Started by jplumbley, January 14, 2008, 04:57:35 PM
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QuoteThe NEW Traffic PluginsSimulator "A" written by JPlumbleySimulator "B" written by MottWhat are NAM_Traffic_Plugins intended to do?Well, there are two Central "cores" named A and B for lack of a better identifier. These two Central Cores have both been mathematically designed to re-balance the structure of the Simulators. With new information discovered by Mott from investigations he preformed the previous Simulators have been found to be harmful to the game in some cases. Not only were the old NAM Simulators found to be flawed, but also the Vanilla Simulator from MAXIS was found to have flaws in it aswell. These two Cores have been designed to limit and/or remove these flaws, as well as expand on ideas MAXIS had that just simply were not implemented or not implemented properly.What is the Difference between Simulator "A" and Simulator "B"?These Simulators have been designed to do two different things. Simulator "A" has been designed by JPlumbley to extend the original travel distances set by the MAXIS Simulators. For example in the original game the MAXIS Simulator allows the Sims to walk upto 7 tiles, but with Simulator "A" the Sims will walk upto 43 tiles to get to work. This change in travel distance is due to the calculations used to allow Car Traffic to travel one full distance of a large city tile (512 tiles) on Avenues. Simulator "B" has been designed by Mott to work with the original travel distances set by the MAXIS Simulator. For example in the original game the MAXIS Simulator allows the Sims to walk upto 7 tiles, therefore in Simulator "B" the Sims will walk upto 7 tiles. Simulator "B" has also been re-calculated to be more balanced and provide better pathfinding overall.Other modifications to both Simulators include changes to the follow properties with minor variation:Congestion to Accident Probabiltiy - Revamped the probability curve.Congestion vs Speed - Made use of this, not used to full potential by MAXIS. Sims will now look for better routes if the network is over congested.Trip Length to Minutes Display Multiplier - Used in calculations for time displays on Commute Time Graph.What do the different difficulties mean?The only difference between the different difficulties is the Capacity of the networks. All have been altered from the original MAXIS Simulator. Road, OneWay Road and Avenue have all been equalized in speed and capacity in preparation for the Network Widening Mod. The following is a list of the Network Capacities for each difficulty:Easy DifficultyStreet: 2250Road / OWR / Avenue: 5600Highway / El-Highway: 10800Rural Highway: 10800Subway / El-Rail / GLR: 13500Monorail: 13500Rail: 13500Medium DifficultyStreet: 1500Road / OWR / Avenue: 3750Highway / El-Highway: 7200Rural Highway: 7200Subway / El-Rail / GLR: 9000Monorail: 9000Rail: 9000Hard DifficultyStreet: 1000Road / OWR / Avenue: 2500Highway / El-Highway: 4800Rural Highway: 4800Subway / El-Rail / GLR: 6000Monorail: 6000Rail: 6000What effect will the different difficulties have on my play style?The Simulators are designed to help your game calculate proper pathfinding situations for your Sims to find thier way to work. Now, the Network Capacities have an almost equally important role in the way the Simulator works as the Maximum Commute Time and the Speed. Some people will say that Capacity isnt important and can be set to anything. Well this is only a half truth, while Capacity "can" be set to any setting it is not wise to set the Capacities too high. If the Capacities are too high the Sims will never look for another route beyond the shortest path because your networks will never become congested. If the networks are never congested no speed will be lost and Sims will only take the shortest physcal route. Now, if the Capacity settings are set appropriately the pathfinding will act more realistic. In Real Life roads become over crowded and then people look for other routes or new roads are built. Having lower capacities will force you to design your networks more dynamically, plan ahead and provide more of a challenge. But, if the Capacities are set too low, it will make the game too hard from a transit standpoint and prevent large cities. If you have CAM, and a network capacity is set too low, one building may cause over congestion on any network if you are at some of the higher stage levels.It is advisable that you choose your difficulty based on the size of the city you are planning to build or what stage you are in building your city. Some general findings during testing find that for existing cities the Difficulties best preform at:Hard Difficulty for cities upto 250,000 population.Medium Difficulty for cities 200,000 population to 1,000,000 populationEasy Difficulty for cities 750,000 population and greater.Of course there are for existing city sizes. If you are starting a city from scratch, it is advisable to start on Hard Difficulty because it will allow you to build a city with a very well optimized traffic system. If the city becomes too large your Simulator may benefit you moving upto Medium Difficulty. But if you design your network from the begining to be optimized for Hard Difficulty, you may never need to get to Easy Difficulty.What is the NAM_Traffic_Data_View Mod?This is a modification to the Congestion Data View. The original Congestion Data View is very skewed, what most people may not realize is that the Congestion Data View doesnt report Congestion in the way one would expect. In fact, you will not notice the on the Congestion map that your networks do not start becoming yellow with congestion until they reach about 175% to 200% and dont actually reach red until they are over 300% capacity. This is not very accurate a portraying when your networks start suffering consequences from over congestion. Your networks will still end up having a speed reduction when the network becomes over 100% capacity, but you will never notice it until the network is more congested and begining to become yellow.Due to this inconsistancy, the Congestion Data View has been edited to show signs of over congestion sooner rather than later. This will not only help you avoid the consequences of Congestion and give you a more accurate reading into when the network starts to suffer the consequences.
