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NAM: Development

Started by memo, April 29, 2007, 06:33:33 AM

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andreharv

#360
RebaLynnTS and Warrior:
I am going to make an elevated lofthouse Y interchange.  I don't know if I can use the files already in the NAM to make a highway ground Y interchange...I guess I should try it.

Carling:
I am a bit confused by your last post.  A orthagonal is simply the opposite of diagonal (it means straight).  The picture that you included simply shows a curve (a junction between diagonal highway and orthagonal highway).  If I can take a guess, it seems as though you want a Y interchange, which would have a highway branching out to the southeast (if we are looking at the picture you attached).


Quick update:  I have cut the model into LODs and I am trying to render them in gmax.  It looks like a few pieces are giving me error code=6.  I know that this is a broad error but I was wondering if someone might have a valid opinion of this.



carling

Quote from: andreharv on March 12, 2008, 10:15:00 PM

Carling:
I am a bit confused by your last post.  A orthagonal is simply the opposite of diagonal (it means straight).  The picture that you included simply shows a curve (a junction between diagonal highway and orthagonal highway).  If I can take a guess, it seems as though you want a Y interchange, which would have a highway branching out to the southeast (if we are looking at the picture you attached).

yes thats right but with restricted access on and off ramps like the m6 m61 interchange in the uk i have a picture if needed.

andreharv

#362
I see what you are saying now...like a highway merger piece.  Well it sounds like a good idea but I think I would want to reserve that thought until they did more work with the 4 tile wide highway (if they are still working on it).  The interchange you mentioned is a perfect example of this.  The M6 starts out as 8 lanes but divides into the 6 lane M6 and 5 lane M61.  I think the RHW team is developing a functional 8 lane highway now.

Jonathan

QuoteI see what you are saying now...
Glad someone does ;)
Just curious to see how a Orth  T intersection is on a diagonal.

memo

Happy Easter! ;D

Now I want to reveal some of the secretiveness of the last time by showing some of my newest additions that will hopefully be included in the NAM soon. :)

Firstly, I made some bugfixes, such as these annoying visual glitches of diagonal streets. In fact, it was already possible to avoid these issues using the diagonal street puzzle pieces. But regarding several screenshots, it seems that the users often don't make use of them. So I thought it was the time to fix that bug overall. ;)



Then I also improved some not so good looking (IMO) models of puzzle pieces. On the one hand, the transition between EL-Rail and GLR now has a more uniformly sloped model.



On the other hand, the EL-Rail over Road pieces got new supports.



We noticed that the rail tracks were actually hovering about 3 meters above the supports before. :D
Though, you should know that these were only minor changes and weren't much work.


Finally, I even managed to make a new puzzle piece for a long GroundHighway curve. This one, however, was far more work though. Get the model and paths working etc..



I'm sorry, this picture isn't totally up to date, but I think it will do. It's finished by now and works correctly. Now I hope we can compile a new NAM soon so as not to withhold these things from you. ;)

toxicpiano

It all looks magnificent!  &apls &apls &apls

Will there be an elevated highway curve?
I find that alcohol, taken in sufficient quantities, can bring about all the effects of drunkenness.

thundercrack83

Magnificent, memo! Absolutely magnificent!

RebaLynnTS

Wonderful work, keep it up.
Becca

Look for me at ... Becca At Bat

Haljackey

Wow, just awesome stuff memo!  I especially like the ground highway curve!

I have two quick questions about it though, if you don't mind me asking:
1.  Will the asphalt highway texture work on this puzzle piece?  If not, may I request one?
2.  Is this also possible for the elevated highway? 

Thanks for your time.

Best,
-Haljackey

Tropod

Abandonment Addition Proposal:
After I don't know how long, the abandonment issue has always been a problem for many many players since day 1 of SimCity. And it continues to do so.
I would like to propose a discussion here about the possibility of adding an Abandonment Plugin, most likely integrated within another Plugin/file.
Specifically: Building Development TGI ID: 6534284A / E7E2C2DB / E8DA7677 (file is currently in circulation - if anyone has any sort of list, that'd be great. I know it's currently in circulation from ST, by Ralpaels Abandonment Dilapidation Modd 1.2). And possibly, other additional files.
Despite the NAM docs pointing out that the TrafficPlugins won't remove Abandonment, users are still bent on it supposedly achieving this outcome. It's only because of a lack of understanding on players part, mainly due to the games (intended) design, that people continue to have this problem & continue to perceive that (current) NAM changes/additions is suppose to address this, when they start having abandonment problems.

