SC4 Devotion Forum Archives

SimCity 4 Devotion Custom Content Showcase => Network Addon Mod (NAM) => NAM Inactive threads => Topic started by: jplumbley on January 14, 2008, 04:57:35 PM

Title: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: jplumbley on January 14, 2008, 04:57:35 PM
Hello all,

I am looking for a test group to test some new Transit Simulators based on the work Mott and I have done in this [Linkie] (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2665.0) thread.  What I am asking is for a diverse group of differing cities in size, type and function to test these new Simulators on and tweak/tune them to be better.  Those who would like to be testers may respond in this thread and I will require reports of how the Simulators worked in your test city or cities.

The goal is to complete these new Simulator files for the next version of NAM and allow them to be released on a mass scale.  The old NAM Simulators will be phased out due to the potential issues that have been found.  The changes are quite drastic in some cases and will need some fine tuning.

These new Simulator files are intended to keep the balance within the Simulator and allow for it to be smarter and work more realistic.  There will be changes to many things such as:

Maximum Commute Time
Network Capacity
Pathfinding Heurstic (Heart of the Engine)
Congestion vs Speed
Commute Time Graph Display
And more...

All of the values have been calculated to keep the original balance of the game and in some cases will extend the limits of the original Simulator.  I have devised one Simulator to allow for travel across an entire Large City Tile, whereas Mott's work was designed to keep the same vanilla travel distances but improve the basic function of the simulator.  These will be the 2 main Simulators that will be tested and both will have multiple versions of the Network Capacities.  There will not be a "radical" Simulator because it has been determined that it was more harmful than good to the Simulation of your game and could cause extra abandonment.

I am hoping to get a wide variety of city sizes and styles for this test.  The more information I recieve about this, the better we can tune these to properly work in game.  We need to work together.

Thanks in advance!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: BigSlark on January 14, 2008, 05:00:46 PM
Jason,

As a huge NAM fan and overall transit nerd I'd be honored to Beta test the new plugin.

My current region has 1.2m sims or so, on a very large region that has a large metro area made up of 5 large cities, a few 15-20,000 cities, and many, many smaller towns. The entire region is made up of large city tiles.

If you have any further questions, I'll be around.

Cheers,
Kevin
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: bigdope404 on January 14, 2008, 05:17:47 PM
jplumbley

I would also like to help with the testing of the Transit Simulator Mod.

I have a large region, made of all large city tiles, that is relatively undeveloped (around 5000 sims).

Currently, I use the 10X Speed, Commute, and Capacity plugin and I think it would be interesting to see

how the differently the region develops.

Feel free to pm me with any  questions and thank you for the work you have done so far with the NAM and SAM

Thanks,

Nolan Welsh
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: Pat on January 14, 2008, 05:55:06 PM
Hey Jason,

   Im willing to help in anyway needed with testing and would love to help out...
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: Starmanw402007 on January 14, 2008, 06:12:21 PM
I can assist with this project as a tester. I have plenty of free time on hand. Since I'm retired at age 43 LOL. I had to rebuild Steven's Point's after getting a New PC Complete with Vista Windows. Just need to know what my mission is that all LOL. Will read the thread you made too ok.

Your Friend;
Mayor Of Steven's Point & Maxiston
(Proud To Be Cities Of Sim Nation!) :)
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: xxdita on January 14, 2008, 07:51:18 PM
I can have a go with it to see how it works with CAM if you'd like.
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: Palpatine001 on January 14, 2008, 08:14:15 PM
I'll put my hand up for testing this on Solaria.

3 million sims spread over a continuing interlinked urban sprawl over 10 tiles varying on size from 989,000 to 6,000 sims per tile, and with different styles as the region evolves.

-Palpatine-
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: beskhu3epnm on January 14, 2008, 09:07:23 PM
Some testing results to share with the community.

I installed this mod in a region with almost 2 million people, in a city with merely 400,000. I did so on a large tile, anxious to see the results. I'm running the CAM, and some extra stage 8's (the ones I couldn't let go of). The city itself is fairly well balanced as far as RCI goes.

The transportation network that I have designed is somewhat grid happy, with emphasis on subway transportation. This is supposed to be the region's commercial and residential epicentre. It was formerly a city with 1.5 million sims, however it was razed to make room for CAM. I since lost interest (briefly - tonight I'm back in it) in the game.

Leave me alone regarding my city's money situation. Taxes rule, okay!

Anyways, I've got some before shots of some of the graphs, city, and data views.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg213.imageshack.us%2Fimg213%2F8881%2Fcongestionbeforesj9.jpg&hash=dd615e84182abfe17fdc15ad60fcfe594b4185ea)
Showing my decent job at managing traffic

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg166.imageshack.us%2Fimg166%2F7394%2Fbeforepluginiy2.jpg&hash=4a8399f9422f366d0b09fbf59bf7f07ed981db37)
Showing my traffic numbers

Now time to install the mod.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg213.imageshack.us%2Fimg213%2F9172%2Fplugininitialeffectsusawj5.jpg&hash=229e6dc64808f57dc7b99bec864a2442f97847d5)
These are the inital effects the mod had on overall traffc volume, the red line indicating where i installed the mod.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg166.imageshack.us%2Fimg166%2F6629%2Fplugininitialeffectscomdq4.jpg&hash=f5ebf726068188d79fb5ea11524edc2fa3c92b36)
Did the same with commute time. The initial impact is very noticeable.

5 or so years later.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg166.imageshack.us%2Fimg166%2F8711%2Fpluginlatereffectscommuuk0.jpg&hash=fc866aafb518acc895b3f92cda8341eb21df6811)
Commute time remains steady after install.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg166.imageshack.us%2Fimg166%2F2092%2Fcongestionaftertj8.jpg&hash=818ce8cee16b5cc7048fe97cd09e275b3b03ba08)
Congestion has been relieved. The roadways appear all green. The subway lines also appear green. Subway usage has increased across the board. Where you see red/orange/yellow dots is on the actual station platforms themselves, as the subways are beyond 200% capacity.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg213.imageshack.us%2Fimg213%2F9052%2Fsubwaystationcongestioncw7.jpg&hash=bc5164a77f95acdbc9b290f1f874e350ea75b224)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg263.imageshack.us%2Fimg263%2F2064%2Fpluginlatereffectsusagexy8.jpg&hash=0d5d73c51d73e0d0d1e81ba860861632f104b047)
Overall, the impact of the mod was immediate, and was sustained.

Thoughts on the mod:
Overall, I'm going to use this, whenever it is released, etc. The benefits allow you more freedom when planning your city to achieve a more realistic design. I no longer have to place subway stations every 50 ft.

Does it make the game too easy? No. I think it strikes a more realistic balance. Would you get on a congested road knowing it was the shortest *distance* route if it were completely clogged and other routes existed that were not clogged thus making it faster?

Seems logical to me!
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: flame1396 on January 14, 2008, 09:16:06 PM
I may be useful, not big on testing but I use mostly streets. Different style for sure. Everything routes to rail or highway, and eventually maybe a bit of subways. Also a big emphasis on busses, stops every 4 tiles or so.

So, as I read from besk's post this makes people find detours to avoid clogged roads? If so, its exactly what I've always wanted.

EDIT: extra info, I don't use the CAM, and don't plan to. If this makes a difference.
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator-Dial-up Beware!
Post by: BigSlark on January 14, 2008, 09:39:58 PM
So, it seems that Travis beat me to the punch!

First, a little about the test city: its the city of Tuskalusa, the commercial and governmental hub of a region of 1.8m or so sims. It also has a decent sized industrial area, its mainly IM with some IHT and limited ID. There are about 50,000 more jobs than residents in the city, give or take a few thousand.

The city has decent rail and GLR coverage with pretty good bus coverage. Congestion has always been a problem in this city due to the lack of a subway system. I am a huge CAM fan and after using it for the past few months I wouldn't have it any other way. :D

I missed that Jason wanted congestion map pictures, so I'll have to describe them at the relevant places.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi152.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs196%2Fbigslark%2FCommute%2520Engine%2520Testing%2Fcommutetest10000.jpg&hash=ba2a1f5399d158eb04dbb2f6e2afc3bc1343cf41)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi152.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs196%2Fbigslark%2FCommute%2520Engine%2520Testing%2Fcommutetest10001.jpg&hash=645ab8c56143700f2824e145d998f5f47be48806)

These two are the base line graphs just to know how things started out.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi152.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs196%2Fbigslark%2FCommute%2520Engine%2520Testing%2Fcommutetest10002.jpg&hash=b1ac865b7d8f0b8af478abbe1fd96c7111c49928)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi152.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs196%2Fbigslark%2FCommute%2520Engine%2520Testing%2Fcommutetest10003.jpg&hash=9d2cb5d4de9d0dc1bfbe875acc20ffa50c06b6d4)

After ten years, traffic volume and commute time have leveled out. Some of the rail stations are still red as are some GLR stations. Several streets were upgraded to roads after abandonment of a few R$$ and R$$$ stage 12-14 towers that were connected only by streets and bus stops. After I did this no more abandonment problems were evident.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi152.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs196%2Fbigslark%2FCommute%2520Engine%2520Testing%2Fcommutetest10004.jpg&hash=3c5930d8a5f7802a3f21bd99462e62bc2cb49671)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi152.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs196%2Fbigslark%2FCommute%2520Engine%2520Testing%2Fcommutetest10005.jpg&hash=263164375d8893ca5a1c31b6d47f589c55c80bdb)

After 27 years its more of the same. Some rail stations and GLR stations are still maxed out, however, no abandonment issues and everyone seems to be getting to work just fine. I tweaked some of my GLR station locations, added some stations, and added some bus stops in an attempt to make the commute smoother.

Generally, I find that sims commute in a more logical fashion, instead of having thousands of people leave the city for jobs elsewhere, they stayed in town and I actually have commuters coming in to the city now!

I'm not entirely sure how Jason intends to tweak things further, but I look forward to what he comes up with.

Cheers,
Kevin
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: RippleJet on January 14, 2008, 11:05:32 PM
Let me remind any testers who are also running CAM, that you will need to remove anything found in the z_CAM folder.
Otherwise CAM's Promote Biking (or whichever pathfinding you installed with the CAM) will take precedence.
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: Pat on January 15, 2008, 12:37:14 AM
OK Tage thank you, I'm glad I saw that post before running  ;)
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: SC4BOY on January 15, 2008, 02:46:52 AM
I have some time too.. I've got a couple of low-mid sized regions 1 with cam and 1 without.. be happy to help

edit: Hmm.. I don't see the test program.. am I the only one who can't read? lol

Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: Starmanw402007 on January 15, 2008, 11:29:32 AM
Hey Jp, I've tried to extract the files, so I can begin the testing. But vista windows wont allow me to open ()what(). I have no idea of how to work around this problem.

Your Friend;
Mayor Of Steven's Point & Maxiston
(Proud To Be Cities Of Sim Nation!)
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: Haljackey on January 15, 2008, 11:36:20 AM
jplumbley:

If you would like to try out the simulator in very large, dense cities, then I can help you out.  I have some large city tiles in excess of 2.5 million residents and 2 million jobs.  My road/transport network is well laid out in my opinion, so if you need a tester in this scenario, then I can offer my assistance.

You can have a quick look at what my cities and transport infrastructure look like by visiting my new MD here @ SC4D (The Greater Terran Region, link in my signature).  If you think that it is suitable for testing, then let me know. 

