Zach's BATs

[Zacharuno]

I've been a member for of SC4 for years, but I don't really post that much. Recently I've been playing around with Bating, and I'm coming to you guys for help.

Here's what I'm working on right now. It's a townhouse project for a university.



I have some questions that I'm hoping you guys can answer. First, underground stuff. Why does it show up in game? I want it to for the parking ramp and the window bays. But the floor I don't want to show up but it does. Can someone explain how the game does underground stuff, or Gmax.

Second. What are your thoughts on the roofs. I have two widths present, they're both parallel to the front of the TH.

One final question. How do you do HD? I haven't searched for the answer, but I figured you're already reading this, can't hurt to ask.

[joelyboy911]

Hmm, well underground stuff won't really work because of the GMAX rendering process. To make a 'foundation', that sinks into the ground depending on the slope, you have to render a seperate piece and its a process that I'm not fully clued-up on.

I like the narrower of the two rooves myself.

To render in HD is quite easy: Go to this thread: http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=7430.msg238749#msg238749

and that link should take you to a post where scripts that replace ones in your C:/Gmax/Gamepacks/BAT/scripts directory are attached. Put these into the folder, and you have the option (found on the preview panel) to export or preview in HD or SD. More detailed instructions are in the thread.

You've made a good start. I'd recommend some detailing on the roof, such as gutters and whatever the name for the row of tiles/metal across the apex of the roof is.

Good luck!

[thingfishs]

it looks nice Zach
Yeah, as Joel was saying, some extra detailing on the roof would help. But the area for me that needs the most work is your textures. The roof, walls and brick area are all tiling pretty badly. To make BATs look their best you need to learn to do whole textures in PS (or gimp). Take this simple formula: if a wall is 10m x 20m, make an image that's 100 x 200 pixels. That's your wall. Then hunt the net (google search, cgtextures.com etc), for as appropriate, and hopefully large textures as you can find. Then you just need to "play around with it" in PS and voila!

(not knowing your proficiency in PS, I';ll leave it at that for now. Plus there are tutorials around). Good luck

[cogeo]

Really a good start! And I would say quite ambitious, for a "first" BAT (or it isn't?).

About the underground stuff, it shows up ingame because your BAT does have parts underground! That simple! Otherwise how could one make (partly) underground models? What you could do to avoid this is:
- FIrst of all, LODs do not need to extend below ground, even if your BAT does have underground objects. Open your BAT and move your LODs so that they start from ground level, using the type-in tool (press F12). Of course, you will need to modify them too, ie make them lower so that they encompass everything (above ground) but be not taller than your BAT. To do so change the height of the "Box" (if they are simple boxes) or move the vertices lower (if they are meshes or polys).
- However, this may not be enough either, as some underground objects may still be projected on the LODs' faces, because of the viewing angle. So make your LODs as close to your model as possible.

To see an example of such a model, take a look at my Spirulina Farms pack. The large tub model (check the "emptied" one), looks well underground (and it really is), however the LODshell is all above ground. View it in wireframe mode in the reader to see this, and also check the vertex values to verify it (there are no vertices with the Y coordinate negative).

As for the rest, your BAT could greatly be improved with some better texturing:
- Almost all textures are badly applied and are tiled (or it's just me?). Looks like you are not using UVW mappings at all. It may even be the U and V parameters in the materials. These should preferably be set 1.0 initially; later on you may modify them carefully, if you want to tile them (in such a case you should use a "seamless" or "tile" one), or instead use only a part of them. Sometimes it may not be very easy to determine how a texture is applied, so better dl the textures attached at the end of this post. These can help you determine how your materials and mappings work. All you have to do is (temporarily) change the texture (in your material) to this one and see how it is applied on your objects. For exmaple, you can easily see if it is tiled or cropped (and how much). They have subdivision marks (tenths) too, so they make things easier. The numbered ones are for testing multi-materials.
- Take a look at this post, it's about textures' size.
- I would also recommend that you add some (pseudo-) lighting effects, using Dodge and Burn.
- Also your textyres are a little on the reddish/beige side. This can be greatly improved by performing some colour adjustments. Take a look at Gascooker's tutorial. It may look tedious at first, but it isn't really. Once you make this adjustment layer, you can apply it to more textures with a simple copy-and-paste. If you are using Paintshop Pro, you can even take it from the thread attachment.

Hope these help.

[jmyers2043]

Zach - regarding your foundation question. I did a two part tutorial that is located in my showcase thread. Have a read then ask questions if I need me to clarify something.

http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=536.120

Regarding the roof. Since you asked. It looks like you UV mapped the roof too many times.  I think the roof tiles could stand to be a bit bigger. I don't know what paint program you have but you should consider (for your next bat) a gradient on the roof. That would simulate where dirt is washed down leaving smudges from water run off.

