NWM (Network Widening Mod) - Development and Support

[Tarkus]

In the new NWM will there be intersections for diagonals?

There's been some work on it for the single-tile networks. There have been some pathing issues to sort out, however.  There will eventually be diagonal intersections for dual and triple-tile networks as well, but there's a massive amount of work involved in doing those, so we may stop and make a release before we get to that point.

-Alex

[Jack_wilds]

There's been some work on it for the single-tile networks. There have been some pathing issues to sort out, however.  There will eventually be diagonal intersections for dual and triple-tile networks as well, but there's a massive amount of work involved in doing those, so we may stop and make a release before we get to that point.

-Alex

Hello Alex...

First wish to extend a hearty Thank-you, for what you and the whole NAM-Team does in providing means for an exciting sim city experience... 

I'd say that the NWM is my favorite nam add-on, although the RHW gets the more attention... and yes I do hope for good
NWM vr2 before it gets so involved that it will seem like a forever release... so whatever you guys do in game planning releases, I hope that vr2 will be packed, expanding on whats all ready in vr1... before moving on to the more in depth stuff...

I also extend a 'heres hoping' that the pathing chore won't take as long or be troublesome in the making so its eventual release will be as hassle free as possible...

Again Thank-you and the NAM Team for all labor of luv for Sims everywhere

Jack

[Opkl]

There's been some work on it for the single-tile networks. There have been some pathing issues to sort out, however.  There will eventually be diagonal intersections for dual and triple-tile networks as well, but there's a massive amount of work involved in doing those, so we may stop and make a release before we get to that point.
-Alex

Please don't stop.

[deanva]

How do you cross a river with the MAVE6 or others I keep getting the dreaded red line unsuitable message. I have tried various ways and no success.

[GDO29Anagram]

@deanva: You can't. You'll have to convert it to Avenue in order to cross.

[j-dub]

Maybe that picture sometime back with the MAVE6 crossing the Maxis water with no bridge model, gave the wrong impression. Initially RHW had no bridge models too. So, while its not yet ready for MAVE6 at this moment Deanva, you know it will at least be possible in the future.

[ivo_su]

I've always wondered why the new AVE - 6 AVE - 8 will be used the road as base network and not as standard AVE - 4.
Also I was interested in as the next variant of the NWM will AVE - 8, why not and MAVE-8. Otherwise, what bridge I'm sure that will happen but will have some time. However, sad as it is for me still NWM is not as popular as RHW unfortunately. Deeply hope that the future will be.
Greetings to all NAM team.

- Ivaylo (Ivo)

[Tarkus]

I've always wondered why the new AVE - 6 AVE - 8 will be used the road as base network and not as standard AVE - 4.

AVE-6 and AVE-8 are triple-tile networks.  Default AVE-4 is a dual-tile network.  There are no working natively dual-tile override networks in place (only experimental prototypes), and it would require taking two AVE-4s and cutting one in half to get a triple-tile width, which is more trouble than it's worth.  Diagonals would become a different can of worms entirely because of the shared-tile vs. split-tile issue.

Road was really the only viable option and gives a lot more flexibility.  We considered OWRs for part of the override as well, but the whole stop point thing was problematic.  I have considered switching the outer tiles of AVE-8 and TLA-9 over to OWR anyway, as that would get them a higher capacity and make them actually be useful for something more than mere eyecandy.

Also I was interested in as the next variant of the NWM will AVE - 8, why not and MAVE-8.

Actually, AVE-8 won't be in Version 2.0.  Just AVE-6 and TLA-7.  There's been some preliminary discussion of triple-tile MAVEs, but nothing serious on that front, and I'm not sure how many RL examples there are out there or how useful it'd actually be.  If someone can find some RL examples for me, I'd be more inclined to consider it for a future addition in Version 3.0.

-Alex

[ivo_su]

Alex I know that AVE-8 will appear in version 3.0. But trust me, pretty tight operation and development of NWM. Just my English is terrible and I hardly say what I want correctly. As examples of MAVE-8 am absolutely sure that they exist in Moscow. The bad thing  is that I do not know how to copy a picture from Google Earth to show you visually.

- Ivo

[Tarkus]

As examples of MAVE-8 am absolutely sure that they exist in Moscow. The bad thing  is that I do not know how to copy a picture from Google Earth to show you visually.

That wound up being enough information I was able to find one: the Tverskaya ulitsa in Moscow. 

Edit: Looks like there's an OWR-8 just down the road, too.   Looks like I may have some new networks to consider after exploring Moscow.

-Alex

[ivo_su]

I'm glad if I had something useful. I'll try to look MAVE - 8 because I'm sure I've seen similar in Moscow. You may be surprised but I also have and MAVE - 10. Overall, Russians are pretty crazy and impractical but what the hell.

Ivo

[GDO29Anagram]

@ivo_su: Don't worry; I'm try to look for some. (Off to Russia!!!) I'll also try to find some MAVE8's that are a little closer to home. (Wow Alex you're fast... Too bad Google Maps is failing on me... Oh well; Google Earth...)

(MAVE8 sounds suicidal in my opinion; There's no way in a million years that two lines of yellow paint would be enough to safely isolate the two directions of traffic... But if they exist, might as well consider it then.

@Alex: AVE8-TLA9 with OWR-based outer parts? Interesting prospect... But an OWR-8?!! Russia has some insane road networks...

