(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2FCityMania%2FLogoRenders%2FCITYMANIA_TOPTHREAD.png&hash=e2ac40d570d4e84c50dea08e743c30e80d5ed678)
Yes, we take a shot! Let's do this!
Whaaaat? A new city building game?!Where does this come from?Yes, but this project can take a few months before the first playable version rolls out.. please be patient, the latest updates will be in this topic ;). The main reason for this game is that even while a lot of people in the Simcity community are working very hard to make Simcity more realistic, more fun to play.. we are reaching the boundaries of the possibilities of extending that game.
With much better computer performance these days, with many many more of you guys in the community, we should be able to create a open source clone of Simcity. Take all the good things out of that game and try to add new features. With our own source code, we should be able to expand CityMania forever and ever..
Communities are getting really powerful these days, let's use our own knowledge and stop back-engineering a 2003 dated (old) Simcity game, or waiting for new ones. That's what i (Nique) thought. Well, this was my main motivation to start this project and i am happy to see more people are getting interested! If you can contribute in any way (modeling 3d, textures etc), let us know.
Sources and Wiki & HelpHomepage: (nothing to see yet)http://www.citymania.info (http://www.citymania.info)Sources from GitHubhttp://github.com/Nique/CityMania/and
http://github.com/croxis/CityManiaWiki pages also on GitHub (help correcting (dominique@familiedegraaff.nl))http://wiki.github.com/Nique/CityMania/transpose-from-old-wikiTeamIn no particular order
| Nique (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=8279) | Project starter
c# coding, working on everything i guess ;). Also be able to do 2d Graphics and base textures |
| |
| tomkeus (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=25988) | Physicist
Simulator coding |
| |
| croxis (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=35119) | Python Guru
Server/Network Dude |
| |
| JoeST (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=2431) |
|
| Townscape (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=16148) | 2d Graphic Artist
|
Like make our own SimCity?
Nice idea but isnt it illegal? :P
Quote from: LE0 on February 03, 2009, 11:42:25 AM
Like make our own SimCity?
Nice idea but isnt it illegal? :P
No, of course not. We name it
Open Simcity.. this is not a trademarked name. And we do not use any of the 'official content' of Simcity 4. We are inspired by Simcity 4. But that's legal ()stsfd()
There was an attempt (or there is atm, but they don't make it very clear whats going on) at Simtropolis, to make our own SimCity, but it doesn't get very far.
I think it would be better if we could get the developers back, and hopefully allow a select few who know what they're doing to make modifcations to the EXE. How long has it been since someone has written to them?
Jonathan
Well, i don't know, but if you have to code all the controllers yourself (for example, the input controll) yes it will take very long, but the XNA framework has done all of that. Since i have seen and played with that, i am convinced that it will be possible to make such a game
Quote from: Nique on February 03, 2009, 11:54:13 AM
Well, i don't know, but if you have to code all the controllers yourself (for example, the input controll) yes it will take very long, but the XNA framework has done all of that. Since i have seen and played with that, i am convinced that it will be possible to make such a game
You have a link in your sig about a possible SC4 Sequel.
What about that one?
They're satisfied by the icons they have, they talk Spanish.. etc.
I want English, english game, english forum, english site so everybody can understand. The one in my sig is spanish. They are happy with what they have now. And i do not agree with that.
Besides, nobody replied on that topic in days..
I know very little about what you're doing, but its a nice idea.
We're going to have to get the entire SC4 community together if this is going to even get off the ground. It might also be worth a shot to contact dirk as well as EA/Maxis just to let them know.
Warrior, are you referring to "Simtropolis 1000 (http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=367&threadid=89591&enterthread=y): Lets take a serious look at developing our own game from the ground up"? That thread has slowed recently, but it might be a good place to recruit some members.
I'll be watching this thread and see what develops. Just keep in mind the legal and copyright issues and make sure you don't attempt to infringe upon them.
Best,
-Haljackey
Yes I think there was another thread that got a bit further but I'm not sure,
I think we should make another attempt at contacting Maxis and asking them to resume communication to the community.
Jonathan
All right, if it wasn't that thread, perhaps it was this one? (http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=82462&highlight_key=y&keyword1=source%20code) Nevertheless, both of the threads I linked would be an excellent place to search.
I do remember Will Wright announcing that he plans to do one last thing before he retires. Perhaps a new Simcity? Anything's possible, but I doubt it. If you can contact dirk he could provide you with some information regarding this issue as he has had communications with Maxis.
Anyways, I wish you luck with the project and look forward to any developments!
Best,
-Haljackey
I was thinking of this thread:
http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=367&threadid=99645&enterthread=y
It seems to be the most active thread?
Jonathan
I'll absolutely try stay legal. Never will have intention to violate any rule. As far as i know is making a new Simcity game, naming it 'open simcity' and let's say we are inspired by the simcity series is not a violation of any law / rule. :)
I will of course look at these topics you guys gave me! The more information the better.
I can tell you this at this right moment that i can not do this alone. So people with skills let's put our heads together.
Quote from: Warrior on February 03, 2009, 12:36:59 PM
Yes I think there was another thread that got a bit further but I'm not sure,
I think we should make another attempt at contacting Maxis and asking them to resume communication to the community.
Jonathan
How? Who can we contact. Nobody responds on the official site. And posting on the EA support forums will not help as it's all mass.. I know Dirk is the owner of Simtropolis, but does he have contact with the team? I don't think the team still exists
For people who 'want' to help, and have a good feeling with computers etc.. please take a look at this tutorial site
http://www.riemers.net/eng/Tutorials/XNA/Csharp/Series1/Starting_a_project.php
It's a good quick 'do and learn' tutorial that explains alot about the basics. Just fallow their instructions. You will learn the fast by just doing it.
I asked one of the people at ea.support about contacting maxis and this was the reply:
QuoteOn the back of any game box you will find the copyright information along with the address for our Corporate office where the Sims team (Maxis) is located. If you compile suggestions, recommendations and concerns from yourself and other users they could be sent to that office addressed to that development team.
I couldn't find my game box so I couldn't find the address, but looking on my SCS and Sims boxes I didn't see any addresses.
Jonathan
Quote from: Warrior on February 03, 2009, 01:35:38 PM
I asked one of the people at ea.support about contacting maxis and this was the reply:I couldn't find my game box so I couldn't find the address, but looking on my SCS and Sims boxes I didn't see any addresses.
Jonathan
That's what i meant.. they send you from door to door..
I'll look on mine:
Electronic Arts Nederland B.V.
Postbus 75756
1118 ZX Schiphol-Triport
Well this isn't the original address of the SC4 team..
I found this on the web:
209 Redwood Shores Pkwy.
Redwood City, CA 94065
United States
Phone: 650-628-1500
Fax: 650-628-1422
It's getting quite off topic though, maybe another thread should be opened in the right forum.
Jonathan
How about Devotion City, or Simulated Cityscape? I just don't know if they won't pull something were they go we don't want you using that title. Who knows, EA might not own it, but the problem is does the SimCity title belong to Will still?
Well..
Currency: Devo's
Inhabitants: Inhabitants
People: People
We don't really necessary need the 'sim' idea.
The time method used in Simcity 4 is very smart. No real dates,
Just year 1,2,3,4 etc (but of course with month's days and hours)
This will make the game timeless ;)
Well, the mouse cursor has been written ;D
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2Fsimcity%25204%2Fbat%2Fth_2009-02-04_094950.jpg&hash=7c7ade3030b88924285ccfe18a52061780d2a3f0) (http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/Ne0que/simcity%204/bat/?action=view¤t=2009-02-04_094950.jpg)
And a temporary logo has been made
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2Fsimcity%25204%2Fbat%2F2009-02-04_094239.jpg&hash=c87bbc418a5fcec607ebf6f1df6e94e35c046d00)
So the goal is to get permission be able to edit sc4 or make a whole new game? ;)
Id be fine even if EA let us make changes to the game :)
nice idea! I would use it! scs is pathetic(except for the graphics). Is the idea to create a modern sc4 with 3d(or better) graphics and improved
(more precise) gameplay?
Well, i would like to keep the camera zooms, but now you'll be able to rotate free, and smooth. And a mode to release the camera (you) so you can go anywhere, but my first goal is to get zooms
It is a better idea to start from the scratch as we tried so many times to contact EA.. no normal answers are being given..
We are, of course greatly inspired by Simcity 4
Multi Language using XML configurations :)
English
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2Fsimcity%25204%2Fbat%2F2009-02-05_010503.jpg&hash=2553975ce128e20e351eba85483b1af642c2499a)
Dutch
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2Fsimcity%25204%2Fbat%2F2009-02-05_010540.jpg&hash=a12a979429e0be09c2dde11c46b2a9702409abef)
Theres a thread sc4 community related > Coummunications to EA in the forum. Noones posted in it yet, did you try that? ;)
That site is abandoned for years... do you really think devs are still looking there?
Besides all that, i do not want to wait on my lazy ass for EA. All the time we are battling the current game to put custom content in, we can use to start a new. Of course, it is a huge project, but we better get started then.. that's why i just start.. with or without someone..
Otherwise it will never happen
My guess is, folks, that EA will have a problem with any general use out in public- even for an open source project- of the SimCity name. It'd probably be best to look for an alternative. That's just the lawyer in me talking.
There's a bigger issue, though. Despite all the extraordinarily brilliant folks in this community (present company on this thread included), the several efforts to create a community developed city builder game have done nothing but fritter away huge amounts of time and energy. Game development companies have departments of pretty well-compensated folks working on a more or less dedicated basis, sometimes for upwards of a year, on software like what is being described. The only distributed programming-originated game software coding I'm aware of that has been widely successful is NetHack [linkie] (http://www.nethack.org/), and that goes back well over ten years.
I know intentions are good here, and I wish things could be different. But they're just not.
David
So, let's stay optimistic,
I'm just starting. Most of the work is still filling the game with 'content' And isn't that what we are doing already here? Custom content?
Programming the game will take a while, but not 'that' long as we do not have to 'create' maps and stuff, we do not have to put it in the field by our self.. thats the job of the gamer. Maps can be created using height maps.. and here again, the only thing we have to code are the rules and limits for those maps have. The rest will be automatic. Thats our benefit with this genre of games. We have to build an engine, we have to build rules for path's of cars, rules of the world, but we do not have to create the 'so called' levels and a story line.. those parts of a game take out the most of the time. Monte Cristo did give herself a hard job by deciding to put GEMS in the game. Because GEMS is kinda 'storyline' programming. More rules for every aspect of a company.. that's why the game isn't released yet.
We are here with thousands and with 10 C# programmers, and 500 content creators .. we CAN make it.. but the thing is.. believe.. thats the way.. If you do not believe in creating things, you wont create anything!.. so.. i believe that this is possible. It's a matter of faith.
FPS Counter programmed
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2Fsimcity%25204%2Fbat%2F2009-02-05_053934.jpg&hash=f62f06e7f5f1b602e46f6ed662e5cb1efd3eb6ef)
Added world date (speed is now 10x). This flash is a loop so it starts over over and over again.. (thats why the date drops back)
The mouse cursor looks that weird because i haven't set the right width & height of that cursor ;P
The reason why you see lower than 60 FPS is that the game does not need to draw more than 60 fps as you wouldn't notice it anyway ;D
I can turn a 'real' fps counter on (you also in the future but doing something like this in the cheat window: /show fps -real When i set the real counter on it's something around 6300 frames per second :D..
Birth of OSC in motion ;D
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/343/birthlb0.swf
this is quite interesting..... opensource? awesome
joe
Excellent work, that reminds me to action script, I know a bit of it, but not for do such things ;D
I've implanted the speedSwitch mode. Now you can switch between 3 speeds (Turtle, Rhino, Cheetah) (of course including shortcuts
CTRL+1 Turtle speed
CTRL+2 Rhino speed
CTRL+2 Cheetah speed
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2Fsimcity%25204%2Fbat%2F2009-02-05_151858.jpg&hash=390a443ca81b1d7524f29b742404d4c97c9d32cf)
I want to make the game look and feel as close to SC4 as possible. But of course i'll try to make a 3d engine without being stuck at heights. Creating a world, with lightning similar to SC4 and what about 'smooth' zoom. I think this can help custom batters a lot!
Quote from: Warrior on February 03, 2009, 01:35:38 PM
I asked one of the people at ea.support about contacting maxis and this was the reply:I couldn't find my game box so I couldn't find the address, but looking on my SCS and Sims boxes I didn't see any addresses.
Jonathan
wwright@maxis.com maybe? ;)
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.04/wright.html all the way down at the bottem.
:), I searched the email in google and other sites came up with it, so I guess its worth a try?
Nique, I tryed that sight you linked to, and I actually understood it, well the 1st and 2nd chapter then it got hard :)
Please don't forget your RHW textures though :)
Jonathan
We have 'terrain' ;D
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2Fsimcity%25204%2Fbat%2F2009-02-06_091020.jpg&hash=1d92cb0e365ef5576ae5863ba97c0cf0a7a06c6e)
TO
&idea :P :D
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2Fsimcity%25204%2Fbat%2F2009-02-06_093434.jpg&hash=29fd666bb523562c6ee62a1bd8ff099fec2b5c29)
Please fix the jagged edge ie always split a quad along its shortest diagonal
Quote from: wouanagaine on February 06, 2009, 01:32:24 AM
Please fix the jagged edge ie always split a quad along its shortest diagonal
??
What do you mean? It's Wire-framed
First test file (executable inside ZIP)
megaupload.com/nl/?d=XT7UJRU0http://www.megaupload.com/nl/?d=5KFLAK03
Move Left: A
Move Right: D
Move Forward: W
Move Backward: S
Rotate using mouse: MiddleMouse + Steering around
Show/Hide Frames per Second: F7
(you need the latest .net (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=333325fd-ae52-4e35-b531-508d977d32a6&DisplayLang=en))
(you need to have DirectX updated)
Nique I downloaded your zip but it kept telling me OpenSimCity has stopped responding.
Jonathan
I meant you should not split a quad along the same diagonal everytime.
ie
+---+
| /|
| / |
|/ |
+---+
or
+---+
|\ |
| \ |
| \|
+---+
you'll have to choose the shortest one in 3D for each quad
This will prevent the jagged edge problem we all have in SC4
You need
Latest .net Framework (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=333325fd-ae52-4e35-b531-508d977d32a6&DisplayLang=en)Wait a minute i 'll respond in a few minutes to you WouanagaineWell, 3d = 3 points (always triangles).. let me look at the problem.. i 'm just a beginner with programming.
QuoteGraphics hardware can generally only render triangles, lines and points, so yes, at some point, data is converted to triangles. Typically, before the data hits vertex buffers. (In DX10 and DX11, there are ways to push this further down the pipeline, but in the end, you get triangles on the screen).
I'll upload a installer version.. just test it. .and remove it after that (it will automaticly install .NET if it's not present (can take a while)).
http://www.megaupload.com/nl/?d=5KFLAK03
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/335/video20090206115051ou0.swf
I believe there is a solution to that triangle thing..
You mean this?
| -
| \
|
| -
| /
|
| -
| \
|
| -
| /
|
| -
| \
|
| - |
| / |
|
| -
| /
| -
|
| -
| \
| -
|
| -
| /
| -
|
| -
| \
| -
|
| -
| \
| -
|
| - |
| / |
| - |
|
thats pretty awesome :o
Joe
because i dont understand everything here, its maybe a stupid question, but would this be posible in game or not?
if that so that would be :thumbsup:
What, free looking?
Of course :)
You will play in the so called 'SC4' camera(s) mode, but if you want to look around and stuff like that, yes... it will be posible.. just a matter of clicking on the 'free camera' button ()stsfd()
can I just ask, how are you storing map-data?
Looks promising.
For some inspiration, a game what already has been released and uses the same type of engine:
http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=40825 (http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=40825)
Quote from: Nique on February 06, 2009, 03:37:45 AM
What, free looking?
Of course :)
You will play in the so called 'SC4' camera(s) mode, but if you want to look around and stuff like that, yes... it will be posible.. just a matter of clicking on the 'free camera' button ()stsfd()
Just out of curiosity, how are going to manage the buildings? SC4 fixes the camera as buildings are just images on a box generated by Max. If you were to take these 3D then you would get some weird shapes. (try it in the Reader)
If you run with fully 3d models they won't be able to be as detailed as they are currently due to rendering limitations on poly counts.
Quote from: Diggis on February 06, 2009, 04:09:36 AM
Just out of curiosity, how are going to manage the buildings? SC4 fixes the camera as buildings are just images on a box generated by Max. If you were to take these 3D then you would get some weird shapes. (try it in the Reader)
If you run with fully 3d models they won't be able to be as detailed as they are currently due to rendering limitations on poly counts.
Simcity 4 was finished in 2002...
Computers have been improved from 800mhz (rush hour) to 4ghz.. (computers are 5 times faster).. and not only 'cpu'.. also the GPU.. (graphics card). Beside all this.. many people have 'multiple' processors.. for instance, i have a quad core .. I don't think we have to worry about graphics / peformance yet.
The first thing to do is writing simular functions as in SC4.. (for instance, the economic system.. but also new: climate)
(imagine the detail @ GTA4)..
Maybe we need to move to some other engine.. I was thinking about using Visual3D (http://www.visual3d.net/)?
Example:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.visual3d.net%2Fwebmedia%2Fgalleries%2Fscreenshots%2Fbeta2%2FBeta%25202_0%2520Demos%2Fslides%2Fisle_close_1.jpg&hash=d07be4a0504eaea2fcecf8181a34f5201f26cad6)
I do not know everything yet.. i'll just go.. and see where it ends. With my actions, i hope others to inspire to join.. i cant build this on my own ..
Quotecan I just ask, how are you storing map-data?
Not yet, i'm just importing a height bitmap. But of course, this should be like the same as in SC4 in the future. (render regions).
Seasons:
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/3894/video20090206135036yh4.swf
Again split your quad using the correct diagonal it will look way better
imagine you have a flat land with a square mesa
x- x-x-x-x- x
| | | | | |
x-X-X-X-X-x
| | | | | |
x-X-X-X-X-x
| | | | | |
x- x-x-x-x- x
( x is lower than X )
then you'll need
x- x-x-x-x- x
|/ |\|\ |\ |\|
x-X-X-X-X- x
|\ |\| \| \|\|
x-X-X-X-X-x
| \| \|\|\| /|
x- x-x-x-x- x
hope my artistical talent is showing up
Quote from: wouanagaine on February 06, 2009, 05:18:57 AM
Again split your quad using the correct diagonal it will look way better
imagine you have a flat land with a square mesa
x- x-x-x-x- x
| | | | | |
x-X-X-X-X-x
| | | | | |
x-X-X-X-X-x
| | | | | |
x- x-x-x-x- x
( x is lower than X )
then you'll need
x- x-x-x-x- x
|/ |\|\ |\ |\|
x-X-X-X-X- x
|\ |\| \| \|\|
x-X-X-X-X-x
| \| \|\|\| /|
x- x-x-x-x- x
hope my artistical talent is showing up
This is not very easy to make.. i will search how to make..
I understand what you mean.
but i need to figure out how to calculate the shortest piece of that tile
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2Fsimcity%25204%2Fbat%2Fjagged.gif&hash=bb123d1407c04c2cc0504c818a60ef036100c634)
Quote
but i need to figure out how to calculate the shortest piece of that tile
v0 --- v1
| |
| |
v2----v3
if ( v0-v3 ).SquaredLength() > (v2-v1 ).SquaredLength()
split along v2v1
else
split along v0-v3
From what I get in your pic if the light green is the one choosen, it looks ok
Yes, but the problem is, that the map is being load & created before the heights come in. So i can not calculate it (yet).. i need to find a way to set up the indices including the height data.
you need to create multiple index buffer and multiple vertex buffer, because you'll be able to do early frustum culling and send much less data to the GPU. And lot of old GPU cards won't perform very well with a big vertex buffer. A usual way is to split the map into 33x33 chunks ( edges are shared between chunks ). Then once you created your vertex buffer for one chunk, create your index buffer using the correct diagonal
Ehh.. ok. This is hard.
Uhm, this is my Draw Method
Is there a way you can take a look at it? Because i do not understand what you mean.
private void DrawTerrain(Matrix currentViewMatrix)
{
effect.CurrentTechnique = effect.Techniques["Colored"];
Matrix worldMatrix = Matrix.Identity;
effect.Parameters["xWorld"].SetValue(worldMatrix);
effect.Parameters["xView"].SetValue(currentViewMatrix);
effect.Parameters["xProjection"].SetValue(projectionMatrix);
effect.Parameters["xEnableLighting"].SetValue(true);
effect.Parameters["xAmbient"].SetValue(0.4f);
effect.Parameters["xLightDirection"].SetValue(new Vector3(-0.5f, -1, -0.5f));
effect.Begin();
foreach (EffectPass pass in effect.CurrentTechnique.Passes)
{
pass.Begin();
device.Vertices[0].SetSource(terrainVertexBuffer, 0, VertexPositionNormalColored.SizeInBytes);
device.Indices = terrainIndexBuffer;
device.VertexDeclaration = terrainVertexDeclaration;
int noVertices = terrainVertexBuffer.SizeInBytes / VertexPositionNormalColored.SizeInBytes;
int noTriangles = terrainIndexBuffer.SizeInBytes / sizeof(int) / 3;
device.DrawIndexedPrimitives(PrimitiveType.TriangleList, 0, 0, noVertices, 0, noTriangles);
pass.End();
}
effect.End();
}
I think you'll need the whole document but okay
it looks good for rendering but it is not about rendering, but about setting up your vertex buffers and indexbuffers
but you have only one terrainVertexBuffer and one terrainIndexBuffer for the whole map
so if your map is 257x257, create 8x8 VertexBuffer ( each contains 33x33 vertices ) and 8x8 IndexBuffer ( each contains 32*32*2*3 indices - 32 by 32 quad, *2 for triangle, * 3 because you're using a TriangleList )
fill each vertexbuffer with the corresponding height values ( first vertex of chunk 0,0 is the pixel 0,0 f, first vertex of chunk 1,0 is pixel 32,0 ) etc..
then fill the corresponding indexbuffer to accomodate the diagonal ( you have all the data at that time to choose the correct one )
for after that your code will be
effect.Begin()
for each pass:
pass.Begin()
for each vertexbuffer,indexbuffer pair:
device.Vertices[0].SetSource(vertexBuffer, 0, VertexPositionNormalColored.SizeInBytes);
device.Indices = indexBuffer;
device.VertexDeclaration = terrainVertexDeclaration;
// you definitly need to store that instead of computed it
// int noVertices = terrainVertexBuffer.SizeInBytes / VertexPositionNormalColored.SizeInBytes;
// but as we use a fixed size chunk, we know it already
noVertices = 33*33;
// int noTriangles = terrainIndexBuffer.SizeInBytes / sizeof(int) / 3;
// idem, we know it already
noTriangles= 32*32*2;
// try to use a triangleStrip to speed up rendering but that need more work on the indexbuffer
device.DrawIndexedPrimitives(PrimitiveType.TriangleList, 0, 0, noVertices, 0, noTriangles);
pass.End();
}
effect.End();
}
Then when the need arise ( ie to speed FPS ), you'll just have to do frustum culling for each vertexbuffer ( by storing its boundingbox and test if the bounding box is in the frustum )and really do the rendering if the boundingbox is visible
You can also put the vertexbuffer/indexbuffer and its bounding box in a quadtree to gain more FPS
You can also add LOD ( level of details ) into the indexbuffer to draw less triangles ( ie no need to draw all triangles if the terran is flat or if the triangle is far away )
etc..
