The FrankU and Nexis CO-OP

[gn_leugim]

drooling!! wil this update the previious farm sets? same IDs and so on?

[jmelvin]

Frank and Fred,

Fantastic work on all of this.

One comment about the fields. I downloaded the set over at the STEX and noticed one thing. All of the building exemplars show a growth stage of 255. I'm not sure of all of the implications of that. I think a growth stage 4 or greater needs to have a water supply. I remember reading some comments in a thread when Diggis was working on his Spirulina fields where a growth stage of 255 for fields could cause problems. I'm not sure if this will keep the fields from growing or lead to no-water zots. I make it a habit when downloading fields to change the growth stage of the building exemplar for the field itself to show growth stage 1.

I'm glad to see that someone is adding other farm implements to the game. We've got several tractors, wagons, and grain haulers from various sources. PEG added a plow (that I think looks more like a disc). JMeyers gave us a grain elevator. Simgoober gave us a couple of nice harvesters (one with the front attachment for corn and another with the attachment for harvesting soybeans and wheat). That's just mentioning a few. But I've really missed not having balers, planters, and some others that I see you will have in your set of props.

As a side note, I've been using Google Maps lately to look at farming areas across the US. The current maps for different parts of the country are for different time periods. I've spotted fields where corn and soybeans were being harvested and you can zoom in enough to make out the different style harvester attachments for the two crops. As an example, there is a corn harvest shown for address 25370 215th st, Dallas Center, IA. The map is showing that part of the country in probably mid- to late-October. The field directly across the road I'm pretty sure is a soybean field that is close to ripe. Diagonally to the southwest a farm on 230th St has a soybean field being harvested. I've managed to find a field in North Dakota where flax had been cut and piled into windrows, a field in Idaho where it's summer (probably around August) and wheat is being harvested. The satellite images for North Dakota a short distance NW of Hazelton show fields to the west sometime around August and the fields to the East sometime in mid- to late-October. The trees in Hazelton itself show a bit of fall color but you can find a farm on 63rd St North and West of town where most of the trees in the farmyard are colored for probably mid-summer while some of the trees in the windbreak east of the buildings show some fall color. I spotted a field being harvested in the summer area near there and that would be the right time for a wheat harvest. I've managed to pick out hay being cut and baled in several states. I've also spotted fields being plowed shortly after a corn harvest and others shortly after a soybean harvest.

I've toyed around with doing a screen capture of a fully zoomed in satellite map on several of the fields and then opened photoshop opened a new file which opens sized for the screen capture. I paste in the captured image. I then draw a rectangle around an interesting part of the field, copy that, open a new image and paste what was just copied. I set so the next time I use the rectangle tool will be 128x128pixels then use the rectangle tool to select a part of the field. I copy the new selection, open a new image and paste, do a little unsharp mask and save the result as a BMP file. SC4Tool can easily turn the BMPs into textures. Following are a few of the resulting images:

ripe soybeans:

harvested soybeans:

ripe corn:

harvested corn:

ripe sorghum:

harvested sorghum:

I'm thinking of making some farms for my own use that would be sized somewhere around 8x10 with no buildings that would capture the look of a field in the middle of being harvested that might look something like:



I've managed to get 128x128 BMPs that could be used to make textures that could be used as puzzle pieces for fields of different types (i.e., hay, corn, soybeans, wheat) being harvested. If you guys are interested I could let you have copies of the BMPs or I could provide you a set of textures using my assigned texture IID range.

Jim M

Edited to try to get the images to show.

[FrankU]

Hi Jim,

Thanks for your elaborate post. A lot of interesting things yuou show. Your project will be interesting to follow.

About the growth stage: are you certain you did not look in the ploppable lots? These always have growth stage = 255 when made by SC4-Pim (or Pim-X if you perfer that name). As far as I have tested the farm fields grow when needed: when the farm lot grows. You know, the fields do not grow by themselves but only when linked to a farm lot. My set does not contain farm lots. These will be in a separate upload somewhere this autumn, I hope.

Furthermore: there will be an heavily edited and updated version of the farm fields available somewhere this month, I guess. This depends on replies by BarbyW or another LEX scrutineer.... Maybe you yourself? I would like the set to be my first official upload to the LEX.

