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Civil engineering support thread: slope mods, other tools and issues

Started by Ennedi, February 14, 2008, 03:53:45 AM

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lasa

gays,Is it necessary to quit the game when I want to switch any one version?

blade2k5


Berethor ♦ beskhu3epnm ♦ blade2k5 ♦ dmscopio
dedgren ♦ Emilin ♦ Ennedi ♦ jplumbley ♦ moganite ♦ M4346 ♦ nichter85 ♦ papab2000 ♦
Shadow Assassin ♦ Tarkus ♦ wouanagaine

Old fisherman never die, they just smell that way.

fe_lipe

Hello guys !

I've been using slope mod for some months and it's been great. The mod is amazing and you guys did a great work.

However, I'm experiencing some errors. It seems like slope mod is working fine, but only for RHW and streets. Road and Rail work with maxis parameters for slopes. I considered some errors that appeared in this thread, but I don't think they have anything related to my problem.

So, I'd be glad if you could help me. Once more, congrats for such great work.  ;D

fe_lipe


antbrax1

I need some help.  I'm trying to use the hole digger lots and they just won't work.  I have completely leveled an area 8x8 and I can't get it to work on any one lot.  All I get is the "unsuitable to build network" error.  I'm very frustrated.  Any help?

Thanks

mtg


mikeyb44

Working with RHW building a diamond exchange.  Tried both smooth and medium slope mods, but everytime I drag out a highway from a ramp, it says it is unsuitable for building.

It is acting like putting a rail line over a hill.  It flattens the area.  Without the mod, you can drag road and rail over a hill and it would look unrealistic. The mod seems to try to flatten any raised ground.


Any ideas?

BigSlark

How long are your ramps, Mikey? If you could share a picture with us, I'm sure someone will be able to help.

Cheers,
Kevin

mikeyb44

Kevin, ramps are not too long.  It seems like when I have the ENN_SlopeMod_Medium315 plugin installed, everytime I use any piece of RHW, it wants to flatten the area.

Not sure what I am doing wrong. I was watching some tutorials by Asteconn and he would use a piece of rail line to flatten out hilly areas and bumps.  The RHW pieces are behaving the same way. They just want to flatten what is in their way.

Help is appreciated.

mikeyb44

I just watched this video again http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftaX14yRcBA

After I use the ground lifter to do some terraforming, whatever piece of RWH I use flattens the land.  In the video he uses a piece of rail line because he said that RHW did not have slope information so the piece could climb to a 45 degree angle.

This video is a year old, so maybe I missed something.

Am I supposed to remove the SlopeMod plugin after I raise the ground? I was using ENN_SlopeMod_Medium315

and then I changed it to smooth but every piece still flattens the ground?

Any ideas?

mikeyb44

OK, I think I found my problem.  I replaced the ENN_SlopeMod_Medium315 with

BRF_TunnelAndSlopeMod-bJERONI.dat and it seems like the rest of the tools work as discussed in the tutorial.

Is there a problem with the  ENN_SlopeMod_Medium315  mod?

Thanks

Ennedi

Quote from: mikeyb44 on December 09, 2010, 02:56:33 PM
OK, I think I found my problem.  I replaced the ENN_SlopeMod_Medium315 with

BRF_TunnelAndSlopeMod-bJERONI.dat and it seems like the rest of the tools work as discussed in the tutorial.

Is there a problem with the  ENN_SlopeMod_Medium315  mod?

Thanks

No. There isn't any problem with the ENN_Slope Mod_Medium315  :D

The only thing which can cause a problem is that you haven't enough place to make your ramps.

The shape of the network is determined by (mainly) two parameters: Max Slope Along Network and Max Slope Change.
The Max Slope along Network tells how steep can be your network. When you drag your road (rail, RHW etc...) from a flat area to another flat area lying lower, your network goes down, reaches the maximum steepness, then goes down till it touches the terrain on the lower area, then it becomes horizontal. If the Max Slope Along Network is smaller, you need more tiles to reach that lower area.
The Max Slope Change tells how big can be an angle difference between two neighbouring network tiles. If it is big (for example equal to the Max Slope Along Network), the network reaches the maximum steepness immediately, but it looks angled and unrealistic. Default Maxis networks have such settings. If the Max Slope Change is small, the network looks smooth, but it needs more tiles to cover the given level difference.

