The FrankU and Nexis CO-OP

[Jack_wilds]

THX for the popping to update keeping us in the loop of sorts  ...

hoping that this project truly does get finished up and delivered...  yous guys put too much time and energy into it for it to languish...

what happened to JBSimio's clayhurst EP1 was a shame and a disapointment    anticipating that this farm projects will not suffer the same fate... 

have fun in the hay fields... canada, from what reports I read, did very well with the hay... 

[mrbisonm]

Don't worry Jack, unless I suddenly die, this project will see its end with a finish product.

Fred

[FrankU]

Hi Fred, Jack and all others who care about this project.

While Fred was busy I was too. With completely different things. Like some rearrangements in my house. I was making a wall in the attic, so that my daughter will have a room there. I have to do this between the other businesses of my life, so it does not go quick. I have started painting the wall this week and I hope I will finish it this weekend. Hopefully we can rearrange the rooms then. My daughter goes to the attic, my son into my old daughter's room, the workplace of me and my wife into the son's old room, the toys in the livingroom go to the children's rooms, and some furniture from the attic will be spread throughout the house...When that is finshed I will have a new workplace for me and my computer. Then I will have the opportunity to finish the Farm Fields set. It will be released a.s.a.p.
And then for the farm lots we have to wait until Fred finished his props.

Maybe I'll do some Maxis Replacement Rewards in the meantime.

[Reform]

I haven't commented much (as usual), but I am eager to see this project finished. You can count me among those who "care about this project." 

Then I will have the opportunity to finish the Farm Fields set. It will be released a.s.a.p.

That is the best news today.

- I

[Jack_wilds]

I am chiming in too to say I am expecting a finish farm communities thriving....   and a THX for not giving up on it...

[mrbisonm]

During the summermonths, I played around with some of props I rendered and wanted to test them ingame, so I made a quick farmlot. Here are some pics that I took.
Hope you can see that I can't just leave so many props lying around and not finish the whole set, right? I will indeed to continue and finish the MFP1, all I need is some more patience so I can clear up my RL things first.

This is only ONE farmlot that I tried out for the fun, it isn't even finished yet, (needs more props and better textures and overlays) Enjoy:


Fred

[Terring7]

Awesome

[FrankU]

Even for me there is a lot to see that you did not give me sneak previes of!
Great props, Fred!
Is the barn a new model or did you just push two standard barns together?

My computer is up and running again. Yesterday evening I installed it in a new room, I cleaned my desk and I am eager to pick up where I left two months ago.

[mrbisonm]

Is the barn a new model or did you just push two standard barns together?

Well Frank, The barn models (mainbuildings) are finished since earlier this year, and I have no intention to make more at this moment. You have most of them, only three more models have to be re-rendered (remember? you send them back to me after having tested and found out that there were some errors) I will do this as soon as I can.
The barn model you see are, as you said, actually two of the same models placed together. Since the LOD's are custom and tight, this is easily possible without any seams. You will be able to this with any of the mainbuilding models, I think.
This lot (shown above) was made sometime in late June. I wanted to see and just to try how my props look like ingame. I found out that several models have to be made smaller, no problem since re-rendering does not take an eternity. I will do this later too.(referring to the hayshed and the big blue balepile)

Glad you got your computer working again, because I will be sending some models again in a few weeks and then I will keep you busy until I have finished rendering them all. The models that we will find in the MFP1 are finished in gmax at about 98%. All there is left to do is render them. There will be some 35 less models than expected in the beginning though (still need some detailing and texturing), but it doesn't really show in the whole set since there are hundreds of models of all kinds left. But most likely, there will be a sort of an Add-On, which will contain all the left out models sometime later, if the demand is there. (I will show pics of some of them also later, when I be gmaxing again)

Greetings Frank,

Fred

[FrankU]

Hi Fred,

Well, I did not try to shove two barns into each other, but the result is very good! I feared for a minute that you had not resisted the temptation to make new models...
Anyway add-ons are never a problem here. The whole idea behind the plugins directory is add-ons and add-ons to add-ons.... So we work in the tradition that Maxis has started in 2003.
Anything you send me will be used in my farm lots. And add-ons that are sent later will probably result in additionaly added Farm Lots add-ons. Maybe meanwhile one of my BNL team members makes additional models of more Dutch Farmhouses, so these can be added to the already additional add-ons of the original add-ons to the game... You get the idea, I guess?

No prop will be lost in the proces!

[FrankU]

Well.... slowly I am getting back to work here! 
Jim Melvin sent me a very thorough report on my Farm Fields Set some time ago already.
This report raised some issues concerning how I should make my lots even better. Some of these issues will maybe pop up in this thread when I find out I cannot solve them myself.

The first question I want your opinion on is not a modding type, but a visual type.

Some of you may remember this image.


These greenhouses had nightlights. I simply had put some small streetlight props inside the greenhouses. I was not too happy with the effect and as someone told me (was it Maarten?) this could give trouble with the LRM. So I decided to throw the streetlights out..

While searching for something completely different I encountered the prop exemplar property "Self Illuminate". I added this property to the vegetable props that are inside my greenhosues. Now these lots look like this.

As you can see props with this property set to true look like they are in bright daylight.

