Being away for a year and now reading through the forums (also on other sites) I can feel a prevailing mood that makes me sad. So many comments are written so doubtfully, hesitant, even grumpily.
So often I read: "don't do this, don't do that" - "this will ruin everything" - "nobody will need this" - "this never will work" - "no player will use this" - ...
And being so sceptical to curiosity and afraid of anarchy and full of warnings and anxiety you feel the need to proclaim right behavior and correct playing - and in this cycle of concerns and overregulation a prevailing mood of sheepishness took all over the place.
Those few who may read this - I'd like you to remember:
Please encourage each other in having fun with the game. Don't preach as if every mistake you do within this game is an apocalypse for your pc, your soul and your people. You can ALWAYS start all over again. Most peoples mind - and so mankind - even survive SSD crashes. Redownload, restart, rebuilt. World won't end here, in Sim City.
Please be relaxed about people trying things, experimenting with content, even with LUA scripts and are happy with funny unusefull nonworking stuff. Let them be happy in first place.
We might be an old community - but this isn't giving us the right to become patronizing and pessimistic and demotivating.
Please remember: this is a game.
Games are created for people to have fun. So don't you ever try to limit the fun for other players. There is no good reason to do so. Except of youth protection maybe.
Try to be helpful but not categorical.
If it is fun to a person to create something – please try to respect this best you can. Of course you can share your knowledge but please don't be fundamental and raise your voice as if you were the ruler of public opinion "Nobody will need this ..." Who are you to speak for the whole mankind by using such terms like "Nobody ..." and "Everybody and (very often) "This community want/don't want...".
You know, the sentence "this community is dying" f.e. I'm reading since 2007. It didn't change – you buy it or you don't buy it. You, yourself make it true or false. The world is dying, education is dying, TV is dying. Shure thing - following generations should be all depressed as you had all the good times and they will get nothing.
Please be generous instead.
Of course, me too, the older I get the more this world seems weird to me and sometimes I'm afraid to go outside because on the web I did see they are all freaks and perverts outside there.
Don't get overwhelmed by this general pessimism that originates from a primal instinct - as all animals are always cautious leaving their holes: wo will attack me? But this instinct can become an obsession on the cultural level – maybe in particular these days – to see everything as a threat to everything. A threat to your game, a threat to your pc. A threat to justice, a threat to your opinion, a threat to your people and your country. This most! Everything is a threat to the people - the air, the water, the food. The whole world - a threat! But "the people" - when you're thinking this way - is just an abstract idea like when you say "this community". It's just something you imagine. And easily becomes a vessel for all your sorrows you feelings these days. And in social media you ship those vessels full of pessimism around the world.
Try to remember: you don't need to become a controll freak and defend the game and mankind against every uncommon thought. Against all the freaks outside there you know about.
Let it go, smile to your neighbour.
Keep it friendly, open minded ... and optimistic.
Except of Godzilla and Propox (rip) and despot major Fantozzi (still alive) - there never was a really dangerous threat to the game. Especially not the creative ideas of other players.
[Maybe my impression is wrong – so if you skip reading this and laughing at me I'll gladly join laughing]
I wouldn't say the community is dying, especially now that we have regular NAM updates and the upcoming AMPS. Stagnating, on the other hand... Where is all the variety in the lots? It's all just generic IRL buildings...
I would think that the SC4 community at large has reached a soothing state of stability after the last round of tumultuous obstacles.
- We're past the arrival of SimCity 2013 and Cities:Skylines. By this time, almost everyone who prefers either of these games has already jumped ship, and those who were lured in by the novelty but ultimately didn't like the way things were done in those games, have returned to SC4.
- Post-NAM 36 to 37 crisis. After the installer replacement, NAM development has sped up considerably, getting lots of new content, fixes and expanded functionality for all players to enjoy. Seeing such a strong resurgence from arguably the most important mod for the game after its last big crisis makes me optimistic about the community's future.
- We've had sustained advances in reverse engineering numerous aspects of the game, and as a result we keep getting all kinds of fantastic mods and auxiliary programs to keep the experience fresh. We even have stuff which could have been considered impossible or unimaginable a meager 5-6 years ago!