Look please at my message in this thread - page 1. You will find there a table with a comparation of Max Slope Along Network and Max Slope Change values.

If you want to build an interchange, most probably you have two flat areas one 15m higher than another. If you have my slope mod version 315 installed and if you start from the higher plane, you will need not less than 10 or 11 tiles to reach the lower plane. In other case you will get a "unsuitable for building a network" communicate.
If you don't have so much space, you can try to use my mod in version 620, you will need about 8 tiles to make a RHW ramp for 15m height difference.

And remember: you can use various slope mods to make various fragments of your transit network! It means that you can use the smooth version to create the basic layout, then remove the slope mod and replace it by another, less demanding one to connect networks in "problematic" places. Previous effects of your work will not be destroyed in that case  :). I discussed it in this thread too, try to find that message.

I hope it will help, if not, please inform us here.

Best regards
Adam
New Horizons Productions
Berethor - beskhu3epnm - blade2k5 - dmscopio - dedgren - Emilin - Ennedi
jplumbley - moganite - M4346 - nichter85 - papab2000 - Shadow Assassin - Tarkus - wouanagaine

mikeyb44

Adam,

Thank you for your reply and explanation.

I wish I could provide screen shots of my problem, but unsure how to attach the jpg's.

I was following some of haljacky's tutorials and he made a hill and then tried to drag a RHW piece over it to prove the RHW pieces don't contain slope information. So the RHW would go up and over the hill and follow the terrain of the hill and look silly.

I tried the same thing with the slope mod installed and the RHW piece goes right through the hill and it is flat leaving the raised areas on both sides of it. Similar to using a rail piece.

So, I was wondering if I was doing something wrong.

Thanks for your help.

Mike

mikeyb44

Adam,

Here is the pic without the slope mod.



Here is the pic with your slope mod installed


WGPSenshi

*forces the creaking, resisting door of the cabinet open* cough, seems I finally have to take this step ;) . Been a long time SC4 player and some years ago stumbled over sc4d, steadily lurking since then, enjoying various MDs and all the fantastic modding projects here.

However, I finally have to ask a question that googling/searching/fiddling did not really solve yet. I'm sure it's simple, but I'm stuck right now.

While I enjoyed your slope mod for quite some time, I'm having a lot of difficulties in getting bridges done for railroads. I do not understand what parameter is missing that denies the bridge from being built. Even if I spent extensive time beforehand leveling the ramp area and making sure both sides are only on slightly different heights it still won't work. I can lay down both ramps without issue (as said, terraformed enough), but dragging a bridge: No-no. And having to get both sides exactly on the same height is not a nice solution, as it involves a lot of work and can be a real pain in a heavily urbanized waterfront.

Trying the rail bridge:


Trying a (small) road bridge:

bradf_50

If I don't here from someone I will repost this elsewhere.

SO here's my problem I removed all slope mods from plugins.
Installed Ennedi Slope Mod.

Nothing works. I suppose I'm doing it right. I only put the 620 version in plugins since I'm trying to run RHW 6 tunnel and El-Rail also through a pretty good hill. None of the slopes work street, road highway etc. I have done it one at a time. Started out trying to tunnel for RHW-6 and that didn't happen. Then I tried with El_Rail no way there either.
Then I tried the other ones and even the ave. wouldn't slope.

Could it be that this slope mod has problems with others diggers and raisers? I have Peg's and the NAMs. Or do I have to remove them also?

Any other ideas?

APSMS

Hi Brad,

when you say that the slope mod doesn't work, do you mean that the slopes still behave like Maxis default (i.e. no slope mod present) or do you mean that you can't get the tunnel built the way you need? Keep in mind that more restrictive/gradual slope mods are more likely to favor tunnel building. I keep BRF's slope mod around just for this reason, as my modified Frankenslopemodster has a tendency to want to either flatten the hill or run up it, but not through it.

I assume you placed the slope mod in a load-last folder, ideally something that loads after the NAM just for insurance? Another option would be to test it out in a region either with no plugins or just the NAM to make sure that there isn't any hidden conflicts, and that the file isn't corrupted.

Digger/Raiser lots shouldn't affect anything, though why you would need more that the NAM's options is beyond me given all of the myriad heights that they offer in both standard and auto-destruct form.

