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3RR-ST - Page 42

Started by dedgren, January 13, 2009, 10:31:26 PM

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This is the SC4D archive of Page 42 of Three Rivers Region at Simtropolis.  Comments are locked for now.

Page 42
#1230 11/06/2006 10:21 AM

  Welcome to page 42 !!!!
I just love getting to do that. LOL

Okay David my friend,
 Once again I have found another topic in your CJ that fascinates me.  I have always felt there was something "not quite right" about the scale of my rivers in SC4.  If they looked navagatable, they looked too big for everything else. And if I made them so they looked right to my eye for things like, the road sizes etc, they didn't look like a ship could possibly travel along them without hanging on a sand bar somewhere.   The other issue about rivers I have is about the height of the banks and the bridges crossing the rivers.  Maxis must have some VERY tall ferries. It seems to me that they should be able to pass under lower bridges than they do. (Oh well maybe someone will make a mod for lessening the height requirement to something more realistic. I have the zero height bridge mod installed but that doesn't fix the fact that the ferries can't go under a bridge with 60 meters of clearence.)
Maybe you should look at some other areas along the Mississippi. Like maybe Dubuque, IA. J/K  Actually just south of here is an interesting stretch of the river. It is Savanah, IL. The river gets very narrow there. Just a thought.
 Hey, maybe SC5 will have rivers that actually flow down hill. Then you could build dams and locks along them like a real river.  Just another random thought.
Can't wait to see more on this topic.

#1231 11/06/2006 12:15 PM

David - I love seeing SC4 scale related to real life, and you're a master at it. Seeing the SC grid superimposed onto RL pics of rivers was real interesting, and will definately help me with my scale in Sim City. I'd give you a link to some Miami River information, but I can't find anything any good. Great work recently, should be fun watching as 256 tiles fill up..

#1232 11/06/2006 12:28 PM

I never thought too much about scaling, even less about river wideness. As long I can have the bridge crossing and have enough height for a ferry, then it's ok. There is one or two bridges that require less terrain height to allow ferries under. Anyway, most of my CJs have been built on the mountains, so, my rivers or streams have been done with ploppable water, no ferries or ships in the mountains ;)
#1233 11/06/2006 01:02 PM

hi my friend thats an awesome region you are making and terraforming you have done well,awesome work
#1234 11/06/2006 01:28 PM

Here's Sunday's region view (from Region Census with a few extra proprietary processing steps) of 3RR. I'm trying to do 10 quads or so a day.

[I posted the following along with the above pic over on the "Show Us Your Region View" thread [ linkie ]:

QuoteI am in the process of doing basic through superdetail terraforming of the entire region prior to building anything. I've done the basic stuff in rows one and two at the top of the pic, about half of row three and two on the left end of row four. I'm planning that city development would be a collaborative process- if you are interested in participating, check by my CJ from time to time. That phase is still down the road a bit.

I am making a little list...

UPDATE: (11-7-06 4:15 a.m. AST GMT-9) Here's this morning's Region Census view.

Click here [ linkie ] for a much larger version (132kb). As you can see, we're coming up on a quarter of the way done with the basic stuff. I'm hoping for at least half by the weekend.

Here's a few closer-in pics.




The detailed banks of the rivers and the islands look even better in the game itself.


n.b.: I'll do anything to call your attention to my previous post on river and stream width- if you haven't seen it yet, please check it out here [ linkie ]. DE
#1235 11/07/2006 12:37 AM

Very interesting thoughts here David, keep it up!
#1236 11/07/2006 02:23 AM

thats an excellent region my friend i am looking forward to seeing more,awesome pic
#1237 11/07/2006 07:24 AM

its coming along...
#1238 11/07/2006 07:40 AM

this CJ is an intereting one, at first you region was too small and wishy washy with rocks for my liking, nothing personal great work, just not my thing, then you expanded the region and put in some higher density, i gainedan amount of interest, being mathematical ans seeing 16 squared i decided to drop by again, and shall it be known i shall lurk no more, your project is amazing and i cannot wait to see how this monster region develops.
#1239 11/07/2006 07:44 AM

whoa awesome advancements, the terraforming is looking really nice!! keep up the great work, its a big job terraforming 256 squares lol!!
#1240 11/07/2006 02:38 PM

Hey, David!

