RHW (RealHighway) - Development and Support

[DAB_City]

^^ Correction: They are placed upon the RHW-4 Type A1 and B1 ramps, preferably the draggable versions.

I got them to work on the plopable RHW-4 A1/B1 ramps once, but not any more recently

[Tarkus]

Now imagine what will be when RHW-6 have their multi-level  system.

It already does.



Ditto with the MIS:



Of course, those same network setups are the "easy" stuff (well, by comparison--they still required a few thousand lines of RUL2 code to stabilize).  It'll get . . . interesting . . . once I really start going on having two different RHW networks at different heights crossing like that, let alone other crosslinks with non-RHW override content.

And those of you who have wanted to stick an El-Rail line in between two ERHW-4s and have it be able to cross over ground-level RHW networks: it's now fixed, at least over ground-level RHW-4. 



My current RUL2 test build, including just the new code for the MIS, RHW-3, RHW-4 (excluding DDRHW-4) and RHW-6S, is now at 559000 lines.

-Alex

[MandelSoft]

Not sure if I'm looking at the new RHW or an M.C. Escher drawing...

[apeguy]

Incredible. Looks like Project OE is really starting to come together.

One thing though, it looks like the pillars on the L4 RHW6 are missing. A minor thing compared to the progress that's been made with the RHW though.

[ivo_su]

WT... this is more than amazing  and exactly what I imagined yesterday in my thoughts. Alex whatever happens you never have to release this  awesome miracle. Can you imagine when this is  done - for us not to remain something to dream  more.
So  now more seriously. Indeed, progress has been real and I  even dare to say that things start moving faster than I expected.
But  I'm afraid to imagine how big of a set of ramps and transitions will need for this multi-level system.  lines with RUL's is something  discouraging. I do not know  exactly when David will collect 1 million views of the 3RR, but I am afraid  rows RUL's of NAM as  you will quickly reach  the million.

- Ivo

[TheOC]

I made this post almost a year ago...

http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/4279/rhwsucks.png

I'm sorry, but I don't think a page-long process is really necessary just to have a simple overpass that in the end looks like garbage. Not only this, but you can fit 2 or 3 default highway-road interchanges in the amount of space you can put 1 RHW-road ramp at minimal size. If you have several-lane highways, which basically implies this could be used in big cities, how do you fit a bunch of ramps together if you're routing this through a city?

I'm sticking with the default highways. They aren't great, but at least they aren't broken.

I was told to wait for another version to come out which would supposedly fix things. I did, and it didn't.



Take your pick. The ugly-looking Maxis one that doesn't require watching youtube videos and raging, or the good-looking ones which are impossible to fit to your liking. As nice as the mod has always looked, I don't think that it's worth using if it requires mass amounts of destruction to place into a city; and if it doesn't even allow you to choose whether you're placing an entrance or exit (although you went through the trouble of adding a rotation feature to the rest of the pieces), which is why the ramps are completely backwards in the above image.

I'm not trying to bash your work - I realize a lot of time went into this. However, if it's a total pain in the ass to use and ends up looking like an eyesore, what's the point.

[GDO29Anagram]

Take your pick. The ugly-looking Maxis one that doesn't require watching youtube videos and raging, or the good-looking ones which are impossible to fit to your liking. As nice as the mod has always looked, I don't think that it's worth using if it requires mass amounts of destruction to place into a city; and if it doesn't even allow you to choose whether you're placing an entrance or exit (although you went through the trouble of adding a rotation feature to the rest of the pieces), which is why the ramps are completely backwards in the above image.

I'm not trying to bash your work - I realize a lot of time went into this. However, if it's a total pain in the ass to use and ends up looking like an eyesore, what's the point.

1. The reason it takes up massive amount of space because MHWs take up TOO LITTLE. How many highways take up only 70-something feet of width? MHWs are far too unrealistic.

2. You've never taken enough time to learn or practise. Of course it takes a lot to get used to, but if you never take the time to learn, then there's no point of trying to convince you.

3. By choosing MHWs, you sacrifice realism but gain an easy means of building highway infrastructure that will essentially get almost no updates (with the exception of jdenm8's modification that's currently a work-in-progress). By choosing RHW, you boost the realism exponentially, but must also commit yourself to essentially re-learning everything you know, and you obviously have to sacrifice entire city blocks to make room. There is always a trade-off. Are you going to sacrifice realism or the time and effort needed to learn and boost realism?

4. People play for realism, which is why mods such as RHW exist. Only those who can make the sacrifice of either time or mass destructing an entire city sector can fully appreciate these things.

5. There have been rotational bugs in the past, especially with the RHW-4 ramps. That could explain your backwards ramp problem. Did you know you can drag them instead?

6. The tool is only as powerful as the person using it. If you don't know how to use said tool, whatever you make it with will essentially be substandard.

Finally,... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3Kme8dZsGk Yes, they HAVE to be this big. My benchmark of measuring how big an interchange has to be, in the case of this cloverleaf, is it has to take up a 64x64 area, or the size of a small city tile. However, experienced users can shrink a cloverleaf to be about two or three times the size of an MHW equivalent. Not horrifically large, but small enough to be practical in design and size.

