RHW (RealHighway) - Development and Support

[Wiimeiser]

The game wouldn't even allow me to plop a SPUI under EMIS. But L0 MIS under elevated SPUI works fine.

[jondor]

Are there any plans for RHW 12 yet?

We only have the designated ID range for it, and which RHW-12 are you talking about? (I exercise an extreme emphasis on differentiating between S-networks and C-networks, and P57 RHW networks will be labelled in this fashion, save for RHW-2, 3, MIS, and 4.) 12S is doable, but 12C is NOT.

And if you looked at my previous post,...

The P57 IID scheme had to be revised many times (and we're only at Alpha Build 3), and the absolute limit on what to add is pretty much final: 11 different widths of draggable RHW, times three to account for L1 and L2 variations, plus an additional 6 for L3 and L4. The final widths are RHW-2, RHW-3, MIS, RHW-4, 6S, 8S, 10S, 12S, 6C, 8C, and 10C. All of which will be receiving L1 and L2 variations, and only MIS, RHW-4, and 6S are receiving L3 and L4 variations. Only two widths (12S and 10C) won't be making a début.

Depending on time constraints and just how much work we can get done and how fast, the 12S and 10C may be able to be included, but no guarantees.  They may have limited functionality to start, but now that the IID scheme is nailed down, I've been including them in remastering the textures and models, and the RULs will just be a CPFR job from their sister networks.

Even if they don't make it in this release, they'll have most of their groundwork laid down already.

[drjumbajookiba]

thankyou

[Twyla]

There's already a big dead zone with the 8S already, so a 5-tile 12C made using puzzle pieces would be no different. Besides, the extra tile would be needed for capacity, anyway.

A 10C would overhang similarly to the 6S, and its overhang would be slightly wider than that of the 6S. Upscale that analogy to the 12C and you'd have the same footprint-to-asphalt relationship as the 6S-8S relationship.

That hits on three of my irks with RHW - not with RHW itself, but that there's only so much that can be done within SC4 itself:

1 ~ Sunken RHW-6S: When trying to keep things reasonably compact, the 6S shoulders disappear into the embankments.  In the case of 10C, this would have the paths/automata inside the embankments.
2 ~ Capacities (6C/8C/10C and 8S/10S/12S): Sadly, a limitation of SC4 itself - nothing can be done in this regard without modifying SC4 itself (which is a no-no).
3 ~ Tunnels (or lack thereof): Again, a limitation of SC4 itself, as RHW is based on the unfinished 'dirt road' network - which was never intended to have tunnels in the first place.


Simply throwing an idea out there but, given BlueLightning's RHW-4 Suspension Bridge...  Perhaps "RHW Tunnel Starters" in 6S, 8S, 10S, and 12S varieties?  (Sadly, I don't see a way to do these for the C networks.)  Actually use MHW to create the tunnels but the models, textures, pathing, etc follow RHW norms.

Alternately, there may be potential in the same method proposed for making bridges (simply adding the tunnel models at the point where the zero-slope RHW penetrates the ground).

[jondor]

I don't think the zero-slope method works for cutting into the ground (although I don't know if anyone has actually tried it).

As for the variable tunnel models, again running into SC4 limitations, the game supports exactly one tunnel model per network.  It can't be overridden via RUL2 (nor can bridges) and while it can be T21'd, it shares a tile ID (0x00000000, in fact) with every other network's tunnel tile and the end tiles of bridges.

There are some prototype tunnel puzzle pieces around, but what they do is blank out the model (setting the Resource Key to all zeros) and plop down offset models via T21 on the adjacent tile (akin to a cosmetic piece).  The trick is that there is also only one tunnel path file per network, so running an STR line through a tunnel and plopping down a cosmetic tunnel has the poor trains jumping and running through the side walls.  Although this may be possible to mitigate by overloading the single path file with paths representing all possible connecting networks at once, automata may still jump though.

The 10C overhang is actually only 0.5 meters wider than the 6S, so the automata will not disappear into the embankment.  But, (and this is just my opinion so feel free to ignore) if you're making a sunken 6S, you shouldn't be placing the embankments in the overhang tiles in the first place, even if it's technically possible.  Just my $0.02

[Wiimeiser]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us
The Hotfix didn't seem to fix this. Can only be fixed with filler pieces most of the time.
Also, what's happening with the DDRHW?

