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June 15, 2021, 01:52:40 AM

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Author Topic: Crashes to Desktop Using SC4 w/NAM32.1 + El Tracks Over Roads + Down Arrow  (Read 4479 times)

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Offline astrobill

Hi All:

Okay, I'm running the Aspyr re-release of SC4 with the NAM 32.1 installed (custom elements, not the typical, and not ALL NAM elements) on a 2010 MacBook Air running El Capitan.  Specifically, I've got the NAM traffic engine, the extended station query tool, the El-Tracks over roads tiles and, I think, the roudabouts/traffic circles/rotary tiles.

A few problems and bugs....

First, while trying to place some NAM-included road tiles (particularly the "El Track over road" or double-decker tiles), there are frequently times when the tiles don't honor the intended placement on the grid, and instead plop down one square to the right or left of the grid square my cursor is on.  It's not a "moving too fast" or "inaccurate cursor/mouse placement" issue.  It's definitely a bug in the NAM placement.

Secondly, in both El Capitan and Yosemite, the NAM doesn't appear to offer "click and drag" functionality to place multiple copies of the NAM-included road tiles the way the built-in SC4 tiles do, so one can't just click and drag to build an extended "El track over road' series, for example.

Thirdly, no matter what I try, I have significant issues connecting any of the NAM-specific el-track tiles to regular, existing El-track networks in my city.  Very odd behaviour occurs.

MOST importantly, after I place some "El Track over road" tiles contiguous to each other (one at a time...), every single time I THEN use the down arrow on my Mac to scroll down along my city the game crashes to desktop.  Every time.  I tried the exact same installation on my iMac running Yosemite, and the problem NEVER occurs.  It appears to be only the Air running El Capitan.  I don't think it happens with the left or right scroll arrows, but I can test it out later. 

Has anyone else run into issues running the Aspyr re-release and the NAM 32.1 on a Mac with El Capitan installed?

Regards,

Bill

Offline APSMS

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Hi All:

Okay, I'm running the Aspyr re-release of SC4 with the NAM 32.1 installed (custom elements, not the typical, and not ALL NAM elements) on a 2010 MacBook Air running El Capitan.  Specifically, I've got the NAM traffic engine, the extended station query tool, the El-Tracks over roads tiles and, I think, the roudabouts/traffic circles/rotary tiles.

A few problems and bugs....

First, while trying to place some NAM-included road tiles (particularly the "El Track over road" or double-decker tiles), there are frequently times when the tiles don't honor the intended placement on the grid, and instead plop down one square to the right or left of the grid square my cursor is on.  It's not a "moving too fast" or "inaccurate cursor/mouse placement" issue.  It's definitely a bug in the NAM placement.
This can happen often on the standard, Windows version as well. I think* it may have to do with the Puzzle Piece RULs (rules) and how the game tries to align PPs with existing networks. It may also be the slopes. The El-Rail over road is very slope intolerant, and subtle changes in slope between tiles (up and down or vice versa) may cause issues with the piece not placing where you want it. This issue is endemic to the PPs that come with the game as well, and not specifically a NAM "bug".

Quote
Secondly, in both El Capitan and Yosemite, the NAM doesn't appear to offer "click and drag" functionality to place multiple copies of the NAM-included road tiles the way the built-in SC4 tiles do, so one can't just click and drag to build an extended "El track over road' series, for example.
The El Rail over Road isn't a draggable network. The version over Road (2-lane) is puzzle piece (PP) based, and the version over Avenue/RD-4 is FLEX PP based, all of which means that you have to place each part individually (though the FLEX version is a *little* draggable, while the PP only version isn't at all)

Quote
Thirdly, no matter what I try, I have significant issues connecting any of the NAM-specific el-track tiles to regular, existing El-track networks in my city.  Very odd behaviour occurs.
Pictures would go a long way here. Odd behavior is kind of a broad descriptor, given the quirks with the way the NAM works. Keep in mind to connect the pieces to the normal El-Rail network, you have to place the appropriate pieces of the El-Rail over Road, and then connect the El-Rail network to the "Stub" that appears at the end of the piece. Again, slopes are an issue here, and having undulating road beds will prevent the El-Rail from connecting up.

