Menu

LEX File Exchange
EA Support Files
SC4 Wikipedia
Network Addon Mod
Dependencies
Chat
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

January 17, 2022, 09:33:54 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: RTMT El Rail over Road Stations  (Read 23997 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline allan_kuan1992

Re: RTMT El Rail over Road Stations
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2009, 06:34:04 PM »
Quote
Quote
Is it also possible to make stations that "overhang" the network? I know BriPizza made something similar but I'm not particularly liking how those stations seem to lack ADA compliance.
I'm not quite sure what you're asking here.  The model can certainly overhang the network, which is how we will get a four-square-long station.

Well... I mean stations that are technically on a lot beside the El-Rail over Road but have the station overhang the network.

Quote
Quote
One more thing that is slightly off topic: is it possible to relot the RTMT stations such that there is say one staircase on one side and elevator access on the other for road and one-way road stations that have subway connections? For avenues we might be able to do two on either side depending on space.
You need elevator access on both sides in order to reach both platforms.  And for Sims in a hurry, you need stairs on both sides too.  As for avenues, there currently is no el rail over avenue, nor is any definitely planned, so we won't worry about stations for those for now.

I kind of said this was off-topic... but most RTMT subway stations don't have elevators or two sets of stairs... rather one side has stairs and the other side is blank. Is it possible to add a small elevator in there? I'm not applying this question to just the El-Rail on Road stations but all RTMT stations with subway network enabled. (Hence the slight off-topic)

- Allan Kuan

Offline Xyloxadoria

  • NAM Team
  • Forums Councilmember
  • *
  • Posts: 124
  • Total likes: 1
  • Reputation: 4
  • Random Transit Modder
Re: RTMT El Rail over Road Stations
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2009, 07:19:13 PM »
Ive made some changes and heres V2:

That concrte block from the first model was the elevator, ive changed to glass. Also ive overhanged the station and added some supports. There are some other minor detail changes as well.

Offline buddybud

Re: RTMT El Rail over Road Stations
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2009, 07:42:15 PM »
awsome!  :thumbsup:

Offline Amtrak7

Re: RTMT El Rail over Road Stations
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2009, 08:19:00 PM »
Is this only intended to overhang an avenue or will it look fine overhanging anything else?

Offline Xyloxadoria

  • NAM Team
  • Forums Councilmember
  • *
  • Posts: 124
  • Total likes: 1
  • Reputation: 4
  • Random Transit Modder
Re: RTMT El Rail over Road Stations
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2009, 08:50:46 PM »
It should look fine overhanging any network except the wider RHW networks that end at the very edge of the tile.

Online z

  • Moderator
  • Forums Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 4900
  • Total likes: 67
  • Reputation: 26
    • RTMT World Headquarters
  • CL: Detailman!
Re: RTMT El Rail over Road Stations
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2009, 01:42:48 AM »
First, I'd just like to say that we at the RTMT Team are all very happy with what Xyloxadoria has managed to come up with, and I'm planning to include it in the RTMT V3.60 release (complete with optional bus and subway). :)

Well... I mean stations that are technically on a lot beside the El-Rail over Road but have the station overhang the network.

Ah, I see.  Such stations are certainly possible, but we have no plans to make any right now.

Quote
I kind of said this was off-topic... but most RTMT subway stations don't have elevators or two sets of stairs... rather one side has stairs and the other side is blank. Is it possible to add a small elevator in there? I'm not applying this question to just the El-Rail on Road stations but all RTMT stations with subway network enabled. (Hence the slight off-topic)

This would be a major reworking of the RTMT subway stations, especially when you take the customization aspects into account, and these aspects will be becoming more prominent in RTMT V4.  So this is not something that is practical for us to do in the foreseeable future.

Offline heitomat

Re: RTMT El Rail over Road Stations
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2009, 04:34:01 AM »
I have to express my wish for a European road textures version of these great creations.  ;)

I'm using both the RTMT-mod and the ERTM. After the addition of Euro road textures on the El-over-road pieces, I've started using those as well. But, as already mentioned in this thread, there is a lack of stations and RTMT-pieces for the El-over-road.

That's why I'm looking forward to a RTMT v3.60, hoping that my voice is being heard regarding the Euro textures. After all, if you have Euro road textures under every other stretch of El-over-road, it would look simply odd not having the same textures under stations.