There are many thing you can do to speed terran rendering, but the first thing to have is to get the terran in a good structure for all the above algorithm to work well
wouanagaine thank you for explaining! :thumbsup:
The only thing is.. that i just noticed that there are so many 'start' packages.. 3d engines etc. Why should i do all that work for myself :P
It's very technical and its not really my thing. Anyway, i'm allways intrested to learn, so if you have any tips / links for me to learn, please post :D
In the meanwhile I've seen the LightFeather Engine, and this one looks pretty good.. okay it's not ala CitiesXL or Crysis, but that's not what we are aiming here right? ..The main goal is to make a SC4 clone, so the community can modify / add new function's and depth to the game. Something that's not possible with SC4 now as at least 40% was still hard-coded.
This Terrain looks pretty good.. (engine: 2 years ago)..
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tt-forums.net%2Fdownload%2Ffile.php%3Fid%3D60515&hash=5951a0d1c547ace0dac05eefa402b4dc44bba116)
they kept developing in the past 3 years and look what they brought (engine: Now):
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flightfeather.de%2Fe107_plugins%2Fautogallery%2FGallery%2FLatest_LTE.jpg&hash=0b950a9bda18f317d4bf82c8daf17d94651604ce)
Looks great! Amazing work! &apls
Quote from: io_bg on February 06, 2009, 11:38:30 AM
Looks great! Amazing work! &apls
(the above 2 examples arent my work, but thanks anyway) :P
As I can see it runs at 21 fps , is it on your computer ? just because there is nothing else but rendering here. So if runs at 21 FPS on your computer, what can you expect to do simulation wise ?
It also use 4 textures for terran, usually you'll have to paint the terran, and the renderer will blend the 4 textures based on what you paint which at first glance is quite great, but when you get used to it, you'll definitly missed SC4 256 terran textures ( Cycledogg one, not maxis one )
But I agree with you, you should definitly try to find an existing engine which matches as much as possible your vision and what you'd like to do. Creating technologies and creating games are two different things, both rewarding and both requiring dedication and massive amount of time, you just have to choose where you want to be. But trying to do techno & game is bound to failure ( especially for hoby )
Quote from: wouanagaine on February 06, 2009, 11:46:47 AM
As I can see it runs at 21 fps , is it on your computer ? just because there is nothing else but rendering here. So if runs at 21 FPS on your computer, what can you expect to do simulation wise ?
It also use 4 textures for terran, usually you'll have to paint the terran, and the renderer will blend the 4 textures based on what you paint which at first glance is quite great, but when you get used to it, you'll definitly missed SC4 256 terran textures ( Cycledogg one, not maxis one )
But I agree with you, you should definitly try to find an existing engine which matches as much as possible your vision and what you'd like to do. Creating technologies and creating games are two different things, both rewarding and both requiring dedication and massive amount of time, you just have to choose where you want to be. But trying to do techno & game is bound to failure ( especially for hoby )
No wasn't on my pc.. I'm building the files right now, i want to see how it works. I have seen more engines and tested some of them.. i'll keep going. Never give up. But you are right, i have no plans to build my own engine (for now?) .. :P
:)
Last night i have been busy with designing the GUI (inGame City play).
Like i said before.. it must look and feel like Simcity 4.. it's a clone.
I used the Miramonte Font
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2Fsimcity%25204%2Fbat%2FGUI.jpg&hash=4c2874666cb41b4b581ec64c9a5adb6ff687bf88)
Looks great. :thumbsup:
I hope you won't get in any trouble with this, because you're basically copying Maxis his GUI design. I don't how they have copyrighted everything.
well.. i have proof, i 've made them all my self.. and the font is not theirs :P
Welcome to the world:
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/2788/video20090207113842cy0.swf
Wow that was quick, but I'm guessing that things like the simulator will take quite a bit more time.
And seeing as it's not for profit, I think it's legal?
Jonathan
being a big company, if they can screw you, they will try... so make it as different from the original as possible...
Joe
gotta say i'm lovin it so far and i have been lurking $%Grinno$%
the only thing I wonder when seeing all of this is: how will/would it preform on low(er) end systems, because not everyone has a core2quad and 2 Geforce 9600's (no offence meant)
Don't be afraid, you can run this :P
GPU draws only stuff that's visible now
interesting...how would you deal with the buildings? you know right now they are all simple mesh shapes with FSH images pasted on it to create illusions of complex 3D buildings. But it only works with fix camera angle views(ie, zoom 1 to 5) in game. Have you consider these issues?
Well, That's a possibility .. but i'm just not there yet. I'm not happy about the terrain yet.
A SC4 clone .. with the same type camera view isn't that bad.. the main goal was to make a customizable SC4 game. (working out new types of transport, more depth in the economy, more growable zone type's.
I need to learn more about the terrain before i can continue so @ the moment I'm taking tutorials.
You could lock the camera to the same zooms and rotations as SC4, but then any buildings made for it are in 3D, eventually they will all be 3D and you can unlock the camera?
Jonathan
That's what's in my mind.. but first.. i try to create the game like SC4.. no free movements yet .. Later..
I want to make it in 3d .. but letting it look like Simcity 4. And that's possible.. for sure. what about (randomly) swinging tree's with wind .. what about moving water.. moving shadows from the sun.., roads that can be configured.. IN GAME as mentioned in much CitiesXL topics. What about.. a climate.. etc etc >> blah blah So much is possible.. we don't even need a 3d camera. A
free camera 'can' destroy the game)..
I think that a free-camera (what will not be made it if a normal pc can't handle it) isn't necessary if all these realistic effects come in to place. Maybe 6 zooms, maybe more.. and of course WITH full -free- rotation.. smoother zoom - in / out..
Let me reconsider that GUI i made.. I will use it for now.. for the look&feel, but we can make a whole new GUI with all the wishes..
Better support for sub-menu's,
making a simcity clone is a bad idea, you will have to restrict yourself to the current zooms/positions if you wish to use the current plugins, and then you will have to code the rendering engine for showing them, and then you will be pretty much locked into what you were trying to escape. you might aswell just make it completly different
joe
Simcity = Inspiration..
A 3D engine, but look from top like Simcity.. (look my last post)
This is unique as other games get out of control once you have a free camera.
Zooms in a 3d engine isn't that hard.. just a matter of variables.
Simcity 4 stuff (plugins) are absolutely not compatible with this game but if the creators of some nice (custom content) buildings in SC4 still have the originals these buildings can be ported to This game.
I think if S3D models used inside dats as plugins for this game, then EA will probably come tell you off, so good idea to make them incompatible.
Although if 3ds models could be used in this game and there are the same rotations as in SC4 you could export the buildings and texture them(with the persons pemission) and use them it this game.
Jonathan
tbh, it is likely that (like i said before) if you make it even look similar, they will come chasing you for money, they like their money...
thanks for clearing that up tho :)
Joe
I would like to make daily progress of World Cities, but like I said in another message, we are 2 people with the project, we are renovating the room again and we move forward with the graphics.
It will not be open source, but if free, the game always free and only charge when the game is multiplayer online, but will be an amount of $ 1 or $ 2 per month, which is affordable for all world.
I must also give the reason in terms of language, will be in English and try to give the community what they want in the game, but we must always bear in mind that only 2 people are programming the game.
Take several months working on the project and hope does not disappoint anyone when we can launch a first operational version.
Greetings to all.
Are you one of the people working on the game that Nique has in his siganture?
tbh, if the game isn't open source then there isn't that much point, as probably the main point of these "homemade" SimCitys are so the community will have access to modify anything at any time.
Jonathan
About the interface and the legal, considering sites you all don't know about have done their own versions of Sim Town, and we all know, modders of this game took the title exact same title Sim Mars and completely redid the programming to SC4 where the interface, and programming was different, I don't see why there would be problems here, besides the point EA handed the last PC SimCity to Tilted Mill, and only published it. Nique, so long as you don't charge, EA can't touch you by the Fair Use- http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=UTF-8&fr=fptb-sunm-s&p=copyright+fair+use+law&rs=1&fr2=rs-top
This goes for anyone, provided you do NOT request money for these games, you can avoid legal trouble. The other thing, even though there are international laws, since I assume this will be a world wide project, how would they know who to hunt down. Seriously, I would not worry.
If someone sees anything in this.. please contact me..
i will quit this project if nobody can help.
Can't do it alone.
I can write C# methods to make a 'simulation'..
but i simply can't write a whole 3d engine on my own as the calculations are to complicated. When people show up with Z, M, A, X, Y blah blah -> that kind of short names in their lessons.. and examples. no one will be able to understand it. I'm searching the net for solutions.. looking at someone else's problems and many times i see that people have fixed their problem but NOT explaining how... and because of that, i have to make a similar topic / question with the exact same content... and wait.
I'm sorry.. this is my frustration..
I'm targetting this for example:
http://www.riemers.net/Forum/index.php?var=1196&var2=0 (http://www.riemers.net/Forum/index.php?var=1196&var2=0)
Hit CTRL+F on that page and search for:
"Posted by Quasar on 11/07/2008 at 00:44:33"
Something else.. this is a list i made (for future)
Roads:
- Pedestrian paths
- Extended Sidewalks / Parking etc
- Alley -> Commercial, pedestrian
- Street double
- Street one-way
- Main streets (road)
- Main streets one way
- Avenue's (wide sidewalks)
- Avenue's (small sidewalks)
- Provincial Roads
- Provincial Roads 3 lane
- Provincial Roads 4 lane
- Highway 4 lanes
- Highway 6 lanes
- Highway 8 lanes
Mass-Transit:- Bus
- Tram
- Subway - underground / above
- Ferries
- Train, 1 track, 2 tracks, 3 tracks, 4 tracks
- Maglev
- Zone able Airport, after zoning click on the zoned ground and configure what you want.
Zones:
- Parks
- Airport
- Farms
- Industrial $ (small businesses, factories)
- Industrial $$ (factories)
- Industrial $$$ (Large (international) factories)
- Industrial % (High tech, Pharmacy)
- Commercial O$ (Low wealth offices)
- Commercial O$$ (Medium wealth Offices)
- Commercial O$$$ (High rise Offices, such as banks)
- Commercial H$ (Low wealth, (think about small supermarkets in villages)
- Commercial H$$ (Medium Wealth, (Think about Mc Donalds, Bars, Cafe's)
- Commercial H$$$ (High Wealth, (Big restaurants etc)
- Commercial E$ (Low Wealth, (Think about a Open Theater, small open air pools)
- Commercial E$$ (Medium Wealth, (think about medium swimming pools, theaters, small Dancings, cinema)
- Commercial E$$$ (High Wealth, (Think about Casino's, Discotheque's)
- Residential $ (stands for it self)
- Residential $$ (also)
- Residential $$$ (also)
- Landfill
Now.. we're not finished yet! What about a combination of Commercial/Residential zoning. Before Developing the zone, you can click on the zone area and configure zonal configurations. Do you want housing on top of shops? Well this makes (town centers) very very realistic. When you are finished with configuring the 'area' you click on the the red flag in that particular window.. and the flag will turn into a green one.. This is the signal to start building. You can also name the current Area fore that you can change configurations in the future. There will be a tree view window available to check up on your 'district / area' This will create a realistic game play for sure :P
This way you can just leave the time bar while developing a new area!
It's a matter of calculations, the right height parameters for the commercial building, designing the right houses etc to build a home on top of a small / medium commercial shop. It should be possible.[/list]
I know I threw some cold water in my first post, Nique- but, my gosh! You are one programming maniac. Those are incredible things you've done, and on your own, too. It's easy to get disheartened that folks aren't rushing to jump in, here, but my guess is that the awe factor keeps a lot of folks just looking.
Great work! Your skills are certainly as great as your ambition.
David
Quote from: dedgren on February 08, 2009, 12:33:01 AM
I know I threw some cold water in my first post, Nique- but, my gosh! You are one programming maniac. Those are incredible things you've done, and on your own, too. It's easy to get disheartened that folks aren't rushing to jump in, here, but my guess is that the awe factor keeps a lot of folks just looking.
Great work! Your skills are certainly as great as your ambition.
David
o lol , i think there is a misunderstanding here :P i've not done those things '
yet' but those are things i actually
can do as (most of them) are not really 'directly' graphical related. I don't need to draw things on screen to create a zone level function. I can write the function.
If you really excited to make your own SimCity, do not hesitate to pursue those dreams should be tracked down and try to make them reality.
I'm trying to do but nothing is as simple as it sounds, because for everything to work, you need patience.
With regard to programming your own graphics engine, do not recommend it, you can take years if you do it yourself and then program it, you'll need to start with the programcion game.
There are many graphics engines for the net, some free, others pay, starting with a free and see what you think of the idea to the community.
To make a game that the community can then go to your contributions, you must be a great team of people, because I needed a first program of its own design, another for action on those creations and giving properties and integrating it into a database for the game to recognize the creative, too complicated to get started.
Provided that the community wants to participate, you have to make things simple and do this from the beginning, a serious attempt to draft a duration of several years and I think it is best that the community will have updates and new graphics every bit time.
Not if you understand my English because I am Spanish and I help to translate from google every time I write in the forum. I hope you understand.
Greetings to all.
I'm just wondering, Is this project still going on?
No,
a team of developers is needed. I started to trigger other ones to motivate and join, but i think it failed..
Sorry, i can not do this alone.
Well guys,
I've created a little test map (3x3 tiles) to write a function that flips the diagonal on a 'hill corner'.
I'm writing this to let you know this topic is not dead..
I have a hard time to do this job.
(this is mainly meant to understand how the triangles are being written to the graphics card. Later on, i can try to implant this feature on a free chosen open source XNA graphics engine. There are NO 3d engines that have this (diagonal flip) feature yet.. (really a shame!!)..)
Edit: I'm allmost done!!
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2Fsimcity%25204%2Fbat%2Fraster_almostdone.jpg&hash=53d46efdb108a92bf895ad37bf8de0de0c76b3b4)
Edit2:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2Fsimcity%25204%2Fbat%2Fdone_1.jpg&hash=c59aad4f615530ced833f6cf63337dba81018a6a)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2Fsimcity%25204%2Fbat%2Fdone2.jpg&hash=9fa3e3fea2919806ded4366fd4e60f8b44e6b067)
hey nique, is the top center one not "supposed to" be the other diagonal? or is that just a perspective issue?
btw, its looking awesome, thanks for continuing :)
Quote from: JoeST on March 11, 2009, 12:35:53 PM
hey nique, is the top center one not "supposed to" be the other diagonal? or is that just a perspective issue?
btw, its looking awesome, thanks for continuing :)
I think i have finally succeeded.
i have modified the that image u talked about.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2Fsimcity%25204%2Fbat%2Fdone2.jpg&hash=9fa3e3fea2919806ded4366fd4e60f8b44e6b067)
(edit, better image without diagonals on 'normal squares')
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2Fsimcity%25204%2Fbat%2Fdone3.jpg&hash=67249f64dc44a5f139ca91cd7c021d02e6ef2010)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2Fsimcity%25204%2Fbat%2Finnercorners1.jpg&hash=4f1923d171cc535693f1477fe7f0efc07d561d4e)
Orange Arrow = default diagonal line
Green Arrow = new diagonal line
Blue dots = mapheight = 0.0 units
red dots = mapheight = 1.0 units
From now on, the game calculates where to put the diagonal, and it also calculates the points where to put the points..
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2Fsimcity%25204%2Fbat%2Fterraintest1.jpg&hash=dca0343a8b64eed283657253843293a136ac6ea3)
This is a 128x128 map in Wire-frame mode.. (the random height generator is not finished yet so it is a flat terrain)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2Fsimcity%25204%2Fbat%2Fterraintest2.jpg&hash=f2b1b94a03510635797304ae81df5a52f8a9f2be)
This is a 512x512 map in Wire-frame mode..
Damn, i draw the camera position text behind the 3d scene.. lol!
Wow, this is a giant undertaking, Nique! :thumbsup:
Quote from: Nique on March 11, 2009, 03:31:50 PM
From now on, the game calculates where to put the diagonal, and it also calculates the points where to put the points..
Will the new style of grid allow buildings to align to diagonal roads when they grow? That is something that was requested for SC4 even before it was released.
Theoretically: Yes, should be possible.. but that's for later on ;).
The diagonals i was talking about are to smoothen the look of the terrain.
I'm busy with a random map generator:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2Fsimcity%25204%2Fbat%2Fterraintest3.jpg&hash=a76eec373483c411cba16527c10087259d3d7e31)
And Height maps also supported (this is Tokyo)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2Fsimcity%25204%2Fbat%2Fterraintest4.jpg&hash=b54a65fb753e3df7eede44a388940ef938942f11)
It's all still wireframe because i didn't wrote a method to draw textures, but it will be on soon ;)
Textured (wireframe, there are shadow is a normal mapping problem)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2Fsimcity%25204%2Fbat%2Fterrain1.jpg&hash=e45d7adda67b5de7ea3548f59f41955078557d82)
good work :thumbsup:
Regarding your shadow problem ( Is it shadow ? or just the Normal Vector dot product Light Vector ? ),
In case of the later, how do you compute your normal ? From the look of your pic, it looks like your only taking the normal up component ( Y in you case ? ) into account
Quote from: wouanagaine on March 12, 2009, 12:29:43 AM
good work :thumbsup:
Regarding your shadow problem ( Is it shadow ? or just the Normal Vector dot product Light Vector ? ),
In case of the later, how do you compute your normal ? From the look of your pic, it looks like your only taking the normal up component ( Y in you case ? ) into account
&idea I'll give a look to the method that takes care of it. I think you're right!
Thnx
Should this game use the same 'region' idea as SC4? Because, when a single region has more then 512x512 squares performance is dropping very fast. They seem to look transparent
Well .. it 'is' kinda weird:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2Fsimcity%25204%2Fbat%2Fterraintest5.jpg&hash=b1b8fd72f7a5efdcdd773347c86ad8522d8d1281)
Blue background:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2Fsimcity%25204%2Fbat%2Fterraintest6.jpg&hash=52ae5016373dec43a9925cac8470ae40940e9530)
Last night i spent some time organizing and cleaning up the project..
Everything is ordered and separated from the main file now.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2Fsimcity%25204%2Fbat%2Forganized.jpg&hash=f5f67a863424ff9db8582498cad5b423fe4b74ef)
Features that i am working out
- When you create a new map (from heightmap images OR just a new flat terrain) you can customize the snow level and you can choose from different ground textures. This will 'only' apply on the current (in this case: new) region.
In case you didn't noticed yet: It's written in C# and i'm using the XNA Framework from Microsoft.
If anyone out here has knowledge of C# and wants join me please let me know. XNA is very very great to work with!
Hi there!
I just finished one of the most important things of the game..
Your pointer gets the terrain position (and returns the terrain height on the next image).
If this method wasn't there, you wouldn't be able to draw a road (or anything) on the terrain ;)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2Fsimcity%25204%2Fbat%2Fpointedheight.jpg&hash=37041276573fa6136e5dd9c8a6c8c321f933b82e)
I'm still suffering with that normals problem..
Quote from: metarvoWill the new style of grid allow buildings to align to diagonal roads when they grow? That is something that was requested for SC4 even before it was released.
The way it worked in SC4 was that a 2x2 diagonal building would use a corner road connection requirement so it could grow on a diagonal street. Somehow knowing that, may help to program this remake. Personally maybe we should not use road connection requirement. If I had the capable computer, and the brains to do this I so would. I know modeling with certain programs, but not programing yet. I actually had a dream about this game, and the first person, free-cam ground level perspective.
Hello dudes,
I smoothen out the camera movement, Zoom in / Out done with mouse scroller (or plus/minus symbol)
http://www.youtube.com/v/-GgecLKm0G4&hl=nl&fs=1
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2Fsimcity%25204%2Fbat%2F2009-03-14_015048.jpg&hash=1db93eabfa3f97597257016fe2ed33a15073cdb2)
Quote from: j-dub on March 13, 2009, 02:53:19 PM
The way it worked in SC4 was that a 2x2 diagonal building would use a corner road connection requirement so it could grow on a diagonal street. Somehow knowing that, may help to program this remake. Personally maybe we should not use road connection requirement. If I had the capable computer, and the brains to do this I so would. I know modeling with certain programs, but not programing yet. I actually had a dream about this game, and the first person, free-cam ground level perspective.
Maybe it's a good idea to check for a road in a certain radius? and automatically and randomly create gardens/driveways between a entrance point from the buildings and the road?
Just a throw..
I have fixed the Lightning problem! ;)
http://www.youtube.com/v/kKPzK-udQ9Y&hl=nl&ap=%2526fmt%3D22
- Note: The water is not ready yet!, I'm gonna add much realistic effects (shoreline waves) ..
:thumbsup: Intresting progress here Nique!!!
Wow, that's looking really good well done!!!! :thumbsup:
(Don't know if this is relevant atm, but will water be at a certain height, or can the water be at different Elevations in one city?)
Jonathan
Quote from: Warrior on March 14, 2009, 12:06:32 AM
Wow, that's looking really good well done!!!! :thumbsup:
(Don't know if this is relevant atm, but will water be at a certain height, or can the water be at different Elevations in one city?)
Jonathan
Yes it should be possible to make 'rivers' from the top of the mountain (elevation lifted) but i think this will 'eat' a lot of resources from your computer.
I saw some interesting tree modelshttp://reinerstileset.4players.de/3DplantsE.html
oh that is just SUPER AWESOME!!!!
and you could always make the streams thing a plugin/addon, and you could make it so the mapmaker could draw a path for the river to flow down, thus making it less intensive?
Joe
Wow , Nique! You are making some excellent progress. I have zero to offer you in this , but if I could I most definitely would!
Jayson
Thnx
I think everyone can help (later on) by modeling new or adjusting existing buildings that we can use in this game. :D
I'm currently rewriting the MultiTexture part.
In the past, the CPU toke the job, but now i will move that to the GPU using vertexShaders.
This will give the CPU more breath space to do all the 'City simulation calculations'.
Later this evening i will upload a improved impression! (i think without water because I'm gonna rewrite / that code to) Things didn't go i wanted them to go.. &ops I'm getting really weird results now.
So far, what I can see of that terrain is very good, Nique. I really like the direction that this is going. :thumbsup:
Hello guys,
I'm seeking for a C# programmer that can develop city simulations with me. Thank you!
Note: I'm currently on a road trip so i can't do anything about the game for this moment. I'm back in a week! ()stsfd(). In the mean time i can still read / reply the forums.
THE OPEN SIMCITY DESIGN DOCUMENT IS BEING MOVED TO THE FIRST POST:
http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=6920.msg219591#msg219591
Nice Ideas. I hope you can find a programmer, it would be a waste not to go on with this project!
I am able to program various objects in the game C# but of course, doing the whole game on my own will take years... and is a 'no go' :)
I'd also like to recommend two additional types of industry: Polluting industry and manufacturing industry. Polluting industry could be things like metalworks where coal is burned to make steel, or a chemical factory, and manufacturing industry could be other factories that don't pollute as much, but do pollute some, such as furniture factories or automotive factories.