If you are going to make farms that size indeed you should make farm lots of that size. And if there are no buildings on it I'd make them Stage 1 farms.

And another answer:

@ Kelis and gn_leugim
The Version 2 of my farm fields set contains all farm fields from Version 1 plus some new ones, but you cannot use them next to each other: I have edited some values. Mainly I added triggers for rewards and counters. Also I added Custom Queries that give you information about the amount of fields that have grown. But they only count the Version 2 fields.
So, I am sorry to say so, but if you want to use my Version 2 you have to delete all Version 1 farm fields. Or start a whole new city....

[Buzzit]

Fantastic job over here  !
I will keep an eye on the progress.

[jmelvin]

Frank,
Thank you for the prompt response. I took another look at your fields again. I do see that the building exemplars for the growable fields have a growth stage property set to 0xFF but that seems to match up with everyone else's fields including the MAXIS fields. I'm not sure why that property is included in the building exemplar and doesn't match the growth stage of the corresponding lot exemplar but it doesn't seem to affect anything in game as far as I can tell.

I also noted that the lot exemplars of the ploppable fields do show growth stage of 0xFF as you noted. I went back to reread the comments that I remembered seeing about this. The discussion took place in the thread started by Cogeo: (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=3427.msg105148#msg105148
The discussion on this issue starts in RippleJet's reply#26 in that thread. From what I understand of that discussion, the ploppable fields setup this way will dilapidate if not supplied with water. Cogeo did find that his ploppable fields did not have this problem after he set the ploppable lot growth stage to 3 or under. I'm not sure why PIM-X builds the lot exemplars that way when someone creates ploppable farm fields. It's the lot exemplars that I have had to adjust in many of the ploppable field packs that I have downloaded.

I noted your comment:

If you are going to make farms that size indeed you should make farm lots of that size. And if there are no buildings on it I'd make them Stage 1 farms.

I did a bit of research on the issue of farm sizes/stages/jobs and will probably need to try to keep the size of my farms somewhere around 7x8 or under and then pick the stage and # of jobs within the guidelines posted by jmyers in his reply #5 in the thread titled Sc4-PIM Filling degree question (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=14355.msg413755#msg413755
Jim M

[FrankU]

Jim,

Thanks.

I will read the discussion you mentioned. Dilapidation of the ploppable fields because of water would be appropriate when we have farms that need water and that is indeed from stage 4, so all farm fields should be able to keep working without water in stages 1, 2 and 3. So I guess now that I have to change the growth stage to 1.
I never found something like this, because I cheat when I play the game: I have a water-all-over-the-place cheat mod in my root folder. So I never lay pipes. I just throw in a water source somewhere in my city tile and I am set.

The fact that growable fields have growth stage 255 could be explained by the fact that these fields must not grow by themselves. They are attached to real farm lots. So I guess that growth stage is appropriate.

And yes, Jim Myers is the guy who helped me out with job counts versus lot sizes. You surely have noticed that this was my question in hte first place?

Frank

[mrbisonm]

I'm glad to see that someone is adding other farm implements to the game. We've got several tractors, wagons, and grain haulers from various sources. PEG added a plow (that I think looks more like a disc). JMeyers gave us a grain elevator. Simgoober gave us a couple of nice harvesters (one with the front attachment for corn and another with the attachment for harvesting soybeans and wheat). That's just mentioning a few. But I've really missed not having balers, planters, and some others that I see you will have in your set of props.

Well, you're gonna love my props. I have Balers, the regular sqaure ones with a shoot/wagon and also for round bigger bales. Then plows and discplows of different width, the ones we use in the east and the oversized ones from the wester plains, but hey, that's not all, there will be special grain and silage wagons, new and different tractors, seeders, fertilizer dispensers, sprayers, haying fans, haybines and mowers, tillers, manure spreaders, for both solid and liquids, rowes, graders, rakes etc.......

There should be something like 30 to 35 props of Farm machinery equipments.

Right now I am very busy irl for a few weeks (until end of July), and not been able to do much on this props, also there has been a real bad train disaster in my neighborhood and several people I personnally know have been effected.  (see the link on the bottom for more details). but I will be back 100 percent in 15 to 20 days on this project, once and for all.