Here's a picture from one of my cities where the Euro road texture under the elevated rail can be seen. to the left, in the corner, you can see the fully functional overhanging station by BriPizza (E-N) mentioned by allan_kuan1992.
Be gentle with me - I'm Norwegian

Online z

  • Moderator
  • Forums Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 4900
  • Total likes: 67
  • Reputation: 26
    • RTMT World Headquarters
  • CL: Detailman!
Re: RTMT El Rail over Road Stations
« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2009, 05:01:36 AM »
I have to express my wish for a European road textures version of these great creations.  ;)

You mean like this?   ;D



Not to worry - the RTMT Team will always continue to provide the proper road textures for all RTMT stations.  (Xyloxadoria's station just hasn't yet been integrated to the point where I could show that one easily.)

This brings me to a question regarding Xyloxadoria's station.  I think the one displayed here is perfect for an avenue overhang.  But do people think it would be useful to have a version where a road might pass under the third of the fourth squares, and an additional set of stairs would descend from the fourth square on the other side of the road?  This would have two advantages:  It would give access points to each end of the station, and it allow the Sims to reach the station without having to cross the road.  And for situations where there is no road involved, you still get the benefit of multiple access points.  So what do you think?

Offline allan_kuan1992

Re: RTMT El Rail over Road Stations
« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2009, 05:22:19 AM »
The elevator shaft seems to be missing a few pieces of glass...

It's looking good so far...

Z's idea of having a station over an intersection seems like an interesting one that could be tried...

- Allan Kuan

Offline heitomat

Re: RTMT El Rail over Road Stations
« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2009, 05:56:59 PM »
@z: Yes, indeed. Looks great!

I also agree that an overhanging station seems very interesting. For the variety, I'll vote for both versions: The one with stairs just in one end, and the other as well.
Be gentle with me - I'm Norwegian

Offline Nardo69

  • NAM Team
  • Forums Parliamentarian
  • *
  • Posts: 1356
  • Total likes: 3
  • Reputation: 4
  • CL: Railroad Tycoon
Re: RTMT El Rail over Road Stations
« Reply #30 on: June 11, 2009, 06:05:17 PM »
I would welcome both of them, too - especially because that baby would also be an awesome station for ElRail as well as elevated Heavy Railway - for the ladder there is a big lack of station since railways were elavated ...

Offline Xyloxadoria

  • NAM Team
  • Forums Councilmember
  • *
  • Posts: 124
  • Total likes: 1
  • Reputation: 4
  • Random Transit Modder
Re: RTMT El Rail over Road Stations
« Reply #31 on: June 12, 2009, 09:45:46 PM »
Here is my model for the staits on both sides

The avenue is just there for refrence, ill remove it when i render

Offline allan_kuan1992

Re: RTMT El Rail over Road Stations
« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2009, 04:10:14 AM »
Hmm... The design is interesting... but from what I've seen in Vancouver... I have three primary design criticisms...

1) Too many elevators. Most elevated stations in Vancouver have one for each platform. Unless if this were an interchange between El-Rail, Bus, and Subway I think having 4 shafts is plenty enough for wheelchair users.

2) The extra floor is excessive. I wouldn't mind if the floor was only as large as the stair and elevator section itself, but to have it cross the middle section is highly unusual.

3) Lack of support. The centre section looks very weak with that thin truss, although that is probably temporary. I suggest adding two columns on either side of the road that protrude outside of the lot (to leave room for the crosswalk underneath). On top of those columns would be a concrete beam that would support the middle section. I also suggest removing the 4 elevator shafts closest to the avenue and turning them into support columns as well.


Offline Nardo69

  • NAM Team
  • Forums Parliamentarian
  • *
  • Posts: 1356
  • Total likes: 3
  • Reputation: 4
  • CL: Railroad Tycoon
Re: RTMT El Rail over Road Stations
« Reply #33 on: June 13, 2009, 04:32:06 AM »
Looks great just ...

floor height for pedestrians:2,50 m
ceiling height0,20m
2 floors + ceiling5,20m

height for all kind of standar vehycles in Germany4,50m
Addition for safety & rad maintenance reasons0,20
Overall Height4,70m

By that quick plausiblity check the clear hight should be OK however due to the isometric perspective of SC4 it seems very low - the clear height of the version with only one elevator looks way better IMHO. I agree with allan_kuan1992, leave the extra floor away.

