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A Map of the Netherlands (In progress)

Started by brechtje, August 04, 2011, 02:44:49 PM

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brechtje

Greetings to all,

I want to show the result i've untill now with my new project, a map of the Netherlands. As you will see, i'll have still a lot to do, but i'm pleased with what i currently have. Please tell me what you think of it.

PS: I'm still new in terraforming.



First picture of my project. Zeeland, Bits of Flanders, and Zuid - Holland with the rivers are mostly done.



Added 2 Islands in the Oosterschelde: Neeltje Jans and Robbeneiland. Lowered the terrein to near sealevel on "Schouwen - Duiveland" and "Noord - Beveland" to get the typical, Dutch flat landscape. I also added the "Biesbos National Park".



Added more, small islands in "Veerse Meer", "Grevelingen", and "Haringvliet". Lowered the terrain of "Zuid - Beveland" and "Goeree - Overflakkee".



Lowered the terrain in  the parst of East - and West - Flanders, and added the "Verdronken land van Saeftinge national park".



Lowered the terrain of half the map, and completed the river "Meuse". I also made the "Verdronken land van Saeftinge national park" smaller to be more realistic.



Done most of the "Waal" river.



Completed the "Waal" river and the "Rhine".

And this is what it looks like in the game for now...



Right now, i've lowered all the terrain, and i'm currently busy making the riverand sea debts more realisic, and adding more underwater sandbanks for realism.



art128

That map is already looking great! It looks promising. The rivers are looking by far realistic I must say. Thought I think some of the areas in the Netherlands are under the sea, anyway idea how to do that in game ? (as it will already make water)
I'll take a quiet life... A handshake of carbon monoxide.

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brechtje

Quote from: art128 on August 04, 2011, 04:00:05 PM
That map is already looking great! It looks promising. The rivers are looking by far realistic I must say. Thought I think some of the areas in the Netherlands are under the sea, anyway idea how to do that in game ? (as it will already make water)

Yes indeed. About the half of the Netherlands is under sealevel. Onfortunately, that is impossible to achieve in SC4, so i have to neglet that, and try to make it as low as possible before it comes under water.

FrankU

Indeed, there is not much you can do. I know only one option: do not use in game sea water at all and make all water by plopable water. A lot of work!
But just lowering the terrain and making it flat will be realistic enough for game play.

Very good work Brechtje! I hope my computer will be able to eat the whole map when you finish and I download it....  &apls

Paul 999

That is so cool!  :o

Zeeland ziet er erg goed uit!

Maar waarom zijn alle steden vlakken zo klein, kun je niet alleen grote gebruiken voor deze map. Dat lijkt me ook veel handiger wanneer je deze regio gebruikt.

Korot

That indeed looks really good!  :thumbsup:

Will probably download it, might be nice to rebuild the Netherlands as close as possible (though you of course have scaling issues). Related to that: What is the actual scale? My WAG is 1:6, but that is, as said, just a guess.

Regards,
Korot

brechtje

#6
Quote from: Paul 999 on August 05, 2011, 07:33:18 AM
That is so cool!  :o

Zeeland ziet er erg goed uit!

Maar waarom zijn alle steden vlakken zo klein, kun je niet alleen grote gebruiken voor deze map. Dat lijkt me ook veel handiger wanneer je deze regio gebruikt.

I've made a mix of small, middle and large city's for scaling, and to make large city's (the largest blocks), towns (the middle blocks) and village's (the small blocks).

Quote from: Korot on August 05, 2011, 08:25:31 AM
That indeed looks really good!  :thumbsup:

Will probably download it, might be nice to rebuild the Netherlands as close as possible (though you of course have scaling issues). Related to that: What is the actual scale? My WAG is 1:6, but that is, as said, just a guess.

Regards,
Korot

I've absolutely no idea what scale it is. I've just prrinted a blanck map of the Netherlands on a sheet of paper with squares upon it. 1 square on the paper is equal to a small village in the game (so in real life 1km x 1 km). The map i'm making is 41 upon 41 small villages, which means it is 41 upon 41 km, or 1681 km². As I remember correctly, the actual Netherlands is 46.000 km². So you can actually calculate what the scale is, but i'm not that good in mathematics...

Paul 999

Quote from: brechtje on August 05, 2011, 10:14:47 AM
I've made a mix of small, middle and large city's for scaling, and to make large city's (the largest blocks), towns (the middle blocks) and village's (the small blocks).