Btw, I hope that you will share these fields with us, right? Nice project!

Fred



http://community.simtropolis.com/topic/58842-massive-train-derailment-in-quebec/

[jmelvin]

Ahh, responses from both Frank and Fred.

And yes, Jim Myers is the guy who helped me out with job counts versus lot sizes. You surely have noticed that this was my question in hte first place?

Oh yes, I noticed that you started the thread titled Sc4-PIM Filling degree question where Jim Myers made his comments. Your original question led to a very informative discussion.

Fred: Sounds like you have quite the package there. I saw your preview earlier in the thread and can't wait to see some of these in the game. I'm looking forward to combining some of your props with a water wagon to end up with something like this:
I found this setup being used to do what I am guessing is an Anhydrous Ammonia application to a field.

Btw, I hope that you will share these fields with us, right?

The images you are referring to (I think) are 128x128 pixel BMP files that can easily be turned into textures that could then be used to make fields. Yes, I'm willing to share either the BMPs or a DAT file with finished textures. I'm in the process of using SC4TOOL to turn these BMPs and several others into textures using my assigned textures IID range which shouldn't be a conflict with anything else out there.

Jim M

[mrbisonm]

Fred: Sounds like you have quite the package there. I saw your preview earlier in the thread and can't wait to see some of these in the game. I'm looking forward to combining some of your props with a water wagon to end up with something like this:
I found this setup being used to do what I am guessing is an Anhydrous Ammonia application to a field.

Hm, not sure what I see there, but it looks like a corn-rowseeder with a liquid fertilizer applicator. The seeder I have, in three sizes. The tank....not sure...I have bigger ones for pestysites and liquid fertilizers, and also for spreading liquid manures.

The images you are referring to (I think) are 128x128 pixel BMP files that can easily be turned into textures that could then be used to make fields. Yes, I'm willing to share either the BMPs or a DAT file with finished textures. I'm in the process of using SC4TOOL to turn these BMPs and several others into textures using my assigned textures IID range which shouldn't be a conflict with anything else out there.

That sounds good!

Fred

[gn_leugim]

@ Kelis and gn_leugim
The Version 2 of my farm fields set contains all farm fields from Version 1 plus some new ones, but you cannot use them next to each other: I have edited some values. Mainly I added triggers for rewards and counters. Also I added Custom Queries that give you information about the amount of fields that have grown. But they only count the Version 2 fields.
So, I am sorry to say so, but if you want to use my Version 2 you have to delete all Version 1 farm fields. Or start a whole new city....

No problem  thats good news

[jmelvin]

Hm, not sure what I see there, but it looks like a corn-rowseeder with a liquid fertilizer applicator. The seeder I have, in three sizes. The tank....not sure...I have bigger ones for pestysites and liquid fertilizers, and also for spreading liquid manures.

Like I mentioned, I think the photo shows a farmer applying ammonia nitrate to a field. The utube video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiMxJSNLMBo shows something very similar. I know some setups use dual side-by-side tanks behind the applicator. I was thinking that one could get close to the same look of this with one of your implements paired with a water wagon prop that is already available. One of your corn-row seeders should work fine for what I have in mind.
Jim M

[FrankU]

Hi Jim,

I did test my own farm fields. The ploppables did not dilapidate although they had no access to water or a road. They had power though...
So I am not sure if this is really a problem. Did you find dilapidation with my farm fields?
I plopped the lots and let my city go for five game years. I found dilapidation around roads on the grown lots, like they usually do, but I had no problems with my plopped fields.
As far as I understand dilapidated fields look black and have no jobs. My plopped lots do not have any jobs, nor any other financial, desirability or other effect. I did that on purpose, because I wanted them to be useful as eyecandy, not as replacement for any kind of game engine problems. No cheating or disrupting with my farm fields. Maybe therefore there is no dilapidation on my fields?

I mean: setting the growth stage is not a problem, five minutes of work, but if it's not neccessary, why should I do it?

