RHW (RealHighway) - Development and Support

[Twyla]

With regards to Maarten's slope complaint:
"- Look at the slopes! They are awfully steep! No car would make that slope (let alone a truck!), or at least not when driving 120 km/h / 75 mph."
Although this may be true, the current RHW-4 to ERHW-4 are about that steep, as well as the NAM elevated ramp pieces. So if you want to complain about slopes, you'll have to complain about all those, too 

I was about to say something quite similar.  The ramps pictured rise 15m over 4 tiles (64m) and are actually both smoother and less steep than the E/RHW-4S (which also rises 15m over 64m) already in the current release.

I don't recall where I heard it, but it seems that the viewing perspective in SC4 tends to squash models - so meaning that their *actual* height is something like 120%-150% of their apparent in-game height.

@Twyla: I took a closer look at that interchange via Google Maps, and it's more of a highway with a frontage road system; A setup like that could be easily achieved using RHW with some One-Way Roads running parallel to the sides, but with the addition of several more FARHW ramps (and a few for the One-Way Roads), and several OWR TuLEPs (Something for the Advanced TuLEPs), all of which are unfortunately unavailable.

One thing that came to mind was the possibility of single-tile 'street' versions of the RHW-4S and RHW-6S - grounded on the outside and permitting RCI access.  Sadly, I don't know enough about the internal workings to know how much work would be involved in such pieces.

As of that isolated "turnaround" lane to go from one frontage to another, Someone drew up textures for an OWR-OWR ramp that would aid in that. (It was buried deep in the NWM Thread; Something along the lines of this OWR5 to OWR4 and perpendicular OWR1)

If the 'street' versions are a reasonable possibility, the TuLEP-style turnaround should be easy enough to tie into existing MIS pieces.

It's still a rather elaborate interchange, though; I would have to agree with Maarten with having to go modular;

Most likely.  Though it offers one potential option regarding ERHW-6C over an avenue; possibly two versions - one which is ONLY the ERHW-6C over Avenue, and a slightly more compact version which includes the E/RHW transitions (and possibly the MIS lanes).

[GDO29Anagram]

I don't recall where I heard it, but it seems that the viewing perspective in SC4 tends to squash models - so meaning that their *actual* height is something like 120%-150% of their apparent in-game height.

Since the game squashes things down, you would have to compensate by making things 30% taller; If you have something that'a 10m tall, it has to be 13m tall to compensate for the height-squashing.

The general advice in the SC4 modeling/BATing community is that things should be upscaled 130% on height, as otherwise, they'll look squashed in game.  5m * 1.3 = 6.5m.  The ERHW and EMIS models have a 1m substructure, so the low point on a 7.5m high model will be 6.5m.  It works out perfectly.  Go any lower than that, and you also risk having taller automata clipping the bottom--I decided to play "ERHW Limbo" back in 2009, and this was the result of an actual 5m ERHW: 

One thing that came to mind was the possibility of single-tile 'street' versions of the RHW-4S and RHW-6S - grounded on the outside and permitting RCI access.  Sadly, I don't know enough about the internal workings to know how much work would be involved in such pieces.

General note: RHW, as with Ground and Elevated Maxis Highways, do not provide any zone access at all.

If the 'street' versions are a reasonable possibility, the TuLEP-style turnaround should be easy enough to tie into existing MIS pieces.

Due to the fact that RHW can't provide RCI access, the best workaround, in my opinion, would be to use One Way Roads. Thanks to the Network Widening Mod, it now comes in five flavours: OWR1, 2 (This is the default), 3, 4, and 5. OWR1 looks like MIS, and OWR5 can be used to make the surface street equivalent to RHW10S, somewhat like a ten-lane equivalent to the default Avenue network.

The only aesthetic downside is that they don't have the yellow lines that RHW networks bear, and it's impossible to add while ensuring their directionality; OWR textures and T21s can't tell what directions they go in; That's why there are OWR crossings with traffic lights in the wrong places. (Other OWR crossings with the NWM, like OWR4 to OWR4, avoided the problem by not having them in the first place.) Plus, they don't really need that yellow line anyway; There would be signs placed periodically on real-life OWRs anyway.

The only functionality downside is that they can't make neighbour connections.

