Three Rivers Region

[Rayden]

Still lurking in here David, reading everything and trying to adsorb whatever I can, but, still haven't found the right words to describe what I've seen in here. 

[Grneyes]

David, as always, beautiful scenery. Those farms look great. Is the stream all ploppable water? I like how gently sloped the banks are, very realistic.

[Gaston]

David,
    You know somedays I don't know why I like you so much.  j/k     You are truely talented.    Let's see...   You don't like the way the farm fields look.    Sooooo...   You just pop open a program you said you weren't familiar with, and (wait for it)   Redesign them so they are more to your liking.     This is truely some amazing stuff.     


---Gaston


    glad your eye is feeling a bit better.

[Menotyou]

That is a massive region! I've been follow Three River's back at ST, and when you moved over here, I followed you here. Those farms are amazing looking and really reminds you of real life.

[kalanc69]

I have to agree, I love the farms and everything else that you have done with three rivers. I have a question for you though dedgren..Could you post some pictures of your industrial areas because I am learning how to create my cities and I am having some trouble making my areas look realistic! Thanks...

Kalanc69

[emilin]

I clearly have some catching up to do here. It's hard to keep up with a journal like 3RR when you keep those updates coming in such a fast pace. It just takes a few days of unexpected extra duties at work to miss so much.

Anyway, great job! Amazing levels of detail.

And some input:

Why not use Trolcas dirt road mod (preferably in jeronij's extended version with diagonals)? I think that concrete roads are rather unrealistic in farm fields alltogether. In jrj's version there are also some nice road transitions that will make the intersections look smoother.

Most of the farms you've plopped look stunning, but some show a disturbing repetetiv pattern from afar. I normally wouldn't have pointed this out, since I think it might be an unsolvable problem, but since you being you... I thought it might be something you could actually work around.

[dedgren]

Well, I'm going to pick back up here one of the more popular features of 3RR back from the old days when we were over at ST.  "We've got Mail..." (WGM) is where I will try, over the course of a few days, to work my way as far back through your comments as possible and do things like answer questions, explore topics and issues you've raised, and just generally try to keep 3RR a conversation about SC4 rather than a lecture. In the last months of 3RR at ST (I'm going to start using 3RR-ST from this point, you've been warned that, as a former member of the military, I can get acronym-happy at times) I took to starting WGM posts with what I called "Notes and Asides," which is a heading I've stolen from the real Rolling Stone magazine [linkie] (that being the one that was published from the 60s into the mid 70s or so- not the pale and watered-down imitation of later years) to denote general info and points I wanted to make not related to any particular comments.  That will be my practice here at SC4D as well as I move from the more-or-less freeform period that we've been in to a far more organized and structured... ...yeah, right- in whose lifetime? ... format that I would intend to complement and enhance the presentation of 3RR as a truly collaboratively developed region.

I will be developing uniform titles for particular types of posts (like WGM) and "look-and-feel" presentation attributes that I hope you will find to your liking.  If not, please never hesitate to let me know in a comment or PM.

So, without further ado...

Notes and Asides

Anonymous readers have asked, "Why linkies?"

As I have answered before, "Why not?"

I throw in links to things that strike my fancy as I write, sometimes to a specific website, but most often to a Wikipedia [linkie] (...well, there you go...) article that seems on point.  Love Wikipedia or hate it, and some do, it's one-stop-shopping for web info on just about anything, and its information is available in just about every member's home language.  That last, by the way, is important to me in placing links as well.  I know that English is the "default" language here, but that it is not the first language of many members.  Expanding from that, I also know that I have developed a set of life experiences and frames of reference that have been by-and-large formed by a lifetime spent in the United States.  I don't have any idea whether, for example, Rocky and Bullwinkle [linkie]



have ever been sighted in Portugal, so I'll put in a linkie when I refer to "moose and squirrel" or upsidasium.  Hopefully, this helps folks understand what I'm thinkin' about here who don't necessarily share common "mental furniture" with me.

* * *

For some reason, folks continue to ask, "Who are you?"

The short answer to that question is here [linkie].  I suppose there's a longer answer, but why don't we let that just come out as we go along.  As for what's in the post you just read if you followed the linkie, I will tell you that every bit of the information you see there is true, or at least as true as that stuff they're saying about wouanagaine [linkie].

With respect to the "Introduce yourself to the SC4 Devotion community" thread [linkie] that the above info about me is posted on, I'd encourage everyone who hasn't done so to unburden yourself of a little personal info there.  It's great to have some sense of who your neighbors are.  The thread's also a good place just to stop back by every so often and read about all the new members who've posted there since you did.  We're up to over 500 folks here, and I, for one, would hope to consider each of you a friend with whom I share a common interest in a great game.

* * *

While I'm in generic question answering mode I'll hit a few others...

"Hey, you're a lawyer- can I get some free legal advice?"  Well, in my considered opinion free legal advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.  All kidding aside, I'm here not because I'm a lawyer but instead because I love to play SC4 and to be in the company of other folks who do as well.  That said, if you have a burning question about some aspect of the law that you just cannot restrain yourself from asking me- shoot it to me in a PM.  I'll tell you up front that the likely advice you will get is, "You should talk with a lawyer about that," which is a gentle hint that the best person to provide you with some assistance is the guy or gal down the street (or, if you're living in some paradise like Micronesia [linkie], down the beach) who has a handle on the law locally.

That said, to the extent you have something to say about the laws of a particular SC4 region, I'm happy to throw in my 2 cents worth there any time.

***

"Why are you calling me by my first name?- I hardly even know you."  Well, that one's easy.  Aside from the fact that I think friends, by definition, probably ought to be on a first name basis, I have found that nics such as, let's say, "NebuchadnezzarsKid463xy19" are somewhat, shall we say, cumbersome and stilted to use in any reasonably normal sounding informal discourse, especially in PMs.  Like

Hey, NebuchadnezzarsKid463xy19, great use of Andreas Roth's cow patty plop [linkie]!  Can't wait to see more of The Farms of Manuria.

I'd rather just have it be Jim or Jane or Jorge or Johanna...well, you get the picture.  That said, if you don't want your first name or another short nickname used by me in addressing you- let me know.  I'll stop (and won't give you a hard time about it).  One's name, at the end of the day, may be all that is left- it's an important possession and you have every right to set expectations about how others use it.  Me- I'm David, and you should feel free to call me that anytime...

and, oh, NebuchadnezzarsKid463xy19, if you're out there and since I don't know your first name, can I call you Neb for short?

* * *

I have many more Notes and Asides to post, but let me move on now to some responses.

* * *

Emil (emilin - Developing Islas Gemas) asked on 1/24

Why not use Trolcas dirt road mod (preferably in jeronij's extended version with diagonals)? I think that concrete roads are rather unrealistic in farm fields alltogether. In jrj's version there are also some nice road transitions that will make the intersections look smoother.

Agree completely as to the better appearance.  The problem is that their use result's in sidewalks in rural areas, which is not acceptable as far as I'm concerned.  I started a thread about that issue here [linkie] and plan to post some updated thoughts and what I have learned over the past few weeks over the coming weekend.  There is some hope...

Emil also noted on that date

Most of the farms you've plopped look stunning, but some show a disturbing repetetiv pattern from afar.

Also agreed.  The fields have the same issues as many of the rock mods- because they are composed of small screen areas of the same pattern, the interpolation of the image that results as the viewpoint is backed further away leads to an easily discernable overall pattern.  There is definitely hope here.  First is that my larger lots were the result of a few moments of simply packing props on a lot- moving them around and/or making the lot larger may well help some.  More important is that I have learned from barby (barbyw - General Purpose BSC Lot Goddess) that the BSC part of the Farming EP is being updated.  I asked if I could provide some input and she graciously said please do.  So, I certainly plan to do that, and adjusting the prop size a bit to eliminate the situation that causes the pattern is high on the list of suggestions.

Emil, thanks so much for commenting here.  Developing Islas Gemas is off to a great start, and I look forward to appropriating learning from..

...Yeah, that's the ticket [linkie]...

...some of your ideas and work for use at 3RR.

* * *

Kalanc6 asked on the 24th

Could you post some pictures of your industrial areas because I am learning how to create my cities and I am having some trouble making my areas look realistic!

