RHW (RealHighway) - Development and Support

[allan_kuan1992]

you know... i actually like videosean's texture more than Tarkus' new V21 texture. Just my opinion though. (No offence.)

You mind maintaining the new set for future developments? I'd love to make textures, but Vista likes playing against my wishes by not allowing FSH files to be read properly in SC4Tool and in FiSHMan. >.<

- Allan Kuan

[TEG24601]

I also made a request for that when I was confused about the point of the elevated-RHW.

TEG

[j-dub]

@deathtopumpkins and videosean, thank you for making it. Sure, some curves, the old texture may be on a piece here an there, but its a texture with more realism to it. I think the line markings are better. Despite the black, it reminds me of the old RHW 13 texture some how. It especially looks awesome with Mrtnrln's props on top of it.

[deathtopumpkins]

Thanks guys. Of course I'll maintain it for future developments.

Oh, I hadn't noticed you requested it too, TEG24601. Well, request granted!

j-dub: You're welcome. Eventually (hopefully soon) we won't have to worry about the patch of old texture. I can't comment on the similarity to the v13 textures though, as I never used the RHW until after version 20.

Tarkus and the rest of the team: Sorry if we're hijacking the thread.

[nerdly_dood]

Ya know I could probably make a RHW texture set and base it off the original ones in v.20, considering that I can make textures for automata... It would take a  while, but I could do it... Here's my early thoughts: Shorter, narrower dashed lines, same gray pavement, no reflectors, more subtle rumble strip, and the same length dashed lines on RHW2 as RHW4 and 6. (I'm also thinking about making a few other texture mods for Maxis networks)

Of course, RHW v.21 will be released before I get a chance to release a new gray texture mod, so I may have to do some copy/pasting and more work to do overall than just the RHW v.20 textures.

[deathtopumpkins]

Nerdly_dood, be prepared for a LOT of tedious clicking. It takes a bit of patience to put it all together.
I'll look forward to the retextured maxis networks though. Some of them really need some work.

[nerdly_dood]

I have made all the textures for a new SAM texture set, but I still need to re-do the alpha maps and run then through FiSHMan and the Reader... I should do that before I do anything else.  Also, i have made some police car mods that require that I rearrange the flashing light effect model, and some of them have 30+ cars to choose from, so I think I can handle tedious clicking...

[Tarkus]

Tarkus and the rest of the team: Sorry if we're hijacking the thread.

No worries, DTP.   It's quite on-topic. 

It's been awhile since I've had anything to show here, and probably will be for a little while.  However, I would like to report that I am going to be "re-configuring" things a little with how the Wider RHWs work.  Beware, there's definitely going to be some technical talk here, but hopefully it will make sense--I think you'll like the end result of it.

You may remember awhile ago, for the RHW-6 and RHW-8, I had proposed both "S" (separable) and "C" (compact) versions.  (For reference, the RHW-6 in RHW Version 20 is an "S" network--the two sides of the network can be separated from one another).

As I had mentioned awhile ago, the RHW-6, due to how it was configured, would technically have the same capacity as an RHW-4, since the extra tiles did not contain paths.  This covered both the RHW-6S you currently have as well as the prototype 3-tile RHW-6C, which had the inner shoulders rather than the outer on a separate tile, and as a result, I had more or less described both networks as being "functional eyecandy", since SC4's Traffic Simulation counts traffic on a "per-tile" basis rather than a "per-lane" or "per-path" basis.  (I'm sure EA/Maxis never envisioned that we'd come along and create all these "new" override networks.)

However, I had a bright idea a couple of weeks ago after having a conversation with jplumbley--since the network configuration over 3 tiles for the RHW-6C had the necessary space, I could simply shift over the extra lane, which would put the leftmost (or for you LHD folk, rightmost) lane on the center tile, as shown in the prototype texture below (well, I guess I did actually have something to show then . . . ):



What does this mean?  In effect, because this center tile is now pathed, traffic can utilize all three tiles of roadway, meaning that the RHW-6C will have a capacity increase over the RHW-4.  An increase of 1.5 times, to be precise.  Which, under the new "A" and "B" NAM Traffic Plugins, (which, by the way, are heavily recommended for the RHW and required for the NWM upon its release--the "C" and "D" Plugins weren't designed for this sort of thing) would mean that the RHW-6C would also have more capacity than a Maxis Highway.  So a user of the A or B "Hard" Plugin would find that the RHW-4 has a full-width capacity of 9600, the RHW-6C would have a capacity of 14400. 

