Why do some segments of the traffic network seem to not be recognized by the games "TRAFFIC" network image?
Example:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg175.imageshack.us%2Fimg175%2F5109%2Fnonetworkfp1.jpg&hash=4c06f6644f4d93b0fef16912783cdb54600db765)
Note: If you query this, there is traffic continuing through it.
I suppose this isn't a "problem" but I'm curioius.. There may be game problems, but I'm not aware of it.
You mean that short stretch between the GLR station and the tennis court? It looks like you attached a diagonal puzzle piece (?) to the straight station, which is probably making the paths invalid.
Well I man BOTH that stretch AND the straight stretch (none of them are green.. this suggests to me that the "traffic congestion" engine doesn't recognise them as part of the traffic network. With respect to the graphic anomally its purely cosmetic. The pieces work perfectly (ie traffic is continuous on all parts). The reason it "looks odd" is that there is no piece that will fit in that location (try it yourself ;) )
All parts function properly and conduct el-rail/glr traffic.
Well, you could bulldoze said tennis court and move the merge of the main and the side tracks one tile farther from the station. This would mean to move the street crossing as well - or alternatively you could use a 90° s-curve to wind the side track back. Not as pretty, but it might fix the graphical glitch.
Did you let the game run first? It's possible that the congestion graph hasn't been updated if you recently did that stretch of road.
You might have to click on the offending stretch of GLR and see if it fixes the problem, too. As Andreas said, it might be a good idea to make the curve longer so that it looks right. I know that this current layout would work functionally, because of the way the game implements the algorithms for the simulator.
You might even have to rebuild that section of the line sans station, see if it shows up correctly?
I'm aware that I can remove the graphical glitch if it bothered me enough, but that isn't my point at all. Or are you suggesting that that is the CAUSE of the "no network" issue? As I said.. traffic is perfectly happy with it, the station is perfectly happy with it, and the route query is happy with it.
Maybe you'll be happier with this example.. no "glitches" here. Still same problem. ;)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg219.imageshack.us%2Fimg219%2F8075%2Fnonetwork1ar6.jpg&hash=7478954efe9ac0d50ddeae1b34fb2fbcde5887cf)
Quote from: Shadow Assassin on January 24, 2008, 02:34:29 PM
Did you let the game run first? It's possible that the congestion graph hasn't been updated if you recently did that stretch of road.
That is after probably 2 or 3 yrs of running on "normal" (or turtle is it called?). Are you suggesting they need to be rebuilt even though they properly conduct traffic?
Don't fix it if it is not broken :)
Does it happen only on GLR ?
Does it happen only on or near diagonal / crossing ?
lol.. now there ya go being practical!!! ;)
That is interesting... I wonder if the street intersection piece is the cause of all this issue, since it seems that the intersections that cross the GLR in those areas are street intersections.
Does the DrawPaths cheat show anything wrong? [It probably wouldn't, seeing as traffic moves normally]
Otherwise, do what Wou says. :P
Quote from: wouanagaine on January 24, 2008, 02:46:36 PM
Does it happen only on GLR ?
Does it happen only on or near diagonal / crossing ?
I'll look around the region and let you all know. I've only noticed GLR, but I can't answer with authority.
Quote from: Shadow Assassin on January 24, 2008, 02:48:20 PM
That is interesting... I wonder if the street intersection piece is the cause of all this issue, since it seems that the intersections that cross the GLR in those areas are street intersections.
Hmm.. I'll look around the region to see what else I can observe
QuoteDoes the DrawPaths cheat show anything wrong? [It probably wouldn't, seeing as traffic moves normally]
I don't know what it is, so I can't answer that question
QuoteOtherwise, do what Wou says. :P
hehe
edit: I will say that that station shown in those pic's are all "puzzle piece" stations while in general my network is "drag" type. So the area immediately around the station is made up of some pieces. ALL of the "unlighted" squares however are not puzzle pieces (ie both puzzle and drag types are in the "unlighted" area) Whether that has anything to do with it or not I can't say.
