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Three Rivers Region

Started by dedgren, December 20, 2006, 07:57:49 PM

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Well, it's that time of the year.

...and a Pionus in a fir tree!

We started putting the tree up earlier in the week and Heather's parrot Ness decided to come check it out.  We thought it was a hoot until the bird began chowing down on the needles.

* * *

More RealRoads eye candy- this time a pic to show how double centerlines are extended from the ends of curves as the roads are dragged.

I will be looking for some beta testers who are willing to use a custom NAM/SAM setup I would provide as, for now, the current NAM release is not compatible.  If you'd consider doing this, drop me a post here in 3RR.  I should have a beta out before the end of the month.

Oh, and I'm going back over the next day or so and responding to things noted in some of the last page or so of posts, so you might want to scroll back a bit in case you've left a comment in recent weeks.



D. Edgren

Please call me David...

Three Rivers Region- A collaborative development of the SC4 community
The 3RR Quick Finder [linkie]

I aten't dead.  —  R.I.P. Granny Weatherwax

Skype: davidredgren


Hi David ,

Nothing useful to add , just wanna say how I'm pleased to hear 3RR symphony orchestra playing again ...  :sunny:


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Wonderful looking progress David. The double lines around the curves and intersections seem to be integrating well. I was looking at the road/gravel transition though and, although it looks like you're still working with it, I thought I'd mention something that caught my eye. The asphalt transition seems to end a bit abruptly. In my experience, a bit of the tar and aggregate tends to trail off into the gravel, leaving slight trails behind it where the tires were. It seemed like you were hinting at that addition in a previous post, but with the way things happen around here, I figured I'd mention it just in case.

Love the pic of Ness there too. The lighting really brings out the coloring. Gorgeous bird.


hehe I heard Fir tree   &blush

The eye candy roads are absolutely well though, at first glance I didn't notice the 2 lines in the curves but it was with more insistence I understood all the work about textures and I have to admit it's a really good job  &apls &apls &apls

If you need a Beta tester, always here to help  :thumbsup:

It's a good news to see you back and sharing your work with the community, always appreciated for the developped explanations and illustrations  :thumbsup: 
The Floraler

This is the end, hold your breath and count to ten, feel the earth move, and then...

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Those roads look amazing!  I might be able to help beta test, I know I'd certainly like to, but I'm not certain I'll have the time to be much help.  Looking forward to getting my hands on these though!


Quote from: Haljackey on December 14, 2010, 01:50:56 PM

The RealRoads and the maps look excellent!

I didn't think about the RHW being "Real Highways" when I first posted the name after about 15 seconds consideration over a year and a half ago.  As it is a complete set of retextures for the game roads along with a substantial revision of several SAM sets and its compatibility with the entirety of the NAM in the long term is still yet to be thought through, perhaps I ought to come up with another name.  Any suggestions?. -de

Hmm... well I don't think RealRoads sounds confusing, but for people who are new I could see a small issue between distinguishing Real-Roads (RR) and Real-HighWay (RHW) apart.

First thing that comes to my mind is RTM, which stands for Road-reTexturing-Mod.
-Next thing that comes is RFLM: Road-FaceLift-Mod
-Or how about simply RRM-Real-Road-Mod. The name and abbreviation has little relation to the RHW, except for the "Real". :P

Any of these help? Great work by the way.

-Ryan (Haljackey) from snowed-in London, Ontario


The whole "RealHighway" bit actually came from a suggestion by Taylor (qurlix) a few years back, and the "camel-case" treatment it got was largely inspired by RealRoads.  It's using a different network, and the "RHW" acronym actually gets used far more often than the full name, so I think the confusion can easily be mitigated.  An acronym on the RealRoads might help as well--perhaps RRM as Ryan (Hal) suggested or RRd . . . or if you're into portmanteau-acronyms, 3RRd--heh!

Speaking of the RealRoads, like all the projects that have come out of 3RR, they're looking especially nice.  I'd be happy to assist with testing and figuring out the whole NAM compatibility/RUL-backend/software design side as well.  :)  And seeing Antoine's and Ryan B's signs makes me want to finally get the ol' Signage Piece Mod into the whole mix as well.

