The FrankU and Nexis CO-OP

[FrankU]

Houston...Houston....Come in, come in.... We got a problem.....     

I was remaking all my lots these days. Not relotting, but exchanging the buildings.
Let me explain, because it is important.

When I started to make the farms set I decided to make all the farm lots with blank buildings, because that way it was possible to make every prop in the lot a part of a prop family. I also had maximum versatility in exchanging or altering the looks of a lot afterwards.
When I finished these lots I found out, already quite some time ago, that the farms did not grow like they should.
With CAM in a fresh city the first farms that grew were the stage 3 ones, not the stage 1, like I had in mind.
After some consideration I thought this was maybe due to the fact that I used all blank buildings with all the same occupant sizes.

Now I finally finished the task to remake all my lots into lots with models as buildings.
The exceptions are the Stage 0 (in fact stage one 1x1 lots with 2 jobs) and the Stage 1 lots.
For the Stage 0 I gave the blank model building the occupant size of 8x4x8. For the Stage 1 I gave this model an occupant size of 8x8x8. I thought that the greater heigth of the "model" would make a difference.
Fort the stage 2 and up I used available models of houses and barns as buildings.

Well... I thought this was the answer to the problem. But it wasn't.
I just tested the set.
Without CAM the Stage 1 farms start to grow when the new city develops. Later on I found sSage 2 to grow. Just like I had in mind. The Stage 0 only show up on smaller areas on the edges. I don't know what to do. Maybe just throw them out of the set? Apparently they don't want to grow. I had in mind that they would mix with the Stage 1 lots, so that we would see lots with only farm fields (the Stage 0 look like farm fields) and lots with farms in hte rural areas. This is also part of my problem.

But when I installed CAM the Stage 3 immediately begin to grow in the new city. When demand decreases some Stage 1 and 2 show up.

What could be wrong? Is there anybody who knows about this problem and can help me?

I am a Lotter and am really bad in Game mechanics and such...

[vortext]

No worries Frank, what you've experienced actually is the CAM. From CAM - Stage Limits and Thresholds

Agricultural Stage Limits

The threshold values are in all cases the total regional industrial capacity (not workforce): ID + IM + IHT.
Note that IR (agricultural farms) are not included in the regional industrial capacity!

In Rush Hour stage 3 farms took over as soon as the regional industrial capacity grew.
For CAM, the emphasize was simply to get an even distribution of farms of different stages, with the addition of the special stage 6 and 7.

Note the last sentence. With the CAM the first 3 stages will grow right from the start, in contrast to vanilla gameplay, with the following chance of occurence.

Stage 1 = 50% ; Stage 2 = 30% ; Stage 3 = 20%

So there's nothing wrong with how your farms grow. Quite the opposite as it's actually meant to be this way.

[FrankU]

Hmmm, well, that sounds like a reassurance indeed. On the other hand: I see really only stage 3 grow. What are the stage "0", 1 and 2 for then?
But probably there should be some more testing before I panic again.
I should read the info on CAM better in the first place.

Thanks Vortex! I can sleep better tonight.

[mrbisonm]

Still working on those tanks.......The models of those round tanks mentioned earlier have been changed, the numbers and names aren't correct anymore. Below are the new and right numbers of the models shown in the following pictures. Some models have been left out and new ones appeared. These will be all the large tanks available. I am working on the medium tanks and I haven't decided yet how many I will make. It will be between 3 and 5 models. (2 covered and 3 open maybe) No small tanks. (not in this Proppack)

Here is the newest member of my Proppack, maybe of no use for FrankU, but I personnally will create a growable Mega Porkproduction Farm after I finished this proppack, see real life picture above somewhere.

And here's the liquid manure tank for it.



Some others.
The M75F is half underground as shown on a real life picture above. These are the most common ones here in Northern Canada and Northern Europe. They have been put partially into the ground to prevent the total freezing of the liquid manure, because a frozen tank can severly damage it.

M75D is an above with textures, often seen with poultry and other bird productions.

M75A is a typical semi-liquid manure tank we can see near Dairy production farms (Cows for milkproductions) on all continents.



The M75B model is a typical liquid Pork manure tank late summer when a kind of algae has started to grow in them. Probably the most common farm manure tanks around on all continents.

M75C is very similar to the previous model, only some different textures to give variety. Very commonly seen liquid manure tank. Full tank.

The last one of the 75 series is the M75G model. It has a blue metal frame and outside stirring pumps, also commonly used by bird and pig farmers. It is  empty.



Hope you like them..... I'll be back with the medium tanks and some (2 or 3 manuresheds)

Fred

[FrankU]

Hi Fred,

I don't know what the rest of the world will say, but I like them very much! I guess the diameter of the A up to G models is the same as the one you showed before next to the barn? Being about one Lot tile?

The textures of the manure are really great and the XL texture would be something for a swimmingpool or a pond!
Maybe I'll use it for a swimmingpool on one of my farms. 