Ja maar dan is iedereen gebonden aan die keuze om zijn steden te plaatsen. Ik vind dat niet handig en ik zou gaan voor enkel grote vlakken. Iedereen kan dan zelf kiezen waar hij/zij grote of kleine plaatsen wil maken.

Grote vlakken geven veel meer flexibiliteit. Je kunt zelfs meerdere kleine dorpen maken in een groot vlak.

Overigens hebben bijna alle regio's die te downloaden zijn alleen maar grote vlakken omdat dit gewoon veel handigere speelt.

Maar het is maar een suggestie ik weet ook niet of dit nog gewijzigd kan worden. Ik zou het in elk geval veel fijner vinden.

art128

paul, keep in mind that English is the main language here, and that not everyone can understand Dutch! ;)
I'll take a quiet life... A handshake of carbon monoxide.

Props & Texture Catalog

Korot

#9
@Paul: Assuming the map is uploaded in a SC4MAP format (for the mapper and/or terraformer), what stops you from making your own config.bmp file with only large tiles? Well, mostly large tiles since 4 doesn't exactly go into 41, but that just leaves a half-ring of small tiles around the edge, and if done along the northern and western ends, most of those tiles will just be in water, which is mostly use-less when it comes to developing a city (says he who lives on the sea-floor  ::)). I, myself, prefer med-tiles, cause I fear my pc won't handle large developed tiles (big high-rises) very well. So, just like city-building style, tile size is a personal preference as well, and one that you can easily adjust yourself, before/during rendering the map.

Edit: About the maps/scale: Brechtje, the problem with that surface figure is that the Netherlands aren't exactly a square. However, a more educated guess can be made with it, and my calculations net me a scale of 1:5,23. Taking the mentioned form issue and the fact that your map consists of more than just the Netherlands (I see, parts of Belgium and Germany, also, I think that the surface area you gave is without the water, but I'm not sure), my original guess of 1:6 seems quite accurate.

Regards,
Korot

Regards,
Korot

brechtje

Quote from: Korot on August 06, 2011, 09:31:26 AM
@Paul: Assuming the map is uploaded in a SC4MAP format (for the mapper and/or terraformer), what stops you from making your own config.bmp file with only large tiles? Well, mostly large tiles since 4 doesn't exactly go into 41, but that just leaves a half-ring of small tiles around the edge, and if done along the northern and western ends, most of those tiles will just be in water, which is mostly use-less when it comes to developing a city (says he who lives on the sea-floor  ::)). I, myself, prefer med-tiles, cause I fear my pc won't handle large developed tiles (big high-rises) very well. So, just like city-building style, tile size is a personal preference as well, and one that you can easily adjust yourself, before/during rendering the map.

Edit: About the maps/scale: Brechtje, the problem with that surface figure is that the Netherlands aren't exactly a square. However, a more educated guess can be made with it, and my calculations net me a scale of 1:5,23. Taking the mentioned form issue and the fact that your map consists of more than just the Netherlands (I see, parts of Belgium and Germany, also, I think that the surface area you gave is without the water, but I'm not sure), my original guess of 1:6 seems quite accurate.

Regards,
Korot

Regards,
Korot

Indeed, i myself prefer a mix of small, middle and large tiles, some only likes large, other small. It's just a personal matter. I've made it like this, and i don't know how to change it without a lot of work.

Well, This map is indeed larger then the original Netherlands (which is 46.000 km²). This is what i learned here in Flanders in high school :). I've made it in a square, because i didn't know SC4terraformer yet then, when i started with this map ( i first made it in SC4 itself, so i had to make a square. That is how pieces of Flanders and Germany is in this map, en the most southern part of Dutch Limburg is missing. But i think that your guess og a scale of about 1:6 can be quite correct.

WC_EEND

Quote from: art128 on August 06, 2011, 08:01:34 AM
paul, keep in mind that English is the main language here, and that not everyone can understand Dutch! ;)

I can translate if you want :P

Back ontopic: it seems that you've included a fairly large bit of Germany (based on my Google Maps-based rough estimate ;D)

Xander
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brechtje

#12
Quote from: WC_EEND on August 06, 2011, 11:10:25 AM
Quote from: art128 on August 06, 2011, 08:01:34 AM
paul, keep in mind that English is the main language here, and that not everyone can understand Dutch! ;)

I can translate if you want :P

Back ontopic: it seems that you've included a fairly large bit of Germany (based on my Google Maps-based rough estimate ;D)

Xander

Well, there's a part of Germany included, yes, but not that large. I had to do this to get a square.

brechtje

UPDATE: I've worked on my map again, and have completed tHe coastline of North-Holland and Texel. I'm currently working on the IJselmeer.



