RHW (RealHighway) - Development and Support

[deathtopumpkins]

Oh yay. Diagonal overpasses for the RHW. Glad you're doing those. 

Have you checked about those paths yet?

[nerdly_dood]

Cool - RHW-3 and diagonal things that I don't want to think hard enough to come up with the proper name for! 

[bat]

That's a nice addition to the overpasses, Tarkus!

[pagenotfound]

You guys are insane! (in the good way)  

But i have a couple questions. Are diagonal smooth ground to El highway transitions in the works?
Are curved road OWR and avenue puzzle pieces (like the rail curve puzzle pieces) in the works?

[nerdly_dood]

Not sure about one-way road, but road and avenue long-curve pieces are already available in the latest NAM. (The road pieces were already available, but recently the textures have been improved)

[gn_leugim]

NICE work on the  RHW-3 

[SamJam]

In fact, a few simple prefab interchanges would be nice on the whole.  Like one half of a diamond, or a nice 6 ramp parclo.  The current ramps make it a mind numbing process to build some of interfaces we see everyday, and some simple templates (either functional ramps, or devices to set the proper slopes) would be greatly appreciated.

I agree. Not only would it be easier, but it would look better too; trying to build a looping ramp using straight and diagonal pieces is great for flexibility but rough on appearance, making the loops look choppy. I posted about this a while back at Simtrop, suggesting that in addition to the MIS's ramp pieces we could also have choices for ploppable loops--perhaps 4x4, 6x6 and 8x8 tile sizes for example. I have no idea how it would affect the interchange visually, since they obviously would require height transitions between the grades of the overpass to the underpass... maybe the hole diggers could be a guide.

[Tarkus]

DTP, you were indeed correct on that path on the OWR/MIS +-Intersection.  I have gotten around to fixing the paths on it, and I've attached a Path Fix file here.  For convenience sake, I've also included the Rail-over-RHW-4 path fix from earlier in the same file, along with added Pedestrian paths for the Road/MIS + and OWR/MIS +.  The file is still less than 1KB.    I'll also attach it to the main sticky post.

Regarding the "Pre-Fab" idea (as suggested by TEG and SamJam): 

Please be prepared . . . this is going to be a lengthy one . . .

Back when I initially got involved with the RHW (back in September 2006), I had originally planned on going the "conventional"/"Pre-Fab" route.  However, I eventually decided against it for a number of reasons.  For those of you who have followed the transit modding developments for some time, undoubtedly, you've seen plenty of these Prefab interchanges being made for Maxis Highways over the years.  (If you haven't, see Haljackey's SC4 Archives thread, where Hal's reposted some pics of many of these, and other old transit modding developments).

By and large, these Prefab interchange projects have failed--I'd estimate that 90% of all attempts ended up in the "Interchange Graveyard".  Why?  They're just so much work to make, mainly.  And to boot, it's just a single interchange, fulfilling only a single transportation need in game. 

The MIS came about as a way around the rigid nature of Prefab interchanges, while also cutting the amount of modding/modeling/texturing work needed to provide the community with custom interchanges.  It is, however, in Version 20, still in its infancy.  There is undoubtedly lots of room for improvement--lots of things that could be added, lots of kinks that can be worked out.  I know there are probably quite a few out there frustrated with the slope tolerance on some of the MIS Ramp interfaces.  I'll admit I've even had difficulties myself on that front at times.  I have, however, been playing around with the RULs for those pieces, and I have made progress on making them a bit easier to work with.  It's somewhat Slope Mod related as well.

SamJam, I'm sure you're not alone on the curve appearances.  Fortunately for you, there are new MIS Smooth Curve Pieces in the works--including at least a couple 90-degree turns, which can later be ported over for usage as parts of loop ramps.  I'd rather break the loop ramp into smaller pieces than have it as a single larger piece--the smaller pieces can have additional uses.  As far as the "height transition" issue you mentioned, there are plans for a series of "filler" pieces, covering heights between ground level and 15m (eventually 30m) which will resolve that issue.

I hope that answers some questions, and my apologies for the long post.

-Alex (Tarkus)

[Meastro444]

thanks for the Fix Tarkus

anyway, i hope you are happy with my update:

Barriers added
dimensions corrected: it is 16 meters high, 16 meteres wide and 16 meters long. i just read that it should be 15, so thatll be in the next update.

to do: -apply the RHW texture on top of this model and see what it looks like and adjust the model accordingly.
         -Correct Height to 15 meters.

regards

Meastro444

[Patricius Maximus]

Tarkus: I think the same. I HATE pre-fab interchanges. I like versatility and customizability, which you appear to be trying to provide, which is great. The new features for v21 appear to be overwhelming, at least on this thread. Just provide another good readme and tab interface and I'll be OK.

[deathtopumpkins]

Thanks a lot for the fix Alex!

[simzebu]

Looking good, Meastro444!

For my ten cents, I think the idea of having a few parts of the more complex interchanges pre-built would be nice, but certainly low-priority. I would love to have some nice smooth flyovers (like for semi-directional T, or like this one, but without the second highway), rather than having to go way out to the side (6-7 tiles because of the length of orthogonal ramps). But again, since it's low priority, it's no problem if it takes a while, or even doesn't get done. Something I think is a little more important (but I understand that NAM slogan applies ["it'll be ready when it's ready]) is RHW4->MIS, sort of like this, where it drops a lane. Or would that one be OWR->MIS? Either way, it'd be nice.