Zoom 2


Zoom 3


Zoom 4


Zoom 5


The advantage of this property is that the props look like they are in light. So it resembles some kind of illuminated greenhouse. When you look closely you cans ee that the props are not really lit. Shadows are not there, there is no light on the floor etc.

What, please my friends, do you think. Should I use this property or should I put my vegetables in the dark?
Surely I could give you both, but that would mean that a lot of you will have to go through the installed files and delete unwanted ones.....

[vortext]

That's a nifty property you found there Frank. It'll come in handy sometime. 

As for the greenhouses, well, first I should say some nightlights is better than no nightlights. However, a proper greenhouse would light up the surrounding area like a candle, as I'm sure you're aware of. In that regard they still fall short to convey something like the Westland at night. 

Why don't the glasshouse models have nightlights to begin with? Maybe Fred can explain?

[gn_leugim]

I have to agree. the propertie you found is great, but this is not the best case to apply it IMO

[mrbisonm]

Hey Frank, great to see you back on this, I should be back right after my last and final "appearance" in court in three weeks. After this I will take a few days to relax and then get myself back online again.

To be honest, I do not actually find this property "good looking", although it is a great find. I liked it better before.

Why don't the glasshouse models have nightlights to begin with? Maybe Fred can explain?

Easy to answer: I do not know how to make nightlights with gmax and the tutorial I found don't seem to work for me. I was going to learn that a little later, buit with all the real life problems I encountered it was postponed (again). I know now, that I need a patch of somekind to have it to get to work in gmax, have no idea which one though. I will figure that out one day.

Fred

[rambuckel]

Frank the greenhouses look brilliant!!! I really love the effects you added!

[FrankU]

Hi Erik, gn_leugim, Fred and Theresa,

Thanks for the feedback. The three first replies were very consistent and also fitted to my own opinion, but then Theresa: your enthousiasm makes me doubt. Do I delete the property? I think I will in the end. Or sould I make the upload extra complex by adding a version with and one without self-illumination? I think that will give some less experienced users too many headaches....
I'll delete the property.

So there was my first question. I have several more.

Now here is the second question I'd like to hear your opinion about.

It concerns shadows of props.

Here I give you some images of crops in different seasons. Take a very close look.

Rubus Idaeus


Humulus Lupulus


In both images you can see that the crops change during the seasons. But what is not changing is the shadows!
Jim Melvin pointed me to this in his scrutineering report. I myself had never noticed it and never read about it anywhere. What we found out is that a RKT4 prop with 2 states always shows the shadow of state 0. The shadow of state 1 are ignored.
So the Rubus prop was made with the full grown rubus as state 0 and the Humulus was made with empty posts and wires as state 0.

Now here is my question and please pick your answer:
1. Can we live with this and do we keep the props as they are now.
2. Should I remove the shadows altogether.
3. Or should I make separate timed props of empty and full grown props that are stacked onto each other, so that we will see the correct shadows? This would mean I have to make a RKT4 prop of an empty Humulus with a visible and an invisible state and one of a full grown Humulus with a visible and an invisible state and put them both on the same spot on the lot. I then must do this also for Rubus and maybe Malus. Ths means: quite some work, but visually the best solution.
Edit: ohh.... I am not even certain this will work. Maybe I should have experimented first.

Thank you for your feedback!
This set is getting better and better....

[rambuckel]

My knowledge is not profound enough to really discuss this seriously, but from my point of view this question is propably a little bit too sophisticated to really matter. With the performance of the game in mind it might even be a good solution to remove the shadows. The areas covered by these props can be pretty large and every single shadow influences the performance especially on larger maps. I wonder if the shadows are really essential.

That's just my two cents I can add to this discussion  

[vortext]

What we found out is that a RKT4 prop with 2 states always shows the shadow of state 0. The shadow of state 1 are ignored.

Seasonal flora too uses RKT4, I'm well aware of the issue. 

This would mean I have to make a RKT4 prop of an empty Humulus with a visible and an invisible state and one of a full grown Humulus with a visible and an invisible state and put them both on the same spot on the lot.

Yes, this is the way to solve it indeed.

[APSMS]

It sounds like the last option is feasible, since you only have to make sure that the invisible model is the second one. I think this happens already with Girafe's seasonal flora during winter where full shadows are displayed behind empty trees.

Thankfully the problem is visual only, and I would prefer shadows with the crops, since stuff without shadows always appears (to me) to be floating and not attached to the ground. Though my computer runs faster without them, this bothers me to the point that I prefer to build with shadows on all the time, rather than just turn them on for screenshots and evaluations and the like.

[FrankU]

Hmmm, asking questions always produces replies that were not foreseen.
Certainly it is feasible. I even can work with one permanent prop: the wires and posts. Further I need three (for variation) timed props that appear and disappear on the exact same spot.
But there are disadvantages:
1. The use of my props would be less simple for less experienced lotters
2. We have more props, although with this set up only one per farm field type.
3. I would have to scrutinize all almost 100 of my Farm Lots for these props, because I use several of these props also in the backyards and kitchen gardens of my farms... That is probably even the largest job. 

But I confess: I'd rather have it good than quick. So I guess I am going to improve the props.