NWM (Network Widening Mod) - Development and Support

[Tarkus]

Not just you. I also hope to see overpasses and underpasses for new roads and Avenues of NWM. I think all we want.

I want them, too.  Guess I should make some.   Fortunately, a fairly easy task, particularly now that the model revamp is in good shape.  And something else NWM-wise that's semi-related is shaping up, too.  Just what I can't say yet.

-Alex

[Monorail Master]

I really want a OWR-4 split into two OWR-2's, and a OWR-1 to MIS conversion. Those two will come in handy soo much! Mainly when it comes to using OWR-4 and EL-RHW-4 to build an urban interchange.

[Opkl]

I really want a OWR-4 split into two OWR-2's, and a OWR-1 to MIS conversion. Those two will come in

All I can say is:

YES YES YES! Opps, almost forgot to say please. 

[j-dub]

Well, its not like it is impossible to build MIS infront of OWR-1 right now, there just is no present texture transition piece.

[interim]

I have to say, I love how it looks when I'm laying all the networks down, but I can't seem to get the neighbor connections to work properly. Sure, I can place the special neighbor connector but it doesn't actually do any connecting, just make it look like it is connecting, and it never asks me if I want to connect to my neighbor. Secondly, and I even saw this in your preview picture on one of the first pages, when using Road TLA-5 to connect to a neighbor by dragging to a boundary, both the arrows face in one direction. Obviously this would be impossible since the incoming lane should be coming into the city, it would not be possible for it to transfer out if vehicles are coming from that direction. Does that mean sims can't travel in on that road?

It's nice to have, but it doesn't seem to have as high a capacity as simply using the avenues that came with the game because the avenues here seem to be three tiles wide and I can't place them in my existing cities. I end up using RHM instead, but then my buildings all get abandoned because of the "long" commute, forcing me to rely on Maxis roads anyway. Rrrrgh. Am I doinitwrong?

[kassarc16]

Sure, I can place the special neighbor connector but it doesn't actually do any connecting, just make it look like it is connecting, and it never asks me if I want to connect to my neighbor.

Drag road(s) like normal and make connections, then plop the NWM pieces down on the edge over the road(s). It should work like a charm.

[interim]

I did do that, but it seems like it puts the neighbor connector one tile before the edge, and both of the arrows still point out of the city, neither of them in. I love how the NWM roads look, and I really want to use them. It seems I shouldn't replace my avenues with TLA-5 however, regardless of how much better they look. My avenues are already overloaded, don't want the problem to get worse, haha...

Since I can't get that to work, any suggestions for a two-tile wide 'avenue' using NWM? I cannot seem to get anything with enough traffic flow-through in my city, they just pound one single avenue relentlessly regardless of how much I beef up surrounding roads.

Working on getting a couple screens, just a moment.



Here's one showing a RHM highway connecting with the TLA-5 transition. It seems impossible to place the transition on top of this intersection. Removing the RHM highway connections and attempting to simply place the transition proved unsuccessful. Both arrows still point out of the city, and the RHM pieces seem to be completely unable to connect with the transition piece (gives 'reserved' warning).

[Tarkus]

Secondly, and I even saw this in your preview picture on one of the first pages, when using Road TLA-5 to connect to a neighbor by dragging to a boundary, both the arrows face in one direction. Obviously this would be impossible since the incoming lane should be coming into the city, it would not be possible for it to transfer out if vehicles are coming from that direction. Does that mean sims can't travel in on that road?

If you see a pic on one of the first few pages, take it with a grain of salt as to how to use the NWM in its current state.  Those posts are 3 1/2 years old and marked a very early stage of development, when we did not know nearly as much about neighbor connections as we do now. 

To build an NWM Neighbor Connection, simply follow the directions outlined in the NWM mod's Readme file, under "A Note About Neighbor Connections":

In order to build a neighbor connection for one of these networks, simply build the neighbor connection as normal by dragging the Road tool to the edge of the city tile, then place the appropriate Neighbor Connector for the network over top of the neighbor connection arrows. The Neighbor Connector pieces have special pathing that gets around the game's limitations on neighbor connections.

Please note that you'll need to demolish that RHW-2 intersection.  There is no way to have an intersection and a Neighbor Connector Puzzle Piece on the same tile, and there are no plans to make any pieces of that nature. 

It's nice to have, but it doesn't seem to have as high a capacity as simply using the avenues that came with the game because the avenues here seem to be three tiles wide and I can't place them in my existing cities. I end up using RHM instead, but then my buildings all get abandoned because of the "long" commute, forcing me to rely on Maxis roads anyway. Rrrrgh. Am I doinitwrong?

I'm a little confused by your phrasing here, but will try to intepret as best I can.  If your dual-tile NWM networks (i.e. TLA-5, etc.) do not appear to have the same capacity as your default Avenues, then you have an incompatible Traffic Simulator Plugin installed somewhere in your Plugins.  The TLA-5 should, in fact, have a higher capacity than a default Avenue.  The Network Widening Mod requires the use of the NAM Unified Traffic Simulator, included with NAM Version 29 (or the current version of the NAM Traffic Subsystem), though Simulator A in the "Previous NAM Simulators Package" will also provide at least limited support for NWM networks.