One that I definitely don't want or expect you to make is this one-of-a-kind interchange in Albany:
The infamous "Albany Circle Stack"
I believe it would be termed somewhat of an ultra-compact turbine. Or, in the military, a "charlie foxtrot." Note how one of the right turns (787NB->9&20EB) actually passes under the left turn. My guess is this was done to avoid having to build over the river. Incedently, that left turn (787NB->9&20WB) is the one that nearly collapsed a few years ago. Unfortunately, it didn't fall entirely (it was clinging by a tiny bit of steel), so the sudden rush to bridge inspection was only state wide, and not national. Maybe if it had, 35W could have been spotted. Maybe not. Who knows.

EDIT: map link FAIL

[TEG24601]

Tarkus: I think the same. I HATE pre-fab interchanges. I like versatility and customizability, which you appear to be trying to provide, which is great. The new features for v21 appear to be overwhelming, at least on this thread. Just provide another good readme and tab interface and I'll be OK.

I like the customizability, but sometimes, I'd like to just plop a simple interchange and move forward.  Even if it was just the starter ramps spaced the proper distance from an overpass to make a decent Diamond, that would help immensely.

TEG

[Shadow Assassin]

One that I definitely don't want or expect you to make is this one-of-a-kind interchange in Albany:
The infamous "Albany Circle Stack"
I believe it would be termed somewhat of an ultra-compact turbine. Or, in the military, a "charlie foxtrot." Note how one of the right turns (787NB->9&20EB) actually passes under the left turn. My guess is this was done to avoid having to build over the river. Incedently, that left turn (787NB->9&20WB) is the one that nearly collapsed a few years ago. Unfortunately, it didn't fall entirely (it was clinging by a tiny bit of steel), so the sudden rush to bridge inspection was only state wide, and not national. Maybe if it had, 35W could have been spotted. Maybe not. Who knows.

I noticed that there's a road "stub" just past the right-most exits... a freeway project that never happened?

Puzzle pieces that allow compact setups would be excellent, particularly in an urban area... but they don't have to be a priority... it's better to get the existing stuff out.

[allan_kuan1992]

it probably is a failed highway project that died because residents or city planners didn't want it due to the infamous freeway -> suburban sprawl cycle.

- Allan Kuan

[j-dub]

Interesting New York's highways are not finished either. Who knows, maybe its for 15 years later it may be completed, or 50 years, or never if they finally allow flying cars. For a real long while, well over 2 decades, there were highways a drive a way from me that had dead end ramps, and pillars with nothing on them, made me wonder what happened, but  then finally it was for a highway they just finished late last year. I think that was sitting unfinished for 34 years before they finally built it. However there is other interstates they never finished, due to areas getting too built up, or residents fighting. Some highways really kill the area, look how the American interstate killed route 66, now thats a real RHW. Its too bad stuff never is finished though, theres a literal dead end highway in Wisconsin missing an overpass just barely, and a highway that doesn't go to the Wisconsin border from Illinois by a bunch of communities. They also had this highway planned across people's farms that by the time its done, I will be in my mid 40's. Thats just two discontinued midwest routes, I could go on and on, but it just goes to show you how the American highway system. That type of circle stack to me seems more like a Maxis highway kind of thing, due to how tight it is, I don't see how doing could work for the RHW, it looks like a piece junction. What was great about the RHW is you could shape a junction, rather than plop one with a piece.
And after 35 happened, lots of bridges were inspected in my area, and the conditions are actually really scary, but theres nothing you can do if you don't have Bill Gates money to repair a state wide problem. In fact before 35 happened, this one skyscraper city which for some reason they built on an island in my state had a bunch of bridges, but only one was still drivable, some how all the other ones were broke from some sort of boat accident. What a mess that was trying to drive through that city.

[Patricius Maximus]

Sometimes I'd like to just plop a simple interchange and move forward.

I don't do that in my regions, but I suppose that's because I'm more of a roadgeek. In fact, freeways and interchanges are integral part of my regions. Just look at my Patrician Showcase at ST to know what I'm talking about  .

Lastly, come to think of it, very few of my interchanges are even simple. No wonder I like customization  .

[Crissa]

Route 66 was discontinued.  That's not really 'killing' a route.  Some businesses were retained, some were not.  Such is life - even businesses on the interstates are not immune to creep from competing businesses.

Another comparison is 99 vs the interstates.  It still exists, as a built up freeway in some areas and a downtown strip in others.  I-5 didn't kill it at all.

-Crissa

[simzebu]

it probably is a failed highway project that died because residents or city planners didn't want it due to the infamous freeway -> suburban sprawl cycle.

- Allan Kuan

Exactly. In fact, that's one of three I can think of within city limits, just off the top of my head. That one was supposed to be the "South Mall Arterial" extend on the Rensselaer side (to the east pronounced REN-slur) all the way to "freebie" 90 (I-90, where it takes an obnoxious northbound diversion without toll. The rest of I-90 in the region is tolled as parts of the New York State Thruway. I could do a whole separate rant about that road) However, since 90 comes into Albany about a mile or two north of there anyway, it was basically worthless. On the other side, it goes under the Empire State Plaza (or South Mall), where it abruptly ends in a tight hairpin turn. It was intended to extend through that neighborhood right behind the plaza up to another highway that would have been built. And thank God it wasn't. That area is like our own little Greenwich Village, and the template for what the city should be like (but isn't). It ends abruptly, too. About a block past Washington is the DMZ, then a very bad neighborhood, then a neighborhood you don't enter without a death wish, then I90, then one of the richest towns in the region. This site has a lot of cool information about our highways and bridges, existing and unbuilt.

[allan_kuan1992]

well in vancouver, they built the dunsmuir and georgia viaducts as part of a highway through chinatown, and that project got "killed" after opposition from city officials and community residents. and this is why vancouver doesn't have any freeway other than highway 1 which cuts through a small part of the northeastern corner.

- Allan Kuan