Please do tell me what you think of it...

Korot

Texel looks a bit too big. Other than that, it looks great.  :thumbsup:

Regards,
Korot

brechtje

Quote from: Korot on September 13, 2011, 12:37:55 PM
Texel looks a bit too big. Other than that, it looks great.  :thumbsup:

Regards,
Korot

Well, it is possible that Texel is a little bit too big, but it is a big island nontheless. But i think i can wipe some land of the map :)

cogeo

My question is why make it manually and not use some DEM data instead? This is a lot of work, and the result can't be as accurate.

Also, I will agree with some of the commenters here, the map is too large, which makes it hardly playable. You will notice a long delay every time you exit a city (the game recalculates a lot of regional data). And as the region is basically flat, lacking distinctive geographical features (except of course for the islands, gulfs and rivers/canals) it can prove boring to play. So increasing scale (decreasing size) would be something worth to consider (and use DEM data). I know it's not very encouraging to say someone scrap you work so far and start over, but I think it's the best suggestion. I have uploaded a region of northern Greece, using a scale of about 1:6, and the map is still huge. This couldn't be accurately scaled, I would have at most made a plain with a river, and maybe some mountain in the background (for the scenery), but in no case a region like that.

wallasey

I will agree with Cogeo, and infact he answered a question I had going anyway!

The bigger the region, the slower the game will be. I tried using the config from dobdriver's Anglesey-North Wales map, but the gameplay was very slow! Now I know why I am glad that I moved to a smaller config!

I wish you the best of luck all the same, but heed the advice of the above!!!

FrankU

Maybe there is another option. You cold make the whole map the way you are doing now, but also include sections of it as separate playable regions. Someone who really wants to play the whole country can have it, but others can play only one region, lik the Randstad, or Friese Meren or Limburger heuvelland or something like that.

And Cogeo.... please consider our Dutch feelings. Playing a flat area is what we are supposed to do in this country. We do it since 2500 years.

brechtje

Quote from: cogeo on September 13, 2011, 02:14:41 PM
My question is why make it manually and not use some DEM data instead? This is a lot of work, and the result can't be as accurate.

Also, I will agree with some of the commenters here, the map is too large, which makes it hardly playable. You will notice a long delay every time you exit a city (the game recalculates a lot of regional data). And as the region is basically flat, lacking distinctive geographical features (except of course for the islands, gulfs and rivers/canals) it can prove boring to play. So increasing scale (decreasing size) would be something worth to consider (and use DEM data). I know it's not very encouraging to say someone scrap you work so far and start over, but I think it's the best suggestion. I have uploaded a region of northern Greece, using a scale of about 1:6, and the map is still huge.
Thanks for your post. Let me answer it.

- I make the map manually because i want to do it like this. I want to enjoy making a map and put my best into it. I don't want to work with (easier) methods. I know it is not 100% accurate, butit's not my intention to be 100% accurate. Now, it is 95% the same, and i'm very proud on myself for doing it alone, without DEM (or other data).
- The map is flat because of two reasons:
     * Ever been to the Netherlands (or the Low countries)? As you can tell of the name, the land is low and basicly flat. 60 meters is very high and rare in most of the Netherlands, so off course i won't make mountains on this map, 'cause it's not realistic. If you think that's boring, then don't use this map, and centrainly don't go on holiday in the Netherlands, Belgium or Luxemburg.
     * It has no geography simply because i'm busy making the coastline at the moment. I still have to put the hills on this map. It's far from ready
- The map is indeed huge. I first made it for my own pleasure, but then i thought it would be nicer to share this map with anybody who's interested. If you're interested in recreating the Netherlands, then this map is for you. If not, then don't download it. I can't scale it down, because i don't know how to do it, and i'm not going to begin from scrap, and i won't start over (this has taken months already).
It's very possible i'll make smaller maps in the long term with more like regions with only Friesland, Gelderland, Drenthe and Overijssel for example.

Quote from: cogeo on September 13, 2011, 02:14:41 PM
This couldn't be accurately scaled, I would have at most made a plain with a river, and maybe some mountain in the background (for the scenery), but in no case a region like that.


As said earlier. I'm not interested in making this 100% accurate with help of maps. And you'll have to search forever if you want to find a place in the Netherlands were you can find a plain with a river and a mountain the the background. If you think you can do it better, then go ahead and make one to. But i'm proud of what i've achieved thus far.