So I would like to propose that we provide NAM users additional content by way of Abandonment plugin.
Any comments, feedback, pros, cons, thoughts, possible settings etc. Please feel free to fire away.


Myself personally, I use a personally modified version of the file (in conjunction with other, stuff/files). And while my playing style helps, I rarely ever have a problem.

jplumbley

Quote from: Tropod on March 23, 2008, 07:39:30 PM
Abandonment Addition Proposal:
After I don't know how long, the abandonment issue has always been a problem for many many players since day 1 of SimCity. And it continues to do so.
I would like to propose a discussion here about the possibility of adding an Abandonment Plugin, most likely integrated within another Plugin/file.
Specifically: Building Development TGI ID: 6534284A / E7E2C2DB / E8DA7677 (file is currently in circulation - if anyone has any sort of list, that'd be great. I know it's currently in circulation from ST, by Ralpaels Abandonment Dilapidation Modd 1.2). And possibly, other additional files.
Despite the NAM docs pointing out that the TrafficPlugins won't remove Abandonment, users are still bent on it supposedly achieving this outcome. It's only because of a lack of understanding on players part, mainly due to the games (intended) design, that people continue to have this problem & continue to perceive that (current) NAM changes/additions is suppose to address this, when they start having abandonment problems.

So I would like to propose that we provide NAM users additional content by way of Abandonment plugin.
Any comments, feedback, pros, cons, thoughts, possible settings etc. Please feel free to fire away.


Myself personally, I use a personally modified version of the file (in conjunction with other, stuff/files). And while my playing style helps, I rarely ever have a problem.


Actually... I dont think this is the greatest idea.  The CAM actually addresses this and uses a modified Ralpaels Abandonment Dilapidation Modd 1.2 if Im not mistaken.  If we were to include a NAM version of this it would cause a conflicting file with the CAM one.  I think Ripplejet should weigh in on this a bit more.

The thing is there is absolutely no way to prevent all abandonment.  Although, if you have the CAM and one of the new Traffic Simulators by myself and Mott installed this *theoretically* should reduce the amount of abandonment in your city.  But, remember alot of abandonment will have to do with the play style of the user and not the simulation of the game.  We have tuned it to be the best we can in both situations.
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Street Addon Mod - SAM

RippleJet

Quote from: jplumbley on March 23, 2008, 09:12:48 PM
Actually... I dont think this is the greatest idea.  The CAM actually addresses this and uses a modified Ralpaels Abandonment Dilapidation Modd 1.2 if Im not mistaken.  If we were to include a NAM version of this it would cause a conflicting file with the CAM one.  I think Ripplejet should weigh in on this a bit more.

CAM 1.0 does not include the Building Development Exemplar (0x6534284A, 0xE7E2C2DB, 0xE8DA7677).
However, CAM 1.1 will include it.

The reason for this is the need to increase the max value in the property Construction Resources Min/Max.
For CAM 1.1 we are currently looking at increasing this from 0x5000 to 0x6000.

CAM does not include Ralphael's Abandonment Mod where the Lot Developer Stay New Time property has been given a value ranging between 0x016D (365 days) and 0xFFFF (65,535 days ≈ 180 years).

However, CAM does include the abandonment reduction mod by bones1 that increases the Desirability Threshold Growth property for §§ and §§§ in the RCI Developer Exemplars (0x6534284A, 0x67CD5FA1, 0x0000____). This won't stop abandonment, but will keep higher wealth buildings from appearing in areas where the desirability only barely would support them, and thus leads to fewer abandonded or dilapidated buildings.

Since dilapidation and abandonment is the only way for a higher wealth lot to redevelop as a lower wealth lot, and since both CAM and NAM today aim at improving the simulation of real cities, I don't think Ralphael's Abandonment Mod should be included as such. At least not the 180 year version... If a version of it were to be included, it would have to be included in CAM.

However, I really don't see the need for not allowing a building to abandon if e.g. all roads to work have been cut off. In such a case abandonment is a good way of alerting the player that something is wrong, and needs the attention of the mayor...

Since Ralphael's No Dilapidation Mod (included in the Abandonment Mod) is listed as inCAMpatible, I would say the use of Ralphael's Abandonment Mod has diminished, at least among players having CAM. And so far there have been no complaints about excessive abandonment with the CAM.