OK I've poked around the city and have the following examples:
wrt GLR.. yes all of them are GLR EXCEPT this one which is a ROAD OVER RAILS onslope section
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg184.imageshack.us%2Fimg184%2F7686%2Fnonetwork3ep7.jpg&hash=a59a4bb6dc6af9c8cbc4525ff599730a45f66099)
And this AVENUE over RAIL section
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg175.imageshack.us%2Fimg175%2F3563%2Fnonetwork0aa3.jpg&hash=6e5a77625335fe8e2cef14ea04e2afed0efd82fd)
In the following you'll see all kinds of conditions.. straight, curved, at road intersections, not at intersections, etc
This is the longest stretch
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg205.imageshack.us%2Fimg205%2F2701%2Fnonetwork4vp2.jpg&hash=a1c2b906f7e30edc9cc5e9d3e9ce6778d98be015)
The shortest 3
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg205.imageshack.us%2Fimg205%2F1152%2Fnonetwork2cz9.jpg&hash=576c452b0e87286a50d2ccfae15c80d689a0f3f8)
and
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg184.imageshack.us%2Fimg184%2F1507%2Fnonetwork8pz7.jpg&hash=08def30588676797d356cb98d4103ee966766471)
and
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg299.imageshack.us%2Fimg299%2F6783%2Fnonetwork7bk8.jpg&hash=8c5d639dbc616e43429a22c57994acbdfd0fc515)
Various others follow
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg205.imageshack.us%2Fimg205%2F4786%2Fnonetwork6gf0.jpg&hash=b6685931e6f35c10200009a87184768b15b662c4)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg184.imageshack.us%2Fimg184%2F1684%2Fnonetwork5ji5.jpg&hash=396bb801e70a84ef53d9f6b5ae9f7b6385966bc6)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg299.imageshack.us%2Fimg299%2F9080%2Fnonetwork9kn9.jpg&hash=65241d5fb31fe34b7d2b3e2e304c6cd570dcc9e0)
I'm fairly sure it in some way relates to mixing puzzle and drag pieces, but I can't identify why. Unfortunately I cannot identify, once it's placed, which tiles are puzzle and which are drag. I may try building some just to test this. I know this PROBABLY has nothing to do with the function of the game, but now I'm curious.. LOL
Hmm, you could install the old GLR textures that were released last June as an optional plugin. They only affect the GLR puzzle pieces, but not the draggable sections, so you could easily see what's a puzzle piece and what not.
That's a good idea.. I'll check into how to do that..
Has to do with the Interchange RUL & the way these particular items are coded/mapped. The other half of this (I presume-I've never actually bothered to closely examine the issue), is whether or not the item in question has its equivalent bit-flag code in its Network specific RUL file for each tile coded. Same applies for congestion/capacity maps. Same issue exists with the games stock standard highway cloverleafs.
Edit:
On a side note: there is probably more to than just this though, but the above would typically hold true, since the games stock standard ground/elevated highway exhibit the same thing for half the ends of the highways.
2nd Edit:
Sorry, my above comment is based on the fact that what you've posted is all puzzle pieces? Is this not the case?
As is mentioned in the posts above, they are mixed puzzle/drags. That was the entire point of Andreas' last post.
Quote from: Andreas on January 24, 2008, 04:57:13 PM
Hmm, you could install the old GLR textures that were released last June as an optional plugin. They only affect the GLR puzzle pieces, but not the draggable sections, so you could easily see what's a puzzle piece and what not.
Andreas, can you give me a link to that old GLR texture install file. I know that I had it in the past, but I guess I've discarded it. I looked through all my stuff and can't find a copy of it. If you'll give me a link or send me a copy, I'll put it in and take a look at what is what.. thanks.
It's on the LEX: http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=854
lol.. I didn't think of it as being a separate release.. thanks.. :-[
Ok. I've installed the texture mod and took a look at the city.
It SEEMS like the Tropod hypothesis is basically correct. In every case where the "unrecognized" transit coloring occurs, the pieces are puzzle plops, not draggables. The exceptions seem to be pieces that cross other transit .. I assume since the other traffic mode had to be accommodated that the problem did not show up.
The only other interesting observation is that there can be puzzle pieces that ARE reconized by the "color algorithm". This seems to be (that I can find.. can't claim a thorough test) that the piece is a SINGLE puzzle piece with draggables OR a "transit crossing" piece on either side.
Another interesting phenomenon is that draggables convert to "puzzle" pieces in a number of cases where puzzle interchanges are forced.. This probably is in the cases where there were not 5 pieces adjacent to make the "stable drag" condition.. I'm just guessing here. I mention this because I know I made the parts using "drag" construction, but they show now as puzzles.
I've taken some added pics with the texture mod installed so those interested can take a look for themselves. This isn't an exact duplicate of those posted above, but are representative.