Quote from: nerdly_dood on March 16, 2009, 03:44:05 PM
I'd also like to recommend two additional types of industry: Polluting industry and manufacturing industry. Polluting industry could be things like metalworks where coal is burned to make steel, or a chemical factory, and manufacturing industry could be other factories that don't pollute as much, but do pollute some, such as furniture factories or automotive factories.
I think i'll add Manufacturing..
Polluting is something you should know when you build 'manufacturing / dirty types of industry'. Everyone knows High-tech will not pollute.
anyway, i'll add 'Chemical Industry also'.
The Game Design Document is being moved to the top of the topic (first post).
see: http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=6920.msg219591#msg219591
Maybe it's time to create a website / project page somewhere.
if you want a website, just ask :) I can get a board/section/wiki/subdomain on my friends server for you to use and I can also help code the website ;)
Joe
Quote from: JoeST on March 17, 2009, 02:05:07 AM
if you want a website, just ask :) I can get a board/section/wiki/subdomain on my friends server for you to use and I can also help code the website ;)
Joe
Well that would be great! Thanks. I will ask you in about a week for more because i'm not at home right now.
I have another question. It's about residential zones.
I was thinking about to split it up to 3 different types of housing.
- Country side
Mansions, villa's
- Village / suburbs
typical village buildings, row houses etc
- City
Think about street2street row houses, large but low buildings and huge buildings
In city sized buildings, their gardens are @ the other side of the building instead of street. You should be able to build blocks.
I kinda went ahead and coppied over your "design document" to my wiki
http://wiki.arcath.net/index.php/Open_Simcity
with the current body (the zones bit) here;
http://wiki.arcath.net/index.php/Zones_(OSC)
Hope you dont mind
Joe
hi niquee...
there is an open port version of the original simcity now available for unix by some guy named Don Hopkins. It is called Micropolis. It doesn't work for windows yet, only UNIX. However it would be worth studying since sc4 is basically just a pretty front end for the original game. Heres a link to the article which has further links to the source etc. It could help! And it's written in C and apparently the graphics have been separated from the simulation in the code.
http://www.simphoni.net/2008/01/open-source-simcity/ (http://www.simphoni.net/2008/01/open-source-simcity/)
bud
Quote from: buddybud on March 19, 2009, 07:49:53 PM
hi niquee...
there is an open port version of the original simcity now available for unix by some guy named Don Hopkins. It is called Micropolis. It doesn't work for windows yet, only UNIX. However it would be worth studying since sc4 is basically just a pretty front end for the original game. Heres a link to the article which has further links to the source etc. It could help! And it's written in C and apparently the graphics have been separated from the simulation in the code.
http://www.simphoni.net/2008/01/open-source-simcity/ (http://www.simphoni.net/2008/01/open-source-simcity/)
bud
Hey,
Thank you guys (also Joest) i wil take a look @ it from monday as i'm home by then! As i did know about the "one laptop per child" project and the open source of Simcity.. i've never managed to find the actual source code yet.
When i have time, i spend it to write a game design document.
Nice work i have been learning computers so when you are done with the engine maybe I can help you with the grafics as I am good at computer Grafics Design so yea just let me know
Quote from: Mulege on March 24, 2009, 02:53:23 PM
Nice work i have been learning computers so when you are done with the engine maybe I can help you with the grafics as I am good at computer Grafics Design so yea just let me know
Hi, Computer graphics is very width.. what do you mean with that? Creating GUI's ? In game graphics?
----
Today i started (re)writing a simple 'debug console' that takes input from different components and write these lines 'live' to the game screen. (see that mouse position in the lower left of the screen in the movie on the previous page).
these are just small things that makes creating new components for the game a lot easier.
Thanks for the WIKI page. I will take a look @ it when i have the time. I'm currently stuck at drawing a 'squared' grid like the simcity 4 grid on the terrain. I need to know what method is the best to do this.
I do apologize for the bump, but I found something that misht be of use to you Nique:
This is a search for free graphics engines. (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=active&q=%22free+graphics+engine+download%22) I'm not sure if it will help, but I know you were looking for a graphics engine, so...
Anyway, apologies for the gravedig but it looks like this could go somewhere!
EDIT: OK, looks like you've got a graphics engine already. (I finally got a chance to see the pictures/videos.) And, WOW! All this so far has been done by one person and it's amazing!
I just tried that for the heck of it, and it does not seem to turn up the 3-D graphics as much as it should.
The only engines I know from my video games that I can find them on the net are:
The Havoc Engine- http://www.havok.com/component/option,com_mosforms/mosform,2/Itemid,71/
and Valve's Source Engine- http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Main_Page
However this is serious here. I do not do game development, but I know this requires serious involvement. Both engines have been used in games EA has released, Havoc has been in alot of different publisher titles though then the Source one. For a while Havoc seemed to just hand their physics and animation engines for free, you can still just get it into your system, but its more involved, and may only be free via evaluation period use. The second one I think requires you to have something called Steam, and have bought one of their games, but you then have the tools provided for free or something, and I have seen a lot of people use that. My friend has assess to those tools, but I wouldn't know how to use them myself, I only bought their games for my PS3. I do know game players, not makers have made cities with that, and people will use them for other Source games later. You would not believe how detailed they make this stuff. The difference is the Source engine may only be one thing you need to get your hands on, but Havoc looks like its more then 2 steps of engine. Now a days they seem to tell the game engine you when you start these HD vid games.
The problem is, Havoc can't be used for free and Source, well let's just say that it's really better suited to first-person shooters.
QuoteAs i did know about the "one laptop per child" project and the open source of Simcity.. i've never managed to find the actual source code yet.
That code is located here (http://www.donhopkins.com/home/micropolis/)
The file you want is "MicropolisCore.tgz", it builds with Visual C++ 2005.
Although I don't know how much help it will be to a C# project :thumbsup:
I am a little frustrated as i weren't able to find a co-coder .. to join me. I just can not do this alone as this project needs more time than i can give in my whole life.
Thats why companies put millions in projects. I think i've shown the potential for what we can do.. this far.
But i really need some buddies with me..
Quote from: Nique on July 31, 2009, 12:24:35 PM
I am a little frustrated as i weren't able to find a co-coder .. to join me. I just can not do this alone as this project needs more time than i can give in my whole life.
Thats why companies put millions in projects. I think i've shown the potential for what we can do.. this far.
But i really need some buddies with me..
well I can code C# now, thanks to my job :D
(yes thats an offer of help ;) )
Joe
Hey, that's great!
Maybe it's a good idea to start from scratch because this far i used Microsoft's XNA game Studio. XNA is only for XBox and Windows. And i guess we want to support more. What about Blender or Blender + Ogre ? Maybe we shouldnt make it full 3d but use the same technique SC4 has used. But this time, the game is our's and we can add/remove as many things as we want. You have seen my topic about the dutch textures.. i can texture objects 'pretty well'. I am not easy satisfied.
Nique
(don't you agree CitiesXL is just 'not' it...)
I dont mind what we use (though I'm not a fan of anything proprietary)
and when I said help, I didnt mean develop a whole game from scratch, just help program when I can, my job is taking up 90% of my time atm, and then I will go back to uni.
Joe
EDIT: I am with cogeo, .NET sucks...
Quote from: null45 on May 16, 2009, 09:14:47 PM
Although I don't know how much help it will be to a C# project :thumbsup:
I would rather second this! Lousy and unpredictable memory management and an additional layer of "development environment". Don't know the performance issues exactly, but I don't like the idea of involving .NET here. Maybe the native environment would be preferable.
Well...I did some brainstorming today. I thought that a nice way of doing 'multiplayer' mode, would be to store the cities/worlds in a distributed revision control repository. I personally know git (http://git-scm.com) and how it works, (including, to some extent, its plumbing mechanisms).
So what we have is world repositories stored on a server. Each one of these worlds holds all the empty-worlds terrain/climate/(other worldwide) data. The author of the world repo is the only one that can update it (unless he gives permission to others).
To start playing with this world, you clone the repo to your local store (a folder on your pc). This allows you to view and edit the world. It also allows you to start creating and building cities.
If you wish you can subdivide the world into rough country/province/region areas (henceforth called region repos), which become sub-repos to the main world. These can then contain multiple city and even sub region (for example, the multiple states in America, or different continents, or (if you LOVE micromanaging) different postal addresses).
A city (or countryside region) contains all the information related to your city. In building mode, every time you do one of these actions:
- Create neighbourhood/transport network/etc.
- Edit LOTish (an abstract, (dynamically created), in-game-editable Lot thing).
- Auto save1.
- Micromanage economy/etc..
The game saves what you have done in a commit. Which allows for both concurrent playing (two people playing the same city) and undoing actions.
Once you have reached a stage where you wish to share your city: either read-only (so people can browse it on the web/use it as a neighbour) or read-write (a colaborated city project). You publish (what is known as a tag and/or push in git) your city to the public place2.
So, an example:
Our good friend David (dedgren) feels like starting a 3RR in our game. He clones (downloads) the Earth repo from a server that has it and opens the game. He now has an empty world thats the size of Earth (relatively) and has a bland outline of the continents and seas and mountains (no point having a fully blown detailed map when you can detail it out in sub-regions). He then has to download (in the background) the North-America sub-region, which includes more detail of that specific area.
He selects New Region from a menu or something. He drags out the space that 3RR occupies in the North-America sub-region of Earth and calls it Three-Rivers-Region. This now has a folder on his pc with all the terrain data of that region in it (I guess it would be blank, or maybe a copied version of the area it covered in North-America) . He sets to terraforming it how he likes (with auto-commits behind tool-change events) and all that data is saved in his Three-Rivers-Region repo.
After that is done, he divides the land up into parts for his collaborators to work on. So he now has a load of sub-project-repos in his Three-Rivers-Region folder/repo. Each is fully editable by him, editable to a level he selects by its named collaborator, privately-viewable by other collaborators (so that they can match boundaries, check out stuff) and publicly viewable to the public (like a web-viewer or something).
The place that he is hosting has something along the lines of Trac (http://trac.edgewall.org/), which allows him to set a task-list for the collaborator, and restricts the publicly-viewable repos to be selected to certain 'releases'. It also allows the public to report 'bugs' like where trees grow through buildings, and things like that.
Another Example:
One of the NHP guys releases a map of Middle Earth, and Bob (a fictional user) clones it (as part of an Arda world repo tagged 3rd age). He starts making a region in Rohan with a city called Edoras. He plays out the creation of Rohan from when Eorl is given the lands for coming to Gondors (another region/city, possibly built by someone else) aid. Each update is run on a blog, acompanied with a city-viewer for that particular published (tagged commited) version of the city.
He misses the creation of a sub-building of Meduseld in one of his updates and goes back to fix it so it can be destroyed later on (??). So he finds the update and loads it up (by branching at that published commit), and adds it in. He then needs to merge his fixes in to the main branch (the story thread), which is all possible through git 3.
NB:
1. Obviously automatic...
2. A public place can be any server that has git installed.
3. Binary saved data might make it harder, we would have to write a binary->gui converter for the merge tool and then a gui->binary back again at the end of the merge, probably a hooks script would do it :D
Dude...that sounds better than CitiesXL, ie, don't have to pay to play on a planet.
Hi JoeST,
Today, i was thinking about the game too. For 3d it should be (in my opinion) very easy for users to create their buildings in the game using programs like 'google sketchup' etc. BUT.... maybe we should try something very simple in the begin and drop the whole 3d engine in the first stage. We can do 3d later, i think it is a better idea to create the simulation engine first and use some simple (flat) 2d graphics / stats to monitor it. When enough stuff works.. we can go 3d as we can keep the whole 3d thing in mind while developing the game. ;).
Your multi-player plan sounds great, i will study it tomorrow! (i was too curious and read it now)That sounds very very good as it will minimize the amount of data that's being send to the server! Very cool idea!. I know what you're talking about.. it's like svn repositories i use for web projects, but then.. for large amounts of binary data ;). But being me, have you also thought about a database engine (like SQL). I don't know what is better (faster / secure) to use, but maybe the SQL idea gives you another point of view ;P
How abouts:Manipulated data? Can we check on cheated data? (like new (false) contracts between cities (if we want to trade) that will ruin someone else's city).
Because if you trade between cities (power, water etc.) you'll also have to write a update to another cities trade data. Here it comes even more complexed as we have to decide what 'time' system we use. We have to create world economy data also.. we need to know how much money one city has.. and update it each (fictional?) amount of time as the contracts between cities exists.
(i hope i explained this in a readable piece of English language ;) )
The Name of the game:I also thought about the name of the game as "Open Simcity" can be a pain in the ass seen from EA's office. So, what about
"CITY (or) SIM MAYOR"
People who read this and have the idea they can help (brainstorming, ideas, examples), Please share it with us! Thank you!
Title ideas: Simulated City? Simulated Cityscape? Simulated City Limits? City of Sim? Simburbia? Sim Suburb? Sim Suburbia? Simburb? Simulated Metropolis? Sim Metropolis? (don't make me say Simtropolis) Sim Capital? Sim Citadel? Simulated City Tycoon? Urban Tycoon? Urban Planner Sim? City Designer Sim?
Quote from: Nique on August 07, 2009, 05:59:47 PM
Hi JoeST,
Today, i was thinking about the game too. For 3d it should be (in my opinion) very easy for users to create their buildings in the game using programs like 'google sketchup' etc. BUT.... maybe we should try something very simple in the begin and drop the whole 3d engine in the first stage. We can do 3d later, i think it is a better idea to create the simulation engine first and use some simple (flat) 2d graphics / stats to monitor it. When enough stuff works.. we can go 3d as we can keep the whole 3d thing in mind while developing the game. ;).
Sounds alight to me, though you do know that, without the prospect of 3D from the start, not many people will want to join and help. This happened with UrbsUrbis, another comunnity built one. We never got anywhere because we ended up arguing between 3D and not 3D.
Quote from: Nique on August 07, 2009, 05:59:47 PM
Your multi-player plan sounds great, i will study it tomorrow! (i was too curious and read it now)
That sounds very very good as it will minimize the amount of data that's being send to the server! Very cool idea!. I know what you're talking about.. it's like svn repositories i use for web projects, but then.. for large amounts of binary data ;). But being me, have you also thought about a database engine (like SQL). I don't know what is better (faster / secure) to use, but maybe the SQL idea gives you another point of view ;P
We could use a database engine too, its just the change-tracking abilities of a DVCS like git lets you undo much easier (along the lines of `git branch [commit id]`).
It depends, what were you going to use a DB for?
Quote from: Nique on August 07, 2009, 05:59:47 PM
How abouts:
Manipulated data? Can we check on cheated data? (like new (false) contracts between cities (if we want to trade) that will ruin someone else's city).
Because if you trade between cities (power, water etc.) you'll also have to write a update to another cities trade data. Here it comes even more complexed as we have to decide what 'time' system we use. We have to create world economy data also.. we need to know how much money one city has.. and update it each (fictional?) amount of time as the contracts between cities exists.
Using git that's easy to fix..you just undo to a point before the bad stuff happens :D.
Though that would only happen if you have agreed with the player to both track their most-recent commits. As you could, for example, download an old published commit and just work as if it never changes (lol) or ...in the future, we might have an AI-ish thing that can start growing any city for you.
Joe
How about...OSC, AKA, Open Source City? That way, we can keep the acronym we already have.
Hey, Open Source City, does sound like a good final name.
Hey,
The WIKI pages fails..
Also, i'm 99% sure i am doing game development college for the next 4 years.. That will definitely help ;) Maybe i can make this a scholar project
out of pure curiosity: where? Because I'm considering to do the same ;) I know of 2 places where you can study it in the Benelux:
HoWest (Kortrijk, West-Vlaanderen, Belgium)
and Utrecht (Holland)
What Wiki pages are you talking about Nique?
Quote from: WC_EEND on August 11, 2009, 03:24:05 PM
out of pure curiosity: where? Because I'm considering to do the same ;) I know of 2 places where you can study it in the Benelux:
HoWest (Kortrijk, West-Vlaanderen, Belgium)
and Utrecht (Holland)
Since last year also in Groningen ;) And that's where i go.
Quote from: dragonshardz on August 11, 2009, 03:45:44 PM
What Wiki pages are you talking about Nique?
The WIKI pages, JoeST created for this project (http://wiki.arcath.net/index.php/Open_Simcity). I'm currently working from scratch.. creating a tile engine
i needed the WIKI to add some development information
ZONE ID's have sublevel id's currently using VECTOR3 {zone, subtype, density}
Example:
Vector3(2,1,2);
means
Vector3(commercial, retail, medium);
Per tile properties
// Basic
bool zonable= true;
bool watered = false;
bool powered = false;
(..more to come)
Hard time on terrain picking
http://s5.photobucket.com/flash/player.swf?repeat=true&file=http://vid5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/Ne0que/Tilepick_alpha.flv
yeah, the wiki is down because the database engine my friend uses (mysqld) is broken, like totally.
well done with that video, its looking awesome :D
Joe
This project is just AWESOME! :thumbsup:
Since I'm not a skilled programmer (yet), I won't be able to contribute to the game engine. However, I'll be more than happy to make textures or designing the GUI. ;)
- riiga
I aint a skilled programmer either, i'm just doing it $%Grinno$%
By the way, (soory),
If you are interested in learning programming (even games)..
Google for "XNA 3.0 Game Programming torrent (http://www.google.nl/search?hl=nl&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Anl%3Aofficial&hs=KOc&q=Beginning+XNA+3.0+Game+Programming+torrent&btnG=Zoeken&meta=)".
Read that book online while doing the practices, and you'll be able to learn very fast. It's just the beginning. Code in C#.
I never let myself down or walk away just because i don't understand it. I 'm a digger.. i want to learn. I learned all the HTML basics on the age of 11 in just 1 night ;). When i want to learn.. i learn very fast. So this is my advice. If you are exited to do something in this world of game programming, just go for it!
For this project i keep using the XNA framework because it's easy to learn (in compare with other ways of learning) and it is very very object based programming. XNA is only for xBox, Zune and Windows.. but maybe in a later stage it will be possible to port it also to Linux. First things first.
You should consider getting a project thing somewhere, like <http://github.com/> or <http://code.google.com/>. They usually come with a wiki and bug-tracking.
Joe
Does that book assume you know anything about C# in general?
If not then that's exactly what i'm looking for.
Jonathan
Quote from: JoeST on August 12, 2009, 12:16:09 PM
You should consider getting a project thing somewhere, like <http://github.com/> or <http://code.google.com/>. They usually come with a wiki and bug-tracking.
Joe
I'll think about it ;)
Quote from: Jonathan on August 12, 2009, 12:33:25 PM
Does that book assume you know anything about C# in general?
If not then that's exactly what i'm looking for.
Jonathan
It does not ;)
I've been thinking about the GUI design, and came up with this mock-up (sorry I used Paint, however I'm fully capable of using PS):
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi705.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww55%2Fanonymson%2FOSC_gui.gif&hash=135e7ed14eab8bf248738798b9e69e7306cae46c)
I really liked the SC4 GUI, so my suggestion is that we try to mimic the SC4 GUI, but with some modifications.
The three buttons are: Building mode, Planning mode, and Query.
Also, after seeing the IMO failed attempt with free zoning in Cities XL, I drew this concept:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi705.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww55%2Fanonymson%2FOSC_Zoning.gif&hash=75e750a6b0ece8bb7fa8f12f520b8ade78c9581b)
Basically, you can either zone SC4 style, or you can draw a zone in which the best fitting building is placed, and the rest is filled with e.g. grass or asphalt.
Please feel free to comment and criticise the ideas. ;)
- riiga
Nice GUI riiga. Also a rather novel way of LOTing. I was actually considering semi-procedural lot creation, with an in-game LOT-editor. Though that does cut out a large percentage of the great talent we have here at SC4D :D...
Semi-Procedural LOT Creation:
A 'BAT' consists of many components, like a facade, walls, roof, balconies. Each component can be generic (A building-front has no brick texture, an unpainted door). Each component is modeled in a modeling program and 'BAT's are merely collections of these components assembled into a building in a programmatic manner (at run time).
A 'LOT' takes up all the space you allocate it. It pseudo-randomly generates a position for the building, and fills the rest of the space with 'prop's and could in theory draw a textured path from an entrance to the building and a lot face.
Joe
What about clicking on the zone you have just created and then specify more options. If you lay down some Medium Commercial Zones.. you can specify in a zone options window what type of commercial should grow there (retail, services, offices ?) by just checking a checkbox.
Or even better; you can go in 'zone select' modus and select more zones at the same time to edit their zone options.
It is also a good idea to use that 'zone select' tool to select more zones at the same time and add them to a (virtual) neighborhood (eg. Downtown). With this 'neighborhood' you will be able to set global options.
Quote from: Nique on August 13, 2009, 06:19:03 AM
What about clicking on the zone you have just created and then specify more options. If you lay down some Medium Commercial Zones.. you can specify in a zone options window what type of commercial should grow there (retail, services, offices ?) by just checking a checkbox.
Or even better; you can go in 'zone select' modus and select more zones at the same time to edit their zone options.
It is also a good idea to use that 'zone select' tool to select more zones at the same time and add them to a (virtual) neighborhood (eg. Downtown).
Exactly my ideas! I guess we will be using boolean values on a per tile/zone basis to determine this?
- riiga
I don't know (yet) how to implement this inside the game using math, brainstorming first :P. Everything is possible
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg12.imageshack.us%2Fimg12%2F4182%2Fsimcityexample.jpg&hash=c6f24c40c0204320566e6a6f24d0436e7c2a1fd6)
But i still think the best way to go is, just make the gameplay features identical to Simcity 4.. then after that we can modify this and/or add new functions to expand.
I don't know why... this
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg40.imageshack.us%2Fimg40%2F585%2Fgrassz.png&hash=294fac72e042be187305b2b7bae2e30070ce2602)
is changing into this:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg6.imageshack.us%2Fimg6%2F3946%2F20090813172008.jpg&hash=569103709058054bf58ed311e82c38a1cf670a3f)
weird ugly white 'arrow like' shapes.. and darker colors..
this is a hell of a job :(
Well the wiki is back up.
Joe
Thank you mate,
I'm currently busy with the GameScene part. To organize the project this is fatal. Let's make this clear for you guys. Someone needs to cut the knot here ;).
First of all, i want to go as close to the Simcity 4 game(play) as much as possible. When that's done, we start improve the game from there!. So first i want to clone the game. That said, i can tell the fallowing.
The region idea isn't that bad at all. I've played Cities XL BETA.. (cant talk about the game itself) but i prefer regions above that planet mode. CitiesXL is using pre-rendered almost static terrains. In SC4, we had regions, and the regions where very very customizable. So i will clone that 'game scene' also. Why do i say 'game scene', well because it is one. A game has several scenes. Like: Region, City (God Mode) and City (Mayor Mode). These are 3 different play scenes.
This is like the most boring part of creating a game (in my opinion) because you see only a little or even no build results after coding.
When you start the game you get these scenes:
CREDITS / LOGO SCREEN
Game Loading screen
Region Mode
City Loading screen
City God Mode*
City Mayor Mode*
Legend
Green Automatic after starting up the game or before loading a scene
Orange On command
* You can switch between these mode's inside the city mode
Now, in the future (the infrastructure is ready) language packages can be modified or created by just a XML file. This XML file has lot's of tags (and later categorized). We can even release a translation tool (very simple) by programming a windows application that reads / modifies the XML file without ruining the structure.
