Breaking Ground: Terrain and Waterworks

[bladeberkman]

Hey, Gobias! Love the new sidewalk textures; great work. Especially the Central Park Cobblestones. I was going to edit a few of my lots in the LE using this texture, but could not find it. I was able to find most of the others, however. Do you know the LE ID for the Central Park Cobblestones? Is there an option to use them in the LE?

Thanks!

-Blade 

[Gobias]

Hey, Gobias! Love the new sidewalk textures; great work. Especially the Central Park Cobblestones. I was going to edit a few of my lots in the LE using this texture, but could not find it. I was able to find most of the others, however. Do you know the LE ID for the Central Park Cobblestones? Is there an option to use them in the LE?

Thanks!

-Blade

When I set up the MAXIS base texture replacement addon I chose only a selection of the various textures I had made for sidewalks.  Many made the cut standing in for various MAXIS textures but turns out I didn't use the Central Park texture in the replacement selection... which is why you won't find it in LE.  It exists only in the Central Park Sidewalk file.

If you're handy with Ilive and a FSH tool (trusty 'ol Fishman will do the job) you could make the sidewalk into an LE texture pretty easily.  If you're not familiar with these tools let me know and I'd be happy to make it into an LE-base texture and send you a link.

Cheers,
Daniel

[Gobias]

Ok, so, it's show-and-tell time.  As mentioned a week or so ago I'm working on a new terrain mod.  Something to bridge the color palettes of the bright-green/grassy Berner Oberland and the darker dirtier Appalachian.  Here's a quick comparison of the those two mods and a beta-version of what I'm working on now using the same scene:

The Appalachian:


The Berner Oberland:


And progress on the new, as-yet-untitled mod (Given my handle "Gobias" I've just taken to calling it the "Sudden Valley" Terrain mod.  Any AD fans out there?)



I'll be back soon with a few more screenshots and some detail on what's new in the mod... stay tuned.

Cheers,
Daniel

[Gobias]

Yes, good to hear. I've been toying with your textures as well, giving some nice results - check tonight's update in my MD. I'm curious to see where exactly you're going. You could make all my modding useless.

Willy, PSC is an absolute beauty and I love what you've done with the textures.  Particularly your "content selection" is top-notch.  I certainly want to encourage you to keep working with terrain but I also would be curious to see if the new mod I'm working on addresses any of your needs.  If you're interested in trying the beta let me know.  In fact I'll probably want to line up a few testers for feedback and suggestions.

[vortext]

Looks like you've found the perfect middle ground! 

One request though; perhaphs you could give it some more variety? No offense meant but both yours and Lowkee's terrain mod are a bit dull compared to CPs, despite being HD. That said, I know making textures is very time consuming and I'm happy anyway you decided to make another terrain mod. My two cents. 

[Girafe]

Grass textures are much better (your Terrain mod was too green saturated and Lowkee's too "dessaturated"), this one seems to be a good compromise. Rocks textures need to be updated IMHO.

Keep going on this way 

[epicblunder]

I too like the balance of green-ness in this one, especially up near the snow line.   

[Gobias]

Girafe:  thanks!  Regarding the rock texture I've actually always felt pleased with the BOTM rock texture.  It holds up to stretching and zooming fairly well (a necessity in Alpine maps) as limestone.  Rock is a tough texture to get right without the result coming off too cartoonish and sometimes too much detail looks awful when you zoom back.  But I'll take all the suggestions I can get and I'll see what I can come up with rock-wise to improve.  Simple suggestions like these are good because they push me to work on something I might not have tried to improve.

