NWM (Network Widening Mod) - Development and Support

[metarvo]

I've tried not to get too impatient or anxious about this release, because I know that it requires a lot of work to produce superior content such as the NAM and NWM.  Feel free to take as much time as you need, Alex and the rest of the NAM team.  I'm aware that time taken has a direct relationship with quality, as well as quantity.  Of course, I will appreciate the smaller releases when they come. 

[ivo_su]

The problem with 'smaller releases' is that with this, we're trying to implement something that sounds small (Diagonal Intersections, three new networks) but just isn't. There's a lot of man hours involved in this in probably the most difficult RULs (TMK only Tarkus and BlueLightning can edit it confidently, poor commenting doesn't exactly help).

I am sure that the Shadow Assassin  Maarten  and are also able to edit RUL2 when talking about  small  releases  did not mean  whole  network  though  diagonal  because it  is not so  small  amount of work.  Misamta  I focused more on puzzle pieces, which are inherent in  TuLEP's  and RHW than of NWM. I think very well may be offered by any other splitter or intersection of consumers each month as a supplement instead of waiting a whole year for the design of a large package of innovations.
Yes I know I have not yet passed the 12 months of release polsednoto but let's not kid ourselves. We all know that before the middle of August is unlikely to be prepared all drafts of NAM.

- Ivo

[noahclem]

I can certainly understand the logic and attractiveness of more frequent, smaller releases. However, I suspect that smaller releases would still require a lot of time and testing after development and before distribution  to iron out bugs and create a polished finished product (avoiding a plethora of user complaints very possibly from some of the people rushing release), while larger releases allow a greater percentage of time to be spent on creativity and development as opposed to "polishing". In a way it's a blessing. Many people hoped release wouldn't take this long but I don't think anybody suspected that the release would include this much new content.

[ivo_su]

I can certainly understand the logic and attractiveness of more frequent, smaller releases. However, I suspect that smaller releases would still require a lot of time and testing after development ....

Many would easily attract a large  team of  users  willing  to test  and report  errors. However, there is hardly a  normal person who  refuses  to work for the NAM  as it is to refuse to work at NASA in real life.  Helping the  NAM is a privilege  and pride  not just  duty.

- Ivo

[j-dub]

Hey Ivo, you got  time for a short story? It involves only an idea of the NWM getting released an earlier date, but a lot smaller. There was almost a time that the first NWM could of came out sooner, but without the TLA-5. Now, because this was the first NWM, I was not too big of a fan of that idea, I felt that would of caused some   Luckily for everyone else, it later premiered with that, and the other double tile networks. Because of this, I am positive you would not want to see the next NWM without certain known stuff you were waiting for.

Its not like people refuse to work for NAM, but there are people I am positive you have not met from the NAM inner workings previously that got stuck dealing with real life and real time. Not to get off topic, but because you mentioned NASA, well I hate to tell you America's funding kind of has been toned down on NASA's space research and development work.

[Tarkus]

Personally, a large part of me would like to go to a smaller release paradigm as it would mean less of these long-term, high-pressure release cycles.  However, the way our development processes usually go and the way controller files work, it can be rather chaotic even with a drawn out cycle.  We've had the option of doing asynchronous updates of NAM plugins without updating the NAM Core for awhile now, with the NAM Essentials package.  But we've never really taken advantage of it, in large part because our development processes have often involved simultaneous changes to the NAM Core, and the logistical difficulties of doing it otherwise.  NAM release engineering procedures have also been glacial to change, though there have been many efforts over the years.

We have no shortage of folks wanting to play around with pre-release stuff.  That's why we have a rather selective (and secretive ) process of picking NAM Associates, with no public trace of our recruitment process whatsoever.  It's worked pretty well for us, and I think we've got a really solid group right now.  But having adequate testers isn't really the issue--it's having enough developmental types with enough time and skill to fix the issues the testers report, while also pushing further developmentally.  We could probably stand to have a RUL-literate "release engineer" who does controller compilation and nothing else.

(TMK only Tarkus and BlueLightning can edit it confidently, poor commenting doesn't exactly help).

I am sure that the Shadow Assassin  Maarten  and are also able to edit RUL2 when talking about  small  releases  did not mean  whole  network  though  diagonal  because it  is not so  small  amount of work. 