Quote from: jplumbley on January 19, 2008, 04:14:30 PMI will start off by addressing the Commute Time dropping, though your Congestion has grown. I think this has to do with the Simulator recalculating alot of your paths. The old Simulator is not very optimal, in fact it likes to use the same route over and over, especially when capacity allows it. If the simulator starts using more routes as it did, it will allow for the Commute time to drop.
QuoteNow, about your congestion "issue". The capacity is set much lower than 10x capacity (apparently what you were using). Due to this you have built your city to be optimized to this capacity setting, which would actually remove some of the effectiveness of the Simulator such as the simulator spreading out the traffic amoungst all possible routes. Another thing that seems to add to your congestion issue is first off you said you are using Streets, these are only set at 1000 capacity and not 5000
Quote(I think thats what the 10x Capacity was set at). The streets are in a fairly high density area with no "major route", due to this you are going to become more and more congested the further you build away from the bottleneck you have created. Not only have you used the under capacity streets in high density zoning, you have also not used mass transit. Rails, subways, monorails etc all have higher capacities, in the test file set at 7500. If you had any of these in your system, your congestion problems would be virtually nulified becuase it gets Sims off the roads.
QuoteIn real life, transit systems are built as a dynamic system where you cannot allow only one type of transportation. My city has approximately 170k inhabitants. We have one highway, busses and one main rail line, and we are widely considered a bedroom community (everyone commutes out of town). At rush hour traffic in our city is almost a standstill because we havent put nearly enough money into our bus system as we should have and our rail system, well, that is a different story all together. Approximately 60 to 70% of our "Sims" drive to work and that accounts for much of the congestion. So, I feel that your test accurately portrays a very real situation.Just wait till I release my mod on the Congestion Data View, that will show you the Actual Congestion in your cities and not the skewed MAXIS Congestion Data View.
Quote from: SC4BOY on January 19, 2008, 11:04:27 PMYou can't tell from those pics but there are only 2 ways into the CBD.. they have to use GLR and the avenue/ highway/ rail which are difficult to see there. Each "spoke" has GLR running into the CBD and the "transport hub" in the center of the city. There also is bus service, but only inside each suburb and the CBD.. they do not have easy access between. This is a purposeful experiment on my part to both prevent commute loops and to force inter-tile traffic to go through the CBD. I guess the bottom line that I'm pointing out is that there is mass transit, but almost all of it is 5x saturated in those pics above.. I should have posted my transport breakdown. I'll do that later.. sorry didn't think of it.
Quote from: jplumbley on January 19, 2008, 11:44:40 PMI have just double checked the Capacity of Street and it is 1000 in the test file I sent to everyone.
QuoteAbout the way your system is setup. This is what I can see from the pictures and if what I say is wrong then, please correct me.- From what it looks like to me you have GLR in Avenue as one of your main connections to your CBD. The "two" networks cannot be considered separate entities in the reference to Capacity. Unfortunately, the game cannot determine that there are 2 separate networks on one of these tiles. Therefore, it cannot determine that there would be 2 separate Capacities. It does however take the properties of the network it was based off of, in this case Avenue.
QuoteSo, the capacity of the tile is that equal to an Avenue (if my understanding of the puzzle pieces is correct, and I could very well be wrong about what the capacity is). But whether the capacity is set different from the normal Avenue, the effects of each traffic type still stack when determining Congestion. You would be allowed X number of sims in this tile whether they be Cars or Trams. This will cause a bottleneck, but if you notice this is not where your problem currently resides.
QuoteYour problem is currently the streets leading upto this area, Sims must travel upto and beyond 6 or 7 or 8 blocks in some cases to reach the Avenue. When you have medium to high density buildings along the entire route, you are looking at approximately 600 people per block (minimum) the closer you get to the avenue the more stacking effect you will have from the Sims further away. You will easily have 4,000 Sims after 7 or 8 blocks of travelling. Especially in a grid system that is going to the same bottleneck it forces Sims into a limited number of choices.