Let me take a whack at it... We got a record-breaker: The MAVE-18. From first looks, Moscow doesn't have a well-extensive system of controlled-access roads, so to make up for that, the make their surface streets as big as highways.

[Kitsune]

@ivo_su: Don't worry; I'm try to look for some. (Off to Russia!!!) I'll also try to find some MAVE8's that are a little closer to home. (Wow Alex you're fast... Too bad Google Maps is failing on me... Oh well; Google Earth...)

(MAVE8 sounds suicidal in my opinion; There's no way in a million years that two lines of yellow paint would be enough to safely isolate the two directions of traffic... But if they exist, might as well consider it then.

@Alex: AVE8-TLA9 with OWR-based outer parts? Interesting prospect... But an OWR-8?!! Russia has some insane road networks...

Let me take a whack at it... We got a record-breaker: The MAVE-18. From first looks, Moscow doesn't have a well-extensive system of controlled-access roads, so to make up for that, the make their surface streets as big as highways.

OWR-8 ... and people doing dangerous lane cuts (crossing all lanes curb to curb at once) on a OWR-4 is bad enough... but someone doing that on a OWR-8??   

[jdenm8]

From first looks, Moscow doesn't have a well-extensive system of controlled-access roads, so to make up for that, the make their surface streets as big as highways.

Yeah, I definitely think we're looking at outliers here.

[ivo_su]

Yeah
really there are so extensive networks and interesting about them is that ogranitsenieto speed is 80-90 km / h and then in the city center. Can you imagine what if must be crossed by pedestrians. The problem is that everywhere there are subways and pedestrian paths are long at 40-50 m. Especially here in Sofia there are 10-15 boulevard where the limit is 80 km / h, imagine what is in Moscow.

P.S.
Please look at the Bull. "Sadovoye Kol'tso"  because  to me  very similar  to MAVE - 14. It really surprises me, even me. I knew for large networks in Moscow, but it made me crazy.

http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=55.772044,37.639112&spn=0.001476,0.006866&t=h&z=18&lci=com.panoramio.all

Ivo

[GDO29Anagram]

I've done more research: The capitol of Argentina sports a 14-lane road: The AVE-14. And that one is punctuated by so many intersections, it's like waiting at a red light, only to find that the next light that's 300 feet from you just turned red. Cars appear to get trapped there.

Moscow, Russia isn't the only place that has MAVE8's; Manila, Philippines has a MAVE8 near the shipping docks (Half of its lanes are used as parking lots, and it also performs a 90-deg curve, not two 45's). There's also an AVE-12 and, of all things, an 8-lane roundabout. Plus, its AVE8's make half-intersections with MAVE4's.

OWR-8 ... and people doing dangerous lane cuts (crossing all lanes curb to curb at once) on a OWR-4 is bad enough... but someone doing that on a OWR-8??

I guess you'll understand what I mean when I say that these roads are suicidally wide.

Where's the dividing line between in-game realism and real-life impracticality?

@Ivo: That's the road that contains the MAVE-18 segment. It's one of Moscow's ring roads.

[ivo_su]

As far as I am aware in SimSity the biggest city on the map size is 4x4 km. I think it renders the networks with more than 5 lanes in one direction because it must still remain and some space for buildings and other spaces. Perhaps if the map scale permits more than 4x4 km would make sense to think and so wide networks. But let us not forget that in RL there are towns with more than 30 million in a difficult SimSity reached 10 million
At least my record is 4.5 million, and loading for road network should not be so large and require such mega networks.

Ivo

[jdenm8]

In SC4 it is possible to hit 30,000,000 sims, but you've gotta play that city as multiple tiles in a Region (ala municipal councils and counties).

I don't know of any city on earth that has the highest population density I've reached (1,500,000 in 4km²) in SimCity 4.

[GDO29Anagram]

As far as I am aware in SimSity the biggest city on the map size is 4x4 km. I think it renders the networks with more than 5 lanes in one direction because it must still remain and some space for buildings and other spaces. Perhaps if the map scale permits more than 4x4 km would make sense to think and so wide networks.

Actually, network widening isn't limited to rendering; It's only limited to practicality¹ and realism². Besides, MAVE6 is 6 lanes; Is it all in one direction? This also brings up how an OWR6 can be "theoretically" possible: Same size as a MAVE6, but all the lanes are in one direction. Same can be said for an RHW12S, though with the 12S, you can fit that many lanes into the same space as an RHW8S or RHW10S. At the very least, these networks can have more than five lanes, in ANY size of city tile.

1 - This includes in-game limitations, such as capacity and how big of a footprint such a network would need. Example: The RHW8C was once considered impossible because overhang technology wasn't developed then (Neither were the V5 lane size specifications), and it would've taken up FIVE tiles. Another example: Limitations with the RULs, making the NWM, at the time, incompatible with the RTL.
2 - This reflects on how real-life road systems are used as a benchmark and how close the NAM team can get to that. Example: The reason why the cutoff for OWR is five lanes is because that appears to be the average maximum size for a one-way road (At least in the US). Though there are some cases (Even in the US) where there are six-lane OWRs.

[strucka]

Another thing considered, should be NWM roundabouts. No need to exagerate, but lets say an 8x8 or 10x10 4 laner would be awesome to have.