Attempting to use versions of other simulators from previous NAM builds, such as the old "Standard", "Better Pathfinding" and "Perfect Pathfinding" plugins will result in severely reduced NWM network capacity, as will using pre-NAM transport mods from 2004 or earlier.  Having one of these Plugins installed in addition to the NAM Unified Traffic Simulator will also cause the same complications.  hailman's "Variable Route Buses" Plugin is, despite the lack of warning on the upload description, is also a modified traffic simulator which is completely incompatible with the NWM and will instantly cause any RHW system to cease functioning.  (If that Plugin is in fact, in your Plugins folder, it may explain some of the RHW difficulties you've experienced--though RHW systems should generally not be used in the same manner as Roads/One-Way Roads/Avenues or NWM Networks, as being a Highway-type network, they do not like to allow direct access to RCI zones.)

I also noticed you mentioned networks that are "three tiles wide".  While some initial development was shown on this front on the initial pages of this thread (in posts 3 1/2 years ago), you won't find them in the current public version of the NWM and they are not yet available.  Development has resumed on them, however, and it is likely you will see them in an NWM release in the not-too-distant future.

-Alex

[interim]

Wow, thanks for the huge reply, Alex. I really appreciate it. Here's the scoop. If it's TL;DR, just skip to the last paragraph... @_@

First, regarding 'three-tile-wide' networks, I apologize-- I had been looking at a RHM highway, not a NWM "three-tile avenue", and got the two mods mixed together when I was trying to remember the problem. However I am glad to hear the mod is still evolving, and glad to see your continued dedication. That's really impressive for a game as old as Sim City 4... I expected the mod community to be dead when I installed it again, but here I sit, proven completely wrong! Amazing.

I did, as you said, and demolished the RHW intersection there, along with the rest of the RHM bordering the city as illustrated in the picture. Its placement was an experiment to see how a RHW would work at that location, but apartments and commercial buildings along it were being abandoned due to 'long commute' (right down the road), so I've deleted the whole thing in favor of a working NWM network, if I can get it to go right. I think I remember reading somewhere that how SC4 handles highways is that if you're on it, it's a long commute, and if you transfer cities, even if its right near the border, it's a long commute.

About other/previous versions of traffic simulators... I am using all current versions of your mods, and have never previously installed them on this machine. I also apologize for the incorrect statement regarding flow-through traffic as I mistakenly misread a comment you made a few years ago (sounds ridiculous now that I think about it, I mean, it's been years lol) about TLA-5's throughput capacity. Clearly my mistake. I am also not using any other traffic modifier mods as I purposely wanted to avoid any conflicts whatsoever. I did install the Traffic Simulator that came in the install package but after running it once, I was confused as to its usage due to my inexperience with NWM and decided to exit without saving anything until a later time.

Regarding 'three-tile-wide' networks, I was wrong again-- I had been looking at a RHM highway, not a NWM "three-tile avenue", and got the two mods mixed together when I was trying to remember the problem.

And finally, as I forgot to ask this... does placing the neighbor connector on top of the neighbor transitions in place, where both arrows are pointing out, cause traffic to flow in normally regardless of how it looks like it will not? I am having trouble getting these transitions down..

Edit: I really apologize for asking so many questions you've probably heard a hundred times. I mean no offense and I regret asking things I'm sure you've heard a hundred times before. I actually went back and experimented with the single-tile TLA-3 and after some inital difficulties with placement, I learned to drag only from one side, then make blocks by treating it like the game 'Snake'. Most of my traffic problems vanished in my smaller towns, and I managed to get the TLA-5 road from Ripon to connect with neighbor Mountain View, though on both sides, it seems traffic only travels one way... still working on that, but after an initial learning curve, I'm getting ahold of it, and I want to thank you for having weathered my questions. Now I'll just have to overcome the massive RHM learning curve, but it's worth it!

[j-dub]

Please note that you'll need to demolish that RHW-2 intersection. There is no way to have an intersection and a Neighbor Connector Puzzle Piece on the same tile, and there are no plans to make any pieces of that nature. 

Interim:
I hope you have not done anything major yet, as in kill that RHW before the TLA, and do massive rerouting, but from my past experience, it has not been impossible for me to leave such an intersection there, and have the neighbor connection work, the catch is, it just is more advanced, or more complicated.

This is how the game's behavior should of went with that intersection:


Because of this, I don't know if you are up for a challenge, very useful, but still challenging work around. It involves tricking the game to think there is still an avenue there, destroing the avenue, but keeping the arrows so the game recognizes the TLA-5 as an avenue going in and out, while it actually is not. It has been a while since I have done anything like that, but with my previous luck of getting the RHW to connect without the pieces, and even place overpasses at the edge, and still manage everything to work, I do not see why the TLA-5/games behavior can not be tricked to allow an RHW-2 by TLA-5 crossing. Its just I am going to have to get some proof up, if your actually still interested.