QuoteThe MAXIS Congestion Data View also will only show red at approximately 400% Capacity, Yellow at approximately 200% capacity. Even though the traffic still starts having negative effects at anything greater than 100% Capacity. So, effectively, your Streets closest to the Avenue are probably sitting around 350% or 3500 Sims on average.
Quote- I could be mistaken about this but it seems as though your Rail and Highways only service the outlying areas, meaning none of the traffic within the city limits are carried by this, or at most very little of it is carried. The Traffic Data View is what leads me to this conclusion since the only major traffic along the highways is coming into the city and there are no major interchanges until you reach downtown.
QuoteThis is just the things that I think are causing your problems from where I am standing.
Quote from: Starmanw402007 on January 20, 2008, 07:40:06 AMI'm not sure why I'm not be allowed to load photobucket to upload my newest photos of Steven's Point traffic Simulator test. But for the past week I've been unsuccessfull at getting that website to load fast. I've been wanting to upload these photos now. Can someone tell me what's up? If Photobucket is down or just annoyingly slow? And btw, this is my 200th post.
QuoteCongestion to Accident Probabiltiy - Revamped the probability curve.Congestion vs Speed - Made use of this, not used to full potential by MAXIS. Sims will now look for better routes if the network is over congested.Trip Length to Minutes Display Multiplier - Used in calculations for time displays on Commute Time Graph.
Quote from: Palpatine001 on January 20, 2008, 09:07:36 PMFirst SolariaFirst quick shake down test.All cities minus the oldest three (Imperial Command Centre, Rangitoto Town and Te Puke) across all tile sizes and development classes have seen a remarkable improvement in transit conditions, I have noticed congestion decreasing a little bit as better commute times are found and the transit options available (I use all in an intergrated interlink system) being more efficiently used. Traffic volumes on the highways are up for commuters going that longer distance, thus I am theorising my highways where available are being better utilised than they were pre test. All in all, better utilisation of the highways as they were designed to do when I placed them, and more efficient useage of the interlinked mass transit system has caused a noticable increase in demand again in RCI although my higher capacity stations are filling to capacity faster than pre test. No matter as the later built cities are designed to take on higher capacity stations and extensions to transit lines. I have noticed jplumbly has looking at and this is most likely the reason for the more efficient commuting and a slight reduction in commute times (around 10% across all cities)In my oldest three cities the highways maxed out real fast as well as the rail network in the respective tile causing some what of a nightmare to try and correct my end. However with these tiles having being originally developed pre Rush Hour then being constantly modified over the years, coupled with these 3 first cities of Solaria hold 50% of the region's population I am not surprised traffic congestion and volumes have skyrocketed. I believe this is due to the test file giving a more accurate reflection of the mass amount of traffic moving between the 3 cities (IPC being the largest and oldest city in Solaria at 900k and the all powerful RCI hub, Rangitoto Town at 400,000 in a medium tile, just as old as IPC and a Residential Hub, with Te Puke being an industrial hub). Further more indepth testing has to be done on these older cities and will be given in my next report at the end of the week.A thing I noticed was all commute times in the commute chart going up by x10, a bug maybe as all buildings are reporting short and medium commute times as before the tests started? Ill get a pic of it for the next report.Next report with graph samples out Friday NZT
Quote from: SC4BOY on January 21, 2008, 06:55:44 AMJust a followon note about the simulator. The report I submitted covered a range of about 4 months where it seemed to "level out". I have found that over a period of about 5 years, I believe the "model" continues to level and smooth traffic even further.. This is good as it continues to level traffic over the entire grid.. even rather complex moves. JP- is there a "boarding penalty" for all transit switches? I read that R$$$ sims are assessed 40 min "boarding penalty" for mass transit and was wondering if the act of boarding or switching transit modes is always assessed a penalty?
Quote from: SC4BOY on January 21, 2008, 07:56:58 AMhmmm.. maybe I should have used the word "transfer" rather than switch... I understand and agree about the "transit switch" issue.. What I am referring to (and I don't have TRUE VERIFIED INFO that it is right) is that specifically R$$$ sims get a 40 min (how they decided it was "40 minutes" given the vagaries of the specific meaning of SC4 variables and its arbitrary units, I don't know) added to their commute time when they board mass transit (I don't know if that is the FIRST BOARDING only or for every transfer thereafter). The "transit switch penalty" you refer to is not wealth dependent is it?
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