Best,
-Haljackey
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: Jonathan on January 15, 2008, 11:46:13 AM
Quote from: Starmanw402007 on January 15, 2008, 11:29:32 AM
Hey Jp, I've tried to extract the files, so I can begin the testing. But vista windows wont allow me to open ()what(). I have no idea of how to work around this problem.

Your Friend;
Mayor Of Steven's Point & Maxiston
(Proud To Be Cities Of Sim Nation!)

I have had this problem before with other zips on vista Try downloading WinRAR, there is a 40-day free trial that has so far lasted me 6 months the only limitation being when you run it is says youre trial has ended but you can just click OK and continue as normal
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: LoneRanger on January 15, 2008, 12:51:44 PM
@jplumbley:
I am using mott's a03 version and am very happy with it.  :thumbsup:
Since I started using it I removed the "promote biking" plugin but don't know what my NAM settings are as to capacity and speed.
But after reading RJ's post I hardly think it mathers since mott's file loads last. 
My biggest town is almost 500K spreading medium density Residential on a large tile and still not using subways or monorail.  :D
Congestion is not to bad, some red , a little orange but mostly green.  ()stsfd()
If I can be of any assistence just let me know, I love traffic and building a city on/around it. [comercial zones loves traffic]
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: jplumbley on January 16, 2008, 10:05:31 AM
Thank you for the reports BigSlark and Besk.  I will read them and include them in my interpretations.  If you guys have any more cities to test this on of varying sizes, please do so.  The more information the better my interpretations and expectations can be.

Thank you everyone else who has offered to help test.  I have contacted everyone so far and most of you have been sent the file.  I expect to see some more reports coming in soon.  Please, make the format of your reports similar to what you have seen already.  The more information you can provide the better, this does not only effect how traffic flows through your cities but due to the side effects of traffic it can help other things within your cities.

@Starman402007   The file I sent is not a zip file... It is the raw DAT file, you may save as and put it directly into your plugins.
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: Haljackey on January 16, 2008, 07:14:44 PM
Well, after running my city with this new plugin for 15 minutes, it crashed.   &mmm (and it took me an additional 15 minutes to start it up!  :bomb:)

Oh well.  I don't think its a biggie, I will try it again sometime soon and see if it was actually something I did rather than IT.

In that time span, the traffic data/graphs did not update yet, and thus I have no information as to how it is working in my city Yet.




In the meantime, I did manage to capture some pics of my charts/graphs BEFORE I installed the plugin.  I am not using the CAM or any traffic modifier mod.  The pictures follow below:

Traffic data:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg527.imageshack.us%2Fimg527%2F614%2Fdowntownaug221651200537xm0.jpg&hash=66607fe960b2303d35946ab5c35ede70f689a200)

Traffic Data: (Chart cropped from the rest of the image, not compressed for better clarity)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Feasy2upload.net%2Feditor%2Ftemp%2Ftemp%2F%2Ftemp%2F99.249.178.161%2Fimg_edt_mod.jpg&hash=dd0705eea7b636ff4636935c260c096fb5469ad0)

Original image found here (PNG Image, unedited)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg145.imageshack.us%2Fimg145%2F187%2Fdowntownaug221651200537cm5.th.png&hash=f3ca9e210cc7f1a209fbba34cc3c534083d2b493) (http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/187/downtownaug221651200537cm5.png)

Traffic volumes (1 year)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg341.imageshack.us%2Fimg341%2F8567%2Fdowntownaug221651200537yv6.jpg&hash=ddaa225a6aeda38a2173b23cd9b3d191fb24c486)

Traffic volumes (100 years)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg299.imageshack.us%2Fimg299%2F4427%2Fdowntownaug221651200537mc5.jpg&hash=e11900fdf1133233653944bb378fbdf17abaa5a7)

Commute time (1 year)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg213.imageshack.us%2Fimg213%2F1023%2Fdowntownaug221651200537jq5.jpg&hash=8dc4db8d4d8938c943ecc5141d8104eeff621f1d)

Commute time (100 years)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg237.imageshack.us%2Fimg237%2F764%2Fdowntownaug221651200537vy5.jpg&hash=d681fa490b484f9d48fd8325000248f5b683c5c3)

Jobs and pop (just for further reference, showing you the amount of each class of zone/wealth is in the city)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg293.imageshack.us%2Fimg293%2F6407%2Fdowntownaug221651200537ln9.jpg&hash=128612d726c0c726f1d44959a4c1ca0ffeef3a03)

Anyways, I should be able to try it again sometime tonight, tomorrow by the latest.  I will post my findings here once again when some actual results come in.  I hope you found this info handy!

Best,
-Haljackey
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: Starmanw402007 on January 16, 2008, 08:19:49 PM
Ok, thanks tarkus... I have some photos here of Steven's Point with the Nam Traffic Simulator. My ? is, what am I looking for with this simulator?

http://<center>
<a href="http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee307/Starmanw422007/StevensPoint-Sep26011200542907.png" target="_blank">
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi235.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee307%2FStarmanw422007%2Fth_StevensPoint-Sep26011200542907.png&hash=b2ef525b8b2f275bddb3e345dc74df8e947bb6cf)</a>
</center>

http://(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi235.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee307%2FStarmanw422007%2Fth_StevensPoint-Sep26011200542907.png&hash=b2ef525b8b2f275bddb3e345dc74df8e947bb6cf) (http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee307/Starmanw422007/StevensPoint-Sep26011200542907.png)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi235.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee307%2FStarmanw422007%2FStevensPoint-Sep26011200542907.png&hash=201381a588afcd9757ace0c2dadbc7774e6ea444)

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee307/Starmanw422007/StevensPoint-Sep26011200542907.png

This photo is with the NAM Traffic Simulator that I installed into Steven's Point ok.

Your Friend;
Mayor Of Steven's Point & Maxiston
(Proud To Be Cities Of Sim Nation!) :)
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: flame1396 on January 16, 2008, 09:03:45 PM
Question, when I get a chance to mess with this on the weekend or maybe Friday will I need to delete the NAM file that edits networks speeds, commute times and capacities? Or does this run separately?
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: SC4BOY on January 17, 2008, 03:22:04 AM
The instructions are in the email to you with the file. They are VERY SPECIFIC about what to do.
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: jplumbley on January 17, 2008, 09:40:04 AM
Quote from: Starmanw402007 on January 16, 2008, 08:19:49 PM
Ok, thanks tarkus... I have some photos here of Steven's Point with the Nam Traffic Simulator. My ? is, what am I looking for with this simulator?


This photo is with the NAM Traffic Simulator that I installed into Steven's Point ok.

Your Friend;
Mayor Of Steven's Point & Maxiston
(Proud To Be Cities Of Sim Nation!) :)

Thanks for the pictures Starman, but unfortunately they are useless.  &mmm  In the first PM I sent you (I hope you still have it), I have a list of questions I would like answered.  These questions include showing me pictures of the Congestion and Traffic Data Views, also the Communte Time and Traffic Data Graphs.  Other questions include, has abandonment dropped (if an existing region), what your opinions of how the Sims have been travelling (are they smarter?).  Please consult the PM I have sent.

@Flame  SC4BOY is right, I have put installation instructions into the Email with the attached file.  Please read the instructions in there.  Thanks.
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: LoneRanger on January 17, 2008, 10:07:39 AM
jplumbley:
I pm'ed you a msg with my e-mail but didn't recieve the instructions + file yet.
You are a bussy man I know but maybe you overlooked.   ;)
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: jplumbley on January 17, 2008, 10:57:40 AM
Quote from: LoneRanger on January 17, 2008, 10:07:39 AM
jplumbley:
I pm'ed you a msg with my e-mail but didn't recieve the instructions + file yet.
You are a bussy man I know but maybe you overlooked.   ;)


I know it is there, but, as always.. I didnt have time to deal with it right away.  Ive recieved approximately 30 PMs in the past week, maybe more.  And still had RL to deal with.  I will send you the file by the end of tonight, I am about to start class now, so this is not a time to send you the file.  I promise you will have it sometime tonight (my time is EST).
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: Starmanw402007 on January 17, 2008, 01:32:28 PM
sorry tarkus, I wasnt sure on how you wanted them. That was my fault. do u want a new set of photos with the graphs that u require? If so, I'll send u another tomorrow. Today, I'm keeping a low profile on my pc, I have tenderist of wright wrist and to make matters worst I have a sore back.
it's been like this for 3 days now. But will resume testing tomorrow ok.

Your Friend;
Mayor Of Steven's Point & Maxiston
(Proud To Be Cities Of Sim Nation!)  :)
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: jplumbley on January 17, 2008, 01:50:15 PM
Quote from: Starmanw402007 on January 17, 2008, 01:32:28 PM
sorry tarkus, I wasnt sure on how you wanted them. That was my fault. do u want a new set of photos with the graphs that u require? If so, I'll send u another tomorrow. Today, I'm keeping a low profile on my pc, I have tenderist of wright wrist and to make matters worst I have a sore back.
it's been like this for 3 days now. But will resume testing tomorrow ok.

Your Friend;
Mayor Of Steven's Point & Maxiston
(Proud To Be Cities Of Sim Nation!)  :)

Yes that would be quite helpful.  New pictures and answers to my list of questions in the PM I sent would be great.  There is no *rush*, but like with all things the sooner I have testing completed, the sooner I can put together a release candidate.

BTW, Im not Tarkus..  $%Grinno$%  I know, we may have similar styles and may look alike sometimes, but, I can assure you that we are completely different people  :D
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: Starmanw402007 on January 17, 2008, 03:50:51 PM
sorry about jp. I didnt mean to call u tarkus. Sometimes I get confused abit lol. especially, when I'm not doing well LOL.
Your Friend;
Mayor Of Steven's Point & Maxiston
(Proud To Be Cities Of Sim Nation!) :)
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: kassarc16 on January 17, 2008, 08:41:58 PM
When this is released for a more widespread beta, will mott's tweaks to automata settings be included? His settings on appearance/dissapearance and speeds were great, but I went back to NAM automata since his visual settings were too low and my city of 1/4 million barely had any traffic on the roads.
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: jplumbley on January 17, 2008, 10:27:48 PM
Quote from: kassarc16 on January 17, 2008, 08:41:58 PM
When this is released for a more widespread beta, will mott's tweaks to automata settings be included? His settings on appearance/dissapearance and speeds were great, but I went back to NAM automata since his visual settings were too low and my city of 1/4 million barely had any traffic on the roads.

I have planned to use two central "cores" for the Pathfinding Engine.

I have built one based on my own calculations to expand the distance that Sims will travel, while keeping the game in a healthy balance.  This is the "core" that is in the current testing release.  This "core" has been designed to allow Sims to travel upto the distance of 1 Large City tile or 512 tiles on an Avenue.  This will allow for the suburb/CBD setup in a large city tile to function much better.  Sims theoretically, should now be able to walk upto 43 tiles instead of 7.  The pathfinding should be much more realistic and balanced.  It should also make the Sims choose better paths if a route becomes congested compared to another route and spreading the traffic amoungst the differing routes.

Mott has also built a "core" that is based on the Vanilla distances for Sims to travel.  His "core" does much the same as mine, except the main difference is his keeps the balance at the Vanilla distances.  This means Sims will still walk upto 7 tiles, cars wont travel across a large city tile unless forced, etc.

Now, obviously, as you have stated there can be issues with the Capacity levels.  Well, this is one thing I need to address.  My intent is to build a few differing variations of each "core", the only difference being Capacity levels of the networks.  The problem is I require testing for this.  Right now, I am trying to make sure that the "cores" are balanced and wont harm your city when implemented.  Theoretically they are balanced from a mathematical viewpoint, but you never know until it is tested.  So far I am pleased with what I have seen.

