NWM (Network Widening Mod) - Development and Support

[noahclem]

Will someone explain what Rabet's are?

[mike3775]

Thanks.  Way to many acronyms these days  lol

I'm still trying to get the different NWM acronyms down

[Shadow Assassin]

I allowed myself to run a referendum in leading a project RABETs by Alex (Tarkus) who wishes to vote and let the number of points their vote with the aim to collect 100 votes for the referendum to be valid.

Quite simply, between that, and the fact that I'm already more than occupied with projects that hold my interest more, I wouldn't be able to do RABETs justice.  If someone else on the NAM Team wants to take it up, I'm happy to provide feedback on implementation and the technical modding aspects, but I'm not going to spearhead the project.

Ivo, Alex doesn't want to do roundabouts at this point. As he said, he is not particularly familiar with them (they only really became common in the last 5-10 years in the US) and therefore wouldn't be able to do them justice. I've done some work on RaBETs but I've been too busy with other projects (both SC4 and RL) to pay much attention to them. A few other NAM users (such as jdenm8) have done some work on roundabouts but they've been busy with other projects as well.

Remember, we're not being paid to do this. We're doing the NAM in our (limited) spare time, and it's going to be that way for the forseeable future. It'd be great if we had this as a job, but we can't be paid for our work. It's really that simple.

And there's also the fact that we haven't yet decided on how to implement them. When we do finally decide, it'll be most likely when Project 0E is completed and the next lot of TuLEPs are done.

[ivo_su]

Yes, you are right Shadow Assassin and I apologize for my enthusiastic that I really too far. I pray that  Alex should not be angry with me, but did so because they respect him immensely, and I admire his ability. Certainly, the project RABETs is very important and necessary  but not so much as to achieve ultra stability through 0E. Yes  I agree also that for TuLEPs must make many  pieces.
I hate that you guys do this for free. Maybe if I'd pay you a millionaire and I organized a sort of conference or workshop in a country in a hotel as you bear the costs. So things could become quite quickly. Can you imagine if you get with engineers from EA what could be obtained:
- Major cities biger of 4x4 km (perhaps as the whole map)
- Multiple cameras for different views
- Introduction of super HD textures (512 pixels)
But I think I started to dream too much about things that you can not accomplish, unfortunately. otherwise  cross your fingers - I became a  millionaire, I promise to conduct such workshops.

Good luck with your project 0E and may be completed with the desired results and to establish stability in NWM and not only on RHW.

[jdenm8]

4x4km cities are already available, they're the largest the game has.
There are multiple cameras already.
512x512 textures are perfectly possible and have been implemented in-game. The issue is the nine year old engine struggles and messes up the dithering, introducing noise, with little quality improvement over 256x256.

[Tarkus]

512x512 textures are perfectly possible and have been implemented in-game. The issue is the nine year old engine struggles and messes up the dithering, introducing noise, with little quality improvement over 256x256.

Not to mention that 512x512 will cause the game to crash in Software Rending.  256x256 also causes distortions in Zoom 5.  I believe it was either cogeo or SimFox who figured out that the game's optimal setting for Zoom 5/6 compromise was actually somewhere thereabouts of 191x191 due to the way the game's cameras were oriented.

-Alex

[ivo_su]

Wow  hey guys slower these are just dreams that I thought at night before going to sleep. Can hardly become a reality without a comprehensive reform  exe. files  without using the EA team.  Also to answer jdenm8 I had to many cities  larger than 4x4 km. Such as  to have the whole map for example 10x10 or why not 20x20 km. But  I do not know if this hardware is able to deliver the desired parameters. There are so many things that I  thought that probably would take me for hours to tell you them, but I am afraid that this topic is not the place (and now  I have a lot of blunders that are ashamed)
Glad  you still stole the attention written by me and you comment on my dreams. It's nice that  sometimes serious about  words written by me.

[jdenm8]

Not to mention that 512x512 will cause the game to crash in Software Rending.

Forgot about that one. 

[michi_cc]

I was in need for a slip lane for my AVE-6 intersection, so tried to I whip something up with the help of the Puzzle Piece tutorial.



No idea how broken that stuff is from the technical side (e.g. my chosen IIDs are totally stupid I guess), but it does seem to work

A .DAT with all stuff except the RUL code is at http://www.filedropper.com/zave-6sliplane_1 (PNG texture).