Also,... RHW FAQ 16 to back up my point (which needs a little bit of updating).

The RHW and its interchange system is designed primarily for the construction of at least somewhat realistically-scaled interchanges, hence the name RealHighway (consider that Maxis' intended scale is 1 SC4 Tile = 16 meters = 50 feet).  Obviously this is a game and is only made to approximate a facet of the real world, but even still, the game's default highway system and its interchanges are quite drastically underscale when compared to the game's designers' intended dimensions and to the other transit networks in-game (as much as 50% in many situations).  This also poses difficulty for any sort of interface between RHWs and Maxis Highways.

That being said, there are some setups, particularly with interchanges between two RHWs, that, right now, may seem to especially place a strain on space.  It is our intent to slowly fill this area in with creative new pieces which allow for more compact and complex interchanges while retaining some semblance of realistic scale.  The introduction of multi-height elevated networks, planned for a future release (tentatively called Version 5.0) will also have a dramatic impact.

In addition, if one is creative enough, it is possible to still make relatively compact but somewhat realistically scaled interchanges with the existing pieces.

[Tarkus]

I was told to wait for another version to come out which would supposedly fix things. I did, and it didn't.

I don't entirely understand what you're trying to do.  Looking back at the response you got:

The overpasses look like "garbage" because they're 5 years old. There should be new, better-looking and more flexibe ones in the next NAM, or there's a very good cosmetic mod made by Nekopanch (which I personally use) available on the Japanese site HIDE and SEEK. (don't forget to translate the instructions)

jdenm8 is referring to the actual models for the Road overpasses.  And those were fixed in NAM Version 30.  The fact of the matter is, the way your setup was in your post last year, you had two alternatives.  Let's take a look at the image (which, I should add, was given the lovely name of "rhwsucks.png"):

Here's the two alternatives to what you built:
1) Bulldoze some houses and make a minor realignment to the road at the bottom of the image.
2) Elevate the highway and run the Road straight under it.

Given how tight that particular situation was, you would have had the exact same choices if you were using a Maxis Highway instead of an RHW-4.  You could not have fit a Maxis Highway setup in there either without doing one of those two things (and I just tested it to verify--you need at least 4 tiles completely clear on ether side of the Maxis Highway in order to have an auto-overpass show up, 1 tile more than is required with using the NAM Road Viaducts with the RHW).  It's not a shortfall with either highway system--you were trying to do something that just didn't work.  And I think even the Maxis Highway "diehards" out there would agree.

And I wouldn't exactly consider this particular setup particularly massive in the least--this is something you can do with the RHW, and have been able to do since RHW Version 4.0 (it'd be a two tiles longer with RHW Version 3.0, because we didn't have the "starterless" ground-to-elevated ramp then):


And that's of realistic scale, I might add (matches up pretty well with some of the I-84 exits in Portland).

I don't think that it's worth using if it requires mass amounts of destruction to place into a city; and if it doesn't even allow you to choose whether you're placing an entrance or exit (although you went through the trouble of adding a rotation feature to the rest of the pieces), which is why the ramps are completely backwards in the above image.

It does allow you to rotate.  All the pieces do--we wouldn't have released the mod if they didn't.  If it's not rotating, you've probably got a starter piece in the way that's preventing you from placing the piece properly (the terrain there doesn't look like it would be causing problems with the starter stubs on the ends of the ramp interfaces.  Alternatively, consider using a Draggable Ramp Interface--described in the Readme.

I'm not trying to bash your work - I realize a lot of time went into this.

Yet, you name your files "rhwsucks.png" and "whatthehellisthis.png" and follow up that sentence with this one:

However, if it's a total pain in the ass to use and ends up looking like an eyesore, what's the point.

The point is, if you don't want an eyesore, you're going to have to use the bulldozer or elevate the highway, read the documentation, and learn how to use the game's transit network tools.

-Alex

[dedgren]

Chiming in...

How many highways take up only 70-something feet of width?

U.S Interstate highway rights-of-way outside urban areas are usually between 300 and 600 feet/about 90-180 meters in width.  New/reconstructed urban freeways are creeping up there toward that lower number.

@TheOC:

I'm not trying to bash your work - I realize a lot of time went into this. However, if it's a total pain in the ass to use and ends up looking like an eyesore, what's the point

Saying it's not bashing doesn't make it not bashing.  The pic names are additional evidence of that.  Constructive criticism is always welcome at SC4D and often leads to improvement all around.  Bashing just doesn't get anyone anywhere.  Cost you two K-points, too.


David

[pimmapman]

  I can't wait to use all this incredible stuff.. I look up to you guys, I really do. Your work is amazing.

[Wiimeiser]

For the RHWsucks pic it might be easier to elevate the highway, or you could do lateral ramps using the Wye pieces

[jdenm8]

Actually, there are variations of overpasses that would fit there, we have many that replaced Level Crossings here in Australia which have the approaches parallel to the line and either have a 90° or 45° turn to cross the line.