Regarding HD. One thing to keep in mind is that HD needs to have nearly perfect textures. HD will really ( say again - really ) show case your textures as well as the small details you want to emphasize. Sometimes HD can make a bat look worse. I usually reserve HD for small things like props, a small sign, or a sim person. Basically, something that I want to see clearly if I zoom in at the closest level.

A general critique is that this is a nice bat and I like the concept and the general shape of the building very much. I like where you're going with it.

I don't know what your scale is but you should probably do a test render and get it into the game as a prop on a park lot. Plop it next to other university buildings and decide what adjustments you may need to make. Before you get too far down the road that is.

Good Luck with your bat.


Jim

[Zacharuno]

Hey guys, thank you so much for your responses, they were a big help. Sorry I didn't get back to this sooner. It's been a busy summer. That and I had the hardest time with my textures. Though I've updated my building a good deal. Texture wise. I've spent so many hours on the net hunting and in Photoshop creating.

joelyboy911 Thanks for that link. I appreciate it. I changed the roof texture completely. However. I'm worried that with this one when there are several buildings next to one another it'll look bad because of the roof. Let me know what you think. I didn't render more than one next to it, because I'm lazy, but I will in the future. I took your advise on the details though. I added some stuff that you'll be able to see.

thingfishs Thanks for that tidbit about the pixals and meters thing. It helped a good deal. Again, I added some stuff to the roof, let me know if it's working for you.

cogeo Technically speaking, no, this is not my very first bat. It's probably my third of fourth one, though this is my first one that I've done anything with this much detail. I usually give up, or get pissed off at the textures and stuff like that. Or I end up getting bored with it and just move on. The LOD thing, I found an article over at Simtrop about LOD's, so I understand them a lot more now. I changed my LOD to shrink rap, if you will, my bat and the underground parts don't show up once I put in the base texture in the LotEditor, and the trees actually show from all angles now. I attempted to add lighting to my bat, the first time I've attempting this btw. And I failed. You can see in the pictures how. I've also changed the color scheme up just a little. I had about six different schemes that I was looking at and I decided on this one. I can post the others if this one isn't working for you. But I like this one.

jmyers2043 I like your tutorial. I'll think of doing something similar if the need arises for this bat. But right now I'm expecting it to on a flat surface. Though that might change depending on where in my city I want this to go. The previous pictures where inline with the scale in game. Right now I'm working on the bat differently. I've realized that it's easier for me to work on it assuming one grid line to another is one foot instead of one meter. So I'll eventually shrink it 33.333% when it comes time to export it. The pictures that I'm posting now are in the one line is one foot mode. Not too much changes when I scale it down, I've tested it out that way too.

Here's what I have now, let me know how the textures are and the changes that I've made if they're working.

Without Lighting

This is what I have right now, no lights in this render. There is currently no glass in any of the windows. When I put it in it will just be a blueish hue at 70% opaque.




With Lighting

Both of these renders are the same as the one above but with some lights installed. This is where I'm in need of help the most. I've looked through this site and SimTrop, as well as several other sites online for help with lighting in gmax or 3ds Max, I have 2010.  I've never used lighting before so I don't know what I'm doing. Help me please.

The only glass in the render is in the lamps. I have them name 'nite' something or other. I don't mind the look of them, but I would rather it be more natural. I have omni lights inside of all three. Which is why the window on the porch closest to the strairs is really bright.  I don't understand why the spot lights on the ground are shining through everything. I've tried targetdirect, and spotdirect, and I get the same results. I've put the target being the leters, right on the wall inside the delta's, and I've put it a foot in front of the leters, and I get the same result on the walls each time.




Why aren't the omni and target lights bright like they are during the day. I don't really like the 'nite' windows in the lamps, but I like how they're bright and you can tell that there's light emitting from them.





One final thing. I would like to add some greenery to the porches and possibly some Ivy. I have this installed in 3ds Max, and it kinda works well. But I can't get my textures to appear in the perspective mode. I've also tried this one and I like the results that I get in program, but when I export it and import it into 3ds it doesn't look the same, the texturing is off. I've imported it into gmax and then it's really messed up, lol. I just want to add some nice green to my building. Is there's a 'simple' way to do so without props. Because I can't get those onto my porches.

Thanks!

[paroxysm]

Just a couple of things, Zach...

First, the model looks very good, and even better for a beginner!  However, I think it would look better with some kind of a wood texture or tile for the porch part.  With the bricks on the porch, the entire building looks a bit 'samey' and kind of odd.

Secondly, addressing the texture tiling (which you've cleaned up nicely), I remember seeing a tutorial on Simtrop that helped me with my texture tiling problem... I'll look for it and put a link here.

[paroxysm]

Found it!  http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=37&threadid=112841&enterthread=y

[Zacharuno]

Hi everyone! So I took some time off from SimCity, classes started and Civ5 came out, yes I'm a geek,

Anyway, I've recently started getting back into the game and there's always been something missing, as least I feel like there has been. So I'm making it my mission to create a decent football stadium to compliment JB's university. I doubt I'll succeed, but I'm going to try. Here's what I have so far. I'm look for any suggestions that can help make it better. Thanks in advance. I can also provide more detailed screen shots if needed.









