RHW (RealHighway) - Development and Support

[ivo_su]

The coding for the L1 EMIS (and the L3 and L4 EMISes, for that matter) are all being compiled as part of Project 0E.  Project 0E is essentially the "next RHW"--we're calling it by that codename instead of "RHW 6.0" because of the massive changes involved and the fact that the RHW will be fully merged into the NAM. 

Beyond that, it's a matter of compiling the paths, models and exemplars.

-Alex

In this case  0E project will affect you also NWM  through the restructuring of  other codes, paths and examples? Because as far as I know from now on NAM will unite in one common core NWM and RHW

[GDO29Anagram]

In this case  0E project will affect you also NWM  through the restructuring of  other codes, paths and examples? Because as far as I know from now on NAM will unite in one common core NWM and RHW

Project 0E is mainly reorganizing the RHW RUL and IID structure so that it's more organized and stable. The NWM doesn't need such treatment since it's already well-organized and (more or less) stable.

There's no "resurrection" of anything; It's just moving one thing to a new IID range, and a lot of cut-and-paste and code re-writing.

[jdenm8]

Actually, the NWM code is the model for the Project 0E code, making a revision of the NWM pointless as it won't change.

As for L1EMIS, how about when it's ready.

It wasn't in any of the RHW 5.0 Pre-Alphas or Alphas except for at the RUL level and every asset created for it will need moving into the new IID range.

The same goes for L4EMIS, except it wasn't even implemented in any 'r' Controller Builds and was actually broken in RHW 4.1 (Puzzle Pieces have IID overlap)

Edit for Jondor: Ack, knew it was something along those lines.

[jondor]

Actually, it's more a combination of the NWM IID scheme and the job I did on the SAM code.  The NWM is certainly more stable than the RHW in many situations, but not yet up to the level I pulled off with the SAM.

For everyone who's being not so patient, please remember that we are only human, we can only do so much at a time, our real lives do have to come first, and finally also consider that the RHW is a pretty long-lived mod which has acquired a lot of baggage along the way, all in the name of backwards compatibility.

As it stands, it's a mishmash of old and new ideas, good and bad ways of doing things, and is steadily becoming more and more burdensome to develop.  Project 0E is a way out of that murk and while it may not be an absolute necessity, it's becoming one.  So it's much better to get it out of the way now.  This also means that until it gets done to the point that we can reliably use it behind the scenes, developing additional content is somewhat pointless, because at least parts of it will just have to be redone to conform to the new specs, and releasing any new content is even more troublesome and unlikely because that just makes the legacy files even bigger.

Now, the good news is that most everything that exists at the L2 level can be easily be ported to the other levels by simply changing the heights of a bunch of vertices and paths and a few IIDs.  The bad news is that this still takes time to do that since we don't have any automated way to do it, and it's not going to happen until sometime after project 0E is in a workable state.  Whether the next release occurs before or after L1 content (or L3 or 4 for that matter) is included is a decision for a later date.

The best thing you can do for now is enjoy the new 5.0 content until we've gotten things squared away for easier future additions.    Badgering us only means we have to spend our time in here writing long, boring responses instead of spending time developing content.  Boring for you, boring for us. 

[Ryan B.]

Actually, it's more a combination of the NWM IID scheme and the job I did on the SAM code.  The NWM is certainly more stable than the RHW in many situations, but not yet up to the level I pulled off with the SAM.

For everyone who's being not so patient, please remember that we are only human, we can only do so much at a time, our real lives do have to come first, and finally also consider that the RHW is a pretty long-lived mod which has acquired a lot of baggage along the way, all in the name of backwards compatibility.

As it stands, it's a mishmash of old and new ideas, good and bad ways of doing things, and is steadily becoming more and more burdensome to develop.  Project 0E is a way out of that murk and while it may not be an absolute necessity, it's becoming one.  So it's much better to get it out of the way now.  This also means that until it gets done to the point that we can reliably use it behind the scenes, developing additional content is somewhat pointless, because at least parts of it will just have to be redone to conform to the new specs, and releasing any new content is even more troublesome and unlikely because that just makes the legacy files even bigger.

Now, the good news is that most everything that exists at the L2 level can be easily be ported to the other levels by simply changing the heights of a bunch of vertices and paths and a few IIDs.  The bad news is that this still takes time to do that since we don't have any automated way to do it, and it's not going to happen until sometime after project 0E is in a workable state.  Whether the next release occurs before or after L1 content (or L3 or 4 for that matter) is included is a decision for a later date.

The best thing you can do for now is enjoy the new 5.0 content until we've gotten things squared away for easier future additions.    Badgering us only means we have to spend our time in here writing long, boring responses instead of spending time developing content.  Boring for you, boring for us. 

Jondor, I don't think you could have said it any better.  RL hits everyone, and we're not all dedicated to SC4 (as much as we'd like to be - believe me, I'd love to have a couple of days just for SC4) . . . in short, I just want to say this to everyone:

Let the guys (and gals) work at their own pace.  They have a track record of great work that we all see in our cities and regions every time we play.  Let 'em do their work - it'll make it easier and more stable for us to use when it's all said and done.

It'll be done when it's done.  In the meantime, RHW v5 just came out - why not visit Haljackey's brand new Interchange Tutorial child board and learn how to do some really, really cool stuff?

Are you not entertained?

[bthersh]

And if you are already bored with RHW 5.0, maybe take some time to find out how you might be able to contribute to the project   Though I don't know how technical Project 0E is, and if it might be beyond the help of those of us inexperienced in modding.  In any case, I know a project as enjoyable as this makes us all want more, but remember to be thankful for what we have - and how much the game has changed - because of the hard work of a few people willing, able, and motivated enough to figure this stuff out.  So thanks!