Hope the holiday season has been good to you so far up in Alaska! :thumbsup:



well isn't this just becoming the cinderella project thread XD

i would love to contribute to beta testing these for you but i also would worry about time commitments so close to xmas.
NAM + CAM + RAM + SAM, that's how I roll....


threestooges said:

QuoteThe asphalt transition seems to end a bit abruptly. In my experience, a bit of the tar and aggregate tends to trail off into the gravel, leaving slight trails behind it where the tires were.

Not trying to be contentious, but I have to disagree.  Gravel roads are always secondary to asphalt roads, so the vehicle traveling on the gravel must always stop before entering the asphalt, which is not true vice-versa.  Because of this need to stop and wait for asphalt traffic to clear, combined with the grade difference between gravel/asphalt, the transition area between gravel/asphalt gets heavily worn, resulting in little or no gravel for a short distance between the end of the asphalt and the beginning of the gravel.  What little gravel is present is embedded in the soil, due to having vehicles either having to a) stop and wait for traffic to clear or b) push/pull the car over the asphalt/gravel transition area.  Like I said in my previous post on this subject, this usually results in gravel and gravel dust and soil being brought onto the asphalt surface via the tires of vehicles entering from the gravel road rather than tar/asphalt being carried to the gravel in the opposite direction.  Also, asphalt is a much more solid surface than gravel, which is particulate.  Tires with gravel dust and gravel in the treads are much more likely to leave gravel evidence on the asphalt than tires leaving asphalt are likely to leave tar on the gravel for the simple reason that gravel, being particulate, is going to move every time any force (like a vehicle moving over it) is exerted upon it.  So, whatever small amount of tar IS carried from asphalt to gravel and stains the gravel, the next vehicle to come along turns the bizillions of little stained pieces of gravel to a new orientation. 

IF the individual gravel pieces stayed in the same orientation regardless of how many vehicles drove over it, then yes, I would agree that the gravel would indeed take on a darker tone along the transition area.  I have a paying project I am under deadline with right now, but if I find some time, I'll try to sketch up some drawings of what I am talking about.  Again, not trying to pick a fight, just running on my own experience of road building and driving.


(ps. is anyone else having trouble with the Reply window?  I get to about 200 words and then I am no longer able to see what I am typing.  I can still type, it's just under the lower edge of the reply window.)


Looking real good, David!  :D  I'd be happy to beta test over the holidays - I've got two weeks off work starting next Friday.

P.S. That is a beautiful bird!
P.P.S. Lora, have you ever considered a career in Forensics? You have a wonderful eye for detail.  :)


No fight at all intended, nor seen Lora. You make several excellent points, particularly with the gravel/dust being tracked back onto the asphalt. I suppose it's the lack of gravel around here (or the rocks in my head) but indeed, unless the gravel were well-packed it would make sense not to see any tar or asphalt tracked over. I'm so used to seeing it tracked over from newly paved roads onto the side streets (with a much greyer color than the main roads from wear and time) that I pretty much applied the same to the streets in the previous pictures without giving thought to their being gravel. Plus, with the pavement style that seems to be used around here, there is a far bit of tar that works its way out, at least in the short term, to the point where you can tell just how busy a side street is by looking at the transition. However, that does wear off too after a while.

That being said, it does seem like the asphalt for the texture fades out into the gravel in a relatively uniform/linear pattern, which is what I wanted to highlight. Even being spread through the force of vehicles passing over it, it would still seem to result in the stained bits being feathered out down the gravel path a bit more in the center of each lane, and less to the sides and, as far as I can recall from what I've seen, result in a slightly more cone-shaped mark on the entrance side, and perhaps a more barren patch on the exit side (where wheels would occasionally skid, flinging loose gravel until they struck dirt). Loosely drawn, perhaps something like this:

The transitions as they are now look pretty good, but they just look a bit rectangular or manufactured (though I'd be hard pressed to draw up something else; see above drawing) to my eye. It may be the intersection itself that's throwing me off. The darkness of the turn marks suggests heavier use to me, almost as much as what the main road itself sees. Covering the T tile up, the transition looks fine, but seeing the darkness of the tracks leading to it may be what's causing me to expect to see greater impact on the gravel.


I'm going to dodge the ongoing asphalt to gravel discussion for tonight, except to note that I'll weigh in tomorrow evening or more likely Friday.  I have a packed day of appointments starting at 9:00 a.m., and I want to do Matt and Lora both justice.  Actually, I'll do Lora justice- my great friend Matt, a newly minted member of the California Bar and thus now a colleague, will get professional courtesy (he will soon enough realize that justice is a commodity in very, very short supply).