Uhhh...kalanc, my friend, come on over here. Closer...closer.

Now, I'm going to whisper this for your ears only because I don't want too many folks to find out...ready?

...3RR doesn't have any industrial areas, at least not yet. 

It's a great question, though.  I refer you to check out the work of three masters of creating SC4 industry- jeronij, AleKing and emilin.  Start there here and in the CJ forums at ST.  There are many others who do great industrial areas, but you can't go wrong looking at the work of any of these three.

I note that such industry as ultimately does come to 3RR will likely come in through the work of a contributor.

* * *

n.b.:  (1-26-07  10:00 a.m AST GMT-9)  Posting as I go- this will be a long post put up over the course of January 25-26, so if you get to this message at the bottom of what you've read, please check back later for updated content.  DE

[Serkanner]

Hi David,

Nice to see you have completed the migration from ST to SC4D  ... a wise decision if I may be so blunt to add.

As you already know I have been in awe of your work for a long time. Although I don't respond a lot I do visit 3RR very often and enjoy watching the great work you have done. Therefor, with certainty, I will also visit the Region here on SC4D ... and will try not to be a lurker too much.

E.

[petercintn]

Just goes to show that grand really goes with your grandfatherness.  I need to reread this, treat it like a text book on how to play this game! 

[Rayden]

Hehe, you're right, some of the things you sometimes write about or mention, if there wasn't a [linkie] I would never guess or understand what the hell you were talking about. Even  with all the knowledge I have from the Shakespeare language, it's impossible for a Portuguese to understand everything. Thx David for all those linkies.

[Gaston]

David,   (Yes, I know I can call you that here.  LOL)
     You might or might not recall some of the conversational postings I made over at ST.    I am referring to the ones where I said 3RR was like a home to me.     Well my friend,  that last post was like you just handed me a hot toddy [linkie],  put a log on the fire,  and bade me sit upon the comfiest chair [linkie].   (Hmm, Noone was expecting that!)     But seriously I have once again been welcomed home.    Thank you my friend.


---Gaston

[thundercrack83]

...And just generally try to keep 3RR a conversation about SC4 rather than a lecture.

If my college professors presented information half as interesting as you have here, I'd be a Rhodes Scholar. I do look forward to seeing how you address some of the comments brought up by everyone here, because I see it as more of an opportunity to learn and a chance to delve deeper into your thought process.

Also, I agree with Gaston in saying that you've made me feel very comfortable here. 3RR has become a welcome distraction from the trials and tribulations of real life and I thank you very much for that.

Take care,

Dustin (You can call me by my name anytime you want!)

[NikNik]

well David, you made me read all 14 pages of the introduce yourself page.
I found out that I have never submitted myself there. So here's: NikNik.

Thanks for the little history tour on 3RR. nice to see those old region shots again.

Have a great weekend, mine will begin inless than 3 hours.
Nik-Nik

[dedgren]

Hi folks- hey:

I've had some completely unexpected issues arise yesterday evening and today that are occupying my time.  I really want to get back to the ongoing WGM post but, in the meantime, here's some content from 3RR-ST that will help fill the time.