[GDO29Anagram]

For the record, anyone who has been a veteran RHW user (from the days when it was called Rural, I mean) will remember this: RHW-6S was a TWO-tile network. Because two 6S's would be four tiles wide and only half of those tiles would transmit traffic, the RHW-6C was created as a compact alternative to the 6S, with the additional benefit of having 50% more capacity than the 6S. Even still, those who used 6S instead would know when to drag the shoulder piece, because there wasn't any overhanging shoulder from the main lanes. That's right, kids, the C in 6C was supposed to mean "Compact".

The development of overhangs (and the convergent development of the 8C, which was at first the 8R) pretty much dismantled the definition of the 6C and prompted the differentiation between S-networks and C-networks (What's now the 8S and 10S were just called RHW-8 and RHW-10) and the redefinition of 6C from Compact to Combined. 6C still has a greater capacity than 6S, but the fundamental difference between the two is that one's centred and inseparable and the other is separable.

And for those who plough through the ground with a 6S, why not level the side of it so you don't have a buried shoulder? (For the record, only the shoulder gets buried; the rest of the lane is too far from the edge.)

And as of you, Wii, I just recreated your problem successfully.



Since P57 leaves the SPUI pieces untouched, it would've slipped right through to NAM 31 otherwise. To the left is how the FlexSPUI places tiles along its sides represented using the Road network, as to not induce an override. To the right is what you were doing.

You have what's known as the Wiimeiser Bug*. This happens with only one side of the SPUI where if you drag one side of the RHW clean through the tiles and reclick, the override will break and it won't reconnect anymore.

If it something that simply wasn't written in, a bit of RUL-2 code along the lines of this is all that's needed.

Code Select Expand

SPUI_Piece,RHW-4_Stub=SPUI_Piece,SPUI_Ramp_Piece

(That's not how we write our RUL-2 code, by the way; We use their instance IDs. I did it that way because the public wouldn't know what they are without having to look it up.)

* - Coined by NAM Team Pony Ganaram. It's up there with the Twyla Bug and the Nicole Richie Effect.

[AngryBirdsFan436]

Can the ERHW-6C go over the groudn FlexSPUI? Because I see glitches when I drag it over it.

[GDO29Anagram]

Can the ERHW-6C go over the groudn FlexSPUI? Because I see glitches when I drag it over it.

The current iteration has a few RUL-side limitations (technically not limitations, but just not enough RUL-2 code) where there are a number of unsupported setups and there are others that are currently unstable. For the most part, it's only stable when going over or under RHW-4, and going over (to an extent) all the other RHW widths.

In other words, if it does work but it glitches out like that, don't use it.

[Tarkus]

FlexSPUI has its issues.  To that effect, I added this caveat in the Version 5.0 readme:

Please note that this is the first iteration of FlexSPUI functionality. Some particular setups may not be fully supported or stable yet--in these situations try clicking around with the network tool to attempt to get the Override RULs to resolve properly.

I've run into that particular situation myself, and the clicking around trick usually does it for me. 

The Hotfix doesn't include any FlexSPUI fixes.  My plan all along has been to gut the code and re-write it once P57's far enough along, and then release the updates as part of NAM 31.  The whole P57 spec has actually undergone further redesign, so it'll be awhile still.  With any sort of RUL2/override-related issue in the present public release, it's not going to get fixed until NAM 31, even if we decide to release another Hotfix before then.

-Alex

[Haljackey]

For the record, anyone who has been a veteran RHW user (from the days when it was called Rural, I mean) will remember this: RHW-6S was a TWO-tile network. Because two 6S's would be four tiles wide and only half of those tiles would transmit traffic, the RHW-6C was created as a compact alternative to the 6S, with the additional benefit of having 50% more capacity than the 6S. Even still, those who used 6S instead would know when to drag the shoulder piece, because there wasn't any overhanging shoulder from the main lanes. That's right, kids, the C in 6C was supposed to mean "Compact".

I remember those days. I still have a 'wealthified' shoulder for the second tile of those networks with later releases. Example:



Not to mention median boxes for the old lighting system in 6C Networks:


The only thing I don't like about the 'new' 6S networks is although they're only one tile, you can't really do much with the second one. The shoulder overhangs and thus ploppables as simple as open grass areas can block the shoulder.

[Twyla]

As behind as I am due to my unforeseen extended absence, I'm unsure what all I could do to contribute at this point.




















Textures, perhaps?  (Since they're being remastered)

[GDO29Anagram]

Unless Jondor manages to ninja me as I was getting my info together, the texture remaster Jondor is referring to is merely refining the default textures in such a way that they're more geometrically accurate and that they blend in flawlessly when they're used as the textures on an S3D. That's right kids, S3Ds make textures look funny. Actually, they just make them look lighter and, depending on the S3D settings, make them look all choppy. That's why puzzle-piece textures are actually darker when you look at them through the Reader.