[jmelvin]

Frank,

Sorry for not noticing your question earlier. I haven't had any of your fiels yet in-game. I tend to look at all downloads that I do with SC4PIM before actually loading into my plugins file for a game. I have a folder where I download new stuff, add the listed dependencies, then open up SC4PIM using that folder only. That way I can take a look and see if I spot anything that will be a possible negative effect in-game. I can also easily take a look with ilive Reader and see exactly what files are included in the download. Sometimes I like the concept of the download but don't necessarily like exactly how things are batted. I've had to tweak several of the farming related items for things like number of jobs so no one farm gets a real preference in-game. I've also "corrected" water- and air-pollution for various fields including the MAXIS orchards.

I have seen fields with stage 255 dilapidate, though not specifically yours, and finally figured out it was from lack of water after ruling out excessive road traffic. And yes, the fields did darken just like you see when there is too much nearby traffic. I've also seen some of the older ploppable fields show the no water zot. I used to lay down a grid of water pipes for a whole large tile before zoning for farms and or laying out extra fields using some of the ploppable fields out there. I've found it easier to tweak some of the items I download rather than go to the trouble of putting a grid of water pipes in and making sure to add another water source whenever the usage starts getting too hgh. Besides, my town Sims don't like having to pay for a water system that extends for miles into the country.

Jim M

[jmelvin]

This is a question for Fred.

Do you have a list of the implement props that will be in your package?

I'm asking because I've been collecting BMPs to use for farming related textures that may be useful with your props. Some of the BMPs I have collected so far cover things like: 1) spring planting with seed drills that have the bar out to put in the guide line for the next run through the field (I could taylor this for 6-, 8-, 10, or 12-row drills); 2) spring tilling with a disc/harrow unit; 3) liquid manure applications in spring and fall where the liquid manure tank has blades mounted on the rear; 4) fall tilling with a 12-bottom plow; 5) fall tilling with a disk/harrow unit; 6) manure being spread in the fall with a manure spreader; 7) corn being harvested for silage; 8) mature corn being harvested; 9) tobacco being harvested with a 4-row harvester; 9) soybeans being harvested; 10) soybeans being harvested and then the field being baled; 11) wheat being harvested during the summer and the field then being baled for straw; 12) rice being harvested; 13) flax being harvested after the field was cut with some type of conditioner (I haven't found any flax actually being cut); 14) hay being cut; 15) hay being raked with a double rake where the new windrow is greener than the previous pair of windrows; 16) hayfields being baled; 17) a sugarbeet field being topped with a rototopper then harvested with a sugarbeet harvester; 18) a potato field being topped using haulms then being harvested with a potato harvester; 19) cornfields being fertilized shortly after the corn harvest; 20) anhydrous ammonia application to a field

I'm not sure what kind of harvest the following image depicts but it would be easy to put textures together for this if you have the implement:


I'm still looking at various parts of the country with Google Maps keeping an eye out for other farming activity. I know you have mentioned some of the implements that will be part of your prop group already but could you provide a list if it's not too much trouble?

Jim M

[mrbisonm]

Ok, the list of farm implements that the MFP1 will contain?


Hm....I haven't completed the list yet, but I can tell what I have finished sofar and what I have started....


Seeder..... general, for wheat, rye, barley...etc
Seeder..... for corn, soya, sunflower....etc, two sizes
Planter..... for vegies
Sprayer.... for insecticides
Sprayer.... for liquid fertilizers
Liquid manure spreader (tanks in two sizes)
Solid manure spreader, one model
Manure Dumper
Disc harrow, two sizes, medium for regular farmfields(somewhat half of a city tile large) and a very large one (one full citytile large) for the immense fields out West. Also one that is "closed" for transportation on roads.
Plows, two models
Hayraker, two models
Hay tedder (faneur?)
Haybaler, small square bales
Haybine
Harvester for underground veggies, such as carrots, beet and potatoes.
Harvester (slightly modified model from rambuckel) in 3 different versions. (Corn, Wheat and Silage)
Wagons (several models), open, semiclosed and full height for silage, hay, straw etc
Fertilizers, two different models

....now, this is what I have either almost finished or which are in the workings. I still have some others in mind, such as the rollers to flatten the ground after seeding, Derocheuse in french (google doesn't translate it) it's the implement that will gather the rocks in the field into an easy to pick-up line, after the disc-harrowing,  also a tractor with forks to pick up round bales, a wagon to transport round bales, Bushog and a Round Bale Baler.