Vortext: Thinking about your comment regarding CP's details...  A couple of things come to mind.  I've often made attempts to try and work in detail textures to the Oberland - flowers, rocks, gravel, etc.  Sometimes those attempts fail for two reasons.  One is that details like rocks or logs just look better as a three-dimensional models (MMP) in the game because they have depth, lighting characteristics.  I got away with a boulder-texture in the BOTM but it was the texture I was least satsified with.  The other issue is the INI which isn't really well-suited to detail texturing.  I can never guarantee that a detail texture won't accidentally overwhelm someone's map because depending on slope/elevation it just might be that the ONE spot in the INI I try and work that detail in happens to be a dominant on someone's map... and then all of a sudden you've got logs everywhere or a meadow covered in gravel.  But sometimes I can still manage to get detail to work.  The boulder-texture in BOTM works ok only because I isolated the one unique area where moisture collects at the foot of a cliff and therefore the boulder mostly appears only in that location.  But you can still see the texture pop up in places it doesn't belong.  Same with the glacier-texture.  Since the INI is moisture based it too appears on the sides of cliffs at times and there's nothing I can do to stop that.  However what I can do is work to create more low-lying details and just improve the overall level of visible-detail in all the textures across the board.  That is something I'm still working on with this mod - more variation, more visible detail.  Thanks for the comment as it immediately made me boot up an old CP terrain mod so that I could think on your suggestions!

Ok, so let's show a little more of the new mod-in-progress...

One thing I'm working on is adjusting the tree line to make the snow-cap "reach" into the lower terrain with a little more variety/blend.  Manipulating the curve of the tree-line via moisture will help accomplish this as will textures I'm still working on creating:


Also the level of visible detail in the grass will be improved a bit.  One strategy I adopted w/BOTM that I'm discarding here is the use of a three-tiered zoom-out on my grass textures, moving to just using the closest two.  Pic below features mostly new grass textures that have more natural detail visible from higher-up:


Of course there's a big change in "green"-ness.  The mod is darker, less blue and I think matches both VIP seasonal flora and custom content pretty well.

Here's an autumn scene:


And back to Spring/Summer:


I'm still very much working on the INI and distribution to blend more and create more detail.  So what you see map-wide will change as I start blending more.  Anyway - let me know if you have any suggestions and I'll keep working...

Cheers,
Daniel

[sunv123]

Maybe you should make the snow a little more visible by making it thicker, because the snow is almost grey, but in mountainous regions, the snow is white. Pure White. Here's a picture.

[vortext]

One is that details like rocks or logs just look better as a three-dimensional models (MMP) in the game because they have depth, lighting characteristics.  [...] The other issue is the INI which isn't really well-suited to detail texturing.  I can never guarantee that a detail texture won't accidentally overwhelm someone's map because depending on slope/elevation it just might be that the ONE spot in the INI I try and work that detail in happens to be a dominant on someone's map... and then all of a sudden you've got logs everywhere or a meadow covered in gravel.

Sure terrain detailing is best done with MMPs and indeed the latter sometimes was a little awkward with CPs mods, having an entire slope full with logs. 
What I was thinking off, however, was more surface/clover variation. Like a mossy textures transitions into thick grass, which transitions into a more muddy grass texture - imho the BOTM is a little too clean. 

Though in the last two pictures it seems you've already incorporated some dirt patches.

[Gobias]

Maybe you should make the snow a little more visible by making it thicker, because the snow is almost grey, but in mountainous regions, the snow is white. Pure White. Here's a picture.

Well I think I might already have you covered on that one.  The previous pics I posted don't really show high enough elevation but try this one:



That's my "top of the world, ma".  Snow is deeper and whiter once you get far enough up past the tree-line.  The previous pics mostly only showed the area right around the tree-line and I created a layer of elevation where snow, mud, rock all mixes together.  Further up though you get mostly pure snow, drifts, glacial texture in level-areas and on steep cliff faces either rock or a rock/snow texture.  Let me know if that's more to your liking.

[Gobias]

Sure terrain detailing is best done with MMPs and indeed the latter sometimes was a little awkward with CPs mods, having an entire slope full with logs. 
What I was thinking off, however, was more surface/clover variation. Like a mossy textures transitions into thick grass, which transitions into a more muddy grass texture - imho the BOTM is a little too clean. 