- The silver lining of the fall of numerous smaller SC4 content sites has been getting this content re-hosted and concentrated in the two biggest sites, SC4D and Simtropolis. Contrary to what it might seem at first, this is a good thing, because this content can now reach a much wider audience than it originally could, and new generations of players (however few they might be) now have the privilege of having a super massive buffet of custom items and mods to make their game feel personal and unique.
- There's always people who feel entitled for things to go in very particular ways and get upset when they don't. It's important to be open-minded when situations don't go the way one might want them to, because then we miss out on the nice things which also appear along the way.
- I very much concur with Fantozzi's opinion on having to think more healthily about the game. It's supposed to be fun, we shouldn't fall prey of thinking that every change is a threat to a sacrosant status quo ante, or that there's one only 'correct' way to play the game.
- I believe that those of us who are more experienced in the community should also help the newcomers get up to speed. Not by instilling very particular 'correct ways' to play, but instead by helping them get familiar with content and methods which would get them closer to how they want to enjoy the game. This will sometimes mean directing these players towards stuff we might not like or disagree with.
- Finally, seeing disagreements on the way the game should be played and/or modded is a positive thing! It means that the community is large and diverse enough that it can fit different idiosyncracies about how to best enjoy one of the most legendary city simulators out there.
We must admit that this game has dragged on - it's been 20 years already, my children have grown up .... But this game still lives on with me ... Fantastic !!!&apls &apls &apls
About there being a "correct" way to mod the game... This has led to a glut of samey lots, and there isn't really any variety anymore, it's all based on realism and no one bothers to make anything really unique anymore. Like, where are the Sci-fi waterfront lots? How about some more abstract or surreal lots? At the very least bring back the SC2K arcologies even if they're pure eyecandy...
Quote from: Wiimeiser on May 10, 2021, 06:30:39 PM
About there being a "correct" way to mod the game... This has led to a glut of samey lots, and there isn't really any variety anymore, it's all based on realism and no one bothers to make anything really unique anymore. Like, where are the Sci-fi waterfront lots? How about some more abstract or surreal lots? At the very least bring back the SC2K arcologies even if they're pure eyecandy...
I do think that this is a clear weak point in SC4 modding. There used to be some teams who specifically focused on ideas along these lines, perhaps the most notable one I know of is SimMars. After many years, even if I haven't ever used their content, I still admire them big time for doing a full mod set to recreate a possible colonization of the red planet!
Quote from: fantozzi on May 10, 2021, 10:42:22 PM
And sometimes poor members are attacked with knowledge. I noticed it not here in this forum. I must confess.
Ahh, I really started to wonder what you're talking about, since I'm only reading this forum. Maybe you should post your thoughts at places where you noticed those "bad vibes" as well, in case you didn't do that already?
Andreas! Glad to see you. Hope you're alive and kicking. Indeed my complaints aren't welcome everywhere and Sc4Devotion is already the very last english SC4 site I can post and upload and being on the nerves of the community. If Tarkus kicks me ... next will be the german SimForum.
So please let's not discuss those circumstances - who should be adressed with my initial post - as such an attitude of exposing community members indeed wouldn't belong here. And if you get the impression I want to expose certain members of course I will delete this thread imediatly. I was hoping to discuss something gerneral here and not starting some kind of brawl.
Quote from: fantozzi on May 10, 2021, 11:52:15 PM
If Tarkus kicks me ... next will be the german SimForum.
Don't worry--I enjoy having you around! :thumbsup: And I think you've brought up an interesting topic that's created some good discussion.
Speaking from the NAM side . . . we've actually been gaining a number of new development team members (
Flann,
LucarioBoricua, and
Jiwoahn), who have helped make our post-NAM 37 "revival" all that more lively.
Being that the game is "SimCity", there is a built-in predilection for many players and content creators to gravitate toward emulating the real world. That's admittedly my own predilection. But is that the only valid way to play SC4? No. And I'll also note, even among those going for "realism", there's a lot of differing opinions as to what constitutes it.