I exported this one in draft because it was taking too darn long, so that's the reason for the bad quality, but you still get the point. I need to adjust the LOD so the ramp onto the field looks right and I need to finish up that area. But I'm not quite sure how right now, any suggestions?

[thingfishs]

Hey Zach,
big improvement with your house textures I hope you're not done with that one because it is quite a nice residence. So now you get the basic concept of texturing but you still need to do some fine tuning. The roof texture, though not tiling any more, looks too much like an oil slick for my tastes. Also I would recommend increasing the tiling on your bricks by at least double, they are much too big atm.

As for the night lights, they are tricky and largely counter intuitive at first (at least I found it so), but you'll get there. I don't quite follow you when you say "shining through everything" but it may be a leak (a common frustrating occurrence). If you get back to that project show us again and I'm sure someone will see what's going on. You clearly have a light(s) there that are far too bright and are causing a complete white out (loss of all detail), on the wall. These need to be reduced in intensity (or whatever it's called, I forget).

I like your field but the stands don't seem realistic to me. There are some pretty good american football fields around, have you seen scba's work for example? http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?p=files&keyword=scba&view=all

[Zacharuno]

Thingfishs, The townhomes I've set aside for the time being. I'll probably go back to them soon though, just more interested in the stadium right now. Once I go back to them I'll post a few picture of the lights in gmax to show my confusion. I think lighting it just something I'll never be able to do. lol

With regard to the stadium. I have seen scba's stuff. I actually use several of his facilities in my cities. However, I'm not satisfied with the size or look of the football stadiums, which is why I want to create my own. You say the stands don't seem realistic, how so?

Thanks!

[thingfishs]

Hi,
it's primarily the flatness of them which doesn't look right to me. Chairs/benches would stick out further and create more shadows. As it is it looks like you're just using a texture to represent the seating.

[Zacharuno]

Thingfishs, how's this?

I wasn't happy with the previous color for the seats anyway, so I changed them. The reason that they look weird to you might be how I have the bleachers set up. I'm basing this stadium loosely after my schools, and the bleachers are roughly the same height as the next row up, the concrete on that level. Kind of hard to explain.

[Zacharuno]

Here's where I am right now. I'm feeling like there's something missing. What does everyone think?

[thingfishs]

big improvement Zac, I didn't realise you were going for a full scale stadium - it's looking great (although beyond the scope of Clayhurst I suspect...).
The raised seats do look better. Dare I say it, but the main thing missing to me is all the people. ;-) How powerful is your computing setup? You potentially could get free human models from tubrosquid etc, make a small group and then clone like crazy. I know it's unlikely but thought it worth throwing the idea out there.

I assume this isn't a full quality render? I'm not a big fan of the primary brown you've used there (or the brown with grey patches) but it's a bit hard to see what it would actually look like.

[Zacharuno]

You are correct, this isn't a 'high' quality render, it was just a low. My laptop is a few years old now, so it can't handle everything I want it to do. Which is a reason why there are no people. Once I'm done with it if someone wants to add people they're free to do so, I'll send them a copy of file over.

I'm not sure what brown/gray color you're talking about. The seats are green, they're actually the same seats from the first render but with a different texture, I wasn't feeling the burnt orange I was using, besides, it came out as red, which I despise. If you could further explain what you're referencing, that'd be great. Ohhh, are you talking about the roof texture for the skyboxes?

Here's a high quality zoom level 5 render. I messed up and didn't render the one with the lights, but that's the only difference between this picture and the one in my previous post.

[thingfishs]

Hi Zach,

I was referring to the area with the blue arrow (brown), and the area on the roof with the green arrow (brown with grey patches).
My issue with both these textures is more or less the same, tiling. With the "grey patches" bit the repetition is fairly apparent and with the "brown" area the problem is more the lack of variation. But in both cases, and for a BAT of this size and quality, you really must learn how to do whole textures (rather than tiling ones). Do you have PS or gimp (or equivalent)?

[Zacharuno]

Hey all, here's another update on the stadium.

Thingfishs, I changed the roof texture completely. I don't have PS or anything, just Paint, and even if I did I'm too lazy right now to make a new texture, lol. I don't see any tilling with the brick texture, but maybe that's just me?

These pics are Zoom4 "Low" quality, for time purposes. The smaller "skybox" sections will have lights on it. For some reason they're missing from the bat. I probably forgot to save at them at one point.

[Zacharuno]

Here's an update. JBsimio was really awesome and gave me the brick texture that he uses for his buildings in the Clayhurst set, so now I'm using those so the stadium will match his buildings better. Thanks Jon! I'm also in the process of fixing a few little details that need to be fixed. I'm also adding some stuff to the "away" side of the stadium, as it just looks boring to me. Let me know what you guys think!

[thingfishs]

looking much better