I am pending a video to show just the intersection of RHW and TLA-5 you displayed, but it will have to wait cuz of real life

[GDO29Anagram]

It involves tricking the game to think there is still an avenue there, destroing the avenue, but keeping the arrows so the game recognizes the TLA-5 as an avenue going in and out, while it actually is not.

I remember that method, and I know you made a video of it for RHW-4 NCs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2g_mcR_iUU 

@interim: To achieve what J-dub did, follow the instructions in the video, but substitute the Rail over RHW pieces with Rail over Road pieces. Then drag Road AWAY FROM the arrows into the corresponding starter piece.

@j-dub: Your old video should be enough to explain the tactic...

[interim]

Thanks, both of you. What I've done for now is bulldozed the RHW-2 leading up to the TLA-5 for one city block on either side. There is actually an RHW-2 neighbor connection just south of the TLA-5 that gets such massive influxes of traffic from Ripon's neighbor Mountain View (5800 car, 1600 pedestrian) that this new setup is not really viable. I am not certain how to fix the problem without rezoning the nearby commercial area and replacing it with middle-density residential. C$$$ demand is extremely low in Ripon despite R$$$ being 20% of the population, so I think maybe Mountain View is making up too much of the workforce. Also, that TLA-5 leads up to an avenue intersection that is just barely visible at the far left of my image, which heads north to the town of Redding. Mountain View citizens inexplicably travel on foot from Ripon, down the TLA-5, walk eight blocks north to the Redding border, then walk up a stretch of avenue that is completely empty for 20+ tiles to work in the industrial district. I mean, I understand they want work, but walking fifteen miles on foot to work in a factory? That's some desperation, yo.

Basically, having that intersection work properly would relieve a lot of foot traffic at that intersection. For some reason, my sims hate the subway, unless I place it on the shortest route... in which case they bring it to 400% capacity. Heck yeah! Lol. Once I get these intersections down, I'll be off and running on trying to make RHW interchanges... my mind, it reels! And forget the light rails! Maybe I'm getting carried away trying to make that bay in Timbuktu look like one big major city...



Look at all those abandoned buildings! The horror... I guess SC4 isn't like riding a bike at all!

[j-dub]

All man, and I worked so hard making this,
http://www.youtube.com/v/DSaR1HpPRic
stayed up really late, and took a lot time putting all of this together!

Oh well, no good deed goes unpunished. BTW though, anyone else notice how long the yellow light is here, or is that just a conflicting one-time fluke? I actually think having the light last that long is more realistic.

[interim]

No worries j-dub, I REALLY appreciate your effort and this looks like it'll actually be a really good resource for me in the future. Your effort wasn't in vain!

[Opkl]

j dubs, where did you get those railroad gates in your video?

[regoarrarr]

Hi - can TLA-5 or other double tile NWM pieces go diagonal or angle / curve at all?  I see the curve pieces for the single tile networks but didn't see any for the larger pieces.

If not, any ideas for how to do anything similar?

[Nego]

Hi - can TLA-5 or other double tile NWM pieces go diagonal or angle / curve at all?  I see the curve pieces for the single tile networks but didn't see any for the larger pieces.

If not, any ideas for how to do anything similar?

I'm sorry, regoarrarr, but at this time, there is no way to make diagonals or curves at all with these networks. There will be in the future, but at this point in time, there is no curves or diagonals for the OWR-4, OWR-5, TLA-5, MAVE-4, or MAVE-6. You can try transitioning to regular AVE or OWR-3 or OWR-2 right before the curve/diagonal stretch of road, but other than that, I don't know what to tell you. Sorry. It is something to look forward to in the future, though.

[Haljackey]

Geesh j-dub. That's a really interesting find. Although it requires an awful lot of work.

Wouldn't it be easier just to convert the TLA-5 to an avenue for the neighbour connection and convert it back to a TLA-5 on the adjacent tile? Is there a lot lost by doing this connection (such as capacity)?

[j-dub]

Of course it's easier, I don't even usually build so close to the edge, because of the land the next tile over, I don't want to see buildings or networks compromise edge reconcile, its just the whole point of the video was to make:

into a working solution. (again the above picture will not allow travel folks)

Opkl, in the past I believe that rail road crossing mod was on the STEX, but I am no so sure anymore. It may have even been off a third party, unrelated to SC4 site, but I can't remember where, and have my doubts, I want to say avenue rail road crossing mod, but IDK. Thats what time does, alter the availability of finding things, so best of luck finding.

[interim]

At first your method was pretty confusing (as I've never used these kinds of workarounds before), and while I was doing it, I noticed that no type of road was allowing a real connection to Mountain View, even Maxis avenues. So I bulldozed all the buildings near that area on both sides, saved both areas, reloaded them just to make sure everything was good and then connected Ripon and Mountain View via a Maxis avenue. The connection appeared successful on Ripon's side but as far as Mountain View was concerned, there was no avenue... Well, no worries. I already knew where both roads were supposed to meet, so I matched both TLA-5's while ignoring the RHW-2 segment for now. Traffic going both ways is successful on both sides now it seems, though the number of vehicles is small (only a few hundred).

Either way, any morning commute from Mountain View proves it's a successful connection. Thanks a lot, j-dub.