Due to how things have to be configured, the reverse will be true of the RHW-8 "C" and "S" versions--the RHW-8C version, also taking up 3 tiles, will have the same capacity of the RHW-6C, whereas the RHW-8S will be a "true" 4-tile network, with a 2x increase over the RHW-4 and RHW-6S, and a 1.33x increase over the RHW-6C--assuming "A/B Hard" again, the capacity will be 19200.  The RHW-10 will effectively function for the RHW-8S much as the RHW-6S functions for the RHW-4--it will not add any capacity--the extra lane just serves "auxiliary" purposes.  (Though it will also not take up any extra space, both being 4-tile networks).

So, in effect, the RHW-6 is actually a "useful" network with a capacity increase directly proportional to the increase in the number of travel lanes, in its "C" form.  Therefore, my earlier statement that the RHW-6 in either form was merely a "transition" network is no longer applicable.  From this, it is possible to define "full" and "auxiliary" RHW networks. 

These are the "full" networks, which contain a functional capacity increase coordinated with an increase in the number of travel lanes.  (I've also listed capacities for all these networks, based on the A/B Hard values)

RHW-2 (1-tile): 4800
RHW-4 (2-tile): 9600
RHW-6C (3-tile): 14400
RHW-8S (4-tile): 19200

These are the "auxiliary" networks, on which the extra lanes, while pathed to allow automata travel along them, technically do not increase the functional capacity.  (The automata, however, from my observations, does "spread out", making the network at least visually appear less congested.)  Really, they're mainly designed to create an "auxiliary lane" effect, like in RL.

RHW-3 (2-tile): 4800, auxiliary of RHW-2
RHW-6S (4-tile): 9600, auxiliary of RHW-4
RHW-8C (3-tile): 14400, auxiliary of RHW-6C
RHW-10 (4-tile): 19200, auxiliary of RHW-8S

Hope that made sense.

-Alex

[nerdly_dood]

It does to me, and it also seems that you just re-thought what exactly the various capacities were based on what the RHW-2 capacity already was, which means, you don't have to re-configure any part of the mod, which would cause its release date to be pushed back, right?

[deathtopumpkins]

OK, REALLY confused now.  ()what()Most of that made sense, until the bottom where you listed the networks. Are they only included in v21, or am I missing some stuff in v20?
1. Is there an RHW8 with 4 lanes each direction with no median? Same with RHW10?
2. Can you explain how one would transition between RHW4 and 6C? I just can't picture it in my head. Same with 8C?
3. What is the RHW3?
4. Can you explain how the traffic plugins work? I had no idea when I installed NAM, so I chose none.
If you want you can PM me the last one, or refer me to some pre-existing thread that explains them.

The top part makes sense though. 

[Tarkus]

Sorry for the confusion--those new networks are slated for future versions of the RHW.  (Version 21 . . . we'll see . . . )

1) There will be eventually.  Here's some old prototype pics I had laying around from a month ago:

RHW-8S


Multi RHW-10 (a 20-lane segment of RHW . . . )


2) Basically, it'll widen out from 2 to 3 tiles.  The original design (before I moved the left lanes inward) more or less had the left lane ending and two RHW-4s separated by one tile, but it'll need to be redesigned now, and I don't have a prototype yet.  The RHW-6C-to-8C transition will basically just have the new lane for the 8C going on the right.

3) The RHW-3 is basically an RHW-2 with an additional lane on one side--kind of the RHW equivalent of the ARD-3 network from the NWM project, and it's mainly designed for climbing/passing lanes in hilly/mountainous areas.  Here is a prototype orthogonal texture (which I showed here awhile ago):



4) There is a thread explaining the details of the Traffic Simulator, and the development of the "A" and "B" NAM Traffic Plugins in the NAM How-To And Tutorials board.  Here is a direct link to that specific thread.

Hope that answers your questions!

-Alex (Tarkus)

[allan_kuan1992]

oh dear... US mass suburbia coming into town... =P

That is a very VERY wide freeway. I know Highway 401 in Toronto can be this wide... but the magnitude and the width still astonishes me.