* * *

We're going to leave the Chicago area seeking some answers... ...but first I need to undertake a labor of love.  For those of you who will bear with me for a minute, you might gain some insight into the basis for my SC4 jones [ linkie ]. You now know, if you've followed 3RR for a while, that I love freeways, I grew up in the Chicago suburbs, I collected (and still have) a large number of roadmaps from the 1950s-70s, and I'm a really, really nice guy... ...no- the last can only be inferred... ...okay, so the very, very perceptive among you will know that I'm a really, really nice guy.  Whatever.  Anyway... Let me put these things together for you a little bit more. As a kid in the late 50s and early 60s, I felt pretty underprivileged.  Every summer most of my friends would take these great road trips.  My best friend Jay Rogers would always drive with his folks, for example, to Florida.  Other friends would hit the road and go to the east coast, or California, or to some big national park out west.  To add insult to injury, my grandparents (my mom's parents) would do the same thing.  Trips to Minneapolis some years and Seattle in the others (I had no idea at the time, of course, that my grandmother was going to clinics for yearly cancer treatments).  Always by car.  Always to somewhere that sounded incredibly wonderful.  Always to somewhere that I knew I'd never get to... ...because the only place my parents, brother and sister went to over those years was to Wisconsin.  To Manitowish Waters, Wisconsin [ linkie ], to be exact.  And we'd fish... ...fish, fish, fish, fish, fish... ...the whole week my dad had for vacation, then we'd drive home.  Oh, I'm exaggerating a little...one year we drove to the Boundary Waters area [ linkie ] in northern Minnesota...and fished.  Another year, we drove all the way to Manitoulin Island [ linkie ], in Ontario, Canada...and fished.  Or rather, my family all fished.  I only pretended to fish.  What I was really doing was thinking about the great time Jay was having driving back and forth all the way to Florida and while he was there.  And about California.  And Seattle.  And Maine.  And Yellowstone National Park. And I'd ask my friends and my grandma and grandpa to bring me back one thing from their travels.  Road maps!  And they did. I wound up with road maps of most every state, Canadian province and major North American city.  Road maps from oil companies, many now long gone, that I had never heard of:  Chevron, Esso, Sohio, Sunoco, Union 76, Utoco, as well as from some I had: Standard, Mobil, Cities Service, Enco, Shell, Texaco, Phillips 66.  I treasured every one of them.  I'd get a new trove from some returning traveler, and stay awake for hours at night with our family's "for emergencies" flashlight smuggled under my bedcovers tracing my fingers up and down those thin red and blue lines.  I'd marvel that many U.S. highways out west were still marked as gravel roads.  I'd plot the paths of the still mostly proposed Interstate Highway System and think, in the ignorance of youth, how great it would be not to have to drive through all those little towns or wind from here to there and back on roads that didn't seem to share my sense of urgency about getting from point "A" to point "B."  I traveled untold hundreds of thousands of miles in my head, and was a source of constant amazement to my parents, who just couldn't figure out why their nine year old child could give turn-by-turn directions to visitors to our home they were chatting with about a planned trip to Omaha. And those journeys always started close to home... ...because within just a few miles of where I lived were some of what I considered to be the greatest roads in this country. It all started with U.S. Route 6.  My lucky number, my favorite road of all.  The longest US highway: Provincetown, Massachusetts on the tip of Cape Cod [ linkie ] all the way to Long Beach, California (I never acknowledged the action of the California DOT in arbitraily chopping off the last few hundred miles and ignomiously  EDIT: ignominiously  (Woo Boy- missed that one!) terminating 6 at Bishop in 1964- they never asked me).  6 ran just a few miles south of where I lived.  I was convinced that I knew a better route through Illinois- one that would have taken it down Warren Avenue at the end of the block I lived on, but I was, again, only 8 or 9- nobody wanted my opinion about that, either.  Another thing that was great about 6 is that it was at the end of the block, runing on Ridge Road, from my maternal grandparents' home in Munster, Indiana.  So every few months I could just walk down the street, set foot on it (minding the traffic- the drivers of which I'm sure thought I was nuts), and be carried away to Cleveland, to Denver, to New Haven and Providence, and to L.A.   Then there was U.S. , a few miles to the north and east of Downers Grove.  Running east, it took me to Detroit, and west to the wilds of Montana, and later (maybe in some Karmic swap for chopping off 6 at Bishop), on to the coast in Washington state, crossing Idaho along what I mistakenly then though to be "The River of No Return" I had seen once in a movie.  U.S. 12 was cool because it went through the Wisconsin Dells area [ linkie ], which I thought to be most definitely cool.  U.S. , also a few miles to the north and east, started in my very own (at least I considered it so) Chicago and wound up, having grazed the mysterious Devil's Tower [ linkie ] on the way, at Yellowstone Park [ linkie ].  U.S. , Lake Street, followed the course of 12 around the outskirts of Chicago.  It was the second, with 6 and U.S. 30, of the three coast-to-coast US highways running within a few miles of where I lived.  It would take me, to the east, to Toledo, and Erie, Pennsylvania, Albany, New York, a few miles north of where my daughter Liz would graduate from college about 40 years later (R.P.I., 2005), and wind up in Boston, where I imagined Paul Revere riding along its predecessor 200 years before.  West, 20 was what I imagined to be the quintessential great plains route- miles and miles of two lane, straight as an arrow, rising and falling over long low hills out into a distant sunset.  20 somehow survived being "killed" by its transit of Yellowstone (every other numbered highway goes in and, just like the Roach Motel [ linkie ], never comes out.  