Telltale signs that the Simulator is unbalanced:
1.  Abandonment when there is sufficient demand and jobs available.
2.  Sims taking obscure paths.
3.  Possible Abandonment/Repopulation cycle. (can be caused by other things aswell, such as poorly designed network structure, other Simulator issues, etc.)
There are others aswell but these are big ones.

@Haljackey  I have to say I am not sure what has caused your CTD.  This is not an expected outcome and I have a hard time agreeing that it is my file that caused it.  Here is what would be expected.  Simulators are VERY dependant on processing power.  I dont know how big your processor is and am not sure if this is even the problem, just my first thought.  When a new Simulator is installed into a large existing city (such as yours), the game will have to re-calculate and process every Sims new path.  Now, there is a time limit on how long this calculation is allowed to take.  This time limit is widely considered to be approximately 6 months and is always is months no matter what speed you are running your game at (slow, meduim, fast or very fast).  So, the more Sims you have the more calculations there will be to calculate, which means more processor time.  Now, obviously, if the calculations take longer than the alotted time MAXIS wouldnt allow your game to crash.  That would be just foolish. 

So, what really happens is the areas that the calculations are not finished? 

The answer is simple.  You get the famous, abandoment due to long commute times.  So, I dont know why your game crashed, but IMO I dont believe it is from the Simulator.  But, there is a way to test this theory a bit.  I am going to assume that you put the game to simulate for a few months on Cheeta Speed.  Due to the fact the game allows for approximately a 6 month time allotment this means this time is a variable of what simulation speed you use.  So, if you have it on Cheeta Speed it will have a much shorter time than on Turtle Speed.  In all actual fact, the best theoretical speed to play Sim City is on the slowest speed setting because it gives ALL of the Simulators more time to do what they are best at.  Your simulation will be more accurate and everything should work better.  So, my suggestion is for you to test this file on Turtle Speed and then come back again with what happens.
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: xxdita on January 18, 2008, 07:04:35 AM
- Abandonment - CAM is "enhanced" with bones1's Less Abandonment Mod, so typically, instead of higher stage or high wealth buildings growing in an area likely to delapidate, you get no growth at all. So especially at the higher stages of CAM, efficient transit is absolutely essential to avoid abandonment, and helps with new growth, often creating an artificial Stage Cap. I experienced very little difference in abandonment, probably due to avenue capacities.

- do you think the Sims have become smarter in the way they choose paths. 
   Seem to go a little more out of their way for a faster commute, when possible. More willing to walk to a subway station now.
- pictures of the Data Traffic views, both Congestion and the specific Traffic Views. 
    Before installing...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FSC4D%2FScreenShot124.jpg&hash=3d155168b57c99407a4213f78645f67b7a43e5ec)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FSC4D%2FStartingCarTraffic.jpg&hash=ef23b2555221b3f0ec661c296660e677a9003c06)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FSC4D%2FStartingSubwayTraffic.jpg&hash=a9ae6c688d4e221666be9f3126f609eeeda63f2a)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FSC4D%2FStartingCommuteTimes.jpg&hash=49a660d6be12a0af0f3c19004504ab8f01ed9944)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FSC4D%2FStartingTrafficVolumes.jpg&hash=d93bb8b5623b576304a55d8e88e9f766eb9d5cb8)

    After one year with the new Mod...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FSC4D%2FNewCongestion.jpg&hash=f8fb30e9a82d179988e8bdfc5b1ef487c63a6f2f)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FSC4D%2FScreenShot136.jpg&hash=e5c66f73213640816fbe7f70d0dd90b922ea954d)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FSC4D%2FScreenShot134.jpg&hash=d89c015cee78948ea4cb91484968b4414580c1d6)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FSC4D%2FScreenShot139.jpg&hash=0a1b1fbfaede5fbf86b6953652b9d9ae970cc934)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FSC4D%2FScreenShot140.jpg&hash=b0fc51ba2d69fa183dfc971cbda5a3809b097910)

- If this Simulator has had an effect on your city, what does it do? 
   Improves subway use, but avenues are now overwhelmed, due to having the same capacity as streets.
- Does it make you change the way you play the game when laying your Transit Systems? 
    Able to use less subway stations & bus stops, with Sims willing to walk farther now. For CAM, we're going to need larger capacity bus stops, subway stations, etc. I'm using Ninja Boulevard Kiosk, with a capacity of 16,000. But several stations are now overfilled. Mass Transit is funded at 120% maximim.
- What is the size of your test city? 
     medium tile, just over 2Million Sims
- Do you have CAM installed?  Yes.
- What areas have the highest traffic? 
Avenues are the most over-capacitied. Streets & roads have cleared up for the most part.
- Is your Traffic Congestion all green now?
   Nope.
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: jplumbley on January 18, 2008, 08:24:46 AM
Wow.  Good job there xxdita!  :thumbsup:

I have a couple more questions for you now.

What was your original NAM_Traffic_Simulator (my guess Radical or 10x Speed, 10x Commute, 10x Capacity)?

If this is the case that would definately account for the massive drop in car travel.  Since your city is so large you are getting to the point where Mass Transit should be taking preference.  Currently, my Simulator has traffic capacities very close to 2.5x the Vanilla Values for Car networks.  But, I have drastically changed the Mass Transit to having 10,000 per line.  In real life, Mass Transit does have a much higher capacity than surface roads.

As I have said there will be different variations which have different Capacities.  I will probably be making 3, maybe 4 Capacity Variations per "Core".  I will probably name them Easy, Medium, Hard, Vanilla.  My thoughts on how I will go about this progressive system will probably be Vanilla, Vanilla x1.5, Vanilla x2.25, Vanilla x4.5, with a new capacity design for Mass Transit.

What is your overall feeling of the Simulator at this point?  (Feel free to test this a little more in different cities aswell).
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: LoneRanger on January 18, 2008, 10:58:22 AM
Kinda weird, I get different results compared to xxdita.  :)

Inhabitants: 490K
Mass transportation: Bus and Train [last one mainly to travel out of the city]

Congestion at the start of testing:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fxs223.xs.to%2Fxs223%2F08035%2Fnaamloos276.jpg&hash=d4fd60529eb500d52e1eeb48b5d42ddbec58782d)


After a few years all turns green:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fxs223.xs.to%2Fxs223%2F08035%2Fcongest407.jpg&hash=30bfb80f0f693f8e3546ca0ffcdd6b8b1e7569de)

Comute time decreases rapidly:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fxs223.xs.to%2Fxs223%2F08035%2Fcomtime597.jpg&hash=616a42957c32ccac48a569c88446d41a969b224a)

Volume:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fxs223.xs.to%2Fxs223%2F08035%2Fvolume2730.jpg&hash=a582e3b8f5546dd5c5fbd773bf3c50ff426e237f)

And the most interesting one:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fxs223.xs.to%2Fxs223%2F08035%2Fvolume341.jpg&hash=ca9a3e4632c2badb8ea1ab8f38c341da72fdb5d1)

As a sidenote, I have bustops every 6 tiles or less.
I didn't use radical but used only two options wich were set to 10X and 5X. [capacity and speed if I remember correctly]
I also used Mott's a03 traffic simulator in combination but since it loaded last it probbably overruled the first.
First I removed Mott's simulator but didn't notice big differences.










Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: Haljackey on January 18, 2008, 05:39:54 PM
All right, I now have something to report. 

I think it was me that caused the CTD last time, because it ran for a few good hours today and I exited the game properly this time, saving my data!

Anyways, here are my results.

Traffic congestion Data:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg301.imageshack.us%2Fimg301%2F1737%2Fdowntowndec817712006867qw8.jpg&hash=c1241ebdd8100b7ec83780cda600c020bf653c31)

Traffic congestion Data: Better quality (Unedited, PNG Image)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg260.imageshack.us%2Fimg260%2F5125%2Fdowntowndec817712006867hb1.th.png&hash=0b2cba4812f2aadad31e5c982771fd9c240976ec) (http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/5125/downtowndec817712006867hb1.png)

Traffic commute data (Morning)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg237.imageshack.us%2Fimg237%2F672%2Fdowntownjan281781200686rl7.jpg&hash=8ce28a59d3b1354a2e903f8c4585eaca7b5cbbf1)

Traffic commute data (Morning): Better quality (Unedited, PNG Image)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg254.imageshack.us%2Fimg254%2F2546%2Fdowntownjan281781200686dh2.th.png&hash=270880fb29f6135c1ee00a47a9ef4c6ce65f72aa) (http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/2546/downtownjan281781200686dh2.png)

Traffic commute data (Evening)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg338.imageshack.us%2Fimg338%2F2562%2Fdowntownjan311781200686vi7.jpg&hash=a16a8f0c621d4ae2d8a6de586b72a491545312c7)

Traffic commute data (Evening): Better quality (Unedited, PNG Image)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg81.imageshack.us%2Fimg81%2F3308%2Fdowntownjan311781200686nl6.th.png&hash=dffb0d611ae05754615137a9d1f6bdcd80f31d40) (http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/3308/downtownjan311781200686nl6.png)

Commute time graph
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg262.imageshack.us%2Fimg262%2F9439%2Fdowntownjan121781200686mg1.jpg&hash=c4d79f7e2105a239f0d98954692070a853e2743e)

Traffic volume graph
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg340.imageshack.us%2Fimg340%2F5549%2Fdowntownjan217812006867ts3.jpg&hash=5e25174fa9fe7e0811cef81cedb963c4ce226b50)

Jobs and pop graph
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg338.imageshack.us%2Fimg338%2F2377%2Fdowntownfeb917812006869xu3.jpg&hash=7c69fca504dc29d7ce0cd5a37fcc10d1f4fb05c9)




-Overall, the mod didn't do much at all.  There was really no change to congestion in any part of the city.  Commute time actually went UP!  Pedestrian traffic increased though, and overall, there appears to be LESS abandonment.

By the way, I let the simulator run for roughly 12-13 years over the course of around 3 hours.  Photos were taken along this timespan.  If you need any more information, let me know!

I hope you find this data useful,
-Haljackey
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: xxdita on January 19, 2008, 06:48:49 AM
I seem to be having a CTD issue as well, when trying to play existing cities where Promote Biking was used. New cities have no problems though. So, I'm in the process of building a new large tile city, not using either of these plugins. Once I get a respectable population, I'll run the game for 25 years with Promote Biking, exit without save, then run it for 25 years with your mod, for some comparisons. I'll be back with pics by tomorrow night.
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: Starmanw402007 on January 19, 2008, 09:20:01 AM
Is Photobucket down for some reason? for the pass 2 days I've been trying to get to photobucket. It's been very very slow to load. I do have an account there.

Your Friend;
Mayor Of Steven's Point & Maxiston!
(Proud To Be Cities Of Sim Nation!) :)
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: BigSlark on January 19, 2008, 10:44:35 AM
Nate,

How fast is your CPU? When I loaded a city of ~600,000 that used Promote Biking the simulator was on "very fast" and I didn't have any time pass for four minutes.

I've got a AMD Athlon64 3200+ that runs at 2.8 Ghz and 2GB of RAM.

Cheers,
Kevin
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: SC4BOY on January 19, 2008, 02:25:17 PM
Interesting bit of data.. this is a large city tile, but only 120000 People.  Note that I was originally using the 10x 10x improvedpath with BIKES on the CAM settings. Also this city was mostly built with STREETS except the main thoroughfares. You can see by this string of screenshots what happens.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg150.imageshack.us%2Fimg150%2F8255%2Ftransportinitxw1.jpg&hash=700c5586d98427c91b75dff0c9f7c810508b9baf)
Initial Shot before running..