Now that's for translation. This far, i haven't be able to implant the language thing for 100% but in the debug window i can already translate several words from English to Dutch. I will not create the dutch language file before the game is finished, i just created it to test with. Next thing to do is creating a languageManager that will handle changes that where made by the user.
I have downloaded a template (i'm not going to invent the wheel twice) for GameScene creation and modified it. When you start the game, the first screen is the Region screen. Later, in that region screen, you can see the current loaded Region on a terrain. When clicking on a city you will go to that city. I have simulated the city in the form of the text "play game".. so this is it this far:
http://i5.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/Ne0que/OpenCity/GameScenes.flv
The texture is doing that because it is flipping every tile and the texture is darker round the edges and has half a triangle on it.
Is there some way of creating a texture programmaticly so there is no texture which you use, it creates the texture itself. That way there will be no repitition anywhere on the map?
Jonathan
Oh ok, I thought it would have been better to start afresh, taking some of the ideas from SC4 and making a fresh game, rather than cloning it and then improving. Its much easier to start again than to edit old code ;).
On the texturing issue, you could have a larger grass texture, and select just part of it.
When you talk about regions, are you talking about square ones? With square sub-areas for cities.... gah. Would it not be nicer to have fluid worlds that are as (if not more) customisable as SC4 terrains? The fact that you have to unload to swap cities is an archaic problem...and the discontinuation of cities at edges...ewww.
XML is all good and shiny, but plaintext has plus sides too, things like their footprint and loading times are much smaller. I have a C# INI file reader, you could make use of that for .lang files (and of course for the actual settings :D).
Joe
Well, fluid rounded regions & cities are much harder to code. SC4 is really a good game but it could be so much more. With improving the clone, i mean.. allow curved roads and stuff like that. I think it's good to take a lot of examples from SC4.. because we have no team to plan and organize, how to - implant ideas. While when we use the ideas from SC4 (at the beginning) there will be no time wasting on 'where to begin' but 'how do we do that'.
I've deleted the terrain again, because it was organized like crap. A new terrainEngine can be written quiet fast (with XNA). About the INI reader, well i've implant the XML feature for now because i did a tutorial on that. If you (or a tutorial) can explain me how to import, read and write INI files.. well stuff like that is always welcome here! ;)
Graphical User Interface
Because i have had some headaches from coding i created some graphics we can use. In general, these are form elements:
Forms:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2FOpenCity%2FGUI%2FRadioButton.png&hash=b293568513da8b1bb37d03440b585928952059f7) RadioButton
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2FOpenCity%2FGUI%2FCheckBox.png&hash=2aeb10d6c8d599b8cdffdf9f7f575a439c8fd7f9) CheckBox:
Manipulators
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2FOpenCity%2FGUI%2FSlideBar.png&hash=18acff78bae970a4d690d6bd3b38e8bc165b1145) SlideBar:
ScrollBar
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2FOpenCity%2FGUI%2FScrollbarArrowUp.png&hash=3858e0ea965928fafd9b1f8d491e92a7386f2ea6) (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2FOpenCity%2FGUI%2FScrollbarArrowDown.png&hash=8020596abbfdc5e4f76b67891244c02b3745fbfb) Scrollbar Arrows
*Note that these are PNG files with an Alpha channel (transparent), if you are running Internet Explorer older then version 8 you will see a blue background what is actually not there
I can pass you the code file I used, its pretty simple. It has a Read function that takes in the Section (bit in [] brakets) and the key and returns a string of the value. and a write function that takes the section the key and the value. You can make a wrapper class that has a nice front end (as in, all the settings are Properties with set and get parts that convert the value from the ini file to what it actually represents.
And it would be much easier to code the fluid-rounded regions/cities at the start than converting a clone to that. I agree its good to take examples from sc4.
Joe
I want to categorize parts of the translation (game menu's etc).. and also for objects in the game. I think XML fits fine here. But the INI becomes very interesting to put inside the game folder to import/save advanced settings like fullscreen running, screen resolution and so on.
Hi there,
I want to use 'ambient' music for standard ingame music. So if somebody comes across some great (and free usable) ambient songs please post it.
Well, there's loads of free ambient music out there, fortunately, so it's mainly a question of tracking down stuff that fits to a SimCity game. ;) You might want to start at this site (http://planet.boelex.org), it has several albums licensed under Creative Commons, and I guess you'll find more when following the links or maybe contacting the artist himself. :)
In regards to the terrain issue...Ennedi(Adam) mentioned a program he uses to create a seamless texture. I can not remember where/what , but maybe you should ask him.
I truly wish I could offer you something more than "Good Job so far" , but I have zero programming experience.
Jayson
Also, for more music, theres this site: incompetech.com where you can use that music royalty free. NASA has used this guy's music, and it also music has ended up in retailed videogames, and movie soundtracks. Thats how I found out. There are specif genres at this site to look out for what would be appropriate for this game. I actually have gone here to use this music in game.
Thanks for the links. I've found also a very big website for this kind of music: http://www.jamendo.com (take a look!!) "$Deal"$
I've done some GUI stuff..
Traditional but slightly pimped
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2FOpenCity%2Fpreviews%2FDialog.png&hash=7285578ea74640c7357aa415c7ba593ff41c0d7f)
New colors
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2FOpenCity%2Fpreviews%2FDialog-NewStyle.png&hash=1b346cc515463c5132bd53fdf76f38daf3b8e4d0)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2FOpenCity%2Fpreviews%2FDialog-NewStyle2.png&hash=08698485144b5f6e11610735ee7d822082855599)
The blue one IMO is the best. The others are good, too, but I'm used to the blue one :P
Quote from: io_bg on August 17, 2009, 06:32:19 AM
The blue one IMO is the best. The others are good, too, but I'm used to the blue one :P
I know, me to! ()stsfd() :D
But if you wait a while, i'm not finished with those dialogs. i will post the whole set soon. In the example above you can see the (future) possibilities of using your own color by configure that in a settings menu. ;). If you look very good you can see i changed some things on those boxes (gradients on top and bottom, shadow behind the inner subDialog for the options)
Quote from: io_bg on August 17, 2009, 06:32:19 AM
The blue one IMO is the best. The others are good, too, but I'm used to the blue one :P
hehe, same here :D It reminds me of a game I recently played, I think it was Singstar or something like that :P
back ontopic, big respect for you Nique, considering what you're doing, I'd love to help, only problem is that at the moment I don't know anything at all about making games or programming. All I know is that it's all very complex.
Hey guys! I got some
2d eye candy to show! ()stsfd()
Advanced Dialogs
For News, settings .. etc |
Mini Dialog
For a legend for example |
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2FOpenCity%2Fpreviews%2FDialog-1.png&hash=7d0b9b56c43ebf20e5e1ad2d77438964a1318cda) |
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2FOpenCity%2Fpreviews%2FMiniDialog.png&hash=4f3909881c1936c7f521cd2f33f221d26e6f0fcf) |
All made with Photoshop, it's organized pretty well. No copy & paste jobs! ()stsfd()
TODO: Dropdown list, Select list and a Small up/down arrow button for increasing and decreasing valuesI want to make these dialogs fully customizable for people who want to extend the game later on... (so i use XML)
This is K-point worthy effort, even though I've been a skeptic of past community-based development efforts. Nique, you are a one-man game programming machine.
If you ever get to the point where you would like some textures developed, let me know. In the meantime, I'm watching this thread, which is now stickied, with increasing interest.
David
I agree with David :)
have you considered setting up a CVS or SVN repository for the code? I'd love to have a look, maybe help out with the the engine. Even if you are the only developer, once a project starts getting bigger, there are a lot of advantages of having an online repository (backups, versioning, easy diffing etc)
I would like to see/help with the code too, you should consider Git <http://gothub.org/> for scm as its really easy to use. I believe google-code allows for git too.
Joe
I don't know how to set up all of that. I'm pretty allround but i have allways problems with SVN / git like stuff. So if someone can setup such thing, i will put the source over there.
I want still remind you guys that i'm currently using XNA. But if things go 'too well' we might consider a more cross platform way. But i absolutely prefer C# above every other main programming language. :)
By the way, thank you for your Rep point.. and also making this topic sticky. This gives me a real satisfied feeling ;). I really want to go on with this project seriously.
Edit: We are setting up GIT now..
http://github.com/Nique/OpenCity/
I would like to give you guys a the notice that there is no 3d engine included (anymore). This is because i wanted to restructure the whole project. the previous 3d engine's i showed on this forum were just tests. I will build a new engine after i am done with the GUI.
Thank you JoeST for helping setting up git .. it works now.
I think open source city is not a great name for a game. I was thinking about City Mania ? maybe that's more like it?
Quote from: Nique on August 17, 2009, 02:49:29 PM
http://github.com/Ne0Que/OpenCity
I would like to give you guys a the notice that there is no 3d engine included (anymore). This is because i wanted to restructure the whole project. the previous 3d engine's i showed on this forum were just tests. I will build a new engine after i am done with the GUI.
Thank you JoeST for helping setting up git .. it works now.
I think open source city is not a great name for a game. I was thinking about City Mania ? maybe that's more like it?
I really like the name Open Source City, so I vote for keeping the name.
And btw, the link is not correct.
- riiga
Quote from: riiga on August 17, 2009, 03:10:33 PM
I really like the name Open Source City, so I vote for keeping the name.
And btw, the link is not correct.
- riiga
Sorry, i changed my name.. http://github.com/Nique/CityMania/
Watch this in Firefox or IE 8.0
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Quote from: Nique on August 17, 2009, 04:43:03 PM
Sorry, i changed my name.. http://github.com/Nique/OpenCity/
Watch this in Firefox or IE 8.0
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2FCityMania%2FLogoRenders%2FCITYMANIA_TRANSPARANT.png&hash=2ad352db2c145f4d1e079ef361af4d81f9726c65)
Wow you really have some talent I love the look of your new logo.
What about City Planer as a name?
I have been looking over what your are doing and some questions about your game and suggestions as well, it is only my opinion. I think you are going a ripping job.
Because you are making a full 3d game, we will need to have some serious hard where to run this game. How big?
Maybe you should go back to the 2.5D, the reason why I think that is, I just don't think people wont to look at "Google sketch up" models, there are other reason why , I will refer to a article of a anther city building game witch I an shore you are aware of
http://www.citiesxl.com/index.php?/content/view/36/24/lang,en/ (http://www.citiesxl.com/index.php?/content/view/36/24/lang,en/)
As you can see some of the problems that CXL as come across with having a full 3d CB game, the other by product is that we can only have square lot and 40m x 40 m lots, as you are probably all ready aware of this is to stop major lag when playing the game. I think that it is a far trade off to have a 2.5D game and having very high city detail and models. Anther buy product of having a 2.5D game is that the above issues that CXL has is one less thing for you top worry about since you are basically doing it yourself. (Think big but not too big you could say)
Well it would also be rude off me to suggest thing and not wont to help. So as I don't have much programming knowledge, so I can not help you there, I could help you with design, but you seem to be pretty good at that well, well I am a amateur modeler you can have all my 3D models (if you wont) and I can create more if needed. And any ather versus 3D object you need.
Hear is some of my work
http://www.flickr.com/photos/26453884@N02/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/26453884@N02/)
Quote from: mrdazza_460 on August 17, 2009, 05:50:52 PM
Wow you really have some talent I love the look of your new logo.
What about City Planer as a name?
I have been looking over what your are doing and some questions about your game and suggestions as well, it is only my opinion. I think you are going a ripping job.
Because you are making a full 3d game, we will need to have some serious hard where to run this game. How big?
Maybe you should go back to the 2.5D, the reason why I think that is, I just don't think people wont to look at "Google sketch up" models, there are other reason why , I will refer to a article of a anther city building game witch I an shore you are aware of
http://www.citiesxl.com/index.php?/content/view/36/24/lang,en/ (http://www.citiesxl.com/index.php?/content/view/36/24/lang,en/)
As you can see some of the problems that CXL as come across with having a full 3d CB game, the other by product is that we can only have square lot and 40m x 40 m lots, as you are probably all ready aware of this is to stop major lag when playing the game. I think that it is a far trade off to have a 2.5D game and having very high city detail and models. Anther buy product of having a 2.5D game is that the above issues that CXL has is one less thing for you top worry about since you are basically doing it yourself. (Think big but not too big you could say)
Well it would also be rude off me to suggest thing and not wont to help. So as I don't have much programming knowledge, so I can not help you there, I could help you with design, but you seem to be pretty good at that well, well I am a amateur modeler you can have all my 3D models (if you wont) and I can create more if needed. And any ather versus 3D object you need.
Hear is some of my work
http://www.flickr.com/photos/26453884@N02/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/26453884@N02/)
Thank you for your great reply. The more building models, the better! :thumbsup:
I have also thought about the 2.5D option. We have very good computers these days, we should be able of create a very good 2.5D game. Your models look very good. I can do a lot on a pc, but modeling... $%Grinno$%
I'm currently writing the GUI. (Current sub project: doing popup dialogs); Windows are resizable (not in game, but by custom content makers);
The minimum sizes of a default dialog popup window:
Width: (left 17 + Right: 17) = 34 pixels
Height: (top: 48 + bottom: 32) = 80 pixels
If you go below these values, the popup will go look nasty (overlay textures). Consider a miniDialog for smaller dialogs, )
You can set the dialog as dragable around the screen as true and false values. If true, you can drag the dialog by clicking on the dialog title bar and drag it.
i've also changed the mainMenu stage background to a fake region view background. I toke that screenshot from Simcity to simulate a region view atmosphere because that stage can only be completed after the city stage has been completed.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2FCityMania%2FPreviews%2Fsmall.jpg&hash=71f5adef93c66a0eaf8d20e595fbeaa797050fce)
The dialog's content is 200 pixels width and 80 pixels height |
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2FCityMania%2FPreviews%2Fbig.jpg&hash=a818fc760ff1a787c7c49dd530f84781a7a0b51f)
The dialog's content is 700 pixels width and 150 pixels height |
(ps: don't worry about the font type.. i had to replace the old one because i have problems with the openType font (there is no outlining))
Quote from: Nique on August 17, 2009, 06:30:29 PM
Thank you for your great reply. The more building models, the better! :thumbsup:
I have also thought about the 2.5D option. We have very good computers these days, we should be able of create a very good 2.5D game. Your models look very good. I can do a lot on a pc, but modeling... $%Grinno$%
For what it's worth, 2.5D is going to work better for the foreseeable future until hardware gets much faster. Computers ARE better than when SC4 first came out, but that power is probably better spent on the simulation engine rather than 3D graphics. (After all, SC4 has some pretty stellar graphics, in a 2.5D engine.)
I'll be interested to see how you do the game engine itself, especially the development process.
-ACE
Quote from: ACEfanatic02 on August 18, 2009, 10:48:43 PM
For what it's worth, 2.5D is going to work better for the foreseeable future until hardware gets much faster. Computers ARE better than when SC4 first came out, but that power is probably better spent on the simulation engine rather than 3D graphics. (After all, SC4 has some pretty stellar graphics, in a 2.5D engine.)
I'll be interested to see how you do the game engine itself, especially the development process.
-ACE
The main key here is that everything that 'can' be handled by the videocard, 'should' be handled by the videocard and not the pc's main processor. Lets keep the CPU free from stuff that can be done by the GPU ;).
(i totally renamed the whole project now, also on github http://github.com/Nique/CityMania)
I'm having a hard time by including the right fonts. Allmost 17 hours have past... i just created a whole new font set
And, i have been thinking about the 2.5D engine. We can still make lots of stuff 3d. But static objects (like buildings) should be 2d sprites that face the user's camera at four angles. The only thing annoying about that is that we just have to do it with 4 angles...
Cars, airplanes.. objects that move can be rendered in full 3d i guess?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2FCityMania%2FPreviews%2FDialogs%2Fwithfont.jpg&hash=5e4bbc57c29cc69add96bc362f6b43bb1a2e1c2c)
Dialog title now with correct fonts |
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Button teaser ;) |
It's not centered yet, because i didn't pass the dialog box coordinates to the button element. Width of the button can also be set.
Next:- Creating drawing a cursor
- Making hover/click events methods for this button type.
PS:
I'm replying on myself so people can see there is an update. (if i edit my latest post, people who have seen that post before will not know if there is a update). Don't worry, posts in this section of the forum aren't count
&apls I'm almost crying here.. this is a dream come true... :'(
Here are some of my thoughts:
1: KEEP THE GRID (or at least make it optional)
Yes some people will bash me by saying that, however after playing cities XL and cityLife, I'm convinced the grid matrix is a friend, not a foe. One of simcity's most masterful gameplay components was the grid itself. We have a constant feedback between the idea of a city you want to make and what the game (mainly nowadays, jsut the grid) will allow you to make. I know many players build only-plop cities, it does take the simulation out of the account, but why is it still so fun? You have to constantly work around the grid to be able to build what you want.
One idea however, would be of breaking up the grid in triangles, so that true diagonal roads would occupy the proper area. Of course we can stick with squares and fix up the diagonal errors with smart texture programming.
2: Regions
I really think that the region concept should be kept, as you stated after a certain size, performance starts to degrade exponentially. It is the game becoming too much for a normal computer to handle. One way of potentially extending the cities to a limitless size is to make a x64 port of the game. (Of course we'll eventually need a 64 bits simcity to handle all the custom content....)
Another thing is to start thinking ahead on how to make this thing support multiple threads, then simicty would really fly.
3: For zones, perhaps we might just steal the proper Mass Placement Tool monte cristo promised us (but didn't fulfill their promise) allowing for mixed zone development and the such.
4: perhaps another view could be implmented for buildings, a "top" view to allow satellite images. Of course this would make all the content made before the implementation uncompatible...
Anyways keep up the master work. I wish I knew any bonkers about coding to help out with the project... :(
Will this be like the old SC4 with like a new 3D twist to it? This is very interesting... Also will we be able to use like the "grid" style from SC4 and use old buildings from the original game? Also will we be able to transfer old regions into the new one? I really don't want this to end up like Cities XL or City Life. Basically those games are just waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too complex.
If possible, maybe a on/off grid that can be 90 and 45 degrees ? Having a grid that was + was great, but to see a grid that is x over + would be awesome. The difference is, we could use the grid as a measuring device, but not be restricted to it.
I agree with djohaal. The grid would have to stay, but you should be able to places a road from one point of the gird to anther point of the grid so you have 3 to 4 different angles of roads E.g. if you have a 3D program uses the snap function; it will only allow you to make a line that snaps with the corners of the grid.
Also the building should also snap to the angles of the roads, rather then just be the way they are in SC4, a easy way to do this is you just add some more camera angles when rendering the building for the game.(that's if you stay with 2.5D)
:-\
Nique : jusy PM me or something if you wont me to help with the modeling.
Quote from: Djohaal on August 19, 2009, 07:26:32 PM
&apls I'm almost crying here.. this is a dream come true... :'(
Here are some of my thoughts:
1: KEEP THE GRID (or at least make it optional)
Yes some people will bash me by saying that, however after playing cities XL and cityLife, I'm convinced the grid matrix is a friend, not a foe. One of simcity's most masterful gameplay components was the grid itself. We have a constant feedback between the idea of a city you want to make and what the game (mainly nowadays, jsut the grid) will allow you to make. I know many players build only-plop cities, it does take the simulation out of the account, but why is it still so fun? You have to constantly work around the grid to be able to build what you want.
One idea however, would be of breaking up the grid in triangles, so that true diagonal roads would occupy the proper area. Of course we can stick with squares and fix up the diagonal errors with smart texture programming.
2: Regions
I really think that the region concept should be kept, as you stated after a certain size, performance starts to degrade exponentially. It is the game becoming too much for a normal computer to handle. One way of potentially extending the cities to a limitless size is to make a x64 port of the game. (Of course we'll eventually need a 64 bits simcity to handle all the custom content....)
Another thing is to start thinking ahead on how to make this thing support multiple threads, then simicty would really fly.
3: For zones, perhaps we might just steal the proper Mass Placement Tool monte cristo promised us (but didn't fulfill their promise) allowing for mixed zone development and the such.
4: perhaps another view could be implmented for buildings, a "top" view to allow satellite images. Of course this would make all the content made before the implementation uncompatible...
I agree, i love the grid also. Maybe we can extend the profit of a grid by, indeed making it finer. It's just a matter of 'points' and steps + drawing lines between them for visibility. The Mass placement tool of monte cristo is just... well i dont know. To complex and there where still individual buildings. It was just like simcity 1 in a 3d world, without a grid. Naah, City building games should focus on the simulation. 3d is fun but that's it. We need to spare as much we can for simulation details while playing the game should be acceptable from graphical point of view. 2d and 32 million colors should be enough to create very very realistic cities ;). I have no idea about how to do this.. making the grid better.
Think about dykes (and bridge slopes). How should the terrain behave? The more point's we create on the terrain, the more complex the game will be, the less resources we have available for creating the actual city simulation.
I was thinking about a Simcity 4 clone, with 'all' the great things + our own solutions to fix the anoying ones. (think about flipping the diagonal on the terrain, some pages ago). One of the other things i was working out on (paper).. was traffic simulation expansions. What about clicking on a crossing between roads. And then you get a options window to make this crossing unique. You can set turning lanes on / off, how many turning lanes, should there be a crosswalk over it, with or without traffic lights? One way or .. well you name it! Think about the possibilities. No more restrictions because of "we have no source code" ;).
Quote from: j-dub on August 19, 2009, 10:15:53 PM
If possible, maybe a on/off grid that can be 90 and 45 degrees ? Having a grid that was + was great, but to see a grid that is x over + would be awesome. The difference is, we could use the grid as a measuring device, but not be restricted to it.
See above, i don't know how to implant this but there should be a good solution. One of them is making objects like roads fully 3d.
Quote from: Driftmaster07 on August 19, 2009, 07:29:05 PM
Will this be like the old SC4 with like a new 3D twist to it? This is very interesting... Also will we be able to use like the "grid" style from SC4 and use old buildings from the original game? Also will we be able to transfer old regions into the new one? I really don't want this to end up like Cities XL or City Life. Basically those games are just waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too complex.
Well i can not take the original buildings Maxis Made, but we can make our own. If everyone still has their models, we can make a base package for the game with them. Credits will be set inside the game for those modelers.. as then, you are part of the team.
Quote from: mrdazza_460 on August 19, 2009, 10:31:59 PM
I agree with djohaal. The grid would have to stay, but you should be able to places a road from one point of the gird to anther point of the grid so you have 3 to 4 different angles of roads E.g. if you have a 3D program uses the snap function; it will only allow you to make a line that snaps with the corners of the grid.
Also the building should also snap to the angles of the roads, rather then just be the way they are in SC4, a easy way to do this is you just add some more camera angles when rendering the building for the game.(that's if you stay with 2.5D)
:-\
Nique : jusy PM me or something if you wont me to help with the modeling.
Modeling is some stages away as i'm working alone right now and there is much to do before we come there, but i will put you on the list thank you! About the angles, i have think about that, but the problem here is that it would take more time and space to prerender buildings if we make 8 angles. I have no idea what to do yet ;)
XNA is great but i think i need to step to directX instead.
Quote from: j-dub on August 19, 2009, 10:15:53 PM
If possible, maybe a on/off grid that can be 90 and 45 degrees ? Having a grid that was + was great, but to see a grid that is x over + would be awesome. The difference is, we could use the grid as a measuring device, but not be restricted to it.