Quote
MOST importantly, after I place some "El Track over road" tiles contiguous to each other (one at a time...), every single time I THEN use the down arrow on my Mac to scroll down along my city the game crashes to desktop.  Every time.  I tried the exact same installation on my iMac running Yosemite, and the problem NEVER occurs.  It appears to be only the Air running El Capitan.  I don't think it happens with the left or right scroll arrows, but I can test it out later. 

Has anyone else run into issues running the Aspyr re-release and the NAM 32.1 on a Mac with El Capitan installed?

Regards,

Bill
Maybe memo will show up and give his thoughts (he has the Aspyr re-release IIRC), but it's probably a MAC issue, and not one that can be remedied by the NAM. Sorry I can't help you there.
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Offline astrobill

APSMS,

Thanks for the feedback and thoughts. 

With respect to the draggability issues, I wasn't aware  the "El-Over-What-have-you" networks aren't draggable.  So thanks for that.

With respect to the placement issues, you may be correct that it's related to subtle (and I mean subtle!) height and slope differences between adjacent tiles.  I'm experimenting on a perfectly-flat test city, and can generally get the NAM pieces to interconnect with the built-in Maxis road/track pieces there.  In my actual city, the height differences are SOOOO small in the areas I'm working in, it's surprising I'm having so much trouble.  It seems like I would need to bulldoze the entire area, including a ton of buildings in a very dense city, to get the "El-Over-Road" stuff in there.  Too disruptive, alas, to really be useful to me.  :^(

With respect to the crashes, it's definitely not an issue on my iMac/Yosemite.  I loaded the same city on both machines and tried the exact same sequence of steps trying to use NAM pieces.  The crash only happens on the El Capitan version after putting some NAM pieces down and moving the arrow.  The exact same set of steps works without any issues on my other Mac running Yosemite.  And I've had no other crashes at all with the game under El Capitan under any other circumstances after weeks of running some pretty complex cities.   I'm still of the opinion that something funky is happening under El Capitan. 

ALSO, I should've mentioned the NAM 32.1 installer doesn't seem to run under El Capitan, it produces an error message (attached).  I built the NAM folders on the Yosemite machine and dropped them into the plugins folder on both machines (Yosemite and El Capitan).  All the NAM features seem to be working on the El Capitan machine.  But for this crash issue, there'd be no indication of any issues.   I'll start a different thread on the installer issue if there's a chance anyone would have the time to look into it.  Perhaps a Mac version of NAM 33 will fix this anyway?   I think this is probably due to the new "system integrity checking" that Apple added to El Capitan that prevents unapproved applications from accessing or modifying core files.  In fact, even system administrators can't change core files now without disabling the new "SIC" feature in El Capitan from a Terminal command line and then rebooting....sigh.

Offline mgb204

Perhaps a Mac version of NAM 33 will fix this anyway?   I think this is probably due to the new "system integrity checking" that Apple added to El Capitan that prevents unapproved applications from accessing or modifying core files.  In fact, even system administrators can't change core files now without disabling the new "SIC" feature in El Capitan from a Terminal command line and then rebooting....sigh.

I can't be certain if NAM 33 will have a Mac release, although I would expect so at some point. That said, if Apple have changed something in the OS that requires some sort of certification from Apple for the NAM to work, you can likely forget any support for it. I'd have to say, based on your troubles I would personally consider downgrading the Operating System. In the same sense, were Microsoft to release an update to Windows that hampered the ability of the NAM or SC4 to run, it would likely be beyond the control of the NAM team to fix.

The NAM team is not resplendent with MAC owners to my knowledge, I can't even say if anyone would have the latest release for the purposes of testing this? That said, installing in the way you have should work to my knowledge. So if the problems only occur on the machine with El Capitan, that suggests the problem is connected with the computer and not the software to me.

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The only Mac owner on the team is memo, who has been inactive for about 2 months now (coincidentally, it's his birthday today).  We have no one on the team to even assemble an installer, let alone figure out what's happening with the El Capitan issues.  I work in a field (music composition) where a lot of people use Macs (I don't, for a variety of reasons), and I've heard a lot of complaints from colleagues about El Capitan causing issues with many of the major music notation and audio programs, so it sounds to me like Apple's screwed the pooch again.

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Offline tomvsotis

Fwiw I'm running the Aspyr re-release w NAM 32.1 on a Mac running El Capitan, and I just tried plopping a bunch of Elevated Heavy Rail Over Road pieces next to one another, then hitting the down arrow. No crash. Are you sure that maybe the puzzle piece isn't hitting a transit-enabled lot when you scroll down?