From there, on to the beautiful Oregon coast, where I pictured 20 arriving, still full of energy from its brash, direct trip across the country, and finally only stymied by the indescribably wide Pacific Ocean (I didn't see an ocean until I was in my 20s, and grew up with concept of the Great Lakes [ linkie ] as being vast beyond imagining).  Just a few miles to the south ran 20's even numbered companion, U.S. .  From Atlantic City, my concept of which was formed by the board game Monopoly [ linkie ], through Philadelphia, Pittburgh, and then across endless miles of midwest corn fields past my hometown and out to Omaha, 30 was only second to 6 in appeal to me.  It was the route my friends who went east for the summer said their dads swore by.  Plus, it had all sorts of alternates in the Chicago area, which I thought added somehow to its importance.  Once past Omaha, I imagined 30 as a sort of paved "Oregon Trail" [ linkie ], passing forts and indian villages and all sorts of other Westernalia on its way through Portland, Oregon to the Pacific coast at Astoria.  I was always bothered by the western ends of 30 and 20 getting switched (20 ends at Newport, Oregon, over 100 miles south of 30's western terminus), as 20 isn't supposed to run south of 30 under the US highway numbering scheme [ linkie ].  Once again, nobody asked me.  U.S.  was the route closest to home:  Ogden Avenue, a four lane road about four city blocks north of my house.  Pull on to Ogden and drive east to the foot of Buckingham Fountain [ linkie ] in Chicago, where I still remember the old "End 34-66" road sign, marking (what else) the common eastern terminus of 34 and U.S. 66, of which I will say more in a minute.  To the west, 34 didn't have to do anything other than pass through Rocky Mountain National Park [ linkie ] on the way to its western terminus at Granby, Colorado to be OK in my book.  Actually, I always saw 34 west of Chicago as a sort of lesser alternate to 6, as it paralleled the latter usually a few 10s of miles to the north or south all the way out to Colorado.  Furthest away from my home was U.S. , paralleling the shore of Lake Michigan as (what else?) Lake Shore Drive in downtown Chicago, having swooped down from Michigan's upper peninsula from the mysterious and (in my mind, anyway) perpetually fogbound Keweenaw Peninsula at Lake Superior [ linkie ] through Milwaukee, and then on south to Miami, Florida, spawning all sorts of odd-numbered progeny (U.S. 441 and 641, for examples) along the way.  My mind vacation travels down 41 would take me through Nashville and Chattanooga, Tennessee, which for some reason I always thought was more or less the area that was the geographic center of the U.S. Civil War [ linkie ], then Atlanta, Georgia, and finally through the Florida Everglades [ linkie ], where I imagined alligators lying in wait at every pullout for the occasional incautious child....  U.S. , which ran north-south about 6 miles east of Downers Grove on Mannheim Road multiplexed with 12 and 20, always seemed to me to be U.S. 41's evil twin Skippy [ linkie ].  They both start up at Lake Superior, but 45 doesn't quite make it onto the Keweenaw Peninsula, and then sort of meanders south through Wisconsin, missing along the way anything significant.  It skirts Chicago, then heads south, where about the first interesting place it gets to is Tupelo, Mississippi, birthplace of The King: Elvis Presley [ linkie ].  It finally makes it to the Gulf of Mexico at Mobile, Alabama.  My 60s era central United States maps show 45 as a blue highway [ linkie ] down its entire length.  Nowadays, I'd take that as a virtue.  U.S.  ran, with 6, 30 and Alternate 66, through Joliet, a then run-down town to the south and west of Downers Grove known for little more than being home to the exceedingly grim Stateville Penitentiary [ linkie ], and being the place from where "Joliet" Jake [ linkie ] derived his nickname. 52 was probably, after 6 and 30, my third favorite of the time, for a number of reasons.  First is that it ran, before the bypass was built, a block from my paternal grandparents' home in West Lafayette, Indiana as Northwestern Avenue (my grandfather was a professor at Purdue University just down the street).  Second, 52 is the odd-duck of major US routes, in that it is the only one to travel any appreciable distance from northwest to southeast.  52 cuts across the United States from the Canadian border (Saskatchewan Province) to the Atlantic Ocean at an absolutely relentless 45 degree angle for most of its length.  It exercised, to the northwest, an inexorable pull on me that I truly believe has something to do with me being here in Alaska today.  To the southwest, it took in Cincinnati, Ohio, Winston-Salem, North Carolina and finally Charleston, South Carolina as places along the way.  It is probably the route I would most, if I could take the time, like to drive the length of today.  U.S.  is another diagonal route, this time from northeast to southwest.  It was also (no longer- thanks for nothing, ILDOT) another road that had its terminus in Chicago.  I always considered it, much like 45, sort of an inferior analogue of another nearby route, this time U.S. 66.  They (54 and 66) both started in downtown Chicago, both headed southwest out of the city and across Illinois toward the land of renewed hopes and dreams full of energy and promise, then along the way something happened to 54.  Where 66 wound up, after triumphantly crossing seven UPDATE: eight (sorry, Kansas, forgot about that 13 mile stretch) states and winding up at the Pacific Ocean in Santa Monica, California (I mean, who wouldn't want that?), 54 sort of just lost altitude and ultimately nose-dived into the muddy Rio Grande River at El Paso, Texas.  Along the way, it missed Dodge City, Kansas [ linkie ] and just about anywhere else that would have interested a nine year old.  Given a choice, who would have followed this dog of a highway on a trip west?  Having now lived in El Paso and driven some distance on its westernmost stretches, I grew up to belatedly give 54 the respect it deserved all along. Finally, there's What can I say- just a few miles south of my boyhood home.  Read the article [ linkie ].  It's all true. I'll never be a kid again.  I'll never again be able to look at a new map of a state I've never been to (I've now been to all of them) and spend hours in my mind traveling up and down its roads imaging what might be here and what might be there and what might be around around the corner if I was to turn left or right.  The mystery is all gone from my real world.  It's all mapped and known. SC4, on the other hand... Thanks for reading this. Later.