Also, I can fit THIS (If I'd used RHW-4 and not RHW-6C):


or this:


Into exactly the same width.


Not all intersections need to be like This:


or this:


(Sorry about PNGs)

[MandelSoft]

Over the past few years, I've learned to completely abandon the use of the Maxis Highway and switch to Real Highway. Yes, I had to deal with space issues and yes, interchanges really take up that much space in Real Life too. In Real Life, we call this Urban Planning. With that being said, when you have the patience, the results can look awesome, and it doesn't have to take up much space...













Yes, I'm even used to build longer ramps for overpasses:




Again, it's not the tools you have, It's how you use them.

Best,
Maarten

[Will12]

Ooh RHW MHS looks coooooool as. So need L1or4 for my twin ddrhw diamonds!

[noahclem]

Pretty sweet interchanges Maarten and JD    I particularly like both of your second pictures.

[[Delta ²k5]]

It's annoying to hear people complaining about RHW without any reason... you'll have only to look at the six (!) lanes on the MHW to see that they are way to small... It should use only 4 instead... I think that the MHW could be usefull if it would be completely re-modded as something like a RHW4 with an concrete barrier in the middle for urban needs (I don't know ATM if this is what jdenm8 has in the works)... on the other side you can use it to build tunnels (But that's a side point... I use rivit's great tunnels... they are all the same style, you can place them next to each other and you can build 3-lane OWR tunnels which connect seamless to a RHW6s! Download them here: http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/files/file/26943-tunnel-modd/



So, the possibilities are nearly endless and that's what the RHW stands for...

Sorry to sound rude, but if you hate don't like the RHW: delete it, go ahead with your MHW's and leave this place.

I love it and it's getting even better. Oh, and also we have all to thank Tarkus and the whole NAM team for their work over the last years - without getting even payed!

[ivo_su]

I have a special question to Alex (Tarkus) which accompanies rivit's tunnels and to what extent they are functionally active. I personally find quite promising using this method if it works properly of course. If we hypothetically imagine three parallel road spent together, it's easy to have a third tunnel to each other right? Then a piece from each end of the 3 tunnel would make them look like TLA or AVE-7-6 can easily contact the RHW-6C
As long as everything works correctly, I think it is actually a tunnel for each network NWM / RHW with the help of a network basis. Of course, Steve could say anything on the permeability of these tunnels and you observe the correct capacity in them.

- Ivo

[Tarkus]

I've not had a chance to really give rivit's mod a go yet . . . it does, however, look quite promising in that regard.

-Alex

[mike3775]

Take your pick. The ugly-looking Maxis one that doesn't require watching youtube videos and raging, or the good-looking ones which are impossible to fit to your liking. As nice as the mod has always looked, I don't think that it's worth using if it requires mass amounts of destruction to place into a city; and if it doesn't even allow you to choose whether you're placing an entrance or exit (although you went through the trouble of adding a rotation feature to the rest of the pieces), which is why the ramps are completely backwards in the above image.

I'm not trying to bash your work - I realize a lot of time went into this. However, if it's a total pain in the ass to use and ends up looking like an eyesore, what's the point.

I USED to be like you in my thinking of the RHW.  I loathed it when it first came out and swore up and down left and right I would NEVER use it, because it was a huge pain in the behind to use. 

But then I wanted to split a highway to go around a lake I had created in one of my cities and the only way to do it was with the RHW(even with a lack of bridges which hinders it still to this day), so I played around with the RHW for a while and over time I started using it instead of the MHW.  I still like MHW at times, but when I start new cities, I always start laying the roadways with RHW instead of MHW and use MHW as express lanes in the middle of the RHW.

[shinkansen1]

Take your pick. The ugly-looking Maxis one that doesn't require watching youtube videos and raging, or the good-looking ones which are impossible to fit to your liking. As nice as the mod has always looked, I don't think that it's worth using if it requires mass amounts of destruction to place into a city; and if it doesn't even allow you to choose whether you're placing an entrance or exit (although you went through the trouble of adding a rotation feature to the rest of the pieces), which is why the ramps are completely backwards in the above image.

I'm not trying to bash your work - I realize a lot of time went into this. However, if it's a total pain in the ass to use and ends up looking like an eyesore, what's the point.

Well, you don't need to use the RHW depending on your aim. If you are looking to make cities as realistic as possible, then the RHW is definitely recommended. However, as with making anything realistic (including zones), it takes a great deal of time, effort, and lots of practice. I however have a much different style of playing SC4. I like to challenge the RCI demand and push it to the limits. When I play my cities, I don't make much of anything realistic in terms of zones or transit infrastructure, and I like to make use of whatever space I can find; mostly for zoning. In my case, I feel that MHW works much better for me than RHW. I also really love that intersections and ramps come pre-made in the MHW so that I don't have to spend about an hour making one intersection or making what I consider to be an oversized ramp.

In my opinion, if you want your highways to look realistic and not so "ugly" (I don't think MHW is ugly), then use the RHW. If you want something simplistic, space-efficient, and easy to use right from the menu, then stick with MHW.