Also, I just remembered that as RHW-6, none of the RHW has tunnel support. This is a hard-coded issue and the NAM can't change it, so all tunnels need to be either OWR-3 (Courtesy of Rivit's Tunnel mod) or changed to MHW or Avenue or something else that's equivalent. You should be able to make El-Rail tunnels though. I've done that before.
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

My Mayor Diary San Diego: A Reinterpretation

bradf_50

Quote from: APSMS on December 11, 2016, 05:41:01 PM
Hi Brad,

when you say that the slope mod doesn't work, do you mean that the slopes still behave like Maxis default (i.e. no slope mod present) or do you mean that you can't get the tunnel built the way you need? Keep in mind that more restrictive/gradual slope mods are more likely to favor tunnel building. I keep BRF's slope mod around just for this reason, as my modified Frankenslopemodster has a tendency to want to either flatten the hill or run up it, but not through it.

I assume you placed the slope mod in a load-last folder, ideally something that loads after the NAM just for insurance? Another option would be to test it out in a region either with no plugins or just the NAM to make sure that there isn't any hidden conflicts, and that the file isn't corrupted.

Digger/Raiser lots shouldn't affect anything, though why you would need more that the NAM's options is beyond me given all of the myriad heights that they offer in both standard and auto-destruct form.

Also, I just remembered that as RHW-6, none of the RHW has tunnel support. This is a hard-coded issue and the NAM can't change it, so all tunnels need to be either OWR-3 (Courtesy of Rivit's Tunnel mod) or changed to MHW or Avenue or something else that's equivalent. You should be able to make El-Rail tunnels though. I've done that before.

The problem is that it doesn't work at all! I've tried with streets, roads, ave., ect. None works.
The guy who produced the Ennedi said it supported the rhw which I thought was odd because everyone else said the same that rhw is hardcoded and cannot change. Maybe he meant to say can transition into it maybe. Don't know why he would say it would and not work. Anyway yes I can do as yoou said MHW to rhw 4 then back to 6 or create a interchange close by. But for me none of it works anyway I tried El-Rail no go. I tried all the options and they just want to go over the hill not through it. The NAM slope mod works ok just can't get el-rail to go through just over. I mostly would use it for tunnels anyways. I like the idea you can make some pretty shallow tunnels with it if I can get it working.

I will try it with a clean plugins folder tomorrow. I do lot so I have a cleaned out plugins for lotting and I will use a fresh region also. But at this point I doubt it will help, but we shall see.
As for the digger/raiser lots I started out with Pegs before I realized the nam had one built in, so I have been using the nams mostly.

I did place the mod in a folder right under plugins with the zzzz in the name if that what you meant.

APSMS

The game loads underscores after zzzz's, which is why the z___NAM folder will have a tendency to load after every other folder in your plugins. To test for load last order, either place the slope mod in your z___NAM folder, or make a new folder, say "z____LoadLast" (that's 4 underscores), or simply make a file that leads with underscores (although confusingly Windows will display these files first).

I would check out BRF's slope mod over at Simtropolis if you're really just interested in using it for tunnels (although, to be fair, I never really had a problem building tunnels in Vanilla, and with the slope mod I have now, it's a much rarer occurrence). It's the most restrictive on railways, being I think only 50% steeper than RL (which means like a max 3% Railway grade) and in appropriate conditions that slope mod wanted tunnels everywhere.

That being said, the 315 or whatever most restrictive Ennedi mod is going to be the most likely to make tunnels. Also keep in mind that the steeper the slope at the tunnel entrance, the more likely you will trigger the tunnel behavior; a 45o slope is unlikely to trigger a tunnel in all but the most restrictive of slope mods, whereas a 70 or 80 degree slope is far more likely to trigger that behavior, even if the hill is only marginally higher than the minimum required for a tunnel (~8m with Rivit's tunnel mod, or I think around 18m Vanilla).
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

My Mayor Diary San Diego: A Reinterpretation

Andreas

"Supports RHW" surely meant that it will create proper slopes when you drag a stretch of RHW, avoiding steep grades. This doesn't mean it creates the ability to use tunnels, since this is something hard-coded into the game. Tunnels for "tall" networks, such as el-rail or monorail, need an extremely steep and tall slope as well. Ideally, use the "raise terrain" tool with a very small brush size, and carefully lift one tile, so it would produce an almost vertical slope. It's a good idea to clean out your plugins, though, and them move back stuff gradually, until you found the potential culprit.
Andreas