Nice presentation on the river width part. I enjoyed the pics of the different places, especially the one with the CRAZY intersection right beside the river for which you sarcastically said would be in the next NAM. I could never have the patience to figure out the math to do what you have accomplished here, but I'm glad you're working hard on making the very best stuff that you can, and your terraforming is definitely coming along greatly! I look forward to more!
#1241 11/07/2006 09:33 PM

David that is wow amazing work on the rivers great job and defintly a attention grabber i just love that pix lol looking forward to more - pat
#1242 11/07/2006 09:48 PM

Wow! Great work so far! That region is going to be awesome. I am looking forward to seeing how it develops. Keep up the good work!
#1243 11/07/2006 10:46 PM

Okay, my loss is your gain. I've been watching the (US) election coverage and terraforming like a fiend at the same time.

Six of the 16 rows are complete, the seventh is half done and a few quads are done in the eighth.

Here you go...

Here's the 3,200 by 3,200 pixel version [ linkie ]. It's 727 kb in size, so be prepared to stand by a mo'.

Mind you, I'm getting the mountains, hills, shorelines and river widths basically the way I want them, but there will likely be further significant fine terraforming work on many of the quads, much less superdetailing work on riverbanks, lakeshores and surface water streams.

Then there's trees. I plan to very carefully select the tree types I'm using. I will use seasonal trees wherever possible for deciduous species, pay attention to the significance of elevation (tree line, differentiation and so on) and try to otherwise conform what goes (or, more properly grows) where based on the underlying landform.

I'm placing 3RR in a notional North American location between 45 and 50 degrees north latitude. Hotham Inlet, the large water body in the southeastern corner of the region, is freshwater (as an embayment, perhaps, from a great lake) and I am arbitrarily setting the water surface at 900 feet (about 275 meters) above mean sea level.

I haven't chosen fish species yet

...just kidding... ...the election results and the several stiff drinks needed to allow myself to be reconciled to them are taking their toll here...

Anyway, I will be doing an update where I will ask you to help me select suitable trees for use in 3RR. Along with a rock mod...

...don't get me started on rock mods tonight...

I'll close this update by first thanking you folks who, in the face of my apparent indifference, have been willing to continue commenting. It's been quite a while since I've posted some responses, and I'm just going to take a break to do that. If you are a commenter, and have your own CJ, I have been trying to do more than lurk, but I feel ashamed...

...very ashamed...

...for letting the nice things said here pile up unrequited. You'll just have to believe me for now- each comment is taken straight to heart. You are all my dear, dear friends and lunch is on me if you ever find yourself in Alaska. I'd say I'll do better but I've made that promise before.

What the heck- I'll make it again. I'll do better.

Parting pics- a few close-ups from the Region Census region view above.

The Roaring Fork.


The Taylor Lakes and the western reaches of the Northern Range.


The partially terraformed Wyler Mountains and Perch Lake.


North-central Three Rivers Region.


Later, folks.

n.b.: I'll do anything to call your attention to my previous post on river and stream width- if you haven't seen it yet, please check it out here [ linkie ]. DE
#1244 11/07/2006 11:55 PM

Well that Mona Lisa animation did it for me!
... I read it last night though...

Keep plugin' away David!
#1245 11/08/2006 01:41 AM

Amazing job dedgren.
It baffles my mind how you manage to find time to do all that terraforming and still find time to post here! :)

Its fascinating to see how you are prgressing with the region and getting to see how you have made all the decisions.

Definetly one of the most interesting CJ's here.