Though in the last two pictures it seems you've already incorporated some dirt patches.

Agree - the BOTM is too clean.  Probably just due more to my approach w/BOTM - that area has some strikingly lovely open grass fields even on the steepest of slopes and I think I was afraid if I introduced too much dirt and roughness in the INI then, while it might look nice in-game, it wouldn't be authentic to the recreation I was going for.  That's what's been so liberating about this mod - I'm not really modelling it after a particular area, so I feel like I have more freedom to get creative.  Also, yes, glad you noticed in those pics that I am working to blend more surface variation even in the flatter terrain.  That work is still on-going.  Thanks again for the replies!

[Swordmaster]

Some thoughs based on my playing around.

Apparently, I like the BOTM more than some of these other folks; only the color bugged me. I think the BOTM 0x50 texture is very good, and very versatile. Changing only the hue has given me a look I enjoy very much. I'm still playing around with the zoomed out versions. Maybe your new one will be even better, which would be awesome, but I wouldn't simply discard your previous work.

On the three-tiered zoom levels, I'm not sure of your current approach. I'd need a closer look at the new stuff to make a fair judgment, but I think using the zoom 4 textures at zoom 1/2/3 isn't going to give the best results. (Is that what you're saying?) Then again, I'm confident you'll crank out something that's good enough by your own standards.

The first shots are promising, but you'll understand I'm focused on the plain flats texture (let's call it the "pasture" texture). It would be a good idea to keep testing it both in summer and autumn, and probably play around with ChrisAdams' pasture flora on it. I think what you now have may be too dark to fit both seasonal colors, or the MMPs. Even just considering the summer season, I've concluded during my testing that the best look will be achieved if your grass clearly stands out agains both CP's and girafe's summer trees. Right now it seems to be within reach of the same hues. While this certainly makes for a nice grassy look, it would be more conciliatory towards the game's limits to up the contrast between the two. After all, we're stuck in this camera angle, and it's usual you see the grass texture behind a tree. This is even more important for folks who play with shadows turned off.

Of course, these are just suggestions. Maybe some folks would enjoy terrain that largely uses the same colors as the trees. Maybe, this carves out some room for a third terrain mod?


Cheers
Willy

PS: Of course, I'd be happy to test.

[sunv123]

Oh yeah, forgot about that. That's great, looks wonderful!

[bladeberkman]

Hey, Gobias!

Actually, that would be wonderful! I have never used these tools before and I'm not sure I would know where to begin. If it is not too difficult and would not take too much of your time I would be very appreciative. They would make a great base texture and blend well with a lot of Paeng's parks.

Thank you for your work. Very happy with what you are doing on the new terrain as well.

-Blade

[whatevermind]

The new terrain looks great so far! I definitely like the grass textures from those later shots, and the color scheme looks great as well.

[jmyers2043]

Missouir Breaks is my favorite terrain because of the muted color palette. It also comes close to the Maxis pasture too. I swtich Lowkees Appalachian in and out too. The color of this new terrain pretty good.

- Jim


 

[Gobias]

Hey, Gobias!

Actually, that would be wonderful! I have never used these tools before and I'm not sure I would know where to begin. If it is not too difficult and would not take too much of your time I would be very appreciative. They would make a great base texture and blend well with a lot of Paeng's parks.

Thank you for your work. Very happy with what you are doing on the new terrain as well.

-Blade

PM'd you the link - let me know if that works.

Daniel

[adfiver]

And a mod that replaces the MAXIS retaining walls with a variety of brick or rock/mortar walls, all 19th century:

If (I hope 'when') you make this mod, it'll be like another "revolution" in the game, because a mod replacing the Maxis retaining walls is what so many people are dreaming of and would like to have!

[sunv123]

I'm pretty sure that it's in the mod itself. Here's a link

http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2850