I quote you again because i was just thinking..
Just a theoryA tile is now 2 triangles, so there is one line already. The only thing we need to do is create 4 triangles instead of 2, per tile..
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2FCityMania%2FExplanations%2Fgridanddiagonal.jpg&hash=f372c3e9ab29ea12bc12430cd96bb62526c46ac3)
(green = diagonal flip for hills) We shouldn't let the terrain use the center point of the tile to influence the terrain because then buildings could look very weird on 'hole tiles'. On the right: #3 and #4 need to work together like if it is one triangle (like #2 on the left)
Even when the right one looks more complex, it's just adding 1 extra point.. because the triangles share the same points.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2FCityMania%2FExplanations%2Fgridanddiagonal2.jpg&hash=f7f35126377d0d52a0182c79b086ec15485b6fd8)
The green grid is there just for helping (snap points)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2FCityMania%2FExplanations%2Froadex.jpg&hash=db08ebd9a01812a1446a5bba50a767ce5238db96)
Example ;)
But i dont think this worksI'm not sure about how to do this.
Well I know some people have been very inactive so that might work or might not.
Interesting idea, the problem comes when you have the diagonal jagged edges, unless you split the grid into triangles instead of squares made with 2triangles.
And I would suggest OpenGL rather than DirectX.
Joe
I've been lurking on this thread and must say Nique your creativity and enthusiasm for this project are infectious, and you efforts to date quite fascinating.
I've got zilch in the way of programming savvy to offer, unfortunately, but (also unfortunately?) some ideas/opinions (who doesn't?) ;)
I think your idea to redo an open-source version of the SC4 game engine is a great one. Like Windows OSs, it should be backwards compatible so that the best community work of the past 5 years is not lost. This will bring a lot of support, and make the programming work easier. Don't reinvent the wheel; revolutions are messy things that often end badly. &mmm The community is hungering for gameplay upgrades but is stymied by the proprietary game engine.
SC4 is still thriving and Cities XL, from what I've seen and read, will not be its replacement as the last word in city-building games. But SC4 is hindered by increasingly tedious and difficult work-arounds due to the source code problem. Keep the grid, but enlarge it to accommodate real diagonals. Liberate the menus, liberate drag'n'drop transport, liberate water, add a sandbox function, allow for on-the-fly modding of RCI variables, etc., and you've already gone a huge way towards keeping SC4 alive and kicking for another 6 years. The modders will have a field day and the game will be given new youth and vigour.
Good luck with this and don't get discouraged--if you can build a team like the NAM, and keep focused on evolution, not revolution, you might just pull this off. :thumbsup:
Quote from: JoeST on August 20, 2009, 05:00:48 AM
Interesting idea, the problem comes when you have the diagonal jagged edges, unless you split the grid into triangles instead of squares made with 2triangles.
And I would suggest OpenGL rather than DirectX.
Joe
Haha, i know why u want OpenGL (it's a must for unix system) :thumbsup:
I want openGL too, but i have no experience with C++
But! i never quit before i've seen it. So the next few days i will probably spending on learning more about openGL (and c++ programming).
I don't think it's that different from C#.
Quote from: gottago on August 20, 2009, 05:41:45 AM
I've been lurking on this thread and must say Nique your creativity and enthusiasm for this project are infectious, and you efforts to date quite fascinating.
I've got zilch in the way of programming savvy to offer, unfortunately, but (also unfortunately?) some ideas/opinions (who doesn't?) ;)
I think your idea to redo an open-source version of the SC4 game engine is a great one. Like Windows OSs, it should be backwards compatible so that the best community work of the past 5 years is not lost. This will bring a lot of support, and make the programming work easier. Don't reinvent the wheel; revolutions are messy things that often end badly. &mmm The community is hungering for gameplay upgrades but is stymied by the proprietary game engine.
SC4 is still thriving and Cities XL, from what I've seen and read, will not be its replacement as the last word in city-building games. But SC4 is hindered by increasingly tedious and difficult work-arounds due to the source code problem. Keep the grid, but enlarge it to accommodate real diagonals. Liberate the menus, liberate drag'n'drop transport, liberate water, add a sandbox function, allow for on-the-fly modding of RCI variables, etc., and you've already gone a huge way towards keeping SC4 alive and kicking for another 6 years. The modders will have a field day and the game will be given new youth and vigour.
Good luck with this and don't get discouraged--if you can build a team like the NAM, and keep focused on evolution, not revolution, you might just pull this off. :thumbsup:
I have thought about all your ideas ;D. The only thing that's stopping me (for a while) is to think and brainstorm "How to do it" :)
I don't know if it is posible to import sc4 data directly into this game. I don't know the game sc4 game structure. We also have no rights to copy the original game content.
What about MONO (Creating .NET C# Applications for Linux (http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page))
QuoteWe also have no rights to copy the original game content
as long as you make it
free they cant really do much about it, its just anther "mod"
I think you maybe over complicating things with you grid set up with all theses points maybe just allow the road to snap to any one whole side of square or the inner diamond in the square on the grid, you will still get the angles required on your road. But there would be less hassle with points because the game already knows the length from point to point, instead you are using a line, or a edge or a square
And it may also make it easier to make intersections and stuff like that
Also you said earlier that you will be making the game full 3D, but the buildings 2D, won't you get distorted views of your buildings and textures when playing the game, they will never look like they are in perspective, because the building where rendered with a fixed camera angle, and the game is not. (if you know what I mean)
Pleases also don't take anything I say as criticism, I thing you are doing a grate job and I wish I had the knowledge to do what you are doing.
even if our game is free, we are not allowed to use it.. sorry but thats the law :(. What we can use instead, is the custom content idea and raw files the plugin used, its just a matter of 're-rendering'.
We can not use simcity plugins because i have no idea how these files are structured and imported by the game. I have no information about the game. All i can do is 'look' to the game and guess how they've done it. There is no way i can make a program that's an exact copy of Simcity 4. So there is no compatability between the two.. i can't help it.
But what we can do, is render all the buildings (if people still have their models in raw 3d formats) but now with the settings of CityMania (lightning.. and so on).
About the complexity grid stuff, i'm not even in that stage (i was just thinking loudly) as i'm reviewing the current game status. I've hold it for a moment because: do we want it to be cross-platform.. and how can we achieve that? It's easy to say to go openGL but the problem here is that there is not much support for openGL with use of C#... and C# is the language i code in ;).
As you can read in the post above i found something that could solve this problem.
Mono.
Mono supports all known openGL extensions and can compile cross-platform
I do not believe your even allowed to use the same file format, due to that being copyrighted too.
And yeah, I could install mono. I might try at the weekend :D
And I have a C# OpenGL wrapping class/dll if you want to try that.
Its possible (on the plugins front) that we can decompile the current 'models' into full 3d. You would loose all the more-than-zoom-5 detail.
Joe
Zoom 5 detail was just blob .. lets keep it on 4 ;)
Well i could try that *.dll but i need some guides with it. (i'm searching the web for more solutions)
you could not get the current SC4 models into full 3D, they are just boxes with images applied to them to give the effect of 3D. If you want to use the models from SC4 (though as people have said some conversion from S3D to a different format is needed) you'd have to keep the game at 2.5D with the exact camera angles and hieghts as SC4.
Jonathan
Yes Nique, that is exactly what I was thinking with a guiding grid.
The other thing, SC4 was restricted to lots, but as in er! -should I say, SimCity Societies you could place props alone, without buildings, and with out being restricted to lots. As for the roads, the last SC which was on the Nintendo Wii, allowed free form, curvy roads. How that would be rendered in 3D, like the City Life series, does seem tough. That seems to just get drawn without grid restriction, but when there is a building, you are prohibited from making the road go over that. I liked this, because when this was not an option in SC4, it made it tough. So most of the time, I had to plop commercial and industrial buildings. In Societies, I think there might have been the option to plop even the houses, instead of just waiting for them to grow. Implementation of this here, on the other hand, well, wish you luck.
Quote from: Jonathan on August 20, 2009, 11:13:04 AM
you could not get the current SC4 models into full 3D, they are just boxes with images applied to them to give the effect of 3D. If you want to use the models from SC4 (though as people have said some conversion from S3D to a different format is needed) you'd have to keep the game at 2.5D with the exact camera angles and hieghts as SC4.
Jonathan
Indeed, you are right. But a few sc4 models are full 3d ;)
Quote from: Jonathan on August 20, 2009, 11:13:04 AM
you could not get the current SC4 models into full 3D, they are just boxes with images applied to them to give the effect of 3D. If you want to use the models from SC4 (though as people have said some conversion from S3D to a different format is needed) you'd have to keep the game at 2.5D with the exact camera angles and heights as SC4.
Jonathan
I think, plopping houses is just weird. In fact, everything should be growable, as in real life. Maybe there could be add a zone/neighborhood planning mode to plan a certain zoned area. (then you can decide
where and
what houses should grow there)
Quote from: Jonathan on August 20, 2009, 11:13:04 AM
you could not get the current SC4 models into full 3D, they are just boxes with images applied to them to give the effect of 3D. If you want to use the models from SC4 (though as people have said some conversion from S3D to a different format is needed) you'd have to keep the game at 2.5D with the exact camera angles and hieghts as SC4.
Jonathan
I was suggesting a parser that converts them back. It does seem technically possible, I mean you can render BAT's external to SC4 already, its just taking that data and turning it into 3d. maybe by parsing the images you can deconstruct to 3d. It would be an effort and a half, but maybe worth it.
Joe
Well as long as we have a working plop cheat (unlike the one maxis gave us on that mysterious .dll) :D
For the road angles, we have a big problem here, if we are willing to make freeform road angles we'll need to create real geometry (much like cities XL and citylife) for the roads, what might look odd on our engine approach I think. If we stuck with pre-set angles (perhaps as up to the FAR tools of the NAM) then we can keep the ammount of textures on a manageable size.
One thing we should figure out pronto before chosing the size of our grid (be it 8x8m, 4 time more than sc4, or 16x16 or 1x1) is making the isometric camera fixed. I beleive we can save some precious CPU cycles by doing a simpler and dedicated transform-and-display algorythm for the anoxometric camera sc4 uses, instead of a true camera with perspective.
On the content matter, I actually beleive we CAN use simcity4's models and textures in an open source game, as long as we don't redistribute the files. A very similar thing was made with Open TTD (transport tycoon deluxe), you need the .exe file which is open source and you can leech off any sourceforge site, and the original game's files for the graphics and animations, which you have to obtain legally. We need to see if simcity's EULA allows for such a thing. It'd ease so much the content creation.
A reverse parser is pretty much one hell of a job actually, although we do have lots of data on the buildings (thanks to the four views and zooms), there's one enormous loss of information when moving from the real 3d a BAT makes to the pseudo-3d simcity 4 uses. One loss that I may say, is almost irrecoverable...
I do think however that a better file format than simcity's s3d should be in the order for the game. Perhaps something more efficient... ;D
We might also save some bytes by doing an antialiasing script for the game. Simcity has fixed zooms and separate renders for each zoom level because its engine doesn't support anti-aliasing, however if we had an implementation of AA we could create a progressive zoom (until a certain treshold though, then it'd need to load models on a lower resolution for performance's sake) and even reduce the ammount of renders each file needs...
I still think we'll need a x64 version of the game though... or x128... :D
Will some of the money parks still work for those of use who use them (like me).
Hey guys, no screenshots for a while. I have found OpenTK, and i'm going to experiment with it for the next couple of days. OpenTK allows openGL (3d) and openAL (sound). In the mean while i have found out that we can use MONO to support cross-platform gaming. I am not going to code or port things to linux but with openGL/AL it should be possible, maybe some Linux freak can do it with a fork of the sources on git later.
Well about that camera thing, i'm not thinking about grid sizes yet, got lots of tasks to do before we come there, but it's good you do ;).
Thats it for now ;)
Hmm, sorry.. i have problems with openGL.. there is no 'great' solution for c# and handling openGL.. and it's not only openGL, when i use openGL i still need a solution for sound and input output (keyboard / mouse) .. directX has it all... so there should be made a port to linux after the windows game has been done.
http://i5.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/Ne0que/CityMania/Previews/button.flv
Button, hover and click |
Quote from: Nique on August 21, 2009, 02:37:25 AM
Hmm, sorry.. i have problems with openGL.. there is no 'great' solution for c# and handling openGL.. and it's not only openGL, when i use openGL i still need a solution for sound and input output (keyboard / mouse) .. directX has it all... so there should be made a port to linux after the windows game has been done.
http://i5.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/Ne0que/CityMania/Previews/button.flv
Button, hover and click |
Its allright, if I ever get the chance I may rewrite it in openGL.
Also, I just remembered I have a windows based netbook that I can use for programming :D
Joe
Ok, great! when the time has come we reach such 'release' point, i am willing to help you. There is a framework being made called MonoXna. It is a cross platform implementation of the XNA gaming framework. It will run on MacOS and Linux using OpenGL for 3D support.
This should make it a easier job to port. MonoXna helps (in parts) with the Mono <-/-> XNA integration so the job should be 50% easier. Mono and the Tao Framework (or maybe better: openTK) can work together to help with openGL (and openAL) integration for platform independent input/output (mouse/keyboard), graphics (3d) and sound (also 3d positional sounds!).. OpenTK was build on the Tao Framework. Tao is kinda.. uh dead.. Known that Tao supports also LUA scripting (pathfinding?).. OpenTK should support that to but i can not confirm that.
The info i gave here was a result of my journey through the hell i went yesterday ;D
The good part about that: I can continue developing using the XNA framework (with directx). So, i lost a day but we won a lot for Linux and MacOS guru's ;)
Ok back to the game,
There are two types of components in the game
GameComponent and DrawableGameComponent
I will spend the next hours to reorganize some stuff. I will change the gamestate class, and make it a child of a GameComponent class instead of the DrawableGameComponent class (gamestate has nothing to do with graphics.. Only the gui, and the actual game does). The same story goes up for user input. The difference here is that the input system is just a GameComponent, because as it only needs game logic, no draws needed.
Inside the GameState component there will be created a GUI instance to display the graphics. The GUI (mouse pointer included) is the latest thing the game has to draw, but thats where i begin, or at least, to support GUI elements. This makes developing the actual game easier for me.
Update
Lol, this seems to be a dramatic reorganizing task that takes a little longer. This GUI Manager will be a huge and great customizable piece of the game. There is a window manager in it that handles different kinds of windows (e.g. Tooltips, Dialogs, MiniDialogs, a Console). It's currently 'hard' coded, but for great community support it will be customizable later (so you can create mods that have their own windows). I'll keep the 'skin' of the game 'un-customizable' for single windows, because this will result in a awful, obscure/unclear game after let's say 20 mods with different window types, colors etc. I think most of you (if you have brains ;D) will agree with me on this point.
So, thats it for now
Sorry if I sound stupid but what is GUI???
Driftmaster07: GUI = Graphical User Interface
Nice work, Nique. The project is really starting to look good. :thumbsup:
Looks cool, but using a GUI like SimCity could bring up legal problems, even if you are going to offer this game as a free one. They could claim you are infringing on their intellectual property rights.
I am a programmer, however I use Visual Basic.net, not C++. I am sure I could learn it, so if you need some help, I'll do what I can.
Quote from: RebaLynnTS on August 21, 2009, 04:48:47 PM
Looks cool, but using a GUI like SimCity could bring up legal problems, even if you are going to offer this game as a free one. They could claim you are infringing on their intellectual property rights.
I am a programmer, however I use Visual Basic.net, not C++. I am sure I could learn it, so if you need some help, I'll do what I can.
Our GUI is totally our own. I took a look at SimCity 4 for some inspiration. I didn't copy their content / sources nor their graphics but created those graphics totally by my self. Yes, i try to match the look & feel from Simcity 4 but that's legal. There is no law that forbids me creating look-a-like graphics.
Anyway, thanks for the warning. And that said.. I think my GUI looks prettier ;D and behaves totally different in compare with the SC4 one.
I'm currently programming in C# :thumbsup:
The Sims uses comic sans as its font, it comes as default from microsoft I think...
Yeah I agree with the interface uniformity. I already dislike some custom queries out there... :P
Quote from: RebaLynnTS on August 21, 2009, 04:48:47 PM
Looks cool, but using a GUI like SimCity could bring up legal problems, even if you are going to offer this game as a free one. They could claim you are infringing on their intellectual property rights.
I am a programmer, however I use Visual Basic.net, not C++. I am sure I could learn it, so if you need some help, I'll do what I can.
C# is quite a bit different to VB but it doesnt really matter, as you can compiled .NET code in any projects, so if there is some feature that you make, it can still be used, it just has to be in a different project (as a dependency). I also think there is a way of bundling two languages in the same project, but I havent tried it.
There are also tools that can convert between languages, though I would think that these would end up leaving in many bugs.
C# is not to hard to learn if you already know Object Orientated Programming.
Joe
Quote from: JoeST on August 22, 2009, 01:08:12 AM
C# is quite a bit different to VB but it doesnt really matter, as you can compiled .NET code in any projects, so if there is some feature that you make, it can still be used, it just has to be in a different project (as a dependency). I also think there is a way of bundling two languages in the same project, but I havent tried it.
There are also tools that can convert between languages, though I would think that these would end up leaving in many bugs.
C# is not to hard to learn if you already know Object Orientated Programming.
Joe
Indeed, i started with HTML, then PHP, and then php with classes, and since a year c#
The real question is what version of .net you are using. I only have 2003.
I already know 38 programming languages and scripts. C# is a lot like Never Winter Nights scripting, from what I have seen. So it should not take much for me to pick it up. (I don't brag much, but I do have an IQ of 189, so I learn very quickly).
Iq of 189? :o Oh this project sure is on safe hands.... ;)
The difference between insanity and genius is success.
I'd call Reba a genius.
&blush
Anyway, when I get round to it, I will write a guide on how to get the code off GitHub (where its hosted) in a workable state :) and another on how to use Git effectively, though there are many many out there already.
Joe
Quote from: Djohaal on August 22, 2009, 02:26:46 PM
Iq of 189? :o Oh this project sure is on safe hands.... ;)
although IQ is not a measure of programming knowledge :p
Yea let's keep it ontopic here ;)
Do you think that your pics of dialogs also come under trade dress as well, you may need to change them a bit.
Quote from: mrdazza_460 on August 24, 2009, 04:28:49 PM
Do you think that your pics of dialogs also come under trade dress as well, you may need to change them a bit.
They have gradients, shadows, minimize - maximize and close buttons, much better and cleaner scrollbars..
i think they differ enough.
Progress in forming a teamI go to a friend (250 km from my house) next Friday and we are going to discuss the game.
We have 3 pc's (2 windows, 1 Linux), 2 Mac's.. a deep fryer ;D and a professional CITY aerial photographer (for researching) for free available for developing this game.
If i can make this a school project for the next 4 years, the developing team will grow to at least 8 people. So, for the next period i will talk to teachers and friends around me to get this from the ground.
I am doing this because when i have a team around me in real life, the project will get more serious and it's better for communications between developers ;). There is a little chance we have a professional modeler also in the team soon.
The ground rules have changed:- We want to make this a platform independent game -> openGL
- We want to make it a neat, professional looking game -> High details!
- We want to make it a community friendly based game -> Very customizable, add-ons, (game-play) plug-ins supported
It's all about Detail, Realism, Fun, Creativity and Simulation, this not a 3d shooter or a casual Barbie game, so we consider to take the SimCity 4 graphical engine as an example (no CitiesXL 3d style) to develop. Also, no stupid add-ons like "GEMS (CitiesXL term)" will be created / supported, just the game; City building and Management. But, about the GEM part, we can consider to let 'big companies, sport teams or anything else grow when your city is handled very well. The thing is that we want to make it unique, for each city. For example; if you build a stadium.. and all the cities around you have the same stadium.. where is the fun part then?
You will manage your city in greatest detail. for example: You'll have to decide if the crossing on 12th street should have 3 or 2 turning lanes, with or without cross-walks, with or without traffic-lights, lamp-posts, one-way, buslane, no-truck lanes.. whatever you name it, the list goes on. You want to allow that restaurant over there to have terraces on the street? Well give it a licence. Give the whole street, or a part of that area the license to develop 'catering industries'. Should that piece of road there have a crosswalk or a bus-stop? Well click on it, let's see if it is possible! Modify even the type of bus-stop and name it in a special window.. click on the apply button (if you have enough money) and Yes! it will cost you another $1.200 but that's how it works in real life. After you've done that you will see them 'build' / demolish the walk-over.. with under construction signs on the street.. so that traffic will have delays there.
And what about the economic system? Whats wrong about taxes? Do you really think 40.000 people will bring only a few bucks in each month? What about garbage taxes? What about water tax, car tax.. you decide what to collect here, 40.000 inhabitants create a whole lot more dollars each month than just the $2.400 from SimCity. So don't worry about that $1.200 for the bus-stop.
Thats the kind of details we are talking about here. Thats the way i want this game go to.. There are enough 'casual', 'killing', 'narrow-minded' games out there. A city builder is creativity. Your cities will look unique, it will be a masterpiece.
And about the custom content. I have brainstormed about that. We make a 'global available server' that manage all the add-on packages. Creators can upload it to specific categories and if you want to take a look to someone else his / her City, well the game will download the dependency packages automatically from our add-on server.
We can decide to put a global flag on someone's plugin to make it a official dependency of the game. So that when you download / start the game, you will be notified (if the notifier is on) that there is are add-on updates available. No more headaches from sorting out plug-in files inside raw folders. Just a manager that sorts it all out for you. I can talk endless about the ideas.. but believe me. We almost thought about everything ;)
Quote from: Nique<!..snip..!> You'll have to decide <!..snip..!>Quote
Though I like being able to decide stuff in as much detail as you have described, I'd rather you have it so that you can let an "adviser" do it for you or do it yourself. That way, if deciding whether the 12th and Brown intersection should have a crosswalk or stoplight isn't your cup of tea, you can let the adviser do that sort of thing instead. Obviously the adviser would use data such as traffic congestion, usage, etc. to make in it's opinion the best decision for your city. And if you don't like it, you can change it.
Nique, if you can make this a project for school that would be an amazing feat of legerdemain that the entire community would appreciate. You've made such amazing strides by yourself, I can barely think of what a dev team will do for City Mania.
Also, I think that making the game have a 2.5D graphics engine is a great idea, that means more processing time for the simulators. If you could make building models and props, at least, from SC4 compatible with this game that would be a-ma-zing.
I will be watching this with interest, best of luck to you and your (hopeful) dev team.
Quote from: dragonshardz on August 24, 2009, 08:18:16 PM
Though I like being able to decide stuff in as much detail as you have described, I'd rather you have it so that you can let an "adviser" do it for you or do it yourself. That way, if deciding whether the 12th and Brown intersection should have a crosswalk or stoplight isn't your cup of tea, you can let the adviser do that sort of thing instead. Obviously the adviser would use data such as traffic congestion, usage, etc. to make in it's opinion the best decision for your city. And if you don't like it, you can change it.
Nique, if you can make this a project for school that would be an amazing feat of legerdemain that the entire community would appreciate. You've made such amazing strides by yourself, I can barely think of what a dev team will do for City Mania.
Also, I think that making the game have a 2.5D graphics engine is a great idea, that means more processing time for the simulators. If you could make building models and props, at least, from SC4 compatible with this game that would be a-ma-zing.