RUL code needed:

Code Select Expand

AddTypes     = 0998, 10998, 20998, 30998, 40998, 50998, 60998, 70998 ;AVE-6 Slip Lane

[HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00000998]
;AVE-6 TuLEP Slip Lane
Piece = 0.0, 0.0, 0, 0, 0x99FF0005
PreviewEffect = preview_slip_lane_ave6_piece

CellLayout =.....
CellLayout =..a.<
CellLayout =..^..

CheckType = a - road:0x02000200

ConsLayout =.....
ConsLayout =..|.<
ConsLayout =..^..

AutoTileBase= 0x99FF0000
ReplacementIntersection = 0, 0
PlaceQueryID = 0x99FF0000
Costs = 150
[HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00010998]
CopyFrom = 0x0998
Rotate = 1
[HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00020998]
CopyFrom = 0x0998
Rotate = 2
[HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00030998]
CopyFrom = 0x0998
Rotate = 3

[HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00040998]
;AVE-6 TuLEP Slip Lane
Piece = 0.0, 0.0, 0, 0, 0x99FF0015
PreviewEffect = preview_slip_lane_ave6_piece2

CellLayout =.....
CellLayout =..a.<
CellLayout =..^..

CheckType = a - road:0x02000200

ConsLayout =.....
ConsLayout =..|.<
ConsLayout =..^..

AutoTileBase= 0x99FF0010
ReplacementIntersection = 0, 0
PlaceQueryID = 0x99FF0010
Costs = 150
[HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00050998]
CopyFrom = 0x40998
Rotate = 1
[HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00060998]
CopyFrom = 0x40998
Rotate = 2
[HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00070998]
CopyFrom = 0x40998
Rotate = 3

[MandelSoft]

Ooh! That's nice, Michi_cc!

[jdenm8]

Now that's being proactive 

I agree, I don't think the IIDs are in the correct range for TuLEPs. Tarkus would know more and be able to allocate it a final IID.

[michi_cc]

I agree, I don't think the IIDs are in the correct range for TuLEPs.

I know the IIDs aren't in the correct range. I was just too lazy to figure out proper IIDs that don't conflict the moment I update some other mod.

[b22rian]

  Hey Maarten and Alex 

    Please forgive me guys if this question or issue has been posted elsewhere
in this thread.  I had a question about the new MAVE- 6 traffic capacity.
I first asked Z ( Steve ) about this and he suggested I post this here .

I should start off mentioning I use some of my own traffic capacity settings
in Simulator Z . But for road and avenue capacity settings I am currently using
3000 for each of those settings.
Okay so in my city , I had gotten to the point where I had a standard
maxis avenue 4 just starting to show some heavier congestion according to our
congestion view. So i thought this would be a good stretch of avenue to try the
MAVE -6.  I knew I would get a 25 % boost to capacity by doing so. So I decided
to transition most of this stretch of road to the MAVE- 6. However the congestion
view does not really show any changes between standard avenue and MAVE-6.
It should be noted however , that its a short stretch of standard avenue before
it transitions to MAVE-6 as you see in my pic here-



     Traffic is consistent on this avenue stretch. Being about 4800 on  either
side of the avenue depending if it is the morning or evening commutes.
(Disregard the 2 red tiles nearest the intersection as those are caused by
the intersection effect there.)

    I ran 2 other tests using a similar set-up in 2 other cities. Testing in a
consistent congested traffic environment using this same standard ave 4
to MAVE-6 transitions and than checking the congestion views to find no
changes to the color shading.

    Additionally, I didn't feel it was an issue on my end . ( glitches or issues
with my plug in folder, data view files  ect). The reason for this was i have
observed the changes in the congestion view for instance when I use a similar
sort of traffic upgrade from road to the TLA-3.  ( the TLA-3 also makes use of
Alex's intersection and turn effect method to give the TLA-3 a 25 % capacity
increase over road.) So as an example I have a stretch of road that transitions
to the TLA-3 about halfway. You than see the expected drop from red to orange
on the congestion view, clearly showing the 25 % boost in traffic capacity.
Where I have placed the transition from road to TLA-3.

   I have noted the TLA-3 is a 1 -tile wide network, whereas the MAVE-6 is a
2- tile network. I wasn't sure if this was a consideration with Alex's
intersection effect method or not .

  So someone else may want to look into this,

Thanks so much for all the hard work and effort you guys put into this Mod !,

your good friend, Brian

[Tarkus]

Thanks for the report, Brian!  That seems to suggest that the attempts to fix the so-called "Commute Arrow Cascade Effect" that folks were complaining about ended up breaking the Distilled Intersection Path (DIP) effect and lowered the capacity of the network.  The per-tile capacity of the MAVE-6, under your settings, should be 3750 per tile (7500 for the whole network span), which should be enough to have resulted in a color change.  My initial tests with a MAVE-4 and the altered-path MAVE-6 showed a switch from red to yellow, meaning your MAVE-6 should probably be green.  The effect should be identical to transitioning from AVE to TLA-5.