So here's the latest RealRoad (I'm hanging on to that monicker for now) texture- the tight 90 degree curve.

You know, folks, I'll tell you- even though I'm doing all these game curve retextures for RealRoads

I don't know why anyone would ever use them.

I think though, all in all, our old game is looking pretty good, whatever you use.




D. Edgren

Please call me David...

Three Rivers Region- A collaborative development of the SC4 community
The 3RR Quick Finder [linkie]

I aten't dead.  —  R.I.P. Granny Weatherwax

Skype: davidredgren


Quote from: dedgren on December 16, 2010, 12:38:06 AM(he will soon enough realize that justice is a commodity in very, very short supply)
As long as there are people willing to work for it, it will be done. Unless of course you were referring to your input on the discussion, in which case, either way, I'm certainly willing to learn a new thing or two.


Stuff like this was one of the reasons I got into 3RR in the first place.  At the time, it seemed like there was always so much going on.  Now, it looks like it's happening again.  To me, the difference between the RHW-2 and the RealRoad is much like the difference between a U.S. highway and a state highway.  It's safe to say that the RealRoad looks more like, well, a real road ( ()stsfd() ) to me than the Maxis Road.

It's interesting that the RealRoads (both the passing and no-passing zones) are entirely draggable.  Does this mean that no cosmetic pieces are needed at all?  If so, it could prove to be a time-saver.  Of course, the addition of wide curves is always nice.  I've tried my hand at overlaying grids over satellite maps, just to see what the area would look like in SC4.  Very rarely did I ever see curves as sharp as the in-game ones.  Still, I'm glad to see that they've been included, because they can save space at times.

Keep up the good work, David!  It's good to see justice done to this good game.
Find my power line BAT thread here.
Check out the Noro Cooperative.  What are you waiting for?  It even has electricity.
Want more? Try here.  For even more electrical goodies, look here.
Here are some rural power lines.


It's Old Time Great Work, David!  &apls

Its getting better all the time. Why should I spend money on new computer games?
I spend my computer game time with mostly SC4 and sometimes Quake (one!). So much developments in both games. Not a second of boredom.


Have to agree with your sentiment there Dave, although there are a couple places where those really tight corners will look very good!  Such as tight mountain roads where there isn't room for the smaller wide radius curves.  Looking forward to seeing more!


Matt, your little sketch illustrates very well the transition I am talking about.  All you need is a little asphalt apron with small radius curves extending into the gravel from the asphalt...and of course dust/gravel going from gravel to asphalt.  Oh, and grats on your entrance into the ABA!  I sometimes think *I* should have been a lawyer...

girlfromverona, I'm an architect/designer in real life and the profession's mantra is "God is in the details".  Architecture is forensics of a different nature, I think, in that both require high levels of attention to detail in a creative problem solving process.  I've been a huge fan of puzzles of all kinds from my earliest exposure to them, and my OCD/Taurus brain compels me to obsess over details.  Drives a lot of folks who know me batty, but is a huge advantage in my career!  And of course, being OCD means it carries over into my play, as well...



Today's first victim RealRoad retexture...

UPDATE:  It took about 20 minutes to create the retexture and alpha PNGs, run them through SC4Tool to insert it into the RealRoads DAT, and fire up the game to take a look.

UPDATE 2:  OH, YEAH!  For some reason it was like I finally fully understood writing RUL override code (the NAM Controller 10000002 file) today.

I was able to look at this retexture and write the 16 code lines needed without trial and error.  That's the first time ever- I just never really got it before.

Later.  I'm hoping planning to have four or five more done by bedtime.


D. Edgren

Please call me David...

Three Rivers Region- A collaborative development of the SC4 community
The 3RR Quick Finder [linkie]

I aten't dead.  —  R.I.P. Granny Weatherwax

Skype: davidredgren


Hi, David!

Let me say that it is so wonderful to see 3RR back and firing on all cylinders, my friend--it's like coming back home after a long trip! As always, you've got some fantastic stuff going on here, so I'll just sit back and follow along!

Take care, my friend!


Ryan B.

Uh-oh . . . . I think David's feelin' it!  We've unleashed a monster!   :D

When this is all done, it'll definitely be the best-looking network re-texture out there.   :thumbsup: