Bixel's CAM & Normal HK Residential Monsters!!!

[RippleJet]

the 19,000 population is way too high. Real Hong Kong figures for these three towers is 1270 flats, and projected population of just 3,000. I think my original 12,000 was a good compromise. So I will update the file but I've kept the population figures at about 12,000.

Maybe they should be considered R§§ and not R§ in that case.

R§ sims require a floorage of 12.42 m² each, while R§§ sims require a floorage of 22.50 m² each.
As a R§§ building, it would have got only 10,586 residents.

The real world isn't quite a polarized as Maxis made it, having only three levels of wealth.
In real world Hong Kong, new buildings are probably close to R§§. But after a few years they become more and more R§, but never fully down to the same level as set by Maxis.

However, these are the restrictions we have to live with when making a simulator. You can't include all levels of detail as there are in RL.

Ideally we would be able to say that there are eg. 80% R§§ and 20% R§ living in a building.
Unfortunatly that is not possible in SC4

[snorrelli]

The corrections seem good. I didn't know what filling degree is, now I know. Stage seems better too, but the 19,000 population is way too high. Real Hong Kong figures for these three towers is 1270 flats, and projected population of just 3,000. I think my original 12,000 was a good compromise. So I will update the file but I've kept the population figures at about 12,000.

This concerns me a little. I have followed bixel's work and I know that he is interested in the realism of the HK buildings he creates. Not sure how the X Tool calculates occupancy but if the results are 6+ times greater than reality, then it worries me... 

R§ sims require a floorage of 12.42 m² each, while R§§ sims require a floorage of 22.50 m² each.
As a R§§ building, it would have got only 10,586 residents.

This sounds like it may be about right for office space... Are there different values for C and R occupancy?

[bixel]

Well after I thought about it you could have to Tina's Tenaments which are 6200 each and thats only 4x8. Soooo in light of that I can see why you want a higher figure, the buildings while quite tall are not quite as girthy as Tina's maybe I will update it to 14,000ish??

[RippleJet]

This concerns me a little. I have followed bixel's work and I know that he is interested in the realism of the HK buildings he creates. Not sure how the X Tool calculates occupancy but if the results are 6+ times greater than reality, then it worries me... 

If we are going for realism, we would have to make most buildings R§§, corresponding to 22.5 m² per resident.
The average floorage per person of newly built housing in Finland is shown below:

Year	Floorage per person
1960	14.3 m² per person
1970	18.9 m² per person
1980	26.3 m² per person
1990	31.4 m² per person
2000	35.3 m² per person
2006	38.0 m² per person

Looking at different countries and different years will give different values. The argument can go on for ever...
Maxis value of 12.42 m² per R§ is certainly not applicable to the industrialized world today, but maybe it was 50 years ago...
Note that the game uses the same floorage value for buildings of all tilesets, from Chicago in the 1930's to Houston/Euro today.
Today the R§ floorage would probably be a value representing bigger cities in developing countries.

If we want to base the capacities on real life capacities, we need to look at the floorage per person of that real life building.
If the floorage is greater than 22.50 m² per person (which may be the case for most buildings in Hong Kong today), we have to make that building a R§§ for SC4, not a R§.
On the other hand, R§ buildings are needed by the simulation in the game as well...

This sounds like it may be about right for office space... Are there different values for C and R occupancy?

The floorage requirements as set up by Maxis and also used by the "X Tool" are:

12.42 m² (134 sq.ft) per R§
22.50 m² (242 sq.ft) per R§§
51.50 m² (554 sq.ft) per R§§§

10.00 m² (108 sq.ft) per CS§
40.00 m² (430 sq.ft) per CS§§
100.0 m² (1076 sq.ft) per CS§§§

22.50 m² (242 sq.ft) per CO§§
32.17 m² (346 sq.ft) per CO§§§

The floor height is set to 6 m (20 ft) by Maxis, which takes into account the normally 50% taller floors, compared to RL buildings.

These values are average value. Thus, I'm not saying we have to follow them 100%.
Nothing stops us from making a R§ building with a floorage of 16 m² per person.
However, if the floorage will be 30 m² per person, then it needs to be a R§§, not a R§.