- Allan Kuan

[jplumbley]

OK, REALLY confused now.  ()what()Most of that made sense, until the bottom where you listed the networks. Are they only included in v21, or am I missing some stuff in v20?
1. Is there an RHW8 with 4 lanes each direction with no median? Same with RHW10?
2. Can you explain how one would transition between RHW4 and 6C? I just can't picture it in my head. Same with 8C?
3. What is the RHW3?
4. Can you explain how the traffic plugins work? I had no idea when I installed NAM, so I chose none.
If you want you can PM me the last one, or refer me to some pre-existing thread that explains them.

The top part makes sense though. 

@Deathtopumpkins  Please read the following thread aswell Traffic Simulator

That is a very VERY wide freeway. I know Highway 401 in Toronto can be this wide... but the magnitude and the width still astonishes me.

It may seem wide, but it is to scale.  Highway 401 in Toronto with in some places upto 18 lanes of traffic is very wide.  Each lane is roughly 4m wide (off hand not referenced for those who wish to correct me) trasnlated to the average 16 lane width of the 401 = 4 tiles in width plus the separatations between the left and right sides of highway, emergency lanes and separation between express and collectors.  This would probably put the scale of a realistic 16 lane highway in the range of 7 or 8 tiles in width, which is what Alex has shown.  So, in reality you are getting a sense of the scale of reality.

[allan_kuan1992]

It may seem wide, but it is to scale.  Highway 401 in Toronto with in some places upto 18 lanes of traffic is very wide.  Each lane is roughly 4m wide (off hand not referenced for those who wish to correct me) trasnlated to the average 16 lane width of the 401 = 4 tiles in width plus the separatations between the left and right sides of highway, emergency lanes and separation between express and collectors.  This would probably put the scale of a realistic 16 lane highway in the range of 7 or 8 tiles in width, which is what Alex has shown.  So, in reality you are getting a sense of the scale of reality.

Well... I don't live in Toronto, but in Vancouver, and here 6-laned and 4-laned freeways (three on each side) are more commonplace. =P

Anyway... nice work so far, and videosean, your textures look great! =)

- Allan Kuan

[deathtopumpkins]

Thanks for the explanation and links guys.

I had typed out a longer and more detailed reply, but IE7 decided to give me the "Unable to load page. Operation Aborted." message when I hit reply and so I lost it, and I don't feel like typing it again, much less remember it all.

[wes.janson]

Well... I don't live in Toronto, but in Vancouver, and here 6-laned and 4-laned freeways (three on each side) are more commonplace. =P

Anyway... nice work so far, and videosean, your textures look great! =)

- Allan Kuan

Heh... teh thought of the parking lot known as the #1 being called a 'freeway' gave me a bit of a chuckle. I go out of my way to not drive on that thing.

[deathtopumpkins]

Oh, so you guys have parking lots known as 'freeways' in Canada too!

[Haljackey]

Wow, Tarkus!  I see how both the RHW-6C and RHW-8S work to increase overall highway capacity.  That's great news! 
-But still, the more lanes, the more realistic it looks.  I honestly don't care what the highway's actual capacity is in-game is as long as it "looks" like it can handle a lot of traffic.

Oh, and that 20 lane superhighway looks fantastic!    I can't wait to make that myself!  That + MIS = a huge, amazing highway!

One request.  I know this may not directly apply to you right now (functionality first, looks second), but most highways over 3 lanes per direction have some sort of median to separate traffic.  Any chance of including a concrete wall or something similar in the unused space beside the yellow line?  This would make it much more realistic!

P.S:  Congrats on becoming a SC4D administrator!   

Oh, so you guys have parking lots known as 'freeways' in Canada too!

Yes we do.  In fact, Canada is home to the world's busiest highway (what allan_kuan1992 and jplumbley were talking about.)

I've always wanted to replicate this in SC4:


The closest I have gotten so far is a Multi RHW-10 (RHW-4 as express lanes, RHW-6S as collectors), but I haven't been able to swell it into a 20+ lane monster.  This is something I've always wanted to do in Sim City, ever since the first game.
(Click me for full resolution, 1920x1200.)


-Its getting close now.  The RHW has changed the way SC4 works for me ever since the first release.

Best,
-Haljackey

[Alfred.Jones]

That is an intense highway!!

I really like the new textures as well Tarkus

Cannot wait till release

[deathtopumpkins]

*We really need a wistling smiley*

And I thought the turnpike was big. That thing's humongous! That would be cool in SC4, my biggest so far is the same as yours, a multi RHW10.

Alex, texture-related PM coming your way.