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg251.imageshack.us%2Fimg251%2F9915%2Ftransport2wkbj1.jpg&hash=77f765bb695af22d3f2945c68b7f0dd038bc273f)
After 2 weeks of running

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg251.imageshack.us%2Fimg251%2F2425%2Ftransport4wkby0.jpg&hash=ca78aed701da9095226296f0b6b3d4b55bf5bc15)
After 4 weeks

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg148.imageshack.us%2Fimg148%2F6695%2Ftransport12wkvu9.jpg&hash=a49857da55e51c91d4f9f9ca219f7edaa474c1e1)
After 12 weeks

At this point it makes little sense in running it longer. It seems to me that what is happening shows a nice action on the part of the simulator.

First the streets begin to GO RED very quickly. This is because it only takes 200-500 cars to jam the streets without upgrading everything in the city to ROADS. This indicates to me that having the CAPACITY SETTING lowered as in the JP version is just too low for larger cities.. (this is just my opinion.. I hate to have every path in a city tile to have to be roads or better... In any level 2 residential density zoning I'd like to see still about 60% or more of them to remain as streets) The loss of the bike walks also loads things too, of course

The next thing to note is that the simulator TRIES TO EVEN OUT THE LOADS on each possible path. I think this is excellent.

At the end (there is nothing to be gained by running longer as the "choke points" are saturated and "it ain't getting any better".. hehe) Without replacing or mod'ing the transport hubs this just isn't going to significantly improve. Most of the relevant transport stations are operating at 400-500% of capacity.

Here's a shot of the COMMUTES. Note that in spite of the streets all being saturated, the commute time still has fallen significantly. As I don't know the details of the setup, I can't really describe the mechanics. I'm sure JP knows why.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg150.imageshack.us%2Fimg150%2F7412%2Ftransportcommuteut2.jpg&hash=e656d7f56679b471018cfee7a779b784943bcaf9)
Commute Time

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg148.imageshack.us%2Fimg148%2F9807%2Ftransportdensitydb0.jpg&hash=2396f242b0a0c80c367dcadb9cb61c24b5961018)
Traffic Density

Basic Overview of citytile/region shows this is somewhat of a "wheel and spokes" layout which I designed specifically to fight the COMMUTE CIRCLES problems.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg148.imageshack.us%2Fimg148%2F5924%2Ftransportcenterph9.jpg&hash=6bf47ae25f301e5fbb83bd23852102a70f5181db)
Center city tile

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg148.imageshack.us%2Fimg148%2F1689%2Ftransportregiondo2.jpg&hash=8dd5033a8d25443d4ab2023defab0565f47d0a5c)
Region overview

Dunno what all this shows, but should shed some light for a relatively early development.
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: Starmanw402007 on January 19, 2008, 03:24:49 PM
Hi BigSlark, my new computer has 2.87 GB now. And it's upto date with all the new stuff added with Vista Windows. But, whenever I goto photobucket it takes like forever to load. I have no problem with other website except for Photobucket. Perhaps they were updating their
webpage when I tried to log on.
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: jplumbley on January 19, 2008, 04:14:30 PM
Quote from: SC4BOY on January 19, 2008, 02:25:17 PM
Interesting bit of data.. this is a large city tile, but only 120000 People.  Note that I was originally using the 10x 10x improvedpath with BIKES on the CAM settings. Also this city was mostly built with STREETS except the main thoroughfares. You can see by this string of screenshots what happens.

Initial Shot before running..

After 2 weeks of running

After 4 weeks

After 12 weeks

At this point it makes little sense in running it longer. It seems to me that what is happening shows a nice action on the part of the simulator.

First the streets begin to GO RED very quickly. This is because it only takes 200-500 cars to jam the streets without upgrading everything in the city to ROADS. This indicates to me that having the CAPACITY SETTING lowered as in the JP version is just too low for larger cities.. (this is just my opinion.. I hate to have every path in a city tile to have to be roads or better... In any level 2 residential density zoning I'd like to see still about 60% or more of them to remain as streets) The loss of the bike walks also loads things too, of course

The next thing to note is that the simulator TRIES TO EVEN OUT THE LOADS on each possible path. I think this is excellent.

At the end (there is nothing to be gained by running longer as the "choke points" are saturated and "it ain't getting any better".. hehe) Without replacing or mod'ing the transport hubs this just isn't going to significantly improve. Most of the relevant transport stations are operating at 400-500% of capacity.

Here's a shot of the COMMUTES. Note that in spite of the streets all being saturated, the commute time still has fallen significantly. As I don't know the details of the setup, I can't really describe the mechanics. I'm sure JP knows why.


I will start off by addressing the Commute Time dropping, though your Congestion has grown.  I think this has to do with the Simulator recalculating alot of your paths.  The old Simulator is not very optimal, in fact it likes to use the same route over and over, especially when capacity allows it.  If the simulator starts using more routes as it did, it will allow for the Commute time to drop.

Now, about your congestion "issue".  The capacity is set much lower than 10x capacity (apparently what you were using).  Due to this you have built your city to be optimized to this capacity setting, which would actually remove some of the effectiveness of the Simulator such as the simulator spreading out the traffic amoungst all possible routes.  Another thing that seems to add to your congestion issue is first off you said you are using Streets, these are only set at 1000 capacity and not 5000 (I think thats what the 10x Capacity was set at).  The streets are in a fairly high density area with no "major route", due to this you are going to become more and more congested the further you build away from the bottleneck you have created.  Not only have you used the under capacity streets in high density zoning, you have also not used mass transit.  Rails, subways, monorails etc all have higher capacities, in the test file set at 7500.  If you had any of these in your system, your congestion problems would be virtually nulified becuase it gets Sims off the roads.

In real life, transit systems are built as a dynamic system where you cannot allow only one type of transportation.  My city has approximately 170k inhabitants.  We have one highway, busses and one main rail line, and we are widely considered a bedroom community (everyone commutes out of town).  At rush hour traffic in our city is almost a standstill because we havent put nearly enough money into our bus system as we should have and our rail system, well, that is a different story all together.  Approximately 60 to 70% of our "Sims" drive to work and that accounts for much of the congestion.  So, I feel that your test accurately portrays a very real situation.

Just wait till I release my mod on the Congestion Data View, that will show you the Actual Congestion in your cities and not the skewed MAXIS Congestion Data View.

Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: iamgoingtoeatyou on January 19, 2008, 04:41:23 PM
Nifty stuff!
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: jplumbley on January 19, 2008, 05:08:52 PM
For those who are testing the file, and those who are viewing this wondering what will this do for me when released.  Here is a draft of the readme that is not quite complete.  This will give you an idea of what is going on and maybe explain a few finer points to you.

QuoteThe NEW Traffic Plugins

Simulator "A" written by JPlumbley
Simulator "B" written by Mott

What are NAM_Traffic_Plugins intended to do?

Well, there are two Central "cores" named A and B for lack of a better identifier.  These two Central Cores have both been mathematically designed to re-balance the structure of the Simulators.  With new information discovered by Mott from investigations he preformed the previous Simulators have been found to be harmful to the game in some cases.  Not only were the old NAM Simulators found to be flawed, but also the Vanilla Simulator from MAXIS was found to have flaws in it aswell.  These two Cores have been designed to limit and/or remove these flaws, as well as expand on ideas MAXIS had that just simply were not implemented or not implemented properly.

What is the Difference between Simulator "A" and Simulator "B"?

These Simulators have been designed to do two different things. 

Simulator "A" has been designed by JPlumbley to extend the original travel distances set by the MAXIS Simulators.  For example in the original game the MAXIS Simulator allows the Sims to walk upto 7 tiles, but with Simulator "A" the Sims will walk upto 43 tiles to get to work.  This change in travel distance is due to the calculations used to allow Car Traffic to travel one full distance of a large city tile (512 tiles) on Avenues. 

Simulator "B" has been designed by Mott to work with the original travel distances set by the MAXIS Simulator.  For example in the original game the MAXIS Simulator allows the Sims to walk upto 7 tiles, therefore in Simulator "B" the Sims will walk upto 7 tiles.  Simulator "B" has also been re-calculated to be more balanced and provide better pathfinding overall.

Other modifications to both Simulators include changes to the follow properties with minor variation:

Congestion to Accident Probabiltiy - Revamped the probability curve.
Congestion vs Speed - Made use of this, not used to full potential by MAXIS.  Sims will now look for better routes if the network is over congested.
Trip Length to Minutes Display Multiplier - Used in calculations for time displays on Commute Time Graph.

What do the different difficulties mean?

The only difference between the different difficulties is the Capacity of the networks.  All have been altered from the original MAXIS Simulator.  Road, OneWay Road and Avenue have all been equalized in speed and capacity in preparation for the Network Widening Mod.  The following is a list of the Network Capacities for each difficulty:

Easy Difficulty

Street:                   2250
Road / OWR / Avenue:   5600
Highway / El-Highway:   10800
Rural Highway:      10800
Subway / El-Rail / GLR:   13500
Monorail:                   13500
Rail:                   13500

Medium Difficulty

Street:                   1500
Road / OWR / Avenue:   3750
Highway / El-Highway:   7200
Rural Highway:      7200
Subway / El-Rail / GLR:   9000
Monorail:                   9000
Rail:                   9000

Hard Difficulty

Street:                     1000
Road / OWR / Avenue:   2500
Highway / El-Highway:   4800
Rural Highway:      4800
Subway / El-Rail / GLR:   6000
Monorail:                   6000
Rail:                   6000

What effect will the different difficulties have on my play style?

The Simulators are designed to help your game calculate proper pathfinding situations for your Sims to find thier way to work.  Now, the Network Capacities have an almost equally important role in the way the Simulator works as the Maximum Commute Time and the Speed.  Some people will say that Capacity isnt important and can be set to anything.  Well this is only a half truth, while Capacity "can" be set to any setting it is not wise to set the Capacities too high.  If the Capacities are too high the Sims will never look for another route beyond the shortest path because your networks will never become congested.  If the networks are never congested no speed will be lost and Sims will only take the shortest physcal route.  Now, if the Capacity settings are set appropriately the pathfinding will act more realistic.  In Real Life roads become over crowded and then people look for other routes or new roads are built.  Having lower capacities will force you to design your networks more dynamically, plan ahead and provide more of a challenge.  But, if the Capacities are set too low, it will make the game too hard from a transit standpoint and prevent large cities.  If you have CAM, and a network capacity is set too low, one building may cause over congestion on any network if you are at some of the higher stage levels.

It is advisable that you choose your difficulty based on the size of the city you are planning to build or what stage you are in building your city.  Some general findings during testing find that for existing cities the Difficulties best preform at:

Hard Difficulty for cities upto 250,000 population.
Medium Difficulty for cities 200,000 population to 1,000,000 population
Easy Difficulty for cities 750,000 population and greater.

Of course there are for existing city sizes.  If you are starting a city from scratch, it is advisable to start on Hard Difficulty because it will allow you to build a city with a very well optimized traffic system.  If the city becomes too large your Simulator may benefit you moving upto Medium Difficulty.  But if you design your network from the begining to be optimized for Hard Difficulty, you may never need to get to Easy Difficulty.

What is the NAM_Traffic_Data_View Mod?