[Tarkus]

Ganaram, JD, jondor, Ryan, bthersh--thanks for the great posts.

I'll give you a little more specifics about what is being done with Project 0E.

The entire IID range is being migrated from the 0x5E range to the 0x0E range (hence the name).  Also as part of the process, some items are being rotated from their current position.  The reason for the rotation is simple--consistency and ease of overriding.  The ultra-stabilization you've seen in the initial Project 0E pics I've shown are the result of the rotation of items.

As far as the IID scheme change, it's a longer story.  The whole 0x5E range is a colossal mess and has been for a long time.  If you've ever tried to produce a third-party texture or T21 mod for the RHW, you've probably come to the same conclusion quite quickly.

0x5E was initially used by the old "ANT Plugin" (predecessor of the modern-day RHW-2) by the original batch of modders involved with the NAM, albeit it was with scheme based on the One-Way Road IID scheme and actually violated the NAM IID conventions of that time period (conventions that simply wouldn't work nowadays as they don't take into consideration the "draggable revolution").  After the RHW continued the violation with Version 1.2, several other IID schemes popped up between 1.3 and 2.0--some of which already had content produced using them--and there wasn't a clear consensus.  So RHW Version 2.0 from 2008, which some consider the first "modern" RHW release, actually used a haphazard mishmash of about 4 different schemes.  And we're still using the RHW 2.0 IID system today. 

When superhands and I rebooted the NWM in 2009, basically from scratch, we had a clearer idea of what things needed to look like to properly and logically support a complex system of override networks.  The NWM IID scheme has been a massive success for the most part, and the Project 0E-era RHW IID scheme is derived from it.

The only real NWM-related project that will tie into Project 0E, however, is the ultra-stabilization of RHW/NWM crosslinks.

-Alex

Edit: Minor grammatical fix.

[Swordmaster]

Some day you'll even have NAM-illiterates like me understand the whole thing, Alex. Great clarifying post!

Cheers,
Willy

[TEG24601]

I have a dumb question/issue.  I'm working on an interchange, and am getting a weird texture under my EMIS when crossing a RHW-6S.  Is there something I'm missing, or is this a known issue I can solve with either OWR or dropping down to RHW-4?



Also, as part of the 0E (14) project, is there any possibility of new Left side exits on the RHW?  Perhaps at the very least on the RHW-6S?

TEG

[GDO29Anagram]

I have a dumb question/issue.  I'm working on an interchange, and am getting a weird texture under my EMIS when crossing a RHW-6S.  Is there something I'm missing, or is this a known issue I can solve with either OWR or dropping down to RHW-4?

That's just something that hasn't been enabled with all the RHW diagonals, except with RHW-2, 4, MIS, and the base networks.

[Shadow Assassin]

Also, as part of the 0E (14) project, is there any possibility of new Left side exits on the RHW?  Perhaps at the very least on the RHW-6S?

Yes. Maybe even for 8 (and by extension, 10 since they use the same interior footprint)... We're putting priority on porting current RHW stuff to Project 0E specs at the moment though.

[TEG24601]

Also, as part of the 0E (14) project, is there any possibility of new Left side exits on the RHW?  Perhaps at the very least on the RHW-6S?

Yes. Maybe even for 8 (and by extension, 10 since they use the same interior footprint)... We're putting priority on porting current RHW stuff to Project 0E specs at the moment though.

Thanks.  I look forward to the results.  Now if only I could find a slope mod that didn't make me want to scream.

TEG

[noahclem]

@ TEG24601 - If your slope mod makes you want to scream I recommend temporarily removing it from your plugins and temporarily installing one with less strict slopes. Alternately, you could install a slope mod that still allows relatively steep slopes and prepare the area for your highways with a very low-slope network like rail.

More inside exits sound great for me, though what I'd really love to see is such exits including merging lanes    Tricky geometry I know, but it'd still be nice to see 

[Rionescu]

More inside exits sound great for me, though what I'd really love to see is such exits including merging lanes    Tricky geometry I know, but it'd still be nice to see 

I created textures and paths for that sort of thing a while ago, but I don't have the know-how to turn it into a puzzle piece.

[noahclem]

Rionescu, that is truly something beautiful! Amazing work 

With textures and paths out of the way it's not a terribly long shot that someone would be willing to take care of the RUL/puzzle piece work for you 

[Swordmaster]

Yes, absolutely lovely exit!

Willy

[mike3775]

Nice Exit.  I can see uses for it in the game already

[jdenm8]

I actually did have a go at that one a while ago... I've probably still got the files lying around on my laptop, though I'd need to rebuild the RULs.

[TEG24601]

@ TEG24601 - If your slope mod makes you want to scream I recommend temporarily removing it from your plugins and temporarily installing one with less strict slopes. Alternately, you could install a slope mod that still allows relatively steep slopes and prepare the area for your highways with a very low-slope network like rail.

More inside exits sound great for me, though what I'd really love to see is such exits including merging lanes    Tricky geometry I know, but it'd still be nice to see 

I actually have to pull it out from time to time, mainly because it always wants to over correct, so I have strange dips and odd humps in the middle of a road, so I have to go back to fix it.  The big issue comes up when building interchanges, where I need very flat land, and RTMT, which often kills a road until I quit pull out the slope mod, and go back and fix it.

TEG

[KoV Liberty]

Have you guys ever thought of doing something like this?

How about a piece that makes it seem like the RHW is going underground, but you can drag out an invisible pieces of highway from that point until you reach another above ground emergence piece. In essence, the RHW pieces would be completely invisible instead of using FLUPs. The FLUPs, I think are useless because they cannot go through developments. These cannot either, but at least they could form "functional" tunnels.