Elevators, well, for a 4*1 station ... yes and no.
standart train length and thus platform length for light rail train (as well as local for heavy local trains)  in Germany is between 120m and 160m depending on the used train material. These platforms usually have one elevator per platform due do financial reason (erection, maintenance, vandalism, electric bills). However on heavily frequented stations I've seen two elevators before so it's not impossible / illogical.

But for the majority a second staircase with elevator would be sufficient.

Support - well, 32m (which would be something like 20-24m IRL) can be done without additional supports - especially as the station is a rather light weight metall construction compared to a massive concrete constrction. But it wouldn't be a problem to add some supports

my (engineer's) point of view ;)

Bernhard  :thumbsup:

Bernhard

Online z

  • Moderator
  • Forums Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 4900
  • Total likes: 67
  • Reputation: 26
    • RTMT World Headquarters
  • CL: Detailman!
Re: RTMT El Rail over Road Stations
« Reply #34 on: June 13, 2009, 05:07:34 AM »
1) Too many elevators. Most elevated stations in Vancouver have one for each platform. Unless if this were an interchange between El-Rail, Bus, and Subway I think having 4 shafts is plenty enough for wheelchair users.

I would have to agree here.  And as we've got a road going underneath the station, crossing the avenue, we need room to put the optional bus and subway stations somewhere.  (The way TE lots work, we couldn't just put the avenue RTMT stations right next to the el station.)  So I would recommend removing both the stairs and the elevators from a pair of opposing corners of the station.

Quote
2) The extra floor is excessive. I wouldn't mind if the floor was only as large as the stair and elevator section itself, but to have it cross the middle section is highly unusual.

It's actually not all that unusual, especially for stations this size.  Such a floor serves as a pedestrian crossover (in both directions) and is often where the fare turnstiles are located.  Of course, in this layout, with the stairs and elevator where they are, that last part wouldn't work.  Nevertheless, I think the crossover function is useful, especially in light of my previous suggestion.  But such a floor doesn't have to be so low, especially since it has the potential of interfering with taller traffic.  I'd raise it at least to the bottom of the top pane of glass.

Quote
3) Lack of support. The centre section looks very weak with that thin truss, although that is probably temporary.

Again, I'd have to agree.  The metal trusses just don't look substantial enough to hold up the entire center of the station and the track as well.

Quote
I suggest adding two columns on either side of the road that protrude outside of the lot (to leave room for the crosswalk underneath). On top of those columns would be a concrete beam that would support the middle section.

I'm not completely sure what you're suggesting here.  One of the more straightforward solutions would be just to use a modified version of the current el rail support where the three inner trusses are.

I see that Nardo69 just posted while I was writing this:


floor height for pedestrians:2,50 m
ceiling height0,20m
2 floors + ceiling5,20m

height for all kind of standar vehycles in Germany4,50m
Addition for safety & rad maintenance reasons0,20
Overall Height4,70m

The problem with these calculations, while they are fine in the real world, is that scale is not consistent in SC4, especially at the lower levels.  So I would still stand by my recommendations.

Offline allan_kuan1992

Re: RTMT El Rail over Road Stations
« Reply #35 on: June 13, 2009, 01:47:08 PM »


The original proposed changes:
- New support columns in gray
- Sections to be removed in red

New change request:
Stair modifications are highlighted in blue. Z mentioned that the current stair layout did not allow for fare gates (or even ticket machines for that matter). The new layout means that people can reach the smaller second floor, pay their ticket, and then choose what platform to take. Wheelchair users can also switch between platforms without difficulty.

@ Z:
The crossover function can still be supported as part of the second floor can be kept... but to have that floor extend through the whole station is wasteful I think. I mean... I don't think people are going to walk to the second level and run across the intersection to get to the platforms when there are closer stairs nearby. Also, people don't just stop when they reach the top of the stairs; they'll probably start moving towards the middle as more people wait for the train.

- Allan Kuan
« Last Edit: June 13, 2009, 11:58:44 PM by allan_kuan1992 »