Frank

[noahclem]

They look great! I especially like the liquid and empty ones 

[vortext]

Looking good!  The big tank has a very nice surface texture and could act as a pool indeed.


Also a small note on FrankU's issue with CAM farm growth.

On the other hand: I see really only stage 3 grow. What are the stage "0", 1 and 2 for then?

You've actually already answered this question yourself 

But when I installed CAM the Stage 3 immediately begin to grow in the new city. When demand decreases some Stage 1 and 2 show up.

Exactly. If demand is high enough, the game will mostly pick lots with the highest number of jobs available. i.e. stage 3 farms. Once demand drops off, lots with less jobs will be selected. And this goes for all rci types for that matter, if demand is sluggish lower stage lots are selected and vice versa.

[mrbisonm]

Hi Fred,

I don't know what the rest of the world will say, but I like them very much! I guess the diameter of the A up to G models is the same as the one you showed before next to the barn? Being about one Lot tile?

The textures of the manure are really great and the XL texture would be something for a swimmingpool or a pond!
Maybe I'll use it for a swimmingpool on one of my farms. 

Frank

The 75 model series are all the same size and have the same "footprint" which will fit on a 2x2 lot. Remember, these are the large sized tanks. The medium sized ones are in the making and they will fit on a 1X1.
Then, lol,  I wouldn't want to "swim" in the XL tank, which is of a 4x4 size, but these tanks are mostly used for Porkurine, which is quite toxic, Ammoniak.
The surface texture is of brownish tinted with a little green, as they are irl. These tanks are usually stirred automatically with pumps every so often and that is why they look like "dirty" water. Not comparible with a swimming pool.

Thanks for the comments, be back later this week with the rest of the manure sets.

Fred

[FrankU]

Also a small note on FrankU's issue with CAM farm growth.

On the other hand: I see really only stage 3 grow. What are the stage "0", 1 and 2 for then?

You've actually already answered this question yourself 

But when I installed CAM the Stage 3 immediately begin to grow in the new city. When demand decreases some Stage 1 and 2 show up.

Exactly. If demand is high enough, the game will mostly pick lots with the highest number of jobs available. i.e. stage 3 farms. Once demand drops off, lots with less jobs will be selected. And this goes for all rci types for that matter, if demand is sluggish lower stage lots are selected and vice versa.

So you mean that I said myself: they are useless?
In fact I wanted my farms to develop first the small ones then the larger ones....
Maybe a mix of all of them would be OK too. Does your remark mean that in that case I should give all my farms the same amount of jobs? No, that would mean only one certain stage..... I don't know what to do.
Maybe it's because I zoned a large amount of farms and a fair amount of residential that started to grow immediately? Maybe I should zone less at the same time, but add more and more after some time?

[vortext]

So you mean that I said myself: they are useless?
In fact I wanted my farms to develop first the small ones then the larger ones....

They aren't useless when one is playing vanilla and development goes to the subsequent stages. With the CAM, however, proper sequential development starts at stage 4 and up.

Maybe a mix of all of them would be OK too. Does your remark mean that in that case I should give all my farms the same amount of jobs? No, that would mean only one certain stage..... I don't know what to do.

If you give them all the same amount of jobs the situation may arise there's too little demand for that specific number and no farms will grows at all. So don't go there. In fact what you've done so far probably is the best since the more the number of jobs varies, the more the lots wil meet the specific demand at that moment and thus there'll be the greatest variety in the end.

Maybe it's because I zoned a large amount of farms and a fair amount of residential that started to grow immediately? Maybe I should zone less at the same time, but add more and more after some time?

Probably a good idea for any development yes. I haven't come across any info confirming this but it is my experience simcity tends to grow the same lot when developing large areas at once.

Finally, if you really insist on having control over stage growth you could pack the lots for each stage into individual .dat files. This way users could start with stage 1 farms and add a stage when they feel the region is ready for it. This is more or less how I farm myself.

[FrankU]

Finally, if you really insist on having control over stage growth you could pack the lots for each stage into individual .dat files. This way users could start with stage 1 farms and add a stage when they feel the region is ready for it. This is more or less how I farm myself.

Hi Vortex,

Thanks a lot for your input.
Your last suggestion is being answered already. I had planned to upload the bunch with each stage in a separate subfolder. Anyone can delete the not wanted lots and buildings. Or what is more convenient: zip the unwanted files and leave them in place. Zipped folders are not being used by the game.
Anyway, it's my aim to make the file structure of my uploads in such a way that anyone who wants to throw out anything can do that easily. So no mega-pack upload for farm fields (check out my upload on the STEX) or farm lots. In the read me I try to put down all info that is needed to use the files.
E.g.: in my upload of the farm fields I made a list where you can see what IID every field has, so that you can add them to your own farm lots and also a listing of which dependency is needed for which field. So that you have only those dependencies that you actually need.