#1246 11/08/2006 02:30 AM

hey david my friend thats a great region view the terraforming is excellent
#1247 11/08/2006 04:02 AM

Dear David-the Zealot-,

That roaring fork image is just great. It is exactly how a satalite image is supposed to be. I get a googleearth feeling from looking at this terraformed land. Great work. Realy worth the effort.

So once you finished this map. Any thoughts about the future? Getting marries, having kids
......oh, what'd say, they are still there?
They must realy love you, showing so much patience, on the other hand, it's snow covered Alaska where could they go? (for once a reason why people would want to live there.....
;) ;D

#1248 11/08/2006 04:20 AM

#1249 11/08/2006 04:35 AM

Everything as been said and I agree with most of what I've read.
so I won't bother saying that you're nuts, everybody realized that! I want for example that Mona Lisa pulling her ears! :D
I won't say that that map will be, in fact, already is, "THE MAP" on simtrop, nope I won't.
I also won't say that any sane person would tackle such a task, you can refer to my first point on this one.
I won't bother.... nope I won't $%Grinno$%

As I won't bother saying that I'll be back to see more of it!

But I'll say this,

Take care my friend!
#1250 1/08/2006 11:46 AM


Robert (KingTitan) who is now a 3RR Regular* despite the fact that he continues to lurk on the CJ...

...come out- Robert. come out and have some fun with us...

...wrote a nice PM where, after he was way too kind to 3RR, he asked

Quote....where can I get that specific snow mod. do you have a link to get me there directly so I am not searching all over the place? Right now Im using the cheat code "snow", and it doesnt look right to me.......please help.?

Of course, I PM'd him right back with the linkie...

...Guilt. It's guilt. You're feeling guilty about all those nice folks who've written you and you continue to ignore at your peril...

...'hem!... I PM'd him right back with the linkie, but his post made me think- what's up with that "game" snow anyway?

Well, since I'm at home waiting for the hot water heater folks...

...yeah, wotta day yesterday- the Dems took over congress and my hot water heater cr-pped out...

...I thought I'd take a little time and take a look into the "game" snow cheat that has been brought to light by buggi in his Extra Cheats DLL thread [ linkie ]. Is it as bad as Robert would make it out to be? Let's see- I'll decide.

Here's the 3RR area we'll use as our testbed, up in the heart of the Northern Range in the northeast corner of the region.


We'll be looking at the effects of "game" snow in Quads 31 and 47, as one has by and large much higher elevation than the other.

We'll start by turning on the snow cheat in Quad 31.


I'm using the DLL made available by buggi to list the cheats from a good old standard [ Ctrl ][ X ] cheat box. You can accomplish the same thing if you haven't downloaded and installed the DLL by typing "snow" in the cheat box and pressing [ Enter ].

Now, I'm not going to go through a big, long description here of how I've set this up or what is happening. Suffice it to say that, over about six months of "game" time, the cheat gradually brings the snow line down lower and lower in elevation. It reaches its maximum extent in the dead of "game" winter, then retreats back up the hill and mountainsides. By mid-spring, all the cheat snow is gone. Note that some of the snow, though, will remain as it is permanent snow created as the result of the use of jeronij's Columbus Snowcapped Lower mod, which is discussed on 3RR page 41 here [ linkie ]]. I'll only do fall into winter- you can see winter into spring by scrolling upwards from the last pic...'s just amazing how that worked out...

So here we go.


This is pretty much all snow from jeronij's mod.


First snowfall. Looks pretty good at this point.


Still pretty subtle, but parallel lines (I'll call 'em "jaggies.") are starting to appear at the lowest extent of the snow line.


Definitely November or early December. The jaggies definitely do not look good on open terrain.


Woot! That must have been a dumper! The jaggies are definitely not good.




Now that's snow machine [ linkie ] country...

n.b.: I have never heard anyone who has lived in Alaska more than five minute refer to a snow machine as a "snowmobile."

Let's look at the lowest elevation of the quad down in the southeast corner.


That's as far down as the "game" snow gets.

Moving on to Quad 47, I'll do three shots. The first is "summer" i.e.: no "game" snow.