This is a modification to the Congestion Data View.  The original Congestion Data View is very skewed, what most people may not realize is that the Congestion Data View doesnt report Congestion in the way one would expect.  In fact, you will not notice the on the Congestion map that your networks do not start becoming yellow with congestion until they reach about 175% to 200% and dont actually reach red until they are over 300% capacity.  This is not very accurate a portraying when your networks start suffering consequences from over congestion.  Your networks will still end up having a speed reduction when the network becomes over 100% capacity, but you will never notice it until the network is more congested and begining to become yellow.

Due to this inconsistancy, the Congestion Data View has been edited to show signs of over congestion sooner rather than later.  This will not only help you avoid the consequences of Congestion and give you a more accurate reading into when the network starts to suffer the consequences.

I hope this has been somewhat useful to read.  The current settings of the test file are approximate to the Medium Difficulty Capacities.
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: SC4BOY on January 19, 2008, 11:04:27 PM
Quote from: jplumbley on January 19, 2008, 04:14:30 PM
I will start off by addressing the Commute Time dropping, though your Congestion has grown.  I think this has to do with the Simulator recalculating alot of your paths.  The old Simulator is not very optimal, in fact it likes to use the same route over and over, especially when capacity allows it.  If the simulator starts using more routes as it did, it will allow for the Commute time to drop.

I agree.. Of course this cities small size has not given me the time to "build up" the city transport as it only just started growing higher density lots .. the city is only about 5 years old.. I have spent most of the time on the outter tiles in order to build demands

QuoteNow, about your congestion "issue".  The capacity is set much lower than 10x capacity (apparently what you were using).  Due to this you have built your city to be optimized to this capacity setting, which would actually remove some of the effectiveness of the Simulator such as the simulator spreading out the traffic amoungst all possible routes.  Another thing that seems to add to your congestion issue is first off you said you are using Streets, these are only set at 1000 capacity and not 5000

The setting I use makes the streets 1000. The set you had me install starts to turn orange about 200, not 1000. The original streets are 100 so 1000 is 10x. If you thought it was different, either your plugin is incorrect or I somehow installed it improperly.

Quote(I think thats what the 10x Capacity was set at).  The streets are in a fairly high density area with no "major route", due to this you are going to become more and more congested the further you build away from the bottleneck you have created.  Not only have you used the under capacity streets in high density zoning, you have also not used mass transit.  Rails, subways, monorails etc all have higher capacities, in the test file set at 7500.  If you had any of these in your system, your congestion problems would be virtually nulified becuase it gets Sims off the roads.

You can't tell from those pics but there are only 2 ways into the CBD.. they have to use GLR and the avenue/ highway/ rail which are difficult to see there. Each "spoke" has GLR running into the CBD and the "transport hub" in the center of the city.  There also is bus service, but only inside each suburb and the CBD.. they do not have easy access between. This is a purposeful experiment on my part to both prevent commute loops and to force inter-tile traffic to go through the CBD. I guess the bottom line that I'm pointing out is that there is mass transit, but almost all of it is 5x saturated in those pics above.. I should have posted my transport breakdown. I'll do that later.. sorry didn't think of it.

QuoteIn real life, transit systems are built as a dynamic system where you cannot allow only one type of transportation.  My city has approximately 170k inhabitants.  We have one highway, busses and one main rail line, and we are widely considered a bedroom community (everyone commutes out of town).  At rush hour traffic in our city is almost a standstill because we havent put nearly enough money into our bus system as we should have and our rail system, well, that is a different story all together.  Approximately 60 to 70% of our "Sims" drive to work and that accounts for much of the congestion.  So, I feel that your test accurately portrays a very real situation.

Just wait till I release my mod on the Congestion Data View, that will show you the Actual Congestion in your cities and not the skewed MAXIS Congestion Data View.

Sounds interesting. The primary element of your layout that I like is the "congestion alternate searching" that you have allowed to develop. The rest is pretty much personal taste to me.

Always like to see people exploring though.. ;)
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: jplumbley on January 19, 2008, 11:44:40 PM
Quote from: SC4BOY on January 19, 2008, 11:04:27 PM

You can't tell from those pics but there are only 2 ways into the CBD.. they have to use GLR and the avenue/ highway/ rail which are difficult to see there. Each "spoke" has GLR running into the CBD and the "transport hub" in the center of the city.  There also is bus service, but only inside each suburb and the CBD.. they do not have easy access between. This is a purposeful experiment on my part to both prevent commute loops and to force inter-tile traffic to go through the CBD. I guess the bottom line that I'm pointing out is that there is mass transit, but almost all of it is 5x saturated in those pics above.. I should have posted my transport breakdown. I'll do that later.. sorry didn't think of it.


I have just double checked the Capacity of Street and it is 1000 in the test file I sent to everyone.

About the way your system is setup.  This is what I can see from the pictures and if what I say is wrong then, please correct me.

- From what it looks like to me you have GLR in Avenue as one of your main connections to your CBD.  The "two" networks cannot be considered separate entities in the reference to Capacity.  Unfortunately, the game cannot determine that there are 2 separate networks on one of these tiles.  Therefore, it cannot determine that there would be 2 separate Capacities.  It does however take the properties of the network it was based off of, in this case Avenue.  So, the capacity of the tile is that equal to an Avenue (if my understanding of the puzzle pieces is correct, and I could very well be wrong about what the capacity is).  But whether the capacity is set different from the normal Avenue, the effects of each traffic type still stack when determining Congestion.  You would be allowed X number of sims in this tile whether they be Cars or Trams.  This will cause a bottleneck, but if you notice this is not where your problem currently resides.  Your problem is currently the streets leading upto this area, Sims must travel upto and beyond 6 or 7 or 8 blocks in some cases to reach the Avenue.  When you have medium to high density buildings along the entire route, you are looking at approximately 600 people per block (minimum) the closer you get to the avenue the more stacking effect you will have from the Sims further away.  You will easily have 4,000 Sims after 7 or 8 blocks of travelling.  Especially in a grid system that is going to the same bottleneck it forces Sims into a limited number of choices.

The MAXIS Congestion Data View also will only show red at approximately 400% Capacity, Yellow at approximately 200% capacity.  Even though the traffic still starts having negative effects at anything greater than 100% Capacity.  So, effectively, your Streets closest to the Avenue are probably sitting around 350% or 3500 Sims on average.

- I could be mistaken about this but it seems as though your Rail and Highways only service the outlying areas, meaning none of the traffic within the city limits are carried by this, or at most very little of it is carried.  The Traffic Data View is what leads me to this conclusion since the only major traffic along the highways is coming into the city and there are no major interchanges until you reach downtown.

This is just the things that I think are causing your problems from where I am standing.
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: SC4BOY on January 20, 2008, 12:32:32 AM
Quote from: jplumbley on January 19, 2008, 11:44:40 PM
I have just double checked the Capacity of Street and it is 1000 in the test file I sent to everyone.

Then I have some error in my install or have left some file in. The red you see in my pics are 200-500 on the streets. This is measured via the "query path" tool, not extrapolated from the "congestion picture". I'll have to examine my files to try to see what in my file is resetting it.

QuoteAbout the way your system is setup.  This is what I can see from the pictures and if what I say is wrong then, please correct me.

- From what it looks like to me you have GLR in Avenue as one of your main connections to your CBD.  The "two" networks cannot be considered separate entities in the reference to Capacity.  Unfortunately, the game cannot determine that there are 2 separate networks on one of these tiles.  Therefore, it cannot determine that there would be 2 separate Capacities.  It does however take the properties of the network it was based off of, in this case Avenue.

Actually no.. this is purely because the stations in avenue that I am using are set to 5000 I think and they are 3x saturated on that avenue. That GLR in avenue was a last minute addition to the city to handle those large HKBAT R$ buildings by the avenue/glr. Originally the avenue simply passes by there with no connections. In fact I made a mistake in the intersection of those stations as I did not understand how the stations worked... or at least didn't give it sufficient thought. Each "housing clump" has a GLR (5 seperate lines + the GLR/Ave) of its own completely seperate from the GLRinAvenue which goes the CBD and certain "unload spots" on the way. They all converge on the central city sunken train station.. unfortunately its capacity is 5000 and its operating well over 25000.. ;(

**NOTE: I was going to attach a transport map so you could see the transport better, but when I exited the city tile to get the region view and switched to "transport view" it looked like THIS (bottom of this message) This started just this load.. I exited and moved around etc and it doesn't go away. I changed regions and it was ok on the other regions. Anyone have an idea of what this is, or seen this effect before? Only change I made was this mod and 2 buildings off the LEX (and re-packed it).


QuoteSo, the capacity of the tile is that equal to an Avenue (if my understanding of the puzzle pieces is correct, and I could very well be wrong about what the capacity is).  But whether the capacity is set different from the normal Avenue, the effects of each traffic type still stack when determining Congestion.  You would be allowed X number of sims in this tile whether they be Cars or Trams.  This will cause a bottleneck, but if you notice this is not where your problem currently resides.

It is interesting to hear though that the "GLR/ Avenue" are really a single path.. I hadn't thought about that before. An interesting observation I happened to make is that wheree I crossed the rail, I split out the GLR then ran it back into the AVE after crossing as there are no AVE/GLR puzzle pieces for "crossing over" cases. When I did that the GLR over RAIL (using the on-slope pieces) are bright red while the GLR/Avenue pieces are not... I suppose a peculiarity of TE lots?

The congestion numbers (for streets) are definitely in the 200-500 range. Stations are bright red in almost all cases, so the streets, though congested, are not all of the problem. And the "multipath" of yours is what is allowing it to work as well as it does. Without it it would be totally jammed with the usual "one red stripe" symptom.. :) If I had more or better stations, it would probably show even more streets being nice and red.. hehe

QuoteYour problem is currently the streets leading upto this area, Sims must travel upto and beyond 6 or 7 or 8 blocks in some cases to reach the Avenue.  When you have medium to high density buildings along the entire route, you are looking at approximately 600 people per block (minimum) the closer you get to the avenue the more stacking effect you will have from the Sims further away.  You will easily have 4,000 Sims after 7 or 8 blocks of travelling.  Especially in a grid system that is going to the same bottleneck it forces Sims into a limited number of choices.

This basic idea is correct, whether or not the details are.. ;)

QuoteThe MAXIS Congestion Data View also will only show red at approximately 400% Capacity, Yellow at approximately 200% capacity.  Even though the traffic still starts having negative effects at anything greater than 100% Capacity.  So, effectively, your Streets closest to the Avenue are probably sitting around 350% or 3500 Sims on average.

The numbers I have been giving you were read by the query tool, not by inferring anything from the map color.

I did go back as I mentioned above to take a screenie of the traffic volumes. Its good as they show all traffic types seem to increase. I don't know if that is just "the city was ready to grow" or the effect of your patch. I expect the latter... would suggest that it's doing a nice job.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg258.imageshack.us%2Fimg258%2F892%2Ftraffictypesux4.jpg&hash=a48ae348c2d0da23dee3f5b23907505b317ac5f2)
Traffic Volumes by Type

Quote- I could be mistaken about this but it seems as though your Rail and Highways only service the outlying areas, meaning none of the traffic within the city limits are carried by this, or at most very little of it is carried.  The Traffic Data View is what leads me to this conclusion since the only major traffic along the highways is coming into the city and there are no major interchanges until you reach downtown.

This is generally correct. Each suburb can use the "major arteries" only to go through downtown and to their destination. No vehicles may "jump the suburb" to bypass the CBD. This was a conscious decision.