I will note, however, that the only way those other ways of playing SC4 will take off is if others create content that suits them. SimMars, as Lucario mentioned, is indeed a great project that really envisioned a new way of playing SC4--but sadly, it's been dormant for a good number of years. From my own experience with building up the RHW from
qurlix's initial, very promising idea, the old saying "build it and they will come" is very much true of the SC4 world.
There are, of course, matters of balance, and of what the game's engine allows--but otherwise, this is an open-ended game with a lot of room for creativity. And that's what's great about it--and certainly why I've been playing (and/or heavily modifying :D) SC4 for over 17 years now.
-Alex
Unfortunately, I seem to be the only one interested in the kind of stuff I'm after, and I can't make content to save my life...
Quote from: LucarioBoricua on May 10, 2021, 12:32:36 PM
I would think that the SC4 community at large has reached a soothing state of stability after the last round of tumultuous obstacles.
- We're past the arrival of SimCity 2013 and Cities:Skylines. By this time, almost everyone who prefers either of these games has already jumped ship, and those who were lured in by the novelty but ultimately didn't like the way things were done in those games, have returned to SC4.
And to add: we are past the "crash to desktop when hovering over network enabled pieces bug" and we are past the "propox bug" we are past EIDE hard drives and on SSD and those computer aces showed me even how to get it all working on windows 10.
If we are true - since maybe 2017/2018 we have the best Sim City 4 ever.
Quote from: Tarkus on May 11, 2021, 01:30:13 AM
I will note, however, that the only way those other ways of playing SC4 will take off is if others create content that suits them. SimMars, as Lucario mentioned, is indeed a great project that really envisioned a new way of playing SC4--but sadly, it's been dormant for a good number of years. From my own experience with building up the RHW from qurlix's initial, very promising idea, the old saying "build it and they will come" is very much true of the SC4 world.
-Alex
I almost forgot. I was worried lately chinese could be first on Mars. But now as you mentioned it, I should be fully relaxed. It's true. Sims were first.
And if custom content was somewhat flimsy on the futuristic end, on the other side SC4 content at least always was up to date having recharging stations for electric cars, a "Like Factory" and a vaccine laboratory (thanks to MattB325).
You really can't say the game became old. It may be old by years but not by content.
But ... [my worry].. is this true for us the same way?
Are we still young and sexy? Or is it just my own depression that makes me hear aching bones and scuffling feet and the gnarly finger always up warning: "don't run, take it slowly, build up your plugin folder with patience, learn using NAM step by step. Start with a small map first, avoid the eternal commuter bug."
Of course not! Of course I will download all at once and making a big mess in my plugins and worsen it all with the lot editor and without reading any manual and then come here and ask for help. If new player would be that way - first studying sexual intercourse at the university and then, when they're shure about, falling in love, I would be worried more as if they ignor all the warnings like they always did all the times before.
Tell me I'm wrong, and I'll be happy, but didn't we, a little bit, arrive here, when it comes to talk about Sim City 4:
Father and Son (https://vimeo.com/457091004) %confuso
By more interesting lots, I mean I want to see more stuff like this (https://community.simtropolis.com/forums/topic/759351-raymonds-newbie-thoughts/?page=26&tab=comments#comment-1753671), Golden Oaks Library, Cassopolis, the SC2K arcologies, etc.
Quote from: Wiimeiser on May 14, 2021, 02:29:02 AM
By more interesting lots, I mean I want to see more stuff like this (https://community.simtropolis.com/forums/topic/759351-raymonds-newbie-thoughts/?page=26&tab=comments#comment-1753671), Golden Oaks Library, Cassopolis, the SC2K arcologies, etc.
:laugh: Raymond definitely proofs me wrong. :laugh: This community still is a blast furnace to forge creative content from freewheeling imagination.
I wonder how we compare to the Sims community. MTS just had ~7 uploads for TS4, only two of which were Sims.
Relatedly, I may have cracked the code as to why EA reverted the Origin version update: EA has a strict and broad policy that says to not make the fans happy. More evidence? When The Sims 4 had a poll, the top two options got stuff packs, with one option being reduced to one feature, while the least voted option got a game pack complete with a whole world and several new gameplay features. Doesn't that seem suspicious?
Maybe it's just tinfoil hat paranoia, though. I have that reputation in the MLP fandom...