Of the current NAM Team developers, Blue Lightning and I are definitely the most comfortable with it.  The other Maarten (mtg) has some proficiency with it, as do jondor and SA.  There are a few others who have played around with it, but not with any regularity, and many of them are more comfortable doing puzzle pieces, and focus their attention there.  mrtnrln is one of our most prolific puzzle piece makers and does a fair bit with T21s, but doesn't really work with RUL2.  Back in the day, jplumbley, memo and Jonathan were absolute geniuses with RUL2, but none of them are really actively modding right now (albeit memo did briefly return to activity, and something new from him will be out this release cycle).

Personally, I actually enjoy RUL2 stuff a lot, more than making puzzle pieces these days, and it's not uncommon for me to crank out a thousand lines of code in a night.  That's the one thing I like about working on the NWM--on the implementation side, it's heavily RUL2-based (and will be increasingly headed that way, as you'll soon see).  But that's been only part of what I've needed to do on the project.

-Alex

[Ramona Brie]

What does RUL2 entail BTW? What types of transit functionality does it enable?

[ivo_su]

Thank j-dub and Tarkus for detailed information with which they flooded me. I am really happy when I understand more about how things in the kitchen of the NAM.
Unfortunately I'm relatively new to this forum and I have the honor to know the older members of the NAM but the absence of Jonathan is a huge loss for us all. I always thought it was just impossible for man to do all the work on the NWM. Because I think that this project is quite large in size and potential for future development. I dare say even that is much more complex and larger than RHW. While RHW participate in almost all of  NAM they both project  to the  NWM in the vast majority of the work rests on the shoulders of Alex. In this line of thought,  I really am sorry that Alex so much work  about  the making of codes  RUL2 is left only to you. I know that the NAM team is one of the largest  members  count  and pray in the  future there will be more capable to handle not only RUL2 but also be actively involved in the development of NWM.
  Clock to NASA's budget - I gave it only as an example to demonstrate how  it is  prestigious  to work  for the  NAM. I hope that soon the U.S. government  will direct  more funds  in this direction but do not forget that the world lives in times of severe global financial  crisis.

Best,
- Ivo

-

[jondor]

What does RUL2 entail BTW? What types of transit functionality does it enable?

RUL2 deals with overrides of dragged network tiles (X next to Y becomes X next to Z, etc)  Each draggable override network requires thousands of lines of override code in order to function properly.  There is an excellent tutorial which also explains the concept here.

Thank j-dub and Tarkus for detailed information with which they flooded me. I am really happy when I understand more about how things in the kitchen of the NAM.
Unfortunately I'm relatively new to this forum and I have the honor to know the older members of the NAM but the absence of Jonathan is a huge loss for us all. I always thought it was just impossible for man to do all the work on the NWM. Because I think that this project is quite large in size and potential for future development. I dare say even that is much more complex and larger than RHW. While RHW participate in almost all of  NAM they both project  to the  NWM in the vast majority of the work rests on the shoulders of Alex. In this line of thought,  I really am sorry that Alex so much work  about  the making of codes  RUL2 is left only to you. I know that the NAM team is one of the largest  members  count  and pray in the  future there will be more capable to handle not only RUL2 but also be actively involved in the development of NWM.
  Clock to NASA's budget - I gave it only as an example to demonstrate how  it is  prestigious  to work  for the  NAM. I hope that soon the U.S. government  will direct  more funds  in this direction but do not forget that the world lives in times of severe global financial  crisis.

Best,
- Ivo

-

I'm certainly not as adept at it as Alex is, but now that I have the flips and rotations figured out, I'm getting a lot better at it.  In fact, to help support my railroad crossing props project, I added some stability code to the existing SAMxSTR intersections, so they will at least function in most basic circumstances, they don't have a lot of the more complex code yet that lets them work in every conceivable situation, but they will at least work on straight stretches of street and next to streetxstreet intersections and rail curves.

[Tarkus]

I should add, the version of RUL2 in the current developmental NAM Controller build (r111) contains a little over 200,000 lines of code (including comments).  Exported as a .txt file, it weighs in over 10MB.