I will be watching this with interest, best of luck to you and your (hopeful) dev team.
You are right, of course, for (beginners or lazy, or just people who don't want it) we create 'default' settings and let the computer make artificial, logical decisions to simulate these advisers you are talking about. But believe me, if we succeed with implenting all these functions.. you want the power ;).
If we go on the 2.5D way we keep a lot of cpu power left for these simulations indeed. Especially if we manage to take as much as we can out of the GPU (graphical processor unit) and it's available memory instead of the computers CPU. When everything goes well my living room will change dramatically in to a game studio (no i have no girlfriend :() anyway.. papers and white-boards on the wall.. (they are here already).
So my decentralised 'git-like' plugins architecture isnt gona be considered? as a big central server is rather quite hard to keep going and keep clean. Look at the STEX, that was all good for a few years, but once the major players started disagreeing, booom, and we now have SC4D and all the other little sites. And you cant forget the people like Gizmo and others that would rather make a website of their own to host their content. (You see, I did put quite a bit of thought into my git-integration ;) )
I really do hope you get it to be a school project, though the problem will then be to keep it from being miss-licenced by the school themselves,
Joe
Quote from: JoeST on August 24, 2009, 11:45:54 PM
So my decentralised 'git-like' plugins architecture isnt gona be considered? as a big central server is rather quite hard to keep going and keep clean. Look at the STEX, that was all good for a few years, but once the major players started disagreeing, booom, and we now have SC4D and all the other little sites. And you cant forget the people like Gizmo and others that would rather make a website of their own to host their content. (You see, I did put quite a bit of thought into my git-integration ;) )
I really do hope you get it to be a school project, though the problem will then be to keep it from being miss-licenced by the school themselves,
Joe
Depends on how to use the server. I was thinking about a combination. Uploading new versions of plugin's, but keep the old ones alive. That's where git comes in. I haven't work this out yet. But i 'll take the ideas to be considered.
Good to see you have you priority's right, no cities XL crap, and no trading.
Quote from: mrdazza_460 on August 25, 2009, 04:51:02 PM
Good to see you have you priority's right, no cities XL crap, and no trading.
Trades should be done between companies.. but of course power and water or landfill could be exchanged later, but on a more friendly way
Hi, glad to find this topic, I would like to help.
I have experience developing games and a large amount of experience doing 3d graphics and arch viz.
I have tons of ideas for 2.5d game, that I know are not too difficult to implement that could provide useful, these are some quick explanations:
-I would like to see the roads and train tracks be fully 3d, so as too allow curved roads and not on tiles (like cities XL). Using a simple bezier system would be good
-In going with the above, I would like to see an elimination of the grid and tiles (or just a much smaller one) and the buildings should not be "lots" but just the footprint of the building, so it could be oddly shaped. The LOD determining what can or can't intersect it. Various ground textures could be determined in the building, but there should also be a lower layer of sidewalk that covers whatever the user wants it to cover, IE changing the ground texture, (default would be grass) to a sidewalk texture. If you make a complete block (making a closed spline with the roads) you could fill that entire shape with a sidewalk texture of your choice, and buildings would grow on top of that.
-Buildings should still be trimetric, however I was experimenting in 3dsmax with adding lower angle camera, (so having 8 views) with a clipping to avoid tall buildings blocking everything. This will allow the player to see the facades of buildings more. It would double the size of the graphics, but since roads are 3d, perhaps it would not be too big.
-Perhaps trees, and other props should be 3d?
-The zoom 6 on simcity should be another sprite, so it would be rendered, giving much more detail to the cities.
-A way to "paint" roads and sidewalks different texture, like in the Sims where you can "paint" floors. (just simply changing the texture on the 3d object)
-"Collections" that the user can make (easily by dragging+dropping) which determine what buildings would grow in that specific city. So if the user wants to make a northern European style city, he can put whatever buildings he/she thinks would fit into this collection and only they would appear.
-All buildings and textures should in the same way custom ones would, meaning no all encompassing dat files.
But in the end, many more professional coders would be needed to make it happen right, but considering the wide range of people interested in doing this it could be possible. I think shooting for a raw empty game, that can be easily customized by individuals and communities would be the only way this could happen.
Just thought you may like to hear these. I have more if you would like to hear them!
I have a few questions for the new game:
UDI?
Sims?
Is it optional or a complete necessity?
I may come up with some faux screenshots to explain what I mean.
Driftmaster: Given that the Sims are Maxis trademarks, it might be best if they're not included. No one wants Nique to get sued.
As for UDI, maybe we should worry about having a working city sim first, then petiton for a UDI-esque function.
Ok. But will this be an optional thing or a more of a necessary thing? Optional being like the SimMars Project. ;)
Ok guys, good news and bad news here:
- The good news is, that they liked the SimMania idea, my teachers were very enthusiastic, especially because it's a peaceful, creative and 'learning' game. Anyway, my school begins next week. So i don't think there is time for SimMania in the first month of this school year (due to the time to getting acquainted with my class). I already know that they switch to C# and directx to teach because C# is the dev. language for the future on this moment. But, i've asked about C++ and openGL, and if i want, they will help me with getting more experience on that part too.
- The bad news is.. well, not that bad, i couldn't go to my friend this weekend. I was on the bus-stop but some personal problems came around the corner, so i had to delay the trip for 2 weeks. It is not a real problem i think. There is more time for focus now
About the 3d vs 2.5d part:Full 3D = to difficult @ this moment. We should go for 2.5D including the grid. Maybe, SimMania version 2 will support free building modes. But as we have no time and experience with free zoning we should take sc4 's method as an example for at least creating a similar gameplay experience.
Hey devs, I'm a linux and python guy (my current pet project (https://launchpad.net/openoutpost)), but I've also been wanting to sit down and learn C++ (or C#) and join an existing project. I havent read all 25 pages but I was wondering if there is room on the team for someone like me, if any example work is needed, etc.
Quote from: croxis on August 30, 2009, 09:25:33 AM
Hey devs, I'm a linux and python guy (my current pet project (https://launchpad.net/openoutpost)), but I've also been wanting to sit down and learn C++ (or C#) and join an existing project. I havent read all 25 pages but I was wondering if there is room on the team for someone like me, if any example work is needed, etc.
Good to hear from you Croxis :) I cant speak for Nique but I would definitely welcome you :) and you should maybe get used to Git and Github :) and also, C# is very similar to Java and PHP (all I can think of right now)
Joe
I have experience with bazaar (launchpad uses it) so learning git should be easy :) I should also warn that my code learning is a hobby, I've only had one term of basic class in java and C++. I am sure I have gaps in my knowledge so I may have a stupid question every now and then :)
3D vs 2.5D, you can have both. I use a 3d engine instead of 2d (to take advantage of 3d terrain, shaders, particle effects and so on) to remake an old 2d isometric game. In OO I store the building info in a yaml file (like xml but fits better with python) with a is2D line. If true it throws up a square and throws the appropriate texture. If false it will load the appropriate 3d files and place it in the tile.
I've been skimming the thread (strolling around town soon so can't sit down and read the whole thing) and noticing Nique wanting to move to a platform independent system. I also appreciate his school requirements, but I just want to share my biased opinion anyways ;D
C# can be used in linux using mono however this is drawing the ire of many in the open source community as the C# specification is under the sole control of microsoft.
My recommendation for python is based on my experience with the panda3d (http://www.panda3d.org/) engine. Python works very well with C++. Panda3d uses c++ for the heavy lifting, math intensive, components (such as drawing 3d objects, or pathfinding 1 million sims from home to work). It uses python as the glue and interface between the components. What I have heard from C++/Python programmers is while C/C++ is obviously faster, coding in python is faster. This helps with the "release early, release often" mantra of open source projects. The other cool thing is that with python you can work on code dynamically and be able to see code changes in real time while the game is running.
Mmh, I never said this, but Nique, if you need any static graphics done (logos, etc.) I can help. Though you seem to have that pretty well handled already! :D
Actually with lods we can have a 2.75 3d view. If you ever bothered spinning a 3d model within the reader you'll notice you can rotate the camera angle about 5 degrees to most directions without causing excessive distortion. :D
Perhaps allowing the player to unlock the camera if he wants could satsfy everyone lol..
Another consideration is using a different method to do the LOD boxes, perhaps we could use a better data storage for the renders, and figure out some other way of projecting the textures on the boxes.
We also need to brainstorm what approach to use to the day/nite system, either the new trunite approach, maxis's overlay system, or even a mixed approach. Although I'd advise asking simfox or other of the BAT gods around here about what they think would be the best approach... Standarizing the illumination rig and rendering procedure will be of paramount importance for the game's graphical aspect.
Hey, welcome to the folks following the link here from the CitiesXL beta site! It's pretty amazing what the unwillingness to take "it can't be done" for an answer can lead to.
David
Hey guys, i see some real movement here. I see people want to participate! That's a very interesting development of where this project is going to.
For now, i want to thank you all, i will read the last page tomorrow with care because i am to tired right now to answer all of it (it's 5:00 in the morning)..
Cheers,
Nique
Well, Im a new guy here, but croxis pointed me to this thread and (even though I havent read through all of it) it sounds interesting. Ive got 0 experience with C#, but I know Java fairly well -- to the point where I can bumble my way through making a small game. I dont much like doing graphics, or GUI, but if you've got room for someone willing to learn, I can most certainly try.
That and city building/economy games are my forte. Im all for a nice FPS, but I like to build/create things more.
I've found some interesting piece of software that we can use for the game. We can create avatars for 'city advisers'. This can be done on the web and then, we can purchase them for use in our game. It is possible to export / download them in professional model software like Maya, 3D studio Max.. or character animators. (for creating realistic animated characters, think about walking, running, falling, playing, stepping into a car, get on the bus, get on a bike, build a house animations).
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdownload.evolver.com%2Ffiles1%2Fproduct%2F2%2F1000000000%2Ffb6e3e5e-ed63-4dc4-8eee-26673baafb6d.jpg&hash=f04ffe356d569450037ddc6f2b2ffcf6ca3f22de) (http://www.evolver.com)
Above: A head avatar
|
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdownload.evolver.com%2Ffiles1%2Fproduct%2F2%2F1000000000%2Fe7a81ec3-8821-45be-a52a-f458511d064d.jpg&hash=23207d60d655246dda3229dbf0f721505a995389) (http://www.evolver.com)
Full body |
why do you want good quality advisers? I know its a clone, but the advisors themselves arent exactly the most interesting part of it :D
I suggest MakeHuman (http://www.makehuman.org/blog/index.php) instead, as it is free :)
@Joest, Because every detail counts ()stsfd()
@croxis, i'll take a look ;)
Croxis, this makehuman looks pretty promising... i'm getting problems with hair..
i think we need to split this topic to create some order here.
edit: since i 'm a moderator on the citymania board it seems that i can't open new topics anymore. I can open polls, but no topics.
Sounds like a mistake in the permission setting. Maybe contact the admins for fix?
it's fixed now ;)
Quote(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdownload.evolver.com%2Ffiles1%2Fproduct%2F2%2F1000000000%2Ffb6e3e5e-ed63-4dc4-8eee-26673baafb6d.jpg&hash=f04ffe356d569450037ddc6f2b2ffcf6ca3f22de)
You know, the scary thing is, this looks like someone I know. Anyway, I know you can get that close to people in SimCity Societies that it tells you who they are, what they do, and other status about them, but I didn't think you were going down to Earth with this city builder Sim.
Quote from: j-dub on August 31, 2009, 10:20:14 AM
You know, the scary thing is, this looks like someone I know. Anyway, I know you can get that close to people in SimCity Societies that it tells you who they are, what they do, and other status about them, but I didn't think you were going down to Earth with this city builder Sim.
The goal of this is to create as much realism as possible. So when you go to your city hall, and when you get notices / warnings or reports, it would be great if you can 'see' these people. We can add another dimension to the game by making the city council dynamic. Think about hiring these people. The better education in your city, the better/smarter people are available for a particular seat in the city council. You can fire / hire :)
If you are a control freak, you can put this whole thing off.. ;0
One of the nice things about CXL is that cars will pull up into the driveway and sims will get and walk into the house, you can actually see this happen, I'd love to see this level of detail [eventually].
Congrats on getting your own board!
Jonathan
Yes that's great, but i think we don't need 'streetview' in the first place. Seeing people going to work and home is on the list. CityMania needs to see the inhabidants as objects.. that have parameters (education level (+history), work, family, money, birth date (year 1, june 25th ?))
This Iis looking really good, and Citymania could give Sc4devotion( well, the whole Sc4 community) a new lease of life! Not that I'm saying Sc4's old but it could open a new direction up!
Is a city explorer planned, where you can walk/ride/drive around your city, and maybe talk to citizens who express their views about a new highway you might be building for example or tell you how to improve the area?
My 2 cents,Ryan
1) Nique I am unable to post new topics. I was going to make two posts for traffic simulation and multiplayer.
2) My understanding is that the first incarnation of the graphics engine will be 2.5d, meaning camera in locked positions. So no driving around. I do think it would be interesting to model political bias and cultural aspects of the citizens. In the US the urban freeways were often constructed in the poor ethnic minority neighborhoods back in the 1950's which had ramifications on these neighborhoods.
That's weird, i'll ask the admins for it.
It would be possible if it used a Sc4 U-drive-it stlye camera( Above ground, essentially the city view but maybe zoomed in a bit) wouldn't it?
Another question: Will City mania be gridless, so you can build at any any angle?(Like Cities XL or City Life)
Quote from: carkid1998 on September 01, 2009, 09:43:29 AM
It would be possible if it used a Sc4 U-drive-it stlye camera( Above ground, essentially the city view but maybe zoomed in a bit) wouldn't it?
I don't think this feature will appear in the first versions because it's not a high priority
Quote from: carkid1998 on September 01, 2009, 09:43:29 AM
Another question: Will City mania be gridless, so you can build at any any angle?(Like Cities XL or City Life)
Grid-less = Depends on what you want, you can use the grid,
Build @ any angle = 99% YES
QuoteBuild @ any angle = 99% YES
Can I ask what your views are on how this is achievable?
I confess to not knowing a lavish amount on game design but at first glance there are two immediate options:
1) The game is in 3D and you simply plop down or grow lots at whatever angle you choose.
2) The game is in 2.5 3D, and lots that are plopped or grown at different angles have been rendered at different angles.
For example, my understanding is that SC4 BAT's are rendered N,E,S,W. I'm under the impression that the BAT's would be rendered like: N, NE, E, S, SE, etc..
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geog.port.ac.uk%2Fwebmap%2Fhantsmap%2Fhantsmap%2Fcmprose1.gif&hash=2588378cc1f42df7fb266ca958c9bf21a7585057)
:satisfied:
Quote from: 6underground on September 01, 2009, 09:21:26 PM
Can I ask what your views are on how this is achievable?
I have explained that here: http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=8737.msg271802#msg271802 (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=8737.msg271802#msg271802)
I would love to help but can't code, so I'll set up an Ideas/requests archive/board on the forums if you want! :thumbsup:
Ryan
Quote from: carkid1998 on September 02, 2009, 05:25:34 AM
I would love to help but can't code, so I'll set up an Ideas/requests archive/board on the forums if you want! :thumbsup:
Ryan
You can't, but i've already asked for it. It will be done soon i guess.
But in the first place, i don't think any request or idea's will be implanted in the first versions of this game. You guys just have to deal with what the game offers in these versions. When the game is stable enough we can take a look inside the idea/suggestion area. ;)
Okay that's fine! ;)
tomkeus, i have send you a pm
To maintain some order i will close this topic.
Yet still I can post here and no lock Icon appears in the sub-forum.
Regards,
Korot
Yes, i kept it open because i think its better for the questions / answers..
Anyway, I have a problem here, should i remove the complete branch ? and leave the /Server/server.py croxis commited? The branch that's there for now, is written in C# and depending on .NET / XNA.. while after a few days of discussing here on this forum, i've seen it's better to do it tomkeus 's way. So, should i clean it up there?
Will there be able to be an aerial view so you can see short buildings that are blocked by skyscrapers, even if it doesn't have perspective, so it is actually 2D.
Jonathan
@Jonathan
That is one really good suggestion. Straight top-down look is extremely useful not just for being able to pick occluded buildings, but also for planning. We are planning to implement planning layer within GUI, so player can make his own urban plan before he builds.
It's kinda like a mini sandbox mode inside the city building mode.
Oh my! I can't believe what you guys are trying to achive. I hope you can make it to the end ;). I wish i could help with the code. But all i can offer is my ideas and translating the game to spanish when the time arrives.
I look foward for more.
Graphics / Programming topics are moved to the right sub boards
Sorry I havent been around, my internet stopped working last Sunday, and hasnt worked since :(
I have been watching your project and wish you good luck.
I really hope you won't get to an final ugly state in which Opencity is now
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.opencity.info%2Fscreenshot%2Ffull%2Fopencity-0.0.5-mainstatusbar.jpg&hash=838715e772168e4c3f37c4144d7f303393dbc97d)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.opencity.info%2Fscreenshot%2Ffull%2Fopencity-0.0.5-alphatree.jpg&hash=a236eaba1a9107d5de23034801eb51cacc3c446c)
also inspired by your will to make this game I am making 2 possible versions of the UI.
chris0101 suggested in the simtropolis 1000 thread :
QuoteI think that we are going to need a very modular system for this to work (each section will need to be programmed, and people will program them whenever they have time to spare). And we are going to need a very elaborate plan. Having written simple computer programs before, whatever plan we write will also have to be flexible, as there will be quite a few bugs that will need to be ironed out. Open source is a necessity as we'll want many people contributing and it will have to be for free, purely reliant on donations.
Graphics-wise, I would actually argue that we adopt modern graphics and full 3D! Why? This project will take YEARS. By the time that it is released, people will have already upgraded their computers and the like and graphics will already have moved on. (SC4's graphics already looked primitive in 2005, let alone today). We could have a very flexible graphics system for those with laptops and older PC's, while those with the top notch PCs can experience really great graphics. For this reason, I recommend adopting the latest and greatest gaming engines. We could also add on realistic physics engines such and incorporate other things such as OpenCL and OpenGL (be careful NOT to use things like CUDA or AMD FireStream as they are corporate specific).
Another thing we need to do is to unify anyone that wants to do so. This will be difficult as everyone has competing ideas and communication could be difficult as everyone is in different time zones, has different times when they are free, etc. We need as many hands on board as possible for this to kick off and produce a game comparable to what they best PC programmers can make.
the original post:http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=39&threadid=89591&STARTPAGE=26#1576947 (http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=39&threadid=89591&STARTPAGE=26#1576947)
If you want I can start searching for people which wanted to help canceled projects . I can "advertise" your project on the simtropolis forums.
Thank you for your time.
http://hongkong.edushi.com/Default.aspx?L=en (http://hongkong.edushi.com/Default.aspx?L=en)
Quote from: townscape on September 13, 2009, 05:49:13 AM
If you want I can start searching for people which wanted to help canceled projects . I can "advertise" your project on the simtropolis forums.
Thank you for your time.
We will definitely need help, but first we have to work out basic framework. Until that is complete it wouldn't be to wise to have too many people wanting to do too many different things. Democracy should lay low for now. We don't want to have more managers than people doing the actual work.
When I had SimCity 2000 on Playstation, thats how the game looked like, with those graphics. SC2000 on the PC was flat, but on PS1, that is what we had to look at. The buildings did not go that high, and there only was so many buildings. This even has more. Here, it looks like there is more variety. Those trees, are not so bad. They could be blured 2% and look better. The water could use a retexture, but for that matter... ...well, it is all a start.
I love the idea of this project and I hope things go well! I can't really help, except with testing the game. I have a pretty good eye for bugs and anything that seems out of place. :thumbsup:
Hello all!
City Mania is really a good idea!
How can I help you?
I'm a software developer by profession, and altough I usually code hardware interface softwares, I can surely help you!
I usually write code in C# or Delphi, so, if you need help, just ask!
I'll be very glad to help!
:-)
Luca.
Nique is working on a C# client, while the server is a python/c++ hybrid.
Quote from: LucaPdor on September 22, 2009, 09:10:46 AM
Hello all!
City Mania is really a good idea!
How can I help you?
I'm a software developer by profession, and altough I usually code hardware interface softwares, I can surely help you!
I usually write code in C# or Delphi, so, if you need help, just ask!
I'll be very glad to help!
:-)
Luca.
Same here. I do C#/Java at work and know a little C++. I would also be willing to learn python (since using a different language would probably be more fun).
I found a few bits and bobs from UrbsUrbis yesterday, am trying to upload them to github but its not working...<http://github.com/FallingBullets/CityMania-UUstuff (http://github.com/FallingBullets/CityMania-UUstuff)>
EDIT: Its all up now :)
Whilst i am working on my own city sim project Atocity (at http://atomius.110mb.com/atocity.htm) but wouldn't mind doing something for yours as well. However i am not good at scripting so i doubt i could do much for your project (mine is made using Game Maker). However i wish you the best of luck with your project. I did TRY to learn C++ mind you, i just wasn't good at it. Same with maths.
However i'll keep an eye on your project. Croxis at Simtropolis says it would be good if all the city sim projects joined forces, and i reckon if all sc4 fans helped, or all those who had skills and time on their hands did, we could build a great game worthy of what 5 would have been if not better. However limited OpenCity, LinCity etc are they prove that such a project CAN work, if done right, and prove you don't need to be a company to make a good game. Simutrans is a great game and is entirely non commercial.
However as i stink at scripting C (i understand an element of it i just have a terrible working memory... same with maths) i doubt i could be of much use except as bug tester, idea suggester etc... and i'm sure you already have plenty of eager non scripting individuals brimming with ideas already... So quite frankly i can't think of much i can contribute to your project, although Croxis suggested i visit this site anyway.
Good luck with your project.
I have some questions for ye. What parts were the hardest to code for? What, code wise, structure do you have? If you could go back and start over with a full rewrite what would you do differently? Keep the same?
Hey look at this : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_planning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_planning)
If you have some time to read it shows just what a city simulator should be.
What parts were the hardest to code for?
Well much of the more simpler stuff was done using drag and drop actions. The elements i used GML for that got the most complex were those associated with things like land value, creating diagonal roads, menus etc I imagine that when i get to having AI in the game that will definitely be the most complex part to script.
What, code wise, structure do you have?
Well since i use GM the whole project is structured by folders and subfolders.
If you could go back and start over with a full rewrite what would you do differently? Keep the same?
Well atm i'm still working on expanding the project, and i doubt i'll rewrite it till i make it 3D some time in the future, but i imagine i wouldn't change much if i did rewrite it. The game has been rewritten completely nine times (it's in it's eighth version now) and this version is going well.
Also to townscape- yes i reckon we should, or anyone working on a similar project should, do some proper actual research for it. I reckon the internets got plenty of info on subjects as broad as urban planning or as more concentrated as say speed limits around the globe, and with this info we could make a really realistic game.
Not to go off topic but i remember one of the main reasons i enjoyed Simcity so much was i always was interested in town planning when i was younger.
It's good to see that you people are getting more and more involved with the project. This was my first goal. With this topic i've shown you guys that anything is possible. There is no limit because you create your own limit by saying for example: "This won't work as we have no studio / money". If we really want to create the SC5 sequel.. it will be created!