[pvarcoe]

David, loved your last post. Loved it, loved it, loved it!
We share a passion for highways and their history.

I must admit, the Canadian highway system (at least out west) does not share the amount of history and development of it's American cousin. So I have spent endless hours pouring over maps from both countries. I love to see the way the highway systems have developed. I too have collected maps, most dated since the late seventies though.

My wife and I have travelled mostly by driving (6 provinces and about 25 states). I just love discovering little spurs that were original paths the highways took. Often they lead back to the existing highway a few miles down the road. They are always an interesting distraction, more than worth the extra time they take.

That is a great shot of an older Chicago road map, btw.

Gotta run; gonna re-read that last post of yours again 

Phil

[M4346]

It's 1:47 am as I start writing this (I say that because I'll be off to bed soon) and I'm catching up (at last) with 3RR here at SC4D. I used to be an avid 3RR lurker at ST, but was always intimidated by the wealth of information and updates from you that I never really took the time to fully educate myself on the inner-workings and intricate details of this marvelous work of art! I can honestly see the passion and enthusiasm reflected from your work and I absolutely love it.

I am now at page 7 and just finished with the "A Field Guide to the Trees of Three Rivers Region: Deciduous Trees," and I had to stop and start typing out my reply.  My boyfriend, studying BioTech and taking Botany and Zoology as subjects (he's going into plant genetic engineering this year), loves the fauna and flora of this planet, and so do I (in a more non-scientific way), and this made me think of him. (Not that I think you would really like to know that. ) I love it when he "educates" me on the scientific classification and intricate details of plants and we've had many a discussion about the Plant Kingdom, myself being an eager learner. I do know my fair share, which I picked up in my early years of being fanatically pre-occupied with nature (growing up in South Africa and all that), but nowadays it has been more of an aesthetic appeal with me focusing my attention more on the social sciences. I'm digressing...