Generally, each "override network" involves at least 2000 lines of RUL2 code.  With a fully fleshed-out feature list and proper stability, it would be conceivable that they could run in the range of 10000-20000 lines of code per network.  FLEXFly runs about 9000 right now.

-Alex

[ivo_su]

Hey jondor I noticed long ago that you do a railroad crossing props project and I am very pleased with your work at the moment. Hopefully there are plenty of active members  to engage with the support of NWM  because there is much to be desired field. I am sure that it is particularly difficult  to make several puzzle pieces that are included from overpasses Avenue, road and OWR and why not for railroad. However RHW has such support  while  NWM serious difficulties when it comes to cross from any other network. Please be a little more as you begin to deal with such things  because if you leave  it only Alex will take decades to deal with everything.

- Ivo

[freshballin365]

I think it's important to thank each and every single member of the NAM Team for his/her hard work, dedication, and commitment in revolutionizing Sim City 4, whether they are still on board or MIA. I truly commend the patience and attentiveness you all have shown us (users of the NAM, RHW, NWM, SAM) in listening to our requests, questions, thoughts, etc. It's truly amazing that there is team of individuals who are so purposeful and engaged into successfully transforming and supplementing the once bland, abject transportation network of the stock Sim City 4. I have wanted to contribute to these large scale projects but I, unfortunately, do not have time to do so and I lack the persistence NAM Team member have  . Anyways, back to point: RULing & Puzzle Pieces seem hard, and I don't blame anyone if they only have a facility with one of those items. NAM Team people are as human as we are so we must remember that they are only trying unto the best of their abilities(I might question their humanity with all the meticulous work they do ). But above all, they experience real time and real life as we NAM, RHW, NWM, etc. users do. It would be hard for me to imagine Tarkus (Alex) being the sole contributor on the RUL front. Wouldn't one go insane if all that rested upon himself? I feel that  it's a cohesive effort between all the NAMites (Did I use that right )  to make everything happen on all fronts. So, again a lot of thanks and gratitude to everyone on the NAM Team . And yes, I am anxious to get my hands on NWM & RHW, but completeness of a project is worthwhile as well. It should be up to the NAMites to decide! Good Luck & All the Best to the NAM Team.

- Chris

[Blue Lightning]

I should add, the version of RUL2 in the current developmental NAM Controller build (r111) contains a little over 200,000 lines of code (including comments). 
[snip]
FLEXFly runs about 9000 right now.

-Alex

I'd like to update that, as of right now RUL2 is 201,367 lines long and FLEXFly is 10,856.
(Although, it doesn't help that for some FLEXFly pieces, there are 4 lines of main code + 136 lines of stability code + comments. Per position/per network + mirrored pieces. I'm not saying what piece this is, though )

[ivo_su]

Good grief, the Lord is really huge in size and volume information. I deeply regret that all this falls to only 2 people and is now beginning to understand why the process takes so long to develop. I pray all the gods of the NAM more people to learn to handle RUL2 to be able to relax a little or legends like Jonathan and Memo to return.

- Ivo

[Tarkus]

Mine's at 202,700 right now--I've got some stuff in mine that Vince doesn't, and he has some stuff I don't.  I'd predict by this time next year, we'll be around 250,000-300,000. 

In terms of comparing the RHW and NWM in terms of difficulty adding to them, the RHW requires not only a lot of RUL2, but a lot of RUL0 stuff.  The reason we have the RHW staffed as well as we do is because we have more folks with the abilities to be productive over there.  The NWM's a lot lighter on the need for puzzle pieces.  The pathing involved is also a fair bit more complex.  RHW paths on some of the wider networks have a lot fewer stanzas than NWM paths.

-Alex

[Ramona Brie]

*sniff sniff* Do I smell the NWM2 Secret Weapon being a WAVERide piece?

[Tarkus]

Actually, it probably would not fall into the WAVERide category.

-Alex

[Wiimeiser]

I'm guessing it's a NAVE-4?

[Tarkus]

I'm guessing it's a NAVE-4?

Nope.  It's not a new network.

-Alex

[Ramona Brie]

What Tarkus DID say it was was a facility to make constructing NWM networks easier. I thought it already WAS easy...