I want to emphasize, especially to Bixel, that, if we want to change the occupancy from the one suggested by the X Tool, you need to change the filling degree, so that all properties that are dependent on the building volume (L×B×H×Filling Degree) or the occupancy will be calculated correctly.
Otherwise, in the case above, you would have the Tin King Estate with 14,000 inhabitants, but with pollution and water & power consumption corresponding to 19,175 inhabitants...

If you change the occupancy from 19,175 down to 14,000 you also need to recalculate the growth stage of the lot. It might become a stage 9 instead of a stage 10 (the X Tool will do this if you right-click and select "Recompute stage for this growable lot").

And if the stage changes, please do remember to change the CAM Occupant Groups in the building exemplar as well!

[snorrelli]

Well... I suppose, for the sake of consistency, that we have to go with the values built in by Maxis... There's also clearly something I don't understand about "floorage per person." I have lived in some tiny places, including the equivalent of a Soviet dorm room, with barely enough space for a single bed, a toilet and a sink (more like a cell), but even that was more like 15-20m² - and it had a dish rack and a hot plate mounted above the toilet as a makeshift "kitchen"!!!

[Pat]

OMG snorrelli that is a tight fit...  well at least you could sit on the throne and cook something at the same time lol

[SimFox]

How is that space calculated? By area of the LOD multiplied by x where x is hight of a LOD/6? Or is it based on the area of the lot?

[RippleJet]

How is that space calculated? By area of the LOD multiplied by x where x is hight of a LOD/6? Or is it based on the area of the lot?

The total volume of the LOD is Breadth×Depth×Height (all taken from the property Occupant Size).
The total volume of the building is Filling Degree × LOD Volume.
The total floorage of the building is Building Volume / 6.

The lot size has nothing to do with the calculation of the building volume of floorage.

However, when dividing the occupancy achieved above with the lot size (number of tiles) you get the denisity per tile.
And that determines the growth stage of the lot in accordance with the Stage Limits (Stage versus Density).

[Toblakai]

Hello Bixel,

I managed to grow the R$ MaOnShanYStack (twice) and Ripplejet thought you might like to see the pictures. The're over here in the "CAM - Show us your CAM Cities" thread.

Toblakai.

[bixel]

Well. Since we are all seem to be growing some CAM cities. I thought it would be nice to get a nice Elementary School in there for the HK Estates. So I bring you the HKSAS Primary School!!! 



still working adding the details. However as you can see, I BATted the LOT. Since I just thought it would look a whole lot nicer. And it does!!! However I need to ask a great modder our there to tackle this BAT. Either Ripplejet - Barbyw or Twrecks (tho he seems absent)

What I am thinking of doing is creating some special LODs that allow props to be placed in certain parts of the school grounds and of course the Road, that way we might see some automata. I've done this before, with Dynasty court, you can place trees and animated people right on the building! However this one might be a little more tricky, but I could at least get some animated children in there. Anyway who ready to mod this monster?? 

[bixel]

ok, here it is in game. I am still going to do some more work on it- get some nice nightlights in there and stuff.






I will update it some more.

[Antoine]

Excellent ! But it would be a problem for people who use the european texture for road no ? 

[bixel]

well.. all I have to do is swap the texture and rerender. There will be an update with more roof modifications and nightlights.

[Antoine]

ok thank you 

[RippleJet]

However I need to ask a great modder our there to tackle this BAT. Either Ripplejet - Barbyw or Twrecks (tho he seems absent)

Great modder?

I would love to take a look at it nevertheless.
We are still tweaking the settings for civic buildings in te "X" Tool and this could be a great test building!

[toxicpiano]

Fantastic! 

[Andreas]

Excellent ! But it would be a problem for people who use the european texture for road no ? 

Well, it would be more feasible to add the road as base or overlay textures, so creating a Euro version just means to swap a DAT file with some textures (and I guess the ones that are needed here are in some texture pack already).

Anyway, that's one huge school, I've never seen something like this before. Huge hospital buildings are common, but thousands of pupils crammed together in a multi-level building is very strange for my European taste.

[bixel]

That is one option, just take the road out. I could totally do that.



thats the actual school.

[RippleJet]

This will be the school that has been asked for in those huge CAM cities!

And I'm not at all surprised to see that the original one is in Hong Kong!

[dmscopio]

looks great, bixel. it will be a great alternative for the SC4 school.