Even if it takes 10 years, so be it. Before i started this project, i knew nothing about C# and Visual Studio for example... The only baggage i had, was the knowledge of PHP (a object oriented language) and semi-pro photoshop usage.
I hope that the 'real' pro .. programmers are inspired and take the hard job on their shoulders as i have only some base knowledge about C# for now. In the next 4 years i am doing a Game / Multimedia Design college. This will help me in the future, but for sure: not now. I have faith this project will go somewhere and wont die and i hope that when this game it's first release has been out, i will be remembered as the person who was the glue between the team members (and inspired them to work on it). For now i say, i do whatever i can, as far as my knowledge goes. If you guys have any questions, please ask me.
On github, there is a very very base / kick-off project/framework written using mogre to start/play with.
Well i am fully behind the idea of a successor to Simcity 4 and i agree that as long as it takes and how much effort it takes it's a worthwhile venture, so i'll do the best i can for it. I may as well list my strengths and weaknesses to help you get a feel of what i can contribute to the project.
My main weakness is mathematics, unfortunate considering i like making video games, and other languages, also rather unfortunate (i have been learning C++ in my spare time for about half a month but still am not that good with it to make anything beyond a simple calculation program/hello world type program) However i will try to develop my knowledge of C++
My main strength is english, and writing. Arts i am not terribly creative with, i am allright at basic 2D sprite design but of course this is a 3d project. I have a small amount of experience using the BAT for Simcity, and a meagre understanding of 3D graphics/design. Musically i am learning to make MIDI music but didn't study music theory so my creations, whilst not abominable (at least to me) are not fully orthodox.
GML and GM i am getting better at but of course i doubt that'll be of much use beyond the fact GML shares some similarities with C++
Urban planning i have always been interested in, i remember when i was really young (five to ten) i loved maps and street directories and atlases... That's what got me into Simcity actually. I have a general knowledge of the basic patterns of urban development and having played Simcity i have that experience too, and am a fan of the Simcity series, it is my favorite video game(s).
Being a fan of simulation versus rpg/fps games i am also dedicated to this project idea because i see so much effort put into rpg/fps style games and barely any releases of good sim games lately.
The main things i could contribute atm to the project beyond giving ideas and suggestions (and i'm sure theres enough people who could do that haha) would be beta testing (keep in mind my pc isn't top of the range so if the game was too slow...) and researching, i.e i could do online research on urban planning, to help the games realism (i.e looking up the average costs of power plant maintenance or somesuch thing, which could save you time i suppose)
I will however try my hardest for the project in all areas i can do any good in.
Never underestimate the need for a good writer. Someone has to write all the internal content strings and game documentation.
Hmm now that your game is more and more separating itself from Simcity 4, wouldn't the "simcity 4 clone" phrase seem a little radical?
maybe change it to "greatly inspired by Simcity 4"?
Yes :)
Actually one of the things i found i was good at in Atocity was making the newspaper strings. I was inspired by Simcity 2000's system. Hmm yes i'm fairly good with writing game guides and such.
The game summary is rewritable by the mods. If you want to change it, please, i insist. &apls (croxis you can add your (and if other) name(s) to the dev list. I'm really sorry for not being here for a while, but i had a lot of work to do with school-projects lately.
I do not forget, and read most of the posts but i cannot reply because i have not enough.. i sleep only 5 hours per night at the moment for example ;) ) .. ciao!
And.. i really want to thank tomkeus and croxis for their support and their hard work so far, really i'm really excited about this! thanks allot guys!
OK.. enough lurking ()lurker() ...
I so love what you want to do! And for me ,Dirk has it right! (http://blog.simtropolis.com/post.cfm/city-building-as-a-living-toy). For me SC4 (RH and Mods,etc) is a toy!.... that never wears out... and gets better with age... (where would this toy be without the contributions of our Modders, Lotters and Batters ()what() ) (and let us not forget the Goddess that ensures we never lose our way!)
Nique et al.: I don`t have much to offer other than encouragement and hope! If there is some way I can contribute, CALL ME!... well PM me.. :)
Wishing you Blessings in disguise... :wings:
&apls &bis& ()flower() &bis& &apls ;D
Great project going on here. I'd really like to help, but my programming skills equal zero.
I'm pretty sure, there's a lot of work to do until there even is an alpha-version and many tasks will pop up out of nowhere.
So if there's any 'stupid' work that needs to be done, just pm and i'll try to help.
Also, i'd really like to contribute to this project by adding sound and music.
Keep up the great work and thanks very much so far.
Ok well i see things are slowing a bit here... But i will continue checking this forum every day anyway... I really am committed to the cause of making a community built 'simcity 5'... My own project (lately renamed Virtucity) is going slow... i've decided that because:
1. we're all pretty much in agreement all these community built city sim game projects should join for one united effort
and
2. my programming skills are so weak i'd have trouble making a 'hello world' program without looking up some stuff/my math skills are envied by only snails, mice and invertebrates
that Virtucity will aim to make a great DIMETRIC city sim game (like simcity 2000), whereas the others are mostly making 3d ones. i still might turn it 3d in the future, but lots of people still like simcity 2000... so making a dimetric one can't be that insane an idea
As for this project... well i'll try to do as much as i can for it but i've recently been doing some writing work and i have little programming skills... but as always i'll try my best
In the roadmap and design document I haven't noticed any point including how industries and offices work.
Quote from: townscape on October 23, 2009, 04:14:44 AM
In the roadmap and design document I haven't noticed any point including how industries and offices work.
Because it isn't finished ;D
What point should it be in? Or what new point should be included?
I was thinking about it and thought that warehouses that would grow on industrial zones would have a demand of their own which would depend on monthly production.
Production would be of different types and influence demand of different industrial types. It would balance itself by export and would not influence budget, only through tax generation of the industries that produce.
This leads to the idea of freight which is passed through warehouses before going to rail stations, aerial or naval freight.
The warehouse would be a point of distribution. From there it would go to the commercial services or to the freight stations to export.
This will have only a small impact on traffic.
What about places to produce goods for the warehouses to store? Perhaps warehouses could be a subset of industrial zoning. As in, you could zone for industrial (agriculture), industrial (production), industrial (storage), and industrial (consumption).
Industrial (agriculture): rather self-explanatory.
Industrial (production): Industries that produce raw materials.
Industrial (storage): Warehousing. 'Nuff said.
Industrial (consumption): Industries that consume raw materials and send finished products back to Industrial (Storage) to be distributed to Commercial Services.
How about rename them to
Agriculture
Industrial (Primary Producers);
Industrial (Secondary Producers);
Industrial (Storage);
Also the ideas above will make offices make sence because they would be the ones distributing production (on paper) to the commercial services sector.
Office demand would be regulated by the needs of all the other types of businesses like accounting and paperwork. All this is to give a purpose to the offices and industry more than a generator of job places and traffic volume that disappears into nowhere. Production would be a value that balances itself through the whole region.
The products would not dissapear but go to places where they are needed or create an overproduction crisis. Another good reason a building would dilapidate and get abandoned besides the "no-workers".
I don't quite well remember why did demand fall and buildings would delapitate in simcity 4? Because the buildings built on high demand lowered it?
I realy think this is a good idea for simulation. But i would keep in mind that it isn't a tycoon game.. so this process should go automaticly. In your first city you absolutely need industry, but when there are industrial cities across the country the cities commerce should import products from other cities (but fully automaticly, because it is a citybuilder (simulation) not a business tycoon game :) ).. but what we cán implement is some options to stimulate kinds of business. Making commerce completely depending on real industry in the game will be very hard.
This is more to influence demand than really control the industry. All the production simulation is not influenced by the mayor, only through dezoning, demolition or ordinances.
My idea is, as townscape said, more to help regulate demand. It's also looking towards making things more realistic, rarely are there mines (Primary Producers) right next to factories (Secondary Producers). This creates a need for warehouses (Storage) at transhipment points like seaports.
Commercial (Service) is connected to Industry (Storage) and Industry (Secondary Producers) because it sells what they produce/store. Commercial (Office) regulates C(S).
As was said, the idea is to help regulate demand, control where industries grow, and foster realism, not to control what goes where.
Also, it would help make your roads LOOK as busy as they ARE. I(PP) generates trucks which travel to I(S) areas near transhipment points (freight stations, seaports, and airports) throughout the day. At the TS points, material is transferred to rail, air, or sea vehicles. The TS points then generate air, rail, or sea traffic, which travels to other TS points where it is offloaded into more I(S) buildings. Then, automata from I(SP) travels to I(S) areas, pick up material, and take it back to I(SP). Then, trucks from I(SP) return finished products to I(S), which then ships it out to C(S) via rail, road, air, or sea.
Of course, I(SP) near railways can have dedicated freight stations that bring material directly from I(PP) or transhipment points.
Well as weak as my lack of skills are, i have finished Virtucity (due to me getting article writing work that limits my time working on projects) so i will devote all my free online time to this project... although of course there is little i can contribute as my C is awful.
I think it's a good idea to make up what classes / methods needed to make and list them. Afterwards we can assign programmers to write these pieces of the game. Then we can review it and adjust where needed.
There is no overview at the moment about.. who is working on what. Maybe we should setup a WIKI and make a list of objects that we need. Then assign people to it?
We need to either use trac, launchpad (http://"http://launchpad.net")(take the tour), or convince the devs to upgrade to SMF 2.0 and install http://www.smfproject.net/
I also suggest having programmers work on features instead of individual classes. For Vista Microsoft programmers were divided to work on specific classes, while for Windows 7 they were divided into teams and worked with any source they needed to add their feature they were assigned. Windows 7 turned out to be a much more stable OS. CPP (makers of Eve Online) use the scrum development method which is also feature centric, not class.
In order for a feature centric paradigm to work a coding style will need to be established.
https://launchpad.net/citymania
Do we use strict MVC (http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model-view-controller-model) for our project? (for best overview)
MVC is the only one I really know. Can you add me (croxis) onto maintainer or diver list?
Quote from: croxis on October 25, 2009, 04:12:43 PM
Can you add me (croxis) onto maintainer or diver list?
https://launchpad.net/citymania
so...you chose launchpad...at least you didnt try and get that smf thing :D
Joe
Quote from: Nique on October 25, 2009, 02:22:03 PM
https://launchpad.net/citymania
Do we use strict MVC (http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model-view-controller-model) for our project? (for best overview)
I know I'm not involved (yet) with this project, but I think this one is a no-brainer. In a big project with a GUI, data representation and background processing there's really no reason not to go with MVC. Clear separation of concerns will be a bit more difficult in the beginning to design, but will pay itself off tenfold later in the development process.
indeed, we should make some standard coding rules e.g.
- This_Is_A_Class
- thisIsAMethod
I've been using the Python PEP8 Style (http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/) the best that I can. mixedCase has been used for functions because that is what the Panda Engine uses.
Launchpad no worky. And I was going to post a blueprint x.x
i don't understand.. its gone?! :o
You might want to contact them with the issue see if it was a technical error or they were not happy with something. Usually they notify you if there is something that violates terms of usage.
In the interim I developed a team for us: https://launchpad.net/~citymania
Lately I have seen a lot of talking on the open source side of things and for now have noticed a lot of independent open source city simulators:
-Simtropolis
-CityMania
-Metropolis( still in theory )
-Cities of [the] World
When I think about the quantity of work that all these projects will need the issue of human resources arises in my mind.
The community is big and willing to help, but this resource is almost limited and the more projects there are the less people working on one project. That gives us a smaller chance that ANY project will succeed.
This is a thing to worry about. If one project can get 20 volunteers to work, 2 projects will have to split them, 3 even more, 4... 5...etc.
Sure you can find more people outside the community, but will there be enough motivation for them? There is also the issue of community support:
If there are too many choices, won't that confuse the community?
I'm not sure that people will support any project if the number of developers is small. Also if most DO succeed I'm not sure you'll get enough support to continue development, because different people will take different sides and that means the supporting community will get smaller.
Maybe find some common compromises in a Universal Design Document and unite all the project starters, their developers and the work already done. It is better to do this now when the work is fresh and easily modifiable, people are more open to this. Later the projects will separate themselves more and more. First discuss all the details and debate the most serious ones, then plan the development and share work. If you don't like something, argue your choice or work on it yourself as a plug-in or an option, the more choice the better. Most people have a very resembling idea on what are the base ideas of their project, and everyone should unite their efforts to at least create that common base. A single game with different options is better than many weak games. First develop a powerful base that everyone will like and then develop the other features.
I call every project to unite and create the best open source game ever.
Also posted on the Simtropolis 1000 topic
http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=39&threadid=89591&startpage=27#1640363 (http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=39&threadid=89591&startpage=27#1640363)
I disagree. Simtropolis 1000 is pretty much a dead project that never really got started. A project forum/homepage was created for it and it was renamed to "urbs urbis" but they basically never got any further than the planning stages because there were too many people involved. Basically, the Simtopolis 1000 project is not an open source simulator, it is a wishlist for an open source simulator...
For my experience - which is not very extensive, so I might be wrong - a lot of open source project start with a few people that flesh out the major lines for the project and start on the basics. When those start to look like something valuable, people will start to get interested and will offer help. Then, if someone interesting comes along, the project admins can pick them up and add them to the group. IMO the architecture of the game should not be too detailed (yet), but should be focused on extensibility. The advantage of such an approach is you can actually get started on something. A positive side-effect of starting small is that you have a low threshold to get started on something.
just my 0.02$...
Quote from: daeley on November 04, 2009, 03:54:37 AM
I disagree. Simtropolis 1000 is pretty much a dead project that never really got started.
just my 0.02$...
actually there was a guy that announced that he needs help with a project he called "Simtropolis*tm*"
see the last page of the topic I posted higher to see it
Quote from: townscape on November 04, 2009, 06:29:51 AM
actually there was a guy that announced that he needs help with a project he called "Simtropolis*tm*"
see the last page of the topic I posted higher to see it
this is true, but he wont get anywhere...
That is exactly what happened with urbs urbis.
I feel the best point to bring other community members onboard when we have a playable prototype. Code framework will be in place, we have a basic understanding on what features we want and what direction to go in. Then the invites can open up. That doesn't mean we say no to people who do wish to join, but I wouldn't start active recruitment.
The inverse is also food for thought. If another project further along than us are willing to reconcile ideas for an open source project, would we be willing to join them?
My current status: Last week of class so I am in crunch time for projects and the like. Next week I'm on vacation but might be able to code a little bit on the trip down. Then I only have one job and one class so I can work on python code again!
Current issues: The network component of the client is threaded, and when it starts up for some reason it blocks the main loop in the client. If that can be fixed I will have screenshots for people :)
Joe - I agree he wont be getting anywhere unless he joins an existing project. BASIC?
OK croxis, for now, you and me are working on the code.
I made some progress with my prototype. I'm rewriting the code completely and for now I'm very pleased with organization. I have modularized it properly. I've isolated drawing into one class so when I transfer to Panda3D I'll just hide it behind interface I've already developed for FLTK. UI elements will also have to be ported to Panda3D, but since I have come up with simple but adaptable UI it shouldn't take too much effort. I hope there won't be any need to touch the rest of the code.
When I'm done with basic 3D version it should be foundation on which we'll add code to render isometric eye candy representation of the city. It will also allow us to define communications protocol in detail, ie. what parameters of each newly created lot we need to communicate between UI client and server etc.
We should need to coordinate our work since you're working on the Python version. I could probably expose construction layer API through Python so you could use it.
I've been reading the previous posts and heres my basic input:
1. I wholeheartedly agree with and endorse the notion of all teams working on community built open source or closed source city simulation game projects combining their efforts into a united cause
2. My programming skills are lamer than Milhouse Van Houten's social status, and as such I shall continue working on Virtucity (http://markwaybill.110mb.com/virtucity.htm) whilst also doing everything I CAN do for CityMania.
I am dedicated to the ideal and reaching the goal of CityMania and the 'united causes' method of bringing together all the projects. I would try to put aside Virtucity entirely but because 1. I easily get bored and 2. my programming skills in any non Game Maker language are weak and i require the Game Maker UI due to my memory and bad math skills... i'm afraid that can't be done.
I am not advertising my project. I am the only member of it (although I tried recruiting a while back with little success), but I will use it as an example. The present version of Virtucity, 8.012, is a perfectly playable game. It is a Simcity Classic of sorts, and minus a few random bugs here and there and limited gameplay, it works as a game at the moment.
Will I continue it? yes. Because of the reasons stated above. But I really DO want the whole communities joining together thing to happen, i just don't see how my skills can be used much for a project like this. I know basic GML and drag and drop and using Game Maker, and i doubt GML and C will be able to be integrated in a project for a long time (i read somewhere it would be a breach of law to make a GML- C translator program... a pity if you ask me)
So, call me a defeatist and a traitor but i will continue working on Virtucity. However the chaps behind OpenCity, LinCity, Cityscape etc are probably a lot better with code than me and that excuse i used would not apply to them. So i wholeheartedly agree with the ideal of the various projects uniting.
erm i was involved in urbs urbis and i have a couple of backed up bits of documentation and scattered ideas... if you want them i would be glad to post here or forward you guys the files..
Sure. You could start a new thread where we could collect all previous works and discuss them.
So how much of the project has been completed? I saw some screen shots before which looked good...
Right now there are a couple of prototypes. There is the road construction tool. I am currently working on (a) terrain engine. We're still debating which engine to use for the game, Panda3D or Irrlicht.
Quote from: poshbakerloo on December 10, 2009, 10:32:33 AM
So how much of the project has been completed? I saw some screen shots before which looked good...
Zilch. We're still figuring how to do some stuff.
Happy New Year!
May this new year be one of great achievements for this project and any project that exists. Let this be the year of success, the year of fulfilled promises, the year when open source gains weight.
May all that participate in this project, all developers and supporters find new strengths to complete their goals.
Good luck in the new year and hope to see you here!
:D
&apls
I hope this new year brings me better luck with shaders than before.
All I want to do is overlay a grid in the region view! But noooooo. It is deciding not to show up at all........
the most amazing thing ive ever seen
when you are done with this if it isn't compatible with my computer i will cry and then run out and buy a new computer just to play this.
again
amazing
well, I hope to have monthly prototype updates for people to try, so you can always know if it is compatible or not ;)
haha thnx man def will be testin it just let me know when i can :D
im litterly home all day so if u ever need feedback on anythin just message me and ill try and help out i wanna c this thing succeed
You can right now, check out the prototype 2 thread.
yeah i got it to get to multiplayer yesterday and then it crashed today im gettin the web page isnt available- tried on google chrome and firefox
First of all, this is like a dream come true if you really get to take this thing past a certain level, I predict it's really going to take off!
Now, I have to say this, my dream is for this to be really 3d. Think of the possibilities. A plugin to allow you to walk around your own city (FPS style). A plugin that allows you to drive cars around. Be a rail-conductor. Be a pilot. It's GTA in your own city.
But, and heres the point, you don't have to provide these plugins, so you shouldn't be concerned. But, by making this thing truely 3d and giving plugins and thus custom code control over the camera/environment, you enable these possibilities.
Oh how I would love to see my creations from a citizens perspective!
Keep up the good work!
You will be happy to know the game is in full 3d so we can position the camera anywhere.
Wohoo! :-)
I think I got confused with all the posts I read yesterday, I was under the impression a billboard approuch similar to SC4 was deemed nesessary for performance reason.
I'm very glad I was wrong :-)
Looking forward to any status updates coming!
That was the plan. Until calculations were made that for a large city people would require about 500 gigs of ram.
QuoteThat was the plan. Until calculations were made that for a large city people would require about 500 gigs of ram.
damn... I only have 499GB ;)
I thought the billboard approach meant there was less than 3D models, which is why it was considered in the first place?
It would be less than 3d models if we used just four possible facings like sc4. However the freeform rotations means that there will be a unique texture for every building for every camera direction. This quickly adds up.
By going full 3d buildings can potentially share textures in common which can further reduce texture memory use.
Quote from: croxis on January 30, 2010, 10:52:40 AM
That was the plan. Until calculations were made that for a large city people would require about 500 gigs of ram.
Actually that was 5 gigs of video memory, but nevertheless, it could as well be 500 gigs for that matter.
So I have issues with my decimal places :P
Dear CityMania Developer members.
I reinstalled sc4 just yesterday after 1 whole year of temporary "divorce" and found about this
exciting project. Now I've found about CityMania, there's load of posts to read now!
Anyway, great initiative and faith to the city builder game. I will keep close eye to this.
I hope you best wishes for this project.
Hi Guys
I started a topic in other games about Cityscape 1.8, this isn't a game or a city simulation as such, but it is a urban planner
http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=10196.0
the company also did a youtube video for V1.7 which you can find here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf9bND1uRXs
which makes interesting watching
:)
Quote from: catty on February 13, 2010, 08:43:55 AM
Hi Guys
I started a topic in other games about Cityscape 1.8, this isn't a game or a city simulation as such, but it is a urban planner
http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=10196.0
the company also did a youtube video for V1.7 which you can find here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf9bND1uRXs
which makes interesting watching
:)
judging from the video this is what every
commercially made city building game should aim for. it is epic :P
but it costs $19,000 :'(
Hi. I'm donoteat. I make low-poly buildings and infrastructure for various 3D simulators.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmodclub.rigsofrods.com%2Fdonoteat%2Fless%2520cluttered%2520area%2Fbigbigintersection.png&hash=eed1c123f63cf03c65a34092c7a65b9b18d3589b)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmodclub.rigsofrods.com%2Fdonoteat%2Fless%2520cluttered%2520area%2Fwasheringtonbridge.png&hash=79dd05e5b89ca806bdfa12966151e3fd684082ee)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmodclub.rigsofrods.com%2Fdonoteat%2F.officialterrain%2Fhighwaytunnel2.png&hash=f8a6f46776b21ad8952dd87f3c55816641514881)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmodclub.rigsofrods.com%2Fdonoteat%2F.officialterrain%2Ftempelhof04.png&hash=ec80da8ab5e58c039a5d8f1b5ae5785a763ea28f)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmodclub.rigsofrods.com%2Fdonoteat%2F.officialterrain%2Fbuildings04.png&hash=7723add95d04e35c6957b9b5c4268e76e513132c)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmodclub.rigsofrods.com%2Fdonoteat%2F.officialterrain%2Fhighdetailrowhouses2.png&hash=0027a229834d57850bf41ed8a2b31b4a1a940859)
Do you want any...?
(also, I doubt that this is the proper place to post this.. where should I actually be posting it?)
Those look nice! Just to let you know all official in game art will be under creative commons attribution share alike. As long as you are ok with that then I think I can get started on getting some of these assets in :)
Right now there is no mechanism, I want to set up a package system to make custom content easy to distribute.
nice models
also incidental echo echo echo
its very quite :sleeping:
were is everyone at, whats happening or is everyone at school like me :'(
regards
Facing a gui issue that has been around for a while, just I have not wanted to deal with :(
Quote from: donoteat on February 28, 2010, 09:30:13 AM
Hi. I'm donoteat. I make low-poly buildings and infrastructure for various 3D simulators.
Do I remember you making Penguinville for Rigs Of Rods?
Got the gui bug fixed!