Here's snow halfway down.


Those jaggies do bug me, Robert.

Mid-winter snow line.


The flatter the lowest snow-covered area, the worse the jaggies get.

So, setting aside the appearance issue, how low in elevation does "game" snow come down to?

Here's our contour lines ([ Ctrl ][Shift ][ C ]) with no "game" snow on the ground.


And here they are with the snow at its lowest extent.


That's right down to almost the first contour line above "game" water level. That level is 250 meters (about 800 feet). The contours are 64 meters (about 200 feet) apart [ linkie ] so use of the snow cheat will bring snow at its maximum point down on everything above that level. Recalling that I have arbitrarily set the game water level in 3RR at 900 feet (275 meters)above mean sea level, that means in the dead of winter I would get snow down to about the1,100 foot (335 meter) elevation level.

I don't know if there would be a way, perhaps in ilive's Reader, to vary this. It may be hard-coded, like tunnels. It would be interesting...

...whoa, like an SC4 science experiment... bring it all the way down to the "game" water level. Would game water then freeze? Someone will figure this out, mark my words.

As for the jaggies- trees- lots of trees- come to mind. I'll leave that today for you to check out if your interested, as...

...I have a date with the hot water heater guy.


* A 3RR Regular is anyone who has ever commented (that's right, even once) on 3RR. Since I've done Robert's commenting for him, in effect, by quoting from his PM, he's now a 3RR Regular...

...hey, I'm the boss here, and I brook no guff! Dems 'da rules!

#1251 11/08/2006 11:59 AM

this was an interesting read thankyou my friend
#1252 11/08/2006 01:06 PM

Damned jaggies! Well, whatever, I don't use snow in my regions anyhow. My regions are a bit closer to home [ linkie ]. Heh heh, sorry, just wanted an excuse to use the "linkie"...

#1253 11/08/2006 02:59 PM

Wow! I never knew about the contour lines!
Thanks for sharing all this with us!text...
#1254 11/08/2006 03:28 PM

This is all great info! and if it weren't for your cj, I would never have found all those cheats!
Great work!
#1255 11/08/2006 07:39 PM

Hello David (I hope I'm not being too personal for my first post),

Just wanted to say that after lurking for a very long time, your CJ has inspired me to get back into the game. Thanks also for pointing me in the direction of AVR which then led me to Paradise Falls. The three of you (dedgren, darmok and jacquilina) have reminded me of the fun that can be had with SC4. As for the latest update (there is no way I could comment on all 42 pages), I love the variety you have in this region. Thanks again, and I hope not to be such a stranger anymore.
#1256 11/08/2006 08:02 PM

Thats quite a bit of snow there!! sooo are we gonna see a water mod?? cuz you know if you have a special request ill be more than happy to mod it for you ;)!! great work and very informative, loving every bit!!
#1257 11/08/2006 08:06 PM

The Northern central & eastern areas of the map look great, especially the rivers (the eastern branch of the roaring fork area in particular). The snow is a very interesting thing (and evidently, one of the cheats not quite finished). As far as someone putting it to sea level, I'll give it about a month to completion (1.5 months at most). Now keep up these ground breaking developments and inquiries into the deeper parts of the game, and get these things terraformed so the contributory development can commence. Incidentally, I'm a bit surprised at the election results. I expected some change but I was expecting it to be on incumbents in general and not so much pure republican replacement, although it is good to see good turnover on both sides. Looking forward to the finished product.
#1258 11/09/2006 01:26 AM

WOW!! I need this, sorry, but now i can't post much, i'm in the school, see you, David.
#1259 11/09/2006 02:59 AM

Fascinating! :D

How can you make something so mundane seem so interesting.
Nice little experimental update.
;D :thumbsup:
D. Edgren

Please call me David...

Three Rivers Region- A collaborative development of the SC4 community
The 3RR Quick Finder [linkie]

I aten't dead.  —  R.I.P. Granny Weatherwax

Skype: davidredgren