QuoteThis is just the things that I think are causing your problems from where I am standing.

hehe.. there is no "problem" at all..other than some of the things we're gleaning from these discussions.  I've made no effort to "fix" the things shown in the  pics/graphs.. I had neither time nor objective, to readily attack a longer term test with a reasonable "A/B" test. It only takes a "snapshot" of the status from a standard to a "JB" situation. I think there are things to learn about it. The issue in my mind is not "what do I do to fix my city".. those are probably rather conceptially simple.. perhaps pedantic..   But rather, how does this act vs the "10/ 10/ better" NAM approach. The best observation in my mind is the nice feature of the "congestion driven multipath selection" shown.

I believe for that to work well, it almost will have to be "customized" or "scaled"  to larger cities for capacities. The range of traffic pathing AND station capacities just offer a challenge for the player.. as it should of course. For the "small town" I doubt it will much matter at all, but cities that range from say 100k to the 3 mil or so will have rather different problems. At least that's where it sits in my mind for now. I'll have to continue to wait and see what your/Motts, etc experiments reveal as applied to people's cities.

If they are set too low, congestion will QUICKLY build up even in a rather low-density city such as mine, and if too high, it will be unnecessary in any but the very largest city.. and still of course the capacity of stations will be severely tested.. hehe.. I'm gonna have to learn to mod those I can see right now..a situation which doesn't sit easily with me. I don't normally play with dense cities. I'm running this as my CAM test city and just playing with some ideas.

I will say that relative to the original NAM setup I had this is some improvement. If I run the city on the "old" settings, I start almost immediately to have a "demand sag" of abandonments due to "low demand". It doesn't seem to be a MAJOR shakeout as it shows some clearing, but I can't say long term as I have only run it out for a couple of years. The "JP patch" also gets this "sag", but it SEEMS to be not as bad. Time will tell.

Keep up the good work.


TRANSPORT MAP PROBLEM:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg248.imageshack.us%2Fimg248%2F9127%2Ftransportmapiq7.jpg&hash=88545be81a2c64789ee2fe311021ab5eab658325)
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: Starmanw402007 on January 20, 2008, 07:40:06 AM
I'm not sure why I'm not be allowed to load photobucket to upload my newest photos of Steven's Point traffic Simulator test. But for the past week I've been unsuccessfull at getting that website to load fast. I've been wanting to upload these photos now. Can someone tell me what's up? If Photobucket is down or just annoyingly slow? And btw, this is my 200th  post.
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: beskhu3epnm on January 20, 2008, 08:16:01 AM
Quote from: Starmanw402007 on January 20, 2008, 07:40:06 AM
I'm not sure why I'm not be allowed to load photobucket to upload my newest photos of Steven's Point traffic Simulator test. But for the past week I've been unsuccessfull at getting that website to load fast. I've been wanting to upload these photos now. Can someone tell me what's up? If Photobucket is down or just annoyingly slow? And btw, this is my 200th  post.
As a quick alternative, I traditionally go here:
Imageshack (http://www.imageshack.us)
I click the browse button, select the file and hit upload. The site generates a link (the bottom link - direct link) that you can use here at SC4D. I've never had any problems with this, and it does not require a login at all. If I have more than one image, I load as many tabs as images I have, and upload them individually, generating the links I need.

Just a suggestion if you're in a bind... sorry for threadjack! (Thread jacking when you are helping is definately appreciated - JPlumbley)

I shall enter round 2 of testing now... I have some ideas based on what ideas I've seen thus far...
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: Starmanw402007 on January 20, 2008, 07:42:21 PM
After trying to get into photobucket for 1 week. My new host will be imageshack ok. Now, I can go ahead and update my Nam Traffic Simalutor test of Steven's Point traffic. So without further due Here's the information you requested JP. I hope this is Correct. Can someone adjust the codes for me to make it so that the codes dont show. Thanks In advance.  (fixed codes) - JPlumbley

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg267.imageshack.us%2Fmy.php%3Fimage%3Dstevenspointsep17011200fv2.png&hash=955311a62da6fd20b14f4e203d9157a6041cc7df)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg267.imageshack.us%2Fimg267%2F4194%2Fstevenspointsep17011200fv2.png&hash=b780c390d215ea766e7759e9e53b390ac6c4c839)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg267.imageshack.us%2Fmy.php%3Fimage%3Dstevenspointoct70112006kk0.png&hash=ef320dd5016068c35ae49e5a49f1c4126bfdc30d)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg267.imageshack.us%2Fimg267%2F346%2Fstevenspointoct70112006kk0.png&hash=babfbff975a87ac3b0a594de72b8ec652367535a)

Are these the photos you want for nam traffic simulator test?
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: Palpatine001 on January 20, 2008, 09:07:36 PM
First Solaria

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi124.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp5%2FPalpatine001%2FSolaria-287m.jpg&hash=6aee73846756f8a92b2b83ff7568770ec55c07af)

A interconnected maze of city tiles housing 3 million sims

http://s124.photobucket.com/albums/p5/Palpatine001/?action=view&current=Solaria-TransitwithRHW.jpg

This is the transit network although parts of the RHW can not be seen.




First quick shake down test.

All cities minus the oldest three (Imperial Command Centre, Rangitoto Town and Te Puke) across all tile sizes and development classes have seen a remarkable improvement in transit conditions, I have noticed congestion decreasing a little bit as better commute times are found and the transit options available (I use all in an intergrated interlink system) being more efficiently used. Traffic volumes on the highways are up for commuters going that longer distance, thus I am theorising my highways where available are being better utilised than they were pre test. All in all, better utilisation of the highways as they were designed to do when I placed them, and more efficient useage of the interlinked mass transit system has caused a noticable increase in demand again in RCI although my higher capacity stations are filling to capacity faster than pre test. No matter as the later built cities are designed to take on higher capacity stations and extensions to transit lines. I have noticed jplumbly has looking at
QuoteCongestion to Accident Probabiltiy - Revamped the probability curve.
Congestion vs Speed - Made use of this, not used to full potential by MAXIS.  Sims will now look for better routes if the network is over congested.
Trip Length to Minutes Display Multiplier - Used in calculations for time displays on Commute Time Graph.

and this is most likely the reason for the more efficient commuting and a slight reduction in commute times (around 10% across all cities)

In my oldest three cities the highways maxed out real fast as well as the rail network in the respective tile causing some what of a nightmare to try and correct my end. However with these tiles having being originally developed pre Rush Hour then being constantly modified over the years, coupled with these 3 first cities of Solaria hold 50% of the region's population I am not surprised traffic congestion and volumes have skyrocketed. I believe this is due to the test file giving a more accurate reflection of the mass amount of traffic moving between the 3 cities (IPC being the largest and oldest city in Solaria at 900k and the all powerful RCI hub, Rangitoto Town at 400,000 in a medium tile, just as old as IPC and a Residential Hub, with Te Puke being an industrial hub). Further more indepth testing has to be done on these older cities and will be given in my next report at the end of the week.

A thing I noticed was all commute times in the commute chart going up by x10, a bug maybe as all buildings are reporting short and medium commute times as before the tests started? Ill get a pic of it for the next report.

Next report with graph samples out Friday NZT
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: bigdope404 on January 20, 2008, 09:30:28 PM
Here is my testing results.

I tested large city tile with a small population (1760) that is primarily a rural farming community.

The simulator I used before was the 10XSpeed, Commute, and Capacity. CAM was installed.
-  Abandonment.

I noticed no abandonment due to the Traffic simulator

- Another is do you think the Sims have become smarter in the way they choose paths.

The Sim have become noticeably smarter in choosing paths.
For Example:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg442.imageshack.us%2Fimg442%2F569%2Fclearwaterlakeoct128412ue6.th.png&hash=d3040fbe18f90096cd3ec56994445fc6dee3c39c) (http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=clearwaterlakeoct128412ue6.png)
Before Freight Trucks took the long way around to a street instead of using the Highway that was right there.

And After
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg249.imageshack.us%2Fimg249%2F7944%2Fclearwaterlakeoct108512ui7.th.png&hash=0f062957a517373e815434b4d654fb686579ee22) (http://img249.imageshack.us/my.php?image=clearwaterlakeoct108512ui7.png)
The Freight Trucks use the Highway.
Data Views

Before

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg442.imageshack.us%2Fimg442%2F7383%2Fclearwaterlakeoct128412at2.th.png&hash=582d6d55bbda8d9e42121ed1d0a2496681df0d8a) (http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=clearwaterlakeoct128412at2.png)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg442.imageshack.us%2Fimg442%2F9415%2Fclearwaterlakeoct128412bk8.th.png&hash=bb053912fc12e56b2a88485866d4a4c70cab540c) (http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=clearwaterlakeoct128412bk8.png)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg214.imageshack.us%2Fimg214%2F6017%2Fclearwaterlakeoct128412fl9.th.png&hash=f6f14f158d4b3ab8285c7fb1440d0cc87dd18e00) (http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=clearwaterlakeoct128412fl9.png)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg442.imageshack.us%2Fimg442%2F9577%2Fclearwaterlakeoct128412py7.th.png&hash=63988620e423dfe1b7d34a299559825d71699426) (http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=clearwaterlakeoct128412py7.png)

After 1 year

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg442.imageshack.us%2Fimg442%2F2508%2Fclearwaterlakeoct108512pg1.th.png&hash=604ea233ab8f15cf9885f619b98c11bbbaf79a69) (http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=clearwaterlakeoct108512pg1.png)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg442.imageshack.us%2Fimg442%2F3244%2Fclearwaterlakeoct108512zq7.th.png&hash=c423167281f1b5ddca8719be080de1173e47ebc2) (http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=clearwaterlakeoct108512zq7.png)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg442.imageshack.us%2Fimg442%2F7252%2Fclearwaterlakeoct108512kz2.th.png&hash=c5f88362170676027879c8b9b44266e37aed6d15) (http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=clearwaterlakeoct108512kz2.png)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg244.imageshack.us%2Fimg244%2F7903%2Fclearwaterlakeoct108512ws2.th.png&hash=891096d7edac8505657f5c3dd3bef4a984e48b65) (http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=clearwaterlakeoct108512ws2.png)


After 25 years

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg244.imageshack.us%2Fimg244%2F3408%2Fclearwaterlakefeb221091zy3.th.png&hash=2bd185a257b57486dcbb309356dc4effb3428209) (http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=clearwaterlakefeb221091zy3.png)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg244.imageshack.us%2Fimg244%2F6454%2Fclearwaterlakefeb221091tk6.th.png&hash=97e8fbcd05f51e6b0197c245bb40670357a3d056) (http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=clearwaterlakefeb221091tk6.png)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg244.imageshack.us%2Fimg244%2F3985%2Fclearwaterlakefeb221091hk3.th.png&hash=67aee5e8e668228989c239411bda8cb18d4d85b9) (http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=clearwaterlakefeb221091hk3.png)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg217.imageshack.us%2Fimg217%2F9043%2Fclearwaterlakefeb221091do1.th.png&hash=072f46b15aff338ad9127179a774d5dfea15ec41) (http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=clearwaterlakefeb221091do1.png)

All areas stayed green because of the limited commuters in the city.

I hope this data has been useful.
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: jplumbley on January 20, 2008, 10:01:19 PM
Quote from: Palpatine001 on January 20, 2008, 09:07:36 PM
First Solaria

First quick shake down test.