I've been extending the paged terrain support so a region can be non power of two. It will still need to be a multiple of 64+1 in size as the base terrain tile is 64 squares by 64 squares. However the results so far will be disastrous for anyone living in the region...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg714.imageshack.us%2Fimg714%2F234%2Fscreenshot004j.th.png&hash=26d5f1d6ce2ce803c7a0938757826c3e0426a585) (http://img714.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot004j.png)
Awesome stuff happening in here, thankyou croxis :)
I hope City Mania looks like that urban planner Cityscape :thumbsup:
I hope so to, but right now I will be happy with some blank boxes lol
OK guys, I wasn't around for some time, but I am working on 3D version of construction layer prototype I made few months ago. I don't have much time though and there is a lot of kinks with drawing 3D objects.
I have solved most of the fundamental problems few weeks ago but I'm still not happy with some details.
I hope I will have opportunity to upload something for you to play within a week or two.
I havent been around lately also. This is because of some serious personal problems. (i have been declared bankrupt... and can keep myself barely alive with the resources i have).
But; i want to thank you all for all your effort, your thinking, your creativity, willingness and so forth.. you guys put in this project. Especialy Croxis and Tomkeus.
If you have anything to offer to this game. Please don't be shy to mention it, in one of the threads. At the moment i am unable to develop anything actively but i see that this game will not die. Even if it will be silent for a period of time, don't write this game off please. As i've stated before, it can take a couple of years to bring something useful, and this is one of the reasons for it. We are doing everything in our spare 'free' time. If we had the resources, to hire staff, to get a central office .. we would have do this job a lot quicker but that's not the case. We are all (working) humans and doing it in our free time.
Thank you! ()stsfd()
Had a friend go through the same because of medical bills. Hope things turn out better!
Just wanted to show my appreciation for this project. It would be totally awesome if you guys can bring to some "complete" end result. &apls
I've not much time to spend due to RL obligations. (The more I applaud the people giving their scarce time!) So, I won't be contributing beyond some sideline cheering and commenting.
Cheer. Cheer. Cheer. Keep it up!
I was sidetracked a week ago by having to start the work on the content management system in order to continue with my work on the construction layer. Meanwhile, something came up, I had to prepare some talk and I didn't do any work since then. Though, courtesy of Eyjafjallajökull, my flight was canceled yesterday and everything was shifted for a week, so I'm completely free for the entire week to finish the work on content management system and begin implementing interface so I could finally upload that god damned prototype.
If you can send me an outline or some parameters as soon as you can and I can implement the more mundane aspects, UI, server/client management, file handling, etc.
You'll get everything, although it might take me some time to comment it out.
Awesome guys!! &apls &apls &apls &apls
Mmmkay, sidetracked again. It is just amazing how new unexpected stuff just piles up, but we want to make good fundamentals so we wont have to constantly return to ground code later.
As we add new functionality to Construction Layer (and UI client in general) new questions on how to integrate it into the broad picture constantly pop up. So, the decision is to make the app with the small core, and implement everything else as a plugin. This ofcourse, raises the question of the plugin architecture and how to implement it, answer to which is everything but trivial.
Something that might cut down on the menus a bit: (just a suggestion)
Are you going to be using a grid? If you are you could have a feature which lets you select an area and then "ask" what can I put here. The game will then find everything that can fit in that space and say that area has quite a lot of pollution it will put things that reduce pollution near the top of the list, while things that create pollution go at the bottom.
No grid. There might/probably be a guiding grid to help with construction.
However a suggestion idea might be interesting. Selecting an area and obtaining the average conditions. But I do have a feeling most experienced city builders do not want it or wont use it. Might ba good feature for newer players.
A grid like this?
- Select a transport network/ OR LAY DOWN A HELPER LINE! to activate some grid around it
- Use the grid of the selected network to lay down new roads align to that grid
Example:(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2FCityMania%2Fexperiments%2Fselectgrid1.png&hash=76d2b53b9248b962a418238aa5b4aa001c8d9d9e)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2FCityMania%2Fexperiments%2Fselectgrid2.png&hash=5a6ea5dc6f51a8a3b7a7e82ed7717b34e75fa4b0)
I think there is still some base grid needed to draw overview maps (for water, electricity etc)
Then optionally somewhere in the screen to set the grid width (in in-game meters/kilometers or feet whatever the user has set). You can make perfectly scaled neighborhoods then ;).
Easy to calculate gardens. You can build houses on full squares (not sliced ones), the garden of the house / building can be calculated by the computer.
When you expand the road, the garden will be destroyed (or even the house if it is to close to the road). When you finished the expansion of the road, you will be asked if the computer should calculate the new gardens along the road you expanded.
(of course with a message like this: "Do you allow the buildings along this road to set out their gardens?")
Maybe even with a new 'setting window, to set garden properties'.[/list]
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2FCityMania%2Fexperiments%2Fbuildings.png&hash=2cbb0b71cdf620b15fc7e764fa98903c55c549a8)
I have worked out most of that stuff and also how to code it. The only problem is I cannot manage to sit and write down construction process for you guys to discuss.
Ok,
I dont know what you mean. But i think this is a beautiful concept because it is like it is in real life. This way you get unique sets of gardens/lots, while the buildings are sometimes the same. This will give you the illusion that it is still different. (in fact it is..)
Maybe add properties to buildings to set color sets :)
@tomkeus: post a youtube video about it, it's faster :)
Quote from: LucaPdor on September 22, 2009, 09:10:46 AM
Hello all!
City Mania is really a good idea!
How can I help you?
I'm a software developer by profession, and altough I usually code hardware interface softwares, I can surely help you!
I usually write code in C# or Delphi, so, if you need help, just ask!
I'll be very glad to help!
:-)
Luca.
This guy offered help. &idea
I'd help if I could, but you are already way past my level of programming skills.
This was past mine when I started. Didn't stop me from learning :D
Quote from: croxis on May 15, 2010, 07:19:14 AM
This was past mine when I started. Didn't stop me from learning :D
It helps that Python is easy to learn if you have prior knowledge of any object-oriented language. I figured it out pretty quick from the guide you sent me to. Now I just need to find a way to stop being so overwhelmed at work :'( .
Quote from: croxis on May 15, 2010, 07:19:14 AM
This was past mine when I started. Didn't stop me from learning :D
There is also the fact that I am not sure I want to get into it right now. I will be heading into surgery in the next few weeks, and though it is not major, I don't want to start something right now I might not be able to work on for a while.
I have to have my knee worked on again.
Quote from: RebaLynnTS on May 16, 2010, 09:01:54 AM
There is also the fact that I am not sure I want to get into it right now. I will be heading into surgery in the next few weeks, and though it is not major, I don't want to start something right now I might not be able to work on for a while.
Well we'll be around for a while :D
Joe
Hey guys, I just want to thank you for putting all this time and effort for this project. I wish I could help, but Im completely blank when it comes to coding. If you guys need help with anything non coding/drawing related, I guess I can lend a hand, if not, like another folk said, I'll sit on the sidelines and cheer the awesome work thats being done!!
I have started a new wave about the client app design here: https://wave.google.com/wave/waveref/googlewave.com/w+IaqzM-VAA
Keep going everybody! You are doing great work!
I know nothing about programing, but I have read this thread :)
Since the grid is being talked about right now perhaps I can at least spark some thought... I have two ideas
1) I want a road from point A to point B and there is a hill between them. SimCity4 makes a straight road. Perhaps there is a way for the game to calculate the path that would yield the least amount of elevation change and return that as the road path. Perhaps I could press TAB and cycle through various paths of elevation the road could take.
2) For zoneing... Using the previous Nique picture as a reference. First, if you could change the orientation of the grid to make roads, why not orient the zones to the grid that the road was on? (The third picture is using the grid from the first picture. Why not from the second picture?). Second, the third picture has four zone areas. Perhaps there is a way to have this as one zone area. The computer would then calculate the best configuration of multiple buildings in the same zone area. Is this clear? ...Perhaps the grid in the second picture is for road building help only and otherwise not functional... Otherwise, the program could choose which grid to use as it calculates the best configuration of buildings.
Beyond me. Perhaps you are focused on other things right now. My hope is that this post may stir some thoughts. Thanks for your work.
Quote from: Lowkee33 on May 26, 2010, 01:16:49 PM
1) I want a road from point A to point B and there is a hill between them. SimCity4 makes a straight road. Perhaps there is a way for the game to calculate the path that would yield the least amount of elevation change and return that as the road path. Perhaps I could press TAB and cycle through various paths of elevation the road could take.
Actually, I would very much like to hear what people think about this. Now, keep in mind that network is done differently thatn in SC4, where roads were tiles on the grid, while here roads are straight and curved lines. So, when you draw a road, you point and click, the same way as you would do when you draw lines in drawing programs. Now since terrain between endpoints can vary question arises about what should road surface do between the endpoints. Should it stick to the terrain level and follow it, or should it stay on it's mathematically assigned course and set up embankments, tunnels and bridges along it's way?
I would suggest it should follow terrain upto certain gradients (set by the user at/after drawtime) then it should start smoothing the terrain.
Joe
I can't say when embankments should be used, because I don't know the real-world engineering of roads (how curved a highway can be compared to a street). However, if terraforming costs money, then after I drag my road from point A to point B I could get something like the sc4 bridge option chart. Perhaps there would be different types of roads, but my focus is on the slider, which would display the different paths the road would take as I change the cost of the road.
I think that this idea would be have to be, say, alt-road. I wouldn't want to have to choose options after every road that I place. Straight and smooth would be a good default.
Nique, according to your pictures, the buildings all seem to be stuck to the 90 degree squares. In most 3D games, the buildings can at least be rotated 45 degrees and still take up the same number of tiles (with a small offset and overlap of tiles not occupied by the building). Even Children of the Nile did this. I must admit that Caesar IV was better at this. Even if the grid cannot be freely rotated, a building should still be able to take up a space not limited by a 90 degree (NWSE) rectangle.
Quote from: Ocram on May 31, 2010, 09:55:33 AM
Nique, according to your pictures, the buildings all seem to be stuck to the 90 degree squares. In most 3D games, the buildings can at least be rotated 45 degrees and still take up the same number of tiles (with a small offset and overlap of tiles not occupied by the building). Even Children of the Nile did this. I must admit that Caesar IV was better at this. Even if the grid cannot be freely rotated, a building should still be able to take up a space not limited by a 90 degree (NWSE) rectangle.
Building are not directly plopped usually, unless it's specialty buildings like police hq's and schools. Everything else is placed in free-form zones (similar to simcity 4)
Please take note of the Quick 'n Dirty prototype here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=9204.0) for, if not a precise model of the final construction tool, a good display of the main concept and wanted end results
I saw the video months ago but the pictures seem to show that the buildings are at 90 degree angles.
I replied to a CityMania post, and got thinking again. I decided to post here, as I noticed my name in the thread... The topic I replied to was about how accessible the game will be to the young crowd. I listed a few games that I liked, but then kept thinking about them :) I will list some more.
Civilization 2 (and maybe others): Google it if you dont know. Unit characteristics (and a lot of other things in the game) were controlled by a .doc file. Want your militia to kill a tank? set the strength to 100! Perhaps there is a way to transfer something like this to CityMania building characteristics.
Railroad Tycoon 3: Marvelous economy, but also nice fully 3d graphics that runs well on 16mb graphics and 128mb ram. The trees had only one side though. Quite modifiable too.
I have also been thinking about the road vs building system. I saw the video about roads and the way they curve and have the "parallel option". Very nice. But there is a grid there, and that is good. Could the game potentially calculate the function of the road vs a set axis? By knowing the slope of the road at a certain point the game could also know where a road is not. A buildings foundation could then be told to be say, a little up on the y-axis here and a little left on the x-axis there. That would probably take some work though :-\
How possible is something like this? Can I help? I have no skill with programing, but I could do the math part.
Any help, especially on the technical part, is more than welcome. You can start a topic with a detailed suggestion.
If anyone has any favorite game mechanic from other games you think would go well in this project, you can name it here or any topic that is relevant to that game mechanic or interface element.
Anything like: how do they display information, how do they handle tutorials, humor and writing, tools used in-game and out of the game.
How do you imagine the graphics should look like in a decent setting (we're not talking citiesxl graphics... yet) so you wouldn't complain about em?(it's planned to be in 3d)
Quote from: tomkeus on May 27, 2010, 04:55:42 AM
Actually, I would very much like to hear what people think about this. Now, keep in mind that network is done differently thatn in SC4, where roads were tiles on the grid, while here roads are straight and curved lines. So, when you draw a road, you point and click, the same way as you would do when you draw lines in drawing programs. Now since terrain between endpoints can vary question arises about what should road surface do between the endpoints. Should it stick to the terrain level and follow it, or should it stay on it's mathematically assigned course and set up embankments, tunnels and bridges along it's way?
I think that cities xl had a great approach concerning bridges and roads, separating them. As for embankments or not: depending on the type of road or highway. We could also make so that by default by dragging a "road", it will conform as much as it can to the surface (flattening or not constructing on extreme angles and surfaces, but holding for example CTRL while setting it could enable more embankments. I recall a Road Slope Mod for Sim City, which would raise or dig embankments to the extreme to straighten the strip of road you set. That was not always a good thing. Although I would strongly recommend bridges as a separate tool, it could easily be activated by holding the Shift key,for example, during road construction, so we could not abrupt the flow of road building.
Slope mod:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/csxlex/images/beximg/NHP%20Ennedi%20Slope%20Mod%20LEX2.jpg)
(Source (http://www.sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1512))
Concerning terraforming, I always thought "holding the mouse button to raise the ground" a little bit complicated. Why not hold a point and raise the ground manually for more precise and not messy terraforming. A point or radius which would raise the ground to the altitude the user requires. It would be simple to manipulate from any angle because the point will move the adjacent ground on a vertical line with variyng smoothness. It is similar to a tool in the Blender 3d Software and I think it is quite a great system, especially radius influencing how much space adjacent to that point will level also. (Here (http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Blender_3D:_Noob_to_Pro/Mountains_Out_Of_Molehills) is a wiki page describing its works). Basically, you drag a point and based on the radius you choosed it created a hill, or a sharp cliff, or a tall mountain. It would also lower the number of terraforming tools required.
Blender 3d terraforming capabilities:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F1%2F1a%2FBlender3DNoobToPro-SharpVsSmoothFalloff.png&hash=ea6552c26b07e0d6762ff482b546d60f8c3abd94) (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F5%2F59%2FBlender3DNoobToPro-RoundedMtns.png&hash=078853b5d2de537e5cc4f9e212a2c691564c265e)
Also separating a "river" or "water" tool (basically a tool that by lowering a portion of land adds water to it) would allow us to create high altitude lakes and rivers. We could probably even make procedural waterfalls if the tool was concient of water limits and extreme variation in adjacent terrain (could be something like a script which was enabled by connecting two bodies of water from different altitudes). This will not influence the sea level which will sink into water any land that goes beneath the line.
I think we have to become more simple regarding the current development state of this game. The development looks dead to me. I do not want to throw all the effort people made away. My first idea was to 'clone' SC4, improve it in basics and later on -> expand it. The Isometric (2.5d) approach is brilliant because it wont 'eat' that much gpu/shared cpu resources, making place (leaving enough resources) to do more and better (intensive) cpu calculations. The graphics stay very pretty, we can even improve it more with some 3d atmospheric and water effects. We can add another 'zoom' level, and increase the quality of the zoom5 level because we now have better network/storage capacity. (@2003 most games where still sold on CD-ROM and network speeds were slow). This means we stay with 4 (rotation) views, we stay with the grids.. and the zoom levels stay the same (if we do not add another one).
So what about making a new start, take what we have created / learned from this project and just clone the SC4 game as close we can. Of course with better modification abilities for the community. But i think you guys get the point. With Panda it is possible to create a 2.5d game.
Do not start with network projects etc. because it will make the game programming complicated. Just start with basics with a simple client version. Later on, we can expand it more, and we can add networking functions with new patches / updates.
A great proposition, but we should seriously look into searching for more volunteers, only where to get them?
I'd love to help out, but I have zero skill in programming
I'm talking more of an external to these forums source of volunteers, as this forum is depleted it seems
I think a good place to start is the buildings. If you can get the SC4 models to work with a new program then I think there will be a lot more support for an open-source simcity
Quote from: Lowkee33 on November 17, 2010, 09:47:14 AM
I think a good place to start is the buildings. If you can get the SC4 models to work with a new program then I think there will be a lot more support for an open-source simcity
Good point
Lowkee33, I would hate to lose all my favourite SC4 Models, and all the hours people have put in to create them it would be a great loss, but maybe that's the sacrifice that has to be made if we want an open-source simcity clone replacement or its back to hoping that one of the existing open-source city builders simulation games eventually end up with the kind of details that we want to see in a city builder and so far the best of them seems to be
Lincity-NG found here
http://lincity-ng.berlios.de/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
hopefully they will sort out the bugs in the Windows version as it only really works in LINUX at the moment.
Or there is choice number three and that's the "
the Metropolis Project"
QuoteThe Metropolis Project is a community-controlled non-profit organization dedicated to creating an open-source urban simulation game called Metropolis. We are hoping to create a next-generation successor to the ground-breaking Sim City series.
Unlike many open source projects you might be familiar with, the Metropolis Project is based on a community funding approach: Instead of relying solely on volunteer development, we aim to collect funding for a full-time, professional development team from community contributions.
see their website here http://themetropolisproject.org/ and here http://themetropolisproject.org/about for details
As to whether that would work who knows, but something to think about anyway.
:)
Hi Guys
Back again
Have been following a new city builder game that is being build by three canadian university students, it may be worth the CityMania team having a talk with them and see if there is any common ground between the two projects.
"$Deal"$
Anyway they are called Synekism, their website is here;
http://www.synekism.com/
and the topic they have started at Simtropolis is here;
http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=39&threadid=117429
:)
@catty
My little Christmas gift
Try this, as an attempt to clone sc4, i made this using the Unity (Indie) Engine. Nothing really special (yet!) in the game, but to clone sc4, i think i'm getting close with the 'look & feel', at least with the terrains, the zoom levels and the input controls. (no mouse pan control yet):). (can be exported to both Windows & Mac, Must be possible to distribute to linux to because the use of mono (the .NET alternative).
For now: only windows:
Download the zip file, extract it somewhere on ur computer, and run the CityMania.EXE
Keys:
Arrow keys to move around (+ shift moves faster)
Use mouse-wheel to zoom in and out.
--
Maybe a 'framework' to build on? Just clone sc4.. so all the mod teams can say goodbye to hardcore modding with hex-codes and back-engineering. More community friendly.. Design better a plugin database/storage organizing program (with dependencies in the back of the mind), and not to forget..a high resolution 6th zoomlevel!. I know people want 3d, but let's go back and stay realistic. bridges (slopes) will look ugly in 3d (like CitiesXL). I think we have to stick with SC4 as a goal. The texture is just seamless now, but can be made just as in SC4 of course!
Download Mirror 1 (MegaUpload) (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=HQW0J2S7) | Mirror 2 (dropbox) (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/552137/CityMania.zip)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg703.imageshack.us%2Fimg703%2F1655%2Fcitymania.png&hash=595b524eb748d26e87caf70af5fa36ed403b9d6f)
The picture looks good, unfortunately I can't install it, as my Norton Anti-Virus has a meltdown at the sight of it, I've got it out of quarantine four times each time telling Norton to ignore it, but it still says its a security risk and won't let me run it :(
Quote from: catty on December 24, 2010, 07:46:13 PM
The picture looks good, unfortunately I can't install it, as my Norton Anti-Virus has a meltdown at the sight of it, I've got it out of quarantine four times each time telling Norton to ignore it, but it still says its a security risk and won't let me run it :(
Weird, it's not a virus for sure. It's fresh baked by the compiler.. I don't know but i really didn't like Norton since begin 2000's.. to heavy.. i would almost say, turn it of for now and run it, afterwards turn it on.
I have no solution for this as i'm pretty sure this is no security risk.
Should I get you the green logo?
Here ya go if you need it:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcitymania.org%2Fgallery%2Fvar%2Fresizes%2FSplash-Screens%2Flogo_ver04.png%3Fm%3D1293309844&hash=4839f8f547646618da62bb802159273969649730) (http://citymania.org/gallery/index.php/photos/32)
Quote from: Nique on December 24, 2010, 07:48:59 PM
Weird, it's not a virus for sure. It's fresh baked by the compiler.. I don't know but i really didn't like Norton since begin 2000's.. to heavy.. i would almost say, turn it of for now and run it, afterwards turn it on.
I have no solution for this as i'm pretty sure this is no security risk.
While I trust you, that's not something I'm going to risk on this computer, but I will try it out on my backup computer once the holiday guests go home :)
Works fine on my computer. :) 640x480 and fastest graphics. The fan started running on this Inspiron 2650.
I really can't say anything about the programing.
It takes only 22mb of my memory here.
And yes, it takes up 100% cpu usage (25% on a quad core processor), of course it is not fine tuned. It should only update max 60 times a second (as you wont see the difference), the game-loop runs ~1500 times a seconds right now (so your processor has to do a lot of work). This explains why your fan starts running ;). Although .. The same happens when you run SC4... (not optimzed either).
We need to support multi core processors. I made this with Unity. Not that much of work .. but it shows that it is possible these days.. at least to clone the SC4 game itself.. with all the tools available. The biggest problem is, that most of us do not want a 'clone' but a next-gen game. And that is something we simply can't do..
For a sc4 clone i don't think we have to hire a set of 20 people to design models as this forum has enough 'artists' who want to share buildings too ;).
This vid gives me hope for procedural stuff.. :)
http://www.youtube.com/user/3DisFuntastic#p/u/5/jOLhnwllpgs
(Constructive solid geometry). Maybe something for Tomkeus with his Construction Layer Protoype)
Wow, the demo is great, really looks like SC4. :thumbsup: Works fine on my laptop (specs here (http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c01809896&tmp_task=prodinfoCategory&lc=en&dlc=en&cc=us&site=null&key=null&product=4000382)) with best graphics and 1024x768 resolution.
3D isn't so important for me at least, it would just slow down the game and wouldn't actually offer so much, IMO SC4 has better graphics than Cities XL even though (and because) it isn't 3D. The grid is the only thing bothering me, it's really annoying when for example FAR roads take 3x2 tiles space.
Also, would it be possible to export the current SC4 buildings to this clone? Maybe we could just take pictures of buildings in-game in every angle and then cut the actual buildings from the pictures and finally use these pictures as buildings in this clone. Copyrights could be a problem, though.
Video about procedural roads is awesome, if something like that would actually make it's way to CityMania, CM would probably be the best city building game ever made. :)
Dell Inspiron 2650 (http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/product/12481/review/inspiron_2650.html). Let's just say that it's selling point was that it is laptop that can play a DVD on a secondary monitor, and still function on the main screen!. In SC4 language, it can play medium tiles with no trees or shadows. City Detail? It's worth it.
Edit: Oh, and it cost $2000 in 2001.
works fine on on my laptop as well (1920x1080 resolution with best graphics)
Works fine on my laptop with best graphics and 1024x768 resolution. Specs (http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c01884734&tmp_task=prodinfoCategory&lc=en&dlc=en&cc=us&lang=en&product=4041458)
I'm interested in this. Not making a given guarentee, but how would I port buildings into this game?
Glad to see the work has resumed.
Hello, there!
Straight up: I love games, love city building games and would love to help.
I have no C# programming skills, but I can do html/java/php/flash actionscript and work with advanced photoshop for textures, interface and also with 3D.
Let me know if there is anything I can do to this awesome project!