There could be more, haven't really looked around yet. If you have ideas,(not too complicated please), let's hear them.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[jmelvin]

Fred,
This thread has been silent foe a while now so I will give it a little bump. You've got quite a list there of farm implements. I'm still collecting BMPs using the Google Satellite Maps and have managed to find farm fields being worked in various states around the US that match up with most of the items on your list. You asked about other possible implements. I was checking ut the state of Louisiana on the satellite maps today and found a field where sugarcane was being harvested. I know Simgoober has seasonal sugarcane in his group of fields. The following image shows a sugarcane harvester:

http://www.deere.com/common/media/images/product/sugar_harvesting/3520_sugarcane_harvester/3520_SugarcaneHarvester_642x462.png

I know, you asked for something simple, and here some fool comes up with something like this.

One of the other harvesters that no one has done for the game is a rice harvester. I found rice harvests in Californis, Louisiana, and Minnesota where something like the harvester in the following image was being used.

http://www.best-b2b.com/userimg/973/988-2/shifeng-flly-feed-rice-and-wheat-combine-harvester-28.jpg

This one my be easier to do because the harvesting head is very similar to some of the ones I've seen used for wheat and you may already have something like that. I saw that both the rice harvester and the sugarcane harvester have treads much like a tank instead of wheels.

All of the above aside, I would be willing to look at your package of props and put together a scrutineering report if you want or need someone to do that. I am one of the LEX scrutineers even though I have never developed anything for public use. I took a look at Frank's Dutch Farm Fields version 2. You can ask him about the type of report I can put together.

I'll also put in a comment here that you probably want to set the orient to slope property to TRUE for most, if not all, of your props. I don't know if you had considered that already.
Jim

[mrbisonm]

Fred,
This thread has been silent foe a while now so I will give it a little bump. You've got quite a list there of farm implements. I'm still collecting BMPs using the Google Satellite Maps and have managed to find farm fields being worked in various states around the US that match up with most of the items on your list. You asked about other possible implements. I was checking ut the state of Louisiana on the satellite maps today and found a field where sugarcane was being harvested. I know Simgoober has seasonal sugarcane in his group of fields. The following image shows a sugarcane harvester:

http://www.deere.com/common/media/images/product/sugar_harvesting/3520_sugarcane_harvester/3520_SugarcaneHarvester_642x462.png

I know, you asked for something simple, and here some fool comes up with something like this.

One of the other harvesters that no one has done for the game is a rice harvester. I found rice harvests in Californis, Louisiana, and Minnesota where something like the harvester in the following image was being used.

http://www.best-b2b.com/userimg/973/988-2/shifeng-flly-feed-rice-and-wheat-combine-harvester-28.jpg

This one my be easier to do because the harvesting head is very similar to some of the ones I've seen used for wheat and you may already have something like that. I saw that both the rice harvester and the sugarcane harvester have treads much like a tank instead of wheels.

All of the above aside, I would be willing to look at your package of props and put together a scrutineering report if you want or need someone to do that. I am one of the LEX scrutineers even though I have never developed anything for public use. I took a look at Frank's Dutch Farm Fields version 2. You can ask him about the type of report I can put together.

I'll also put in a comment here that you probably want to set the orient to slope property to TRUE for most, if not all, of your props. I don't know if you had considered that already.
Jim

Well Jim and everybody out there following the MFP1 Project, this thread has been quiet for a few weeks because of the busy summer that we (Frank and I) are having. Family and real life situations come first. My buissness is having a kind of a never seen "peak" this year and my farms have never produced so much crops as this year neither, because of the perfect weather we are having here in Quebec/Canada. FrankU is probably as busy as I and besides, he has no choice waiting for my props to be able to continue.... . So, put all this together and we have a thread that has been "put aside" a little for awhile.

I suppose all that will change within the next month or so. After I have finished helping my Farmmanager with the crops and done my part of the loghome plans and finding all the construction companies for them, I will surely be back on the job of "gmaxing" at 90 %. Just wanted to let you all know......