Much later, we discovered that the Commute Arrow Cascade Effect was merely a harmless visual glitch, and not the cause for panic many folks were making it out to be (and it was still occurring to a lesser extent even after the "fix"), so it looks like the path files will need to be reverted to their previous configuration.

-Alex

[a11eria]

hey guys i dont reply on here like i used to in the day on simtropolis.  Anyway i have been working with hsr the last wk or 2.  I have gotten pretty good with on sloping and been doing some terrain work a rounds.  For the most part things have been going great,  I wish it was easier to tunnel with HSR but currently i have a work around.  However i think some skinning work needs to be done with it at intersections in particular the ghsr intersections just simply visually dont work at all.  All HSR reverts to monoroail and T and + intersections you can ignore it or pretend its not there with the hsr however with the ghsr you cant just ignore the monorail at the intersection.   On the other hand y intersections for the most part look pretty good they could use some re-touching up you can see some in the picutres but that doesnt compare to the T and +.   Also even on the flat terrain that im showing here i was  having issues getting a full + setup.  i was not able to get the 2nd half to connect.  I was also curious if elevated HSR could be made.  With the new networks coming out this could be quite useful.  I realize though that this would probably come out after the first release of DD intersections and other stuff projected for this next nam.  BTW guys keep up the great work the nam, rtmt and other mods are what keep me coming back to this game over the years. 

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/221/ghsr4way.jpg/


http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/577/hsr4way.jpg/

[Blue Lightning]

Simply put, Jonathan hadn't done the wye setup yet (not sure if it was planned or not) but I can tell you right now that the crossing isn't - it's not sensible to cross two high speed rail lines at grade (its like having a highway cross another highway at grade). You'll need to grade separate them using GHSR and HSR.

(Psst, this is the NWM thread, not the HSR thread )

[DAB_City]

hey guys i dont reply on here like i used to in the day on simtropolis.  Anyway i have been working with hsr the last wk or 2.  I have gotten pretty good with on sloping and been doing some terrain work a rounds.  For the most part things have been going great,  I wish it was easier to tunnel with HSR but currently i have a work around.  However i think some skinning work needs to be done with it at intersections in particular the ghsr intersections just simply visually dont work at all.  All HSR reverts to monoroail and T and + intersections you can ignore it or pretend its not there with the hsr however with the ghsr you cant just ignore the monorail at the intersection.   On the other hand y intersections for the most part look pretty good they could use some re-touching up you can see some in the picutres but that doesnt compare to the T and +.   Also even on the flat terrain that im showing here i was  having issues getting a full + setup.  i was not able to get the 2nd half to connect.  I was also curious if elevated HSR could be made.  With the new networks coming out this could be quite useful.  I realize though that this would probably come out after the first release of DD intersections and other stuff projected for this next nam.  BTW guys keep up the great work the nam, rtmt and other mods are what keep me coming back to this game over the years. 

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/221/ghsr4way.jpg/


http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/577/hsr4way.jpg/

If you do pop across to the HSR Development thread, you'll find that I have been discussing monorail/high-speed tunnels recently. Have a look, perhaps that would help? See my posts here and there 

[njdevil995]

I don't know if the NWM team noticed this already, but the path for the OWR-3/AVE-6 intersection is missing:

[Tarkus]

Not only have we noticed it, we've fixed it already with the Version 2.0.2 patch.

-Alex

[cmdp123789]

Ok, so I asked this some time ago, but I dont quite get it. I just opened google earth and measured one avenue in NYC. The avenue measured 18 meters width, so I transformed it into miles so I would know how many tiles in simcity should measure. The thing is that one tile in simcity is equal to 16 meters in real life. If basically one tile is 16 meters, then, the lanes should fit those 16 meters. So if an of you guys go measure the 6th Avenue in NYC you'll see that it is 18 meters width, BUT it's divided into 6 lanes. So my question is, how come one tile road in simcity has 2 lanes, when in real life the same tile(16 meters) has 6 lanes. I mean, unless 1 tiles is NOT equal to 16 meters, then it is impossible. Think about, in order to make 2 lanes out of 16 meters then each lanes at least should 5 or 6 meters, which would be also wrong since in average a lane has 2 1/2 meters.