem to have tunnels, but if you see the black square, that doesn't simply mean the models are missing. Usually that also means the code for a functioning tunnel is missing too. By and large here is a list of networks with tunnel support, which will never change, since we can't add or fix them:

• Road
• Avenue
• MHY L0 & L2
• Rail
• Monorail

When considering override networks, you must think about the base network being overridden. For example, if you have the Maxis Highway Override installed, because that's based on MHY, which has tunnel support, this mod can support tunnels. Whereas RHW, which is based on the unused DirtRoad network, can't support tunnels.

I've just tested in the vanilla game, but no tunnels exist for El-Rail, which is pretty much what I expected to see. Of course, such problems have brought about creative solutions over the years. We have FLUPs portals, NETWORK->Subway transition lots and other such useful mods to help get around the game's limitations. In the case of El-Rail, I'd use an On-Slope transition to GLR and then connect into this tunnel (http://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/14932-hillside-glr-to-subway-transition-by-morifari/) lot from Morifari.

Thanks! Now we know for sure now. It was not looking good anyway. I'll check out that lot and transition and see how it looks.

I didn't check things in my game, but yeah, now that mgb204 mentions it, el-rail never supported tunnels in the first place, unlike monorail. The aforementioned "tunnel lot" should do the trick, though, it's basically the same thing as the in-game el-rail-to-subway converter. :)

Funny thing, I didn't remember either; I do remember that I thought there was an El-Rail to Subway hillside lot (recalling that El-rail lacks subways, my use of this lot suddenly makes sense). I could be mistaking it for a monorail version, though. My memory is fuzzy and I haven't properly played the game in a while.

Monorail does support tunnels, I wonder if they changed their mind over the EL-Rail, figuring it can connect to subway, so it's not so important? Shame though more networks don't support proper tunnels, it one of those very inflexible parts of the game :(.

Quote from: mgb204 on December 14, 2016, 09:59:02 PM
Monorail does support tunnels, I wonder if they changed their mind over the EL-Rail, figuring it can connect to subway, so it's not so important? Shame though more networks don't support proper tunnels, it one of those very inflexible parts of the game :(.

Agreed it's a shame they didn't make el-rail tunnels. But I guess If I think about it BART in the SF/Bay Area doesn't go elevated when a hill shows up they transitioned it to subway. Most of Oakland and SF stations are underground/subway. Then it transitions back up to Elevated. So I guess that makes sense, just doesn't make much sense for no tunnels for El-Rail. Oh well I may either transition to subway then go through the hills and transition back. I would just go full subway and skip El-Rail but then it wouldn't be as realistic as I would prefer.

Thanks you guys for the info! At least now I won't waste anymore time with it.

Hello guys, I use Gobias "Berner Oberland Texture Mod". Now my problem is this, unfortunately I can not use the "Diagonal Jagged Edges Mod". What options do I have to make it usable? Can I solve the problem myself, or does it need deeper knowledge? If I can adjust the mod myself, is there a manual?

As I think you've figured out, because such settings are part of the same exemplar/file, only one such file can be loaded. All this means is that rather than having multiple files, you must take the "master" file and edit some values, in effect merging the properties of both files into one.

There is an excellent guide here (http://community.simtropolis.com/omnibus/simcity-4/tutorials/know-your-terrain-a-simple-guide-to-making-the-most-of-your-terrain-mod-r250/) on modifying the Terrain properties, which includes step-by-step instructions for editing the DJEM settings.