So, I found that very interesting and commend you for taking the time and going through all that effort to "educate" me and the others here.  And for reminding me of the love of my life at this lonely hour of the morning.

I for one love the information that you provide, as that is what really draws me to a CJ - the added info and not just über-photoshopped in-game shots, although that has its merit too.  #stsfd·

But let me stop polluting this marvelous piece of work of yours with my useless rants, and head to bed for a while. I'll be back in the morning to continue indulging in this MD. 

EDIT: So I did actually finish catching up on 3RR here at 2:54 am. I just couldn't resist. In conclusion I have to say that I love your work and will definitely be keeping up with it, now that I've finally caught up and do not feel as intimidated anymore.

Thanks for a masterpiece, and for sharing it with us. 

Regards,

-M-

[vab423]

Whooo-boy, golly!  That's more than I've ever read about maps in one sitting.  You are one fascinating storyteller, Mr. Edgren.  While I know the main point of the narrative was about maps, I must admit I got stuck in the first part when you told of fishing as it made me think of my childhood.  I, too, came from a family of fishermen (I think my father was sorely disappointed that neither of his daughters ever developed an affinity for it).  I can remember summer vacations driving (yes, we did get to drive* - not rubbing it in, but merely stating fact) from wherever we were living in California at the time to Idaho (Jerome, to be exact ... gad now you have me doing the linkie thing) to spend 4 weeks with my dad's parents, the bulk of that time going ... yup.  Fishing.  Although I could never get the hang of using live worms, I did enjoy threading Velveta cheese, salmon roe (red) and a miniature marshmallow on the hook.  Anyway, I mostly forgot about those trips; thanks for bringing them back to me.  hmmm, so I know I came over here for something else, tho .... what was it?

* Driving with my father was an experience all by itself.  Since my mother never got her driver's license, my dad did all the driving.  And my father's idea of driving was to get from start to destination as quickly as possible.  We would leave the house at o'dark 30 and drive and drive and drive until we needed gas.  Bathroom stops?  When we got gas.  If it was really, really, really urgent, my dad would pull over to the side of the road so we could relief ourselves.  I can't vouch for Jay Rogers' experience, but I can tell you, it wasn't all it was cracked up to be.

[Fred_Ginger]

* Driving with my father was an experience all by itself.  Since my mother never got her driver's license, my dad did all the driving.  And my father's idea of driving was to get from start to destination as quickly as possible.  We would leave the house at o'dark 30 and drive and drive and drive until we needed gas.  Bathroom stops?  When we got gas.  If it was really, really, really urgent, my dad would pull over to the side of the road so we could relief ourselves.  I can't vouch for Jay Rogers' experience, but I can tell you, it wasn't all it was cracked up to be.

Vab/Vicki, we've got to stop channeling each others lives! 
Although, I must admit, my sisters and I didn't have to fish, my brothers though were right there with Dad (and one time it was really a good thing as George fell in, hmmmm, what was the name of that river, well any way it was really fast, and Dad (who was below him on the river) caught him with his fishing line which slowed George down enough to let Dad grab him.  We always drove (up at o-dark 30, eat breakfast and on the road! - I did my best to sleep or read through it), and camped (I HATE camping!) but we never got out of California until the 60's when we went to Washington for the Worlds Fair they had up there, never did get into the Space Needle (I don't no how to do links folks, look it up).  My mother got an 8mm camera that year, we thousands of miles of film showing sunsets!  That was the last year I went with them, as a teen it was wwwaaaaayyyyy below my dignity to go camping with my folks anymore!
I was rather annoyed with the DOT when they did away with Route 66, dreams of a Corvette and adventure and all that you know......

[KooriSim123]

I absolutely love what i have seen here so far David, it never stops giving informative tips and definately has its own unique character to it  I always seem to have a heap to say until I actually start the comment then I'm stumped for words 
Catch ya later mate 

[thundercrack83]

It seems that we both share the same affinity to maps. Every year, my parents buy me the newest edition of Rand McNally's Road Atlas, and for some reason, I am captivated by it for hours! Lately, I've been trying to collect maps of major metro areas since I tend to gravitate towards urban areas. Anyway...it was great to some of the archival content and I look forward to the next update!