Then, thanks for the pictures, but I think I have now completed the list of farm machinery and implements for now. One could always use a corn or silage harvester to use on a ricefield, which look similar, and besides, I don't think more that 5% of the Players will know the difference. Everytime I have town or city visitors on the farm, they ask me what this is for or what does that do and how it functions.....some of the cityslickers even ask me why I have eggs lying in my chicken coop, or if brown cows actually give chocolate milk. No kidding.....In my opinion, when it comes to nature, biology and farming, only about 15 % of the general public has an IQ over 100 and a big hole of emptiness of education in these categories. So, the list of those machinery implements that I am doing is more than enough and general for the moment. I do not deny the possiblity of a later add-on though.

About the slope property on these props, that I will leave this to FrankU, he is the specialist of tweaking my models. I am sure that he will do so.

Btw, I haven't stopped tworking on the MFP1 during the last three months, whenever I have a few moments of fre time, I will sit down open my gmax and start, continue or finish one of my ideas and models.

Be back soon.

Fred

[Jack_wilds]

Hi y'all [back 40 holler...] 

Its a good thing when fields are full and Canada has done very well as the Midwest is in a challenge we are behind on rain 1-2"... but I am not a 'farmer' any more as i left it when I left home and my brother got it and its mostly 'retired' now...

the sheer ignorance of non farm folk that come to the country and see the family and small farms [not so much the corporate] in action is amusing and appalling... I mean it so rational, why aren't they getting it?... dirt under the finger nails does a soul good... it is as what the sand county almanac guy said "when we get too far from the land..." 

[mrbisonm]

Hi y'all [back 40 holler...] 

Its a good thing when fields are full and Canada has done very well as the Midwest is in a challenge we are behind on rain 1-2"... but I am not a 'farmer' any more as i left it when I left home and my brother got it and its mostly 'retired' now...

the sheer ignorance of non farm folk that come to the country and see the family and small farms [not so much the corporate] in action is amusing and appalling... I mean it so rational, why aren't they getting it?... dirt under the finger nails does a soul good... it is as what the sand county almanac guy said "when we get too far from the land..." 

Well, sorry to say this, but those 1 to 2 inches of rain the midwest didn't get, we have received it and it did well for our crops I must say.

About the ignorance about the "cityslickers" that I talked about above of not knowing the basics of farming was not mentioned to be an insult, I would like to stake this out please. Most of my family is now in the City, including my three sons which all live in a town of 150K or more or in the city itself (Montreal). That is where the easy jobs (non-physical) today are. But at least my sons know the fundamental where the things on the table come from and how they are grown and harvested. (and surely know that chicken lay the eggs we eat, and not a machine in a grocery store or factory as a few have told me.

Back to the MFP1, I have counted 20 different models of farmmachinery and implements (not counting the tractors) and which have several submodels or different colours (textures), which will give us approximately about 45 props in all. I think that it should be enough to please all the simfarmers out there, right? Like I said, an add-on can be easily made afterwards.

Btw, I have decided that the machinery category will not be included in the MFP1 though, but will be a Stand alone which should be ready and uploaded about the same time as the original Modern Farm Prop pack One (MFP1)

Fred

[mrbisonm]

Before anyone thinks that I disappeared or even worse, that I died, I might as well report myself at the moment.

I have been distant from Simcity (and all the other PC Games) for the last months for several reasons, first of all because of the beautiful summer we had here in Quebec/Canada and then a lot of serious problems in real life.
Nothing concerning my health for the moment though, but a matter of buissness and the American Law (a construction job of mine in the US.). And nothing that really concerns anyone here neither.

I still come once in awhile, just to check in and have a look around, more and more since a couple of weeks, but I don't really have an interest of Batting, Playing nor Lotting at the moment. I was going to mention this before, but you know as it often is, we think it might change in a week and/or another week and so on, and all of sudden, we realise that a few months have passed.

I will come back later this fall for sure or maybe early this coming winter, the MFP1 will definitively be finished. I have put too much energy and time into this project to leave it unfinished. It could be that some models will not see the game at first, but maybe an addon can come later next year. I will render what I have and believe me, it is not a few.

I am sorry that it turned out this way, but my RL is really taking most of my physical and phsycological energy right now, which is also affecting my family. So , I hope you will understand and be a little more patient and wait for the MFP1 later this year or at the beginning of the next year. Thank You. I am grateful for your patience.


Fred