Tropod

Thanks for the replies guys.

After having a bit more of a think about it, yeah perhaps a Reduced Abandonment Modd (RAM/RAD) (& separate thread) ought to be made in its own right. One with ^Default/NAM/CAM/Others etc settings as applicable. Only reason I suggested adding it to NAM, was because of perceived expectations I guess :/. People still complain about it (abandonment due commute) though, here, there and everywhere :D.
^By default: here I mean non-Maxis default settings for use by players. A default version aimed solely for addressing abandonment, for those without NAM/CAM/etc.

From what *I am aware*, as it stands none of the abandonment related modds actually have both the Building Development Exemplar & the Individual R/C/I Developer Exemplars: Such a (default) modd ought to have both really, to deal with the (players) issues more appropriately. Something that players can use that is not attached to an existing modd? Again, perhaps separate thread may be more appropriate, if warranted/necessary.

I wouldn't necessarily be looking at using any of the changes as those in ADM 1.2, since it doesn't actually adjust one of the more critical aspects: The Lot Developer Occupancy Thresholds 0x47E2C401. Personally, I think the values used here are to high & to close to each other, though I guess that's open to interpretation/viewpoint. I will say though, that it's interesting the causes/affects adjustments to this can make, especially if to high. I've been using an adjusted version for some time, and as earlier mentioned, I rarely ever have a problem.

RebaLynnTS

My only problem with abandonment is plopables, because even after you fix the thing that made them abandon, you sill have to replop them.

In my opinion, if you are going to take away all the challenges of the game, you might as well just paint a picture of a city on your screen. The best part of any game, is over coming the challenges, not circumventing them.

NOW .. back to our regularly scheduled program :)
Becca

Look for me at ... Becca At Bat

Tropod

Quote from: RebaLynnTS on March 24, 2008, 06:54:00 AM
My only problem with abandonment is plopables, because even after you fix the thing that made them abandon, you sill have to replop them.

In my opinion, if you are going to take away all the challenges of the game, you might as well just paint a picture of a city on your screen. The best part of any game, is over coming the challenges, not circumventing them.

NOW .. back to our regularly scheduled program :)

I would agree with that generally, however the problem is, not everyone agrees with the design on the game. That's why plugins exist for things like the commute & (especially) pathing algorithm & other various things. The game does have its inherent faults.

RippleJet

Quote from: Tropod on March 24, 2008, 03:59:30 AM
I wouldn't necessarily be looking at using any of the changes as those in ADM 1.2, since it doesn't actually adjust one of the more critical aspects: The Lot Developer Occupancy Thresholds 0x47E2C401. Personally, I think the values used here are to high & to close to each other, though I guess that's open to interpretation/viewpoint. I will say though, that it's interesting the causes/affects adjustments to this can make, especially if to high. I've been using an adjusted version for some time, and as earlier mentioned, I rarely ever have a problem.

I can agree with you on that! :)

Even if this property (as most Building Development properties in Ralphael's ADM) is missing in simcity_1.dat, its default values are obviously still used in the game.

The threshold for abandonment is set at an occupancy of 0.3 (30%), both in the game and by ADM.
If a building's desirability falls so low that only 30% of the maximum capacity is available, it will abandon.

The threshold for distress is set at an occupancy of 0.5 (50%) in the game and 0.45 (45%) by ADM.
If a building's desirability falls so low that only 45-50% of the maximum capacity is available, it will dilapidate.

I am a bit uncertain about what the third threshold, "renew", does though.
In the game is set at 0.68 (68%) and reduced to 0.5 (50%) in ADM.

What thresholds have you used in your adjusted version?
I could very well include reduced thresholds (even several optional ones if needed) with CAM 1.1... ::)

MandelSoft

The Smooth Highway curve is looking good, but will there be a OWR smooth curve?
Lurk mode: ACTIVE

bat

Great new work there, Memo! Looks wonderful! :thumbsup:

pilotdaryl

Withhold this from us any longer and I am going to blow. :P

:o OH NO, I'VE BLOWN! :D

ebina

Stoplight-controlled avenue intersections for the LHD version...


Please ignore the stoplights that are facing to road. Those are single prop(stoplights are built-in to the pole), and there's no LHD version of it... &mmm