All cities minus the oldest three (Imperial Command Centre, Rangitoto Town and Te Puke) across all tile sizes and development classes have seen a remarkable improvement in transit conditions, I have noticed congestion decreasing a little bit as better commute times are found and the transit options available (I use all in an intergrated interlink system) being more efficiently used. Traffic volumes on the highways are up for commuters going that longer distance, thus I am theorising my highways where available are being better utilised than they were pre test. All in all, better utilisation of the highways as they were designed to do when I placed them, and more efficient useage of the interlinked mass transit system has caused a noticable increase in demand again in RCI although my higher capacity stations are filling to capacity faster than pre test. No matter as the later built cities are designed to take on higher capacity stations and extensions to transit lines. I have noticed jplumbly has looking at
and this is most likely the reason for the more efficient commuting and a slight reduction in commute times (around 10% across all cities)

In my oldest three cities the highways maxed out real fast as well as the rail network in the respective tile causing some what of a nightmare to try and correct my end. However with these tiles having being originally developed pre Rush Hour then being constantly modified over the years, coupled with these 3 first cities of Solaria hold 50% of the region's population I am not surprised traffic congestion and volumes have skyrocketed. I believe this is due to the test file giving a more accurate reflection of the mass amount of traffic moving between the 3 cities (IPC being the largest and oldest city in Solaria at 900k and the all powerful RCI hub, Rangitoto Town at 400,000 in a medium tile, just as old as IPC and a Residential Hub, with Te Puke being an industrial hub). Further more indepth testing has to be done on these older cities and will be given in my next report at the end of the week.

A thing I noticed was all commute times in the commute chart going up by x10, a bug maybe as all buildings are reporting short and medium commute times as before the tests started? Ill get a pic of it for the next report.

Next report with graph samples out Friday NZT

First thing I have to say... Pictures dude.  Anyways, thanks for the description of the way the Simulator has preformed.

I will comment first on the "increase" in the Commute Time Graph.  You cannot look at this compared to the Time from the previous Simulator you had installed.  Every Simulator is different, in fact, if you had ANY thing that effected Travel Speed or Maximum Commute Time then the graph would have been effected.  In most of the old NAM Simulators both or one of these two functions was edited, by doing this and not re-calculating the Trip Length to Minutes Display Multiplier the Simulator would definately distort the graph and make you see something different than the previous Simulator.

Now, the actual Commute Time is not actually measured in time, its measured in "hop counts" essentially and each tile has a specific "hop count value" to it.  This is unique to the network that is used, for example the cars on MAXIS Road had a network speed of 31.  This means that the car can travel 31 tiles per unit of time or one tile = 1/31 units of time.  Basically, if you multiplied the speed by 10 each tile would have a "hop count" of 1/310 units of time.  Maximum Commute Time defines the longest there and back trip a Sim is allowed to go.  In the original MAXIS Simulator it had a value of 6, so in a there and back trip you would be allowed to travel 6*31 or 186 tiles.  Of course you cant travel that far to get to work, because you need to get back.. so the REAL distance a Sim could travel was 93 tiles to get to work and 93 tiles home.  So, now we have the distance a Sim can travel... What I did was assume that a Sim could travel 512 tiles on an Avenue and calculated the Commute time if the Speed = 60 tiles/unit of game time.  Then assumed that the travel time was approximately 1 hour and calculated the Trip Length to Minutes Display Multiplier.  So, if your average commute time is approximately 30 mins on the display graph your average Sim Commute is about 256 tiles by Avenue, closer to 350 tiles by highway, and even further by the mass transit options.  This is more or less the way for you to read this graph, its by far not "real time".

Bet you never thought I could write 3 paragraphs about one little comment... Now you know better LOL.
__________________________________________________________________________________________

I would like to make a patch of the most widely used Transit Stations, but that would take quite a bit of time and there would essentially need to be 2 patches for each station.  One for my Simulator and one for Mott's.  What needs to be changed is the Traffic Switch Cost Property.  Most lotters do not understand how to use this property properly.  Most will either set it to 1 or 0, which unfortunately is not the best thing.  What needs to be done is a minor calculation, based on the Network it is designed for.  So, if it is a bus stop you are going to want to calculate it based on the speed of the slowest Street Network.  So, if the lot is a 1x1 Bus Stop, then you are going to want to set the Traffic Switch Cost equal to:

1 (number of tiles) x [1+3]/25 (speed of the Street network)  The reason why I have that +3 is because you want to give the bus stop a little bit of a disadvantage compared to the Road it is next to.  If you dont add something, the simulator may actually use the Bus Stop as a "short cut".  
__________________________________________________________________________________________

Anyways, thanks for the tests there guys!  Keep em coming.
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: Tarkus on January 20, 2008, 10:08:18 PM
Well, here's the results of my testing on a city of roughly 43,000.  I'm using jplumbley's Traffic DataView modifications in all of these pics.  The first simulator used is mott's a03, whereas the second is jplumbley's "Hard" plugin.

If you need larger pics, let me know.  I'm probably going to do a bit more testing on this as well, with different cities, and I may even compare it to the various existing NAM Traffic Simulators, out of curiosity.

Test Part 1--mott's simulator

Congestion--appears entirely green through the entire city:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg179.imageshack.us%2Fimg179%2F9146%2Ftrafficsimulator013hq3.jpg&hash=08502f27ffeefadc50426793e222689938bf8846)

Volume (Road Traffic)--Traffic appears fairly evenly distributed, mostly a light blue-grey color, though there are some points that are bluer than others.  The most volume reported is on the neighbor connection on the south side of the grid, in the center (the grid is facing north).

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg179.imageshack.us%2Fimg179%2F6893%2Ftrafficsimulator012bq5.jpg&hash=8e9c09b4cbca75639cabc4f95799b39355983279)

Volume (Pedestrian):  Usage appears fairly slight, scattered through various points in city, with probably the most coverage around the downtown area (near the center of the grid)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg179.imageshack.us%2Fimg179%2F5130%2Ftrafficsimulator011wt9.jpg&hash=9be255db7ad80429bf0682f5149a6e2269a3bfa6)

Volume (Car):  Similar to Road Traffic view.  The only two road-based modes of transportation used in the city are Cars and Freight Trucks.  (There are no buses, or any sort of rail or other mass transit in this tile).

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg179.imageshack.us%2Fimg179%2F108%2Ftrafficsimulator010vb1.jpg&hash=617d9037f4bfc5491875416991d88c050fa99ee1)

Commute Time:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg137.imageshack.us%2Fimg137%2F3633%2Ftrafficsimulator009ev9.jpg&hash=884c977b218a8272c100502a4c92c4c59ff30c12)

Overall Traffic Volume:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg137.imageshack.us%2Fimg137%2F7490%2Ftrafficsimulator008dz7.jpg&hash=e2bca19d07ba4190c0eeb9edbb2bfc513f9d0fce)


Test Part 2--jplumbley's Simulator

These pics are after about 6 months of running the new simulator, enough time for it to "kick in".  Very little change in the congestion/volume figures.  It does seem, however, that the pedestrian range has increased slightly, creeping farther west.   I also measured the most heavily-traveled section of road (the aformentioned southern neighbor connection), and it was peaking at just shy of 1,100 cars.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg137.imageshack.us%2Fimg137%2F1515%2Ftrafficsimulator005zt9.jpg&hash=2ea1ac39f0f729accc112316004ce52b9cae4534)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg137.imageshack.us%2Fimg137%2F7981%2Ftrafficsimulator004sj3.jpg&hash=bf2ef83cf7db90e7e37e623776993c03acc14c44)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg137.imageshack.us%2Fimg137%2F2618%2Ftrafficsimulator003bn6.jpg&hash=270c7b73dad0b2d620d56f335257543494e557c5)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg137.imageshack.us%2Fimg137%2F1721%2Ftrafficsimulator002fj6.jpg&hash=3758f02ae89b35e166fe0395a8a0dbebad15da9f)

The Commute Time has dropped slightly.  The point where the new simulator kicks in is just about exactly half way through the graph.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg137.imageshack.us%2Fimg137%2F9625%2Ftrafficsimulator007ch1.jpg&hash=f6c7da735df628bd788aa1bc09f187e93abc97f6)

The overall Traffic Volume supports the findings of increased Pedestrian traffic, with a slight increase in Pedestrians, and a slight decrease in Cars.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg137.imageshack.us%2Fimg137%2F493%2Ftrafficsimulator006gm4.jpg&hash=62fa522af0a63997901208c4c503162205a553d6)

Other Notes

There were no other unusual happenings (abandonment, etc.) in the running of this experiment, with either simulator.  The population in the city did increase by 176 sims over the course of the test, though this is negligible.

-Alex (Tarkus)
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: SC4BOY on January 21, 2008, 06:55:44 AM
Just a followon note about the simulator. The report I submitted covered a range of about 4 months where it seemed to "level out". I have found that over a period of about 5 years, I believe the "model" continues to level and smooth traffic even further.. This is good as it continues to level traffic over the entire grid.. even rather complex moves.

JP- is there a "boarding penalty" for all transit switches? I read that R$$$ sims are assessed 40 min "boarding penalty" for mass transit and was wondering if the act of boarding or switching transit modes is always assessed a penalty?
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: jplumbley on January 21, 2008, 07:11:42 AM
Quote from: SC4BOY on January 21, 2008, 06:55:44 AM
Just a followon note about the simulator. The report I submitted covered a range of about 4 months where it seemed to "level out". I have found that over a period of about 5 years, I believe the "model" continues to level and smooth traffic even further.. This is good as it continues to level traffic over the entire grid.. even rather complex moves.

JP- is there a "boarding penalty" for all transit switches? I read that R$$$ sims are assessed 40 min "boarding penalty" for mass transit and was wondering if the act of boarding or switching transit modes is always assessed a penalty?


Part 1 - That should be the cases.  Sims should level out and be smarter in their choice of work and path.

Part 2 - The Transit Switch Cost in many custom station lots does not get used.  It should to make the Simulator work and should be calculated appropriately, setting it to 1 is not the appropriate measure (which some people do).  So, if I had my way, then yes they would be affected by some sort of "boarding penalty".
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: SC4BOY on January 21, 2008, 07:56:58 AM
hmmm.. maybe I should have used the word "transfer" rather than switch... I understand and agree about the "transit switch" issue.. What I am referring to (and I don't have TRUE VERIFIED INFO that it is right) is that specifically R$$$ sims get a 40 min (how they decided it was "40 minutes" given the vagaries of the specific meaning of SC4 variables and its arbitrary units, I don't know) added to their commute time when they board mass transit (I don't know if that is the FIRST BOARDING only or for every transfer thereafter). The "transit switch penalty" you refer to is not wealth dependent is it?
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: jplumbley on January 21, 2008, 08:12:06 AM
Quote from: SC4BOY on January 21, 2008, 07:56:58 AM
hmmm.. maybe I should have used the word "transfer" rather than switch... I understand and agree about the "transit switch" issue.. What I am referring to (and I don't have TRUE VERIFIED INFO that it is right) is that specifically R$$$ sims get a 40 min (how they decided it was "40 minutes" given the vagaries of the specific meaning of SC4 variables and its arbitrary units, I don't know) added to their commute time when they board mass transit (I don't know if that is the FIRST BOARDING only or for every transfer thereafter). The "transit switch penalty" you refer to is not wealth dependent is it?