Also,... Need I bring up a standard the MUTCD has?

Section 3A.06  Functions, Widths, and Patterns of Longitudinal Pavement Markings
Standard:
01   The general functions of longitudinal lines shall be:
A. A double line indicates maximum or special restrictions,
B. A solid line discourages or prohibits crossing (depending on the specific application),
C. A broken line indicates a permissive condition, and
D. A dotted line provides guidance or warning of a downstream change in lane function.
02   The widths and patterns of longitudinal lines shall be as follows:
A. Normal line—4 to 6 inches wide.
B. Wide line—at least twice the width of a normal line.
C. Double line—two parallel lines separated by a discernible space.
D. Broken line—normal line segments separated by gaps.
E.  Dotted line—noticeably shorter line segments separated by shorter gaps than used for a broken
line.  The width of a dotted line extension shall be at least the same as the width of the line
it extends.
Support:
03   The width of the line indicates the degree of emphasis.
Guidance:
04   Broken lines should consist of 10-foot line segments and 30-foot gaps, or dimensions in a similar ratio of line
segments to gaps as appropriate for traffic speeds and need for delineation.
Support:
05   Patterns for dotted lines depend on the application (see Sections 3B.04 and 3B.08.)
Guidance:
06   A dotted line for line extensions within an intersection or taper area should consist of 2-foot line segments
and 2- to 6-foot gaps.  A dotted line used as a lane line should consist of 3-foot line segments and 9-foot gaps.

In other words, a 3:1 gap-to-line ratio, with 30:10 feet as the minimum. This is why RHW's lane dashes are more farther apart. Historically, however, RHW had greyer asphalt, rumble strips, and reflectors. However, reflectors were dropped because they were directionally biased, and that would make RULing twice as hard. (If you really want reflectors, they MUST be directionally neutral.)

As a third-party texture set, however, you're welcome to continue, but you'll need to re-order them because of P57. A fundamental change with P57 is the IID structure. Whereas 0x5EB4B100, for example, would be the texture for RHW-4 prior to P57, it would be 0x57020000. A lot neater than the old scheme which, if you managed to look at it, is an absolute mess.

EDIT: Because I feel like it,...



Yeah. Me, too.

EDIT 2: Transit texture editing 101. If you know the IID and have the textures and the program (which is the Batch PNG to FSH program http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2255 , not the one shown in the tutorial), you can modify any texture you want.

EDIT 3: It was this tutorial. http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=4140.0

[Twyla]

Tried out a few tricks and.... well, does this version look any better?

[jondor]

One little point I'd like to clear up is that in reality, it's not the S3D tiles that make the textures look funny, it's actually the ground textures that the game darkens.  S3Ds come out with the exact RGB color you feed in, texture-based tiles come out a bit darker.

For reference, in Paint Shop Pro at least, a gamma correction of 0.88 gives as close to an exact match as 24-bit colors will allow.

One other factor I should mention is that the new S3D settings we are switching to rely on embedded mipmaps.  That is, the FSH files include not only the full sized 128x128 image, but also scaled down versions at 64x64, 32x32, 16x16 and 8x8.  I have a slightly clunky tool that produces these files for development use, but I plan on releasing a more full-featured version along the lines of EA's FSHed program, but with DBPF (dat file) and PNG support.

[Blue Lightning]

Aaaaand it's done.



EDIT: Save for the wash effect and the menu icon.

[gn_leugim]

Nice work  

[Kuewr665]

I have a suggestion for the lanes being added to the left. An RHW-4 with a 2 tile median could be widened to RHW-10 without an empty median by having its lanes added to the median. The ramps would use the existing RHW-10 ramps.

As in, overriding RHW-4 into the 10S outer shoulder, with the 8S inner shoulder accompanying it to the side?

Theoretically doable, but you need special overrides for it.

Something like that, but I think the inner shoulders for the RHW-8S and RHW-10 are the same.

[GDO29Anagram]

Something like that, but I think the inner shoulders for the RHW-8S and RHW-10 are the same.

Guess what's also RHW-4? The inner shoulders.

[Kuewr665]

Something like that, but I think the inner shoulders for the RHW-8S and RHW-10 are the same.

Guess what's also RHW-4? The inner shoulders.

I think I meant to type outer shoulder...