[mrbisonm]

Beautiful and warm weather, family and work have been kept me away from my gaming computer for awhile. Last weekend though, I took some time to finish the liquid manure series of the medium sized tanks. That's it, no more "stinkers".
I will start the "side" buildings (sheds of all kinds) or the silos now.

I categorized the medium liquid manure tanks into 3 different models, open (M71), closed with temporary covers (M72) and closed with permanent or solid covers (M73).

Each one of them is different, has different textures and details, but also have the same footprint, except for the Open lid model M73G. So they can be used in families.

I hope you will enjoy these also, I spent a lot of time in finding and choosing/combinating the textures.

FrankU, I will test and correct these models later this week or the next weekend and send them to you for the final testing.

Fred







EDIT:  Dohhh!! Sorry, I forgot one model, the M71F, the empty tank.......

[noahclem]

Poo progress i looking good 

[FrankU]

Hey! This looks good! Except maybe the greenish ladder in model M71C.

[mrbisonm]

Hey! This looks good! Except maybe the greenish ladder in model M71C.

Yeah, I know, when I saw the ugly green ladder in the preview picture, I changed it to the rusty red colour that the other has, but I was too lazy to make new pics.....

Frank, how many different machinery sheds you want ?...and maybe two different sizes?

Fred

[FrankU]

Uhh, pfff... well.  I don't.... eehhhh.... let me guess.

How many did you have in mind? Quality versus time calculation wise?

I'll take a look.



The machinery sheds I thought of are like these:

Steel clad in dark green. The roof is dark grey cladding. This one is very common. If you could make a large and a small one? You see there is one open side. The other side wall is much lower than on the open side. So no symmetrical roof. It would be great if you could make the LODs in such a way that it is possible to place props under it.


A bit similar.


A wooden one. Black planks and clay tiles or wave shaped cladding or asbestos or something similar. I don't know how these are called in english.


But something like this is welcome too.


The dark green, grey or black is important to me. There are already some useful sheds around (Newman and JMyers packs), but they have colours that we don't see very often in the Netherlands.
So for a Dutch set I'd like to have some in these colours.

In your barns you used some very useful textures. Like in:
M5: both the roof and the wood, although this wood texture would be nice to have in a horizontal pattern.
M6: both too
M8: the green is perfect, the roof is good.
M16: both roof and walls, although the walls would be good horizontally. That is more common in NL.

Enough input for now?

[mrbisonm]

Ok Frank, thanks for the pics. I will see that I make something like 3 models (dutch as the pictures show) with the textures you mentioned. I will make 3 more models which are common here and in the US. I haven't decided yet how many variations of each model I will make though. I see when the time comes.

It will be very hard to create special LOD's so that we can plop machinery and stuff under the bldgs. I don't even know if this is possible, but I will make the LOD's so tight in the front of the opening that we can at least partially put them under there and maybe with the angle of the view, we might get something quite nice looking.

For the shed there will be:

- 2 manure shedsexample: 
http://equiery.com/archives/2011FarmFixUp/ResizedPhotos/ManureShed.jpg

- 3 to 6 (or more) Dutch machinery sheds...as shown in FrankU's last post....

- 3 to 6 (or more) North-Am machinery sheds

example:
http://canadianmixedfarm.ca/pictures/buildings/shed.jpg
http://www.endurancesheds.com.au/wp-content/gallery/sheds/machinery-shed-1.jpg

- 3 Hay sheds

example:
http://www.shedmakers.com/FS57_Open_Hay_Shed.jpg

- 3 (or more) closed sheds

example:
http://www.allenfabs.co.uk/images/5.jpg

- 2 tool sheds

example:
http://www.buildingshedplans.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/farm-shed.jpg

- 3 silage sheds

example:
http://shop.thefarmsite.com/images/woodenfarmtoys/silageclampcover2.jpg

Then I will go on to the silos.

All comments and ideas are welcome........

Fred

[gn_leugim]

nothing like some manure before a snack XD good joob people

[FrankU]

Hi Fred,

I am sure it is possible to make the sheds in such a way that you can put things in it. I saw several models that allow this. One of them is in the Newman prop packs, another in the PEG SPAM proppack (Murimk, Paeng?) and I think Jim Myers knows how to do this. Maybe you ask them for info?

The set of sheds you show leave nothing to wish... It's just great!
If you make at least some of them with green walls and grey corrugated roofs I will be able to fit them into my Dutch farms. Wooden models will be great too, especially for the older farms (remember that you promised to replace the KWK sheds? If you don't do it I'll just leave the KWK prop pack as a dependency. No problem). And all other materials will come in handy here and there.

I am sure I need to relot my lots a lot...
But that's all in the game.

[mrbisonm]

Wooden models will be great too, especially for the older farms (remember that you promised to replace the KWK sheds? If you don't do it I'll just leave the KWK prop pack as a dependency. No problem). And all other materials will come in handy here and there.

Please refresh my memory, Frank.....what are the KWK sheds?

Don't worry, there will be wooden sheds for you. 

Fred