To my immediate knowledge there is no wealth dependant cost or maximum time for transit stations or transit commute time.  I can look again as I know there are wealth dependant properties within the Traffic Simulator that give the "chance" that each wealth will look at Transit before Cars.  I will investigate further.
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: Diggis on January 21, 2008, 08:33:19 AM
What I remember of previous discussions was that if a sim was forced to use a non prefered form of transport there was a penalty.  So if you have a city which forces sims to use mass transit and the $$$ sims have an 10% chance of choosing mass transit then 90% of them will get penalised for it. (I think)
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: rickmastfan67 on January 21, 2008, 10:17:13 AM
Starmanw402007, off topic here for a sec, but you shouldn't use PNG's to post your images from SC4.  Saving them in JPG format would have been a much better idea.  I just converted one of your PNG images into JPG format and it uploaded it to the end of this post.  Your original PNG was 1.23MB, but when I converted it to JPG, it became 278KB at Compression level 13 with really no image quality loss. 

Original Image in PNG format:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg267.imageshack.us%2Fimg267%2F4194%2Fstevenspointsep17011200fv2.png&hash=b780c390d215ea766e7759e9e53b390ac6c4c839)

JPG Compressed Image:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FSC4%2FMISC%2Fstevenspointsep17011200fv2.jpg&hash=248d1666cf86db64b58bf3a468eb0f0be282fa72)

You can find more info on how to upload your images properly by following the link in my Sig to the JPG Compression tutorial. ;)  I know every here would appreciate it. ;)  Now back to your regularly scheduled thread. :P
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: Starmanw402007 on January 21, 2008, 01:59:42 PM
Thanks for letting me know rick, I didnt know that.
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: flame1396 on January 21, 2008, 03:43:51 PM
Thought I took more pictures but I can explain everything...

First, commute times doubled, I think due to capacities being set back to defaults. I'll need to tweak that.

Second... rail, bus, and pedestrian volume increased and car volume decreased slightly

No real effect on much else.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi166.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu94%2FMedievalKnieval%2Fimg0000-6.jpg&hash=eb2275c2957930b5bbedcb9d1d232f6dc8d782d8)

I really can't say if pathfinding improved or whatnot because the capacity reset really doesn't work with my play style.
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: Palpatine001 on January 21, 2008, 09:54:11 PM
Trust you jplumbley to find my one and write 3 paragraphs on a tiny comment I made even though I mentioned shake down test, and conditions on my oldest 3 cities needing more indepth testing - ie need more time and not worry you will get your pics  :P

Btw thanks for the piece on Commute Time graph  :thumbsup:.

Now then end of week and Ill give an indepth report on IPC, Rangitoto Town and Te Puke.
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: Starmanw402007 on January 22, 2008, 06:33:57 PM
Hey JP, I have to start a new city of Steven's Point for Nam Simulator Test. Cause Sim City 4 itself started acting up on me LOL. I had to reinstall the game to make some things work ok. And I had a good city growing, fine time for game to act up LOL. Well, its back to the drawing board has they say.
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: xxdita on January 22, 2008, 08:27:05 PM
Suddenly, I'm facing abandonment & my traffic network just isn't able to deal with the higher stages of CAM. Can't get anything above a stage 13 to grow, even with ample Regional Capacities, and all other caps met. Played for 20 years, and routes changed consistently.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FSC4D%2FScreenShot214.jpg&hash=ab272bb5acdaa277e6d3732e56718d020b4a1830)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FSC4D%2FScreenShot215.jpg&hash=6073d7fb1ad06f8b6cf480bf25faffe8fc6962f0)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FSC4D%2FScreenShot216.jpg&hash=8d301cbbfcb3d4fc926e5bb6ab8eea94061987c4)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FSC4D%2FScreenShot217.jpg&hash=5e4ce08eee5cc6675be90731275efa78ef2da859)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FSC4D%2FScreenShot218.jpg&hash=95e675f13baa305d170a32c5cf55241febb6f533)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FSC4D%2FScreenShot219.jpg&hash=76cee8c169f2d4e4da65a1d33b9be93b3cfcce1e)
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: jplumbley on January 22, 2008, 08:50:10 PM
Quote from: xxdita on January 22, 2008, 08:27:05 PM
Suddenly, I'm facing abandonment & my traffic network just isn't able to deal with the higher stages of CAM. Can't get anything above a stage 13 to grow, even with ample Regional Capacities, and all other caps met. Played for 20 years, and routes changed consistently.

Now.. thats what I was waiting to see.

Can you get me a pic of your Zone Map?  I am assuming SW half is R and NE is C?  So, all your sims are crossing the city in the same direction.  I have a feeling the Capacity cannot handle your population.  The grid like fashion is actually bad for this if residents and jobs arent mixed in together.  Although what is intruiging is your roads are not over capacity.  There seems to be an invisible "line" that is stopping sims from going further, I have a feeling this is where the maximum distance of the travel is.

Please take pictures of the general status of you city, such as where the abandonment is occuring.  The Commute Time Graph, Traffic Graph, Zone Map.
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: xxdita on January 22, 2008, 10:05:08 PM
It helps to go back to the same city, huh?  ::)
Yup, playing in grids. Res in the NE corner, Com in SE corner, then Ind in the entire West. But its only a Medium Tile.
More pics:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FSC4D%2FScreenShot220.jpg&hash=f5b563a69b8d7b8c8fbb8586dcd5e095eb361271)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FSC4D%2FScreenShot2212.jpg&hash=52810a2e174b2334c37a41e6c2bb96989d6cfb36)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FSC4D%2FScreenShot2222.jpg&hash=5ef65065ce3dfa2d48f2c607c696222a4f7b3ced)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FSC4D%2FScreenShot223.jpg&hash=5bea1e0e2605f0798851318084352033e07e37cd)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FSC4D%2FScreenShot213.jpg&hash=28347067e882831bebe15dea6849b75f7690bbbd)

Edit: bah, I hate imageshack...
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: SC4BOY on January 23, 2008, 09:40:21 PM
OK JP I had a chance to look over my plugins files to check the reason for the conflict in the street capacities

As you recall I said that the streets started turning around 100-200 and by 500 they were a deep, dark red on the congestion map. You mentioned that you thought streets should have a capacity of 1000.

Here are the only "capacity etc" files that I can find and the structure/order in the folders in the plugins

-FILES STILL IN PLUGINS
In NAM plugins folder
   z_JPlumbleys_Traffic_Plugin_v2.dat
In NAM zPlugins in a folder called "slopemods"
   SlopeMod_v1.dat
In zzMODS folder in a folder zHSRBeta folder
   harp.dat  and  EDIT: This should be HSRP.dat (High Speed Rail Project)
   z_HSR_over_GLR_SupportFiles.dat
-REMOVED FILES
Network Addon Mod folder subfolder zPlugins
   NetworkAddonMod_Traffic_Plugin_PerfectPathfinding_2xCapacity_10xSpeeds_10xCommute.dat
and a folder z_CAM
   NetworkAddonMod_Traffic_Plugin_BetterPathfinding_CAM_PromoteWalking.dat

If you can see why this would reset the capacities, let me know.. or if there are other things I should look at.

Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: jplumbley on January 23, 2008, 09:53:32 PM
@SC4BOY... I am not 100% sure since I do not have a copy of the HSR Mod, but if I am not mistaken that has a version of the Simulator in it because it alters the speed of the Monorail.  If this is true it conflicts and my Simulator must be loaded after the HSR files.
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: SC4BOY on January 23, 2008, 09:58:19 PM
I'm not using the HSRP in this region, so I'll just remove it for now and see how that goes..

Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: wouanagaine on January 23, 2008, 11:50:31 PM
Quote
-FILES STILL IN PLUGINS
In NAM plugins folder
   z_JPlumbleys_Traffic_Plugin_v2.dat
In NAM zPlugins in a folder called "slopemods"
   SlopeMod_v1.dat
In zzMODS folder in a folder zHSRBeta folder
   harp.dat  and
   z_HSR_over_GLR_SupportFiles.dat
so the files will load in the following order :
   z_JPlumbleys_Traffic_Plugin_v2.dat
   SlopeMod_v1.dat
   harp.dat
   z_HSR_over_GLR_SupportFiles.dat

as you can see, JPlumbley mod will load first where it should load last. make a ZZZ folder in your PLUGINS folder ( or anything else than ZZZ that will make it last when sorting by name ) and put  z_JPlumbleys_Traffic_Plugin_v2.dat in it


Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: xxdita on January 24, 2008, 12:31:16 AM
With some sensible rezoning, and added MT, I am happy to report absolutely no abandonment or delapidation, even after a huge population explosion.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FSC4D%2FScreenShot230-1.jpg&hash=bc1cad97f606cbf303c83d6587424e13d3d69f9e)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FSC4D%2FScreenShot231.jpg&hash=894acd44e26bf2f5c1f5f5c9120152c36d5d0653)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FSC4D%2FScreenShot232.jpg&hash=d880df9abb5f8fc58e8938c8bc1517697f395289)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FSC4D%2FScreenShot233.jpg&hash=acc75647d96fdf3b8c54562cd4ef64b2ecef0953)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FSC4D%2FScreenShot235.jpg&hash=a0584dbdc9b2f15a466cb5acc226a160b4de8cec)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FSC4D%2FScreenShot236.jpg&hash=132ee60017aa51183f6c526145a45a04ae5a3ef3)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FSC4D%2FScreenShot239.jpg&hash=fdfad50e2a71b1736cec3cb4e0a28adbcd88ceb0)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FSC4D%2FScreenShot238.jpg&hash=bdceb7300b513a5eae7ae4835150c0c30a5a26fe)

And most impressive, I think, is how much growth this enables, when playing with a little sense.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FSC4D%2FScreenShot237.jpg&hash=2a5bf08eacf9ff1cf123dd3e701c933335bbcbb3)

Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: SC4BOY on January 24, 2008, 09:16:07 AM
Quote from: wouanagaine on January 23, 2008, 11:50:31 PM
so the files will load in the following order :
   z_JPlumbleys_Traffic_Plugin_v2.dat
   SlopeMod_v1.dat
   harp.dat
   z_HSR_over_GLR_SupportFiles.dat

as you can see, JPlumbley mod will load first where it should load last. make a ZZZ folder in your PLUGINS folder ( or anything else than ZZZ that will make it last when sorting by name ) and put  z_JPlumbleys_Traffic_Plugin_v2.dat in it

Sounds like it really should go in the old z-CAM folder then.. ;)  (for those using CAM)
Thanks for your note.. I'll see to it that happens.

Edit: Okies.  worked fine.. NOW streets have 1000 capacity.. ;) I assume NOW my capacities for the HSR is messed up. How to I get the HSR to load properly AND have the JP stuff work as well?  Is it possible to make a plugin that has "nuls" entered in certain parts? For example the HSR only affects the monorail network which it replaces.. could the dat be written such that it only overwrote the monorail and left all others just as they were set before this file?
In this way this order thing would be less risky.
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: SC4BOY on February 02, 2008, 12:18:59 PM
Just a note.. The instructions for the new NAM traffic plugins are not correct .. they say to remove, "just remove the files".. clearly this will not take the person back to his previous condition.
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: xxdita on February 02, 2008, 03:20:07 PM
You would have to put whatever traffic plugin you were using before back in to your Plugins folder. If you used Cleanitol to remove them, the files have been safely stored in your Docs/SimCity 4/BSC_Cleanitol folder, in a subfolder named by the date of your backup.
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: SC4BOY on February 02, 2008, 03:58:17 PM
Of course I understand this.. I'm just pointing out that the installer/documentation used a "template" and was not updated to reflect the actual install/uninstall.. ;)
Title: Re: TESTERS *Needed* - NAM Traffic Simulator
Post by: jplumbley on May 09, 2008, 08:52:46 AM
Locked - Inactive...