2-tile piece leading into a "puzzle-type" station
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg518.imageshack.us%2Fimg518%2F8559%2Fnonetwork2tmj2.jpg&hash=818d5333bed556458132718144d27113948e3427)
More lead-in's to "puzzle-type" station
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg518.imageshack.us%2Fimg518%2F1148%2Fnonetwork3tpj8.jpg&hash=ea2b00270cd15e5f7a4b575b4175228983e9e46d)
Overview showing a bit of everything ;) By the way I KNOW I made almost ALL of that long section out of draggable pieces. Why they reverted to puzzle pieces I don't know. Only the parts immediately near the stations were originally puzzle pieces.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg135.imageshack.us%2Fimg135%2F8805%2Fnonetwork4tkk8.jpg&hash=a37247e47b5ebc527369e8c680fb38eb4e16dd6c)
The "GLR straight single" exception
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg518.imageshack.us%2Fimg518%2F4695%2Fnonetwork1tlj3.jpg&hash=00de0c69639d5ff5ccba2479b53fb3ba54a1b6b7)
The other exception .. the "GLR T"
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg135.imageshack.us%2Fimg135%2F6393%2Fnonetwork6tik7.jpg&hash=8adc82dfea40bd7fda2c3c8e6f41b278528e76d1)
Regarding the fact that all those parts are built of puzzle pieces, I think I can explain that phenomenon. It's because the GLR puzzle pieces were modded in a particular way, namely rather like a single lightrail tile, but not like a straight tile. Perhaps a bit confusing, sorry. ;) However, I don't know why they have modded them like that. Maybe because they can't cause a crash to desktop then, which would be a high advantage.
Quote from: SC4BOY on February 02, 2008, 02:32:27 PM
Overview showing a bit of everything ;) By the way I KNOW I made almost ALL of that long section out of draggable pieces. Why they reverted to puzzle pieces I don't know. Only the parts immediately near the stations were originally puzzle pieces.
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/8805/nonetwork4tkk8.jpg
Haha, that's funny. $%Grinno$% But it is simply not possible that a dragged stretch of GLR reverts back to puzzle pieces. ;)
Quote from: SC4BOY on February 02, 2008, 02:32:27 PM
The "GLR straight single" exception
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/4695/nonetwork1tlj3.jpg
This is not a usual straight GLR puzzle piece, but it's one of the starter puzzle pieces which are modded differently. That's why the congestion shows up on that tile.
Quote from: SC4BOY on February 02, 2008, 02:32:27 PM
The other exception .. the "GLR T"
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/6393/nonetwork6tik7.jpg
I assume that the GLR T intersection puzzle piece had to be set up "correctly" as a T-intersection, in order that the paths and especially UDI worked properly. However, this piece can cause a CTD then.
I hope all that makes sense now. ::)
Quote from: memo on February 03, 2008, 01:35:56 AM
Haha, that's funny. $%Grinno$% But it is simply not possible that a dragged stretch of GLR reverts back to puzzle pieces. ;)
I learned long ago to never discourse with someone who speaks in mocking absolutes.. ;)
I do thank you though for repeating Tropod's points and expanding others.
Ok, I think this also explains why the old GLR puzzle pieces didn't show up in the region traffic view. The draggable GLR lines do so, and also the GLR-in-Avenue pieces. Anyway, now that you can see where you used puzzle pieces, it should be easy to replace most of them with draggable GLR, so the majority of peculiarities should go away. :)
Quote from: SC4BOY on February 03, 2008, 03:22:07 AM
I learned long ago to never discourse with someone who speaks in mocking absolutes.. ;)
I'm sorry. I didn't intend to mock you. Though, it's not possible because draggable GLR is very different from puzzle pieces. It's not called "puzzle drag" in terms of dragging puzzle pieces, but only because you start with a puzzle piece and continue with a normal stretch of EL-Rail which converts to textures that only look like puzzle pieces, but they are still the dragged stretch of EL-Rail itself, though.
Quote from: Andreas on February 03, 2008, 03:43:23 AM
Ok, I think this also explains why the old GLR puzzle pieces didn't show up in the region traffic view. The draggable GLR lines do so, and also the GLR-in-Avenue pieces. Anyway, now that you can see where you used puzzle pieces, it should be easy to replace most of them with draggable GLR, so the majority of peculiarities should go away. :)
Yes while I had the mod installed, I did take the opportunity to do just that.. Cut the number of puzzle pieces down considerably.. :) There still are a few things the draggable just won't do, but I did what I could.
hmmm.. I'm looking at the GLR Old Texture "uninstall instructions"
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg518.imageshack.us%2Fimg518%2F2130%2Fglrtextureik5.jpg&hash=e45d941dc85bc180c289e936eff52b7affdc9097)
What in the world does deleting bridges have to do with the removal of the textures? Am I confused?
Whoops, looks like I forgot to change that section - I used my NAM Additonal Bridges HTML template for creating the readme file for the GLR textures. Of course you won't need to bulldoze any bridges, since the textures are changed "on the fly". Thanks for pointing out the issue, though, I shall fix that some day. :)
Quote from: Andreas on February 03, 2008, 12:33:36 PM
Whoops, looks like I forgot to change that section - I used my NAM Additonal Bridges HTML template for creating the readme file for the GLR textures. Of course you won't need to bulldoze any bridges, since the textures are changed "on the fly". Thanks for pointing out the issue, though, I shall fix that some day. :)
:D
Well, at least someone read the readme. :P