This reminds me of something someone might've requested: OWR1 to MIS and OWR3 to RHW6S transitions.

OWR TuLEPs have yet to be fully developed, but I would imagine an OWR3 TuLEP piece with more or less the same arrows as you showed. Also, that piece from the NWM thread I showed is technically not a TuLEP (though it could be made to function WITH them); It's an "OWR Ramp/Splitter". An OWR3 equivalent of that would go from three lanes to two, and be 1x1, with three OWR stubs sticking out. No MIS needed, but if you were REALLY determined,... (I found a way to remove network stubs off of puzzle pieces without any RUL editing, allowing a MIS starter to be "slammed" in its place...)

[T]he current RHW-4 to ERHW-4 are about that steep, as well as the NAM elevated ramp pieces. So if you want to complain about slopes, you'll have to complain about all those, too 

Not so fast!!! Smoother ramps could at least be considered...

[Twyla]

General note: RHW, as with Ground and Elevated Maxis Highways, do not provide any zone access at all.

True, though I was hoping there was a work-around; such as it 'technically' being an RHW tile, but telling the game that it's a OWR or such - or possibly a custom ORW piece that just *looks* like an RHW tile.

[jdenm8]

True, though I was hoping there was a work-around; such as it 'technically' being an RHW tile, but telling the game that it's a OWR or such - or possibly a custom ORW piece that just *looks* like an RHW tile.

Sounds like a lot of hassle for what is essentially duplicated functionality for a cosmetic purpose, something that we have not done (RHW SAM equivalents for example - no, it's not going to happen).

Any tile that would allow RCI access would not be RHW. It would have RHW in it, but its base network could not be RHW.
RHW-4, 6S, 6C, so on (NOT RHW-2), can actually provide CI access now with a little manipulation, but Residential needs a non-freeway network.


I also agree with mrtnrln, pre-fab interchanges just aren't made for the RHW because it would be:
A. Incredibly inflexible
B. Incredibly time-consuming
C. Just like the Maxis Highway network.

We do have two partially pre-fab intersections, the Single Point Urban Interchange and Diverging Diamond Interchange, but they fall under special circumstances and they aren't completely restrictive and pre-fabricated.

That intersection doesn't actually look like much more than a standard Diamond, except with a few very localised bells and whistles.

As well as all that, that intersection would have Zero LHT compatibility as it's completely modelled with direction-specific features.

[Tarkus]

I do have some interesting ideas for how to implement something like that in a non-prefab way, but I can't really say how . . . yet.  There's some . . . classified technology . . . involved.  At some point in the not-too-distant future, a video showing one deployment of this technology will appear on my YouTube channel.

I think once folks see the full extent of what we're up to and get to play around with the next RHW, more folks will understand and agree with our strongly-held belief in a "no pre-fabs ever" philosophy.

-Alex

[Twyla]

As well as all that, that intersection would have Zero LHT compatibility as it's completely modelled with direction-specific features.

If you're referring to LHD, the only thing to change (apart from the textures, which would be different anyways) would be to flip the central median.  Everything else would be the same LHD or RHD.

Just for the record...

[jdenm8]

. . . classified technology

Ah yes... THAT 

If you're referring to LHD, the only thing to change (apart from the textures, which would be different anyways) would be to flip the central median.  Everything else would be the same LHD or RHD.

Just for the record...

Actually, Paths would need to be converted too. A simple flip-job wouldn't work.

[k808j]

@Tarkus
We  see that you r attempting to use that technology u stole from us 

[Blue Lightning]

Actually, he "stole" it from someone else... a rather prominent figure, actually. I won't tell though cuz it'd be mean of me

[j-dub]

Oh no, if anyone's being mean, its EA who steals credit from us, despite, we the whole modding community do all sorts of work, and does not even individually acknowledge us, as SC4 still gets shipped new to store shelves, where as prominent figure Dwight from the Office actor Raine Wilson contacts and acknowledges my friends in RL for their work on his Soul Pancake website. I could also tell you how I know a lot more famous people, and that I also have friends who acted in the movies Transformers 3, Public Enemies, and other stuff, but we do not want to get that FARR off the course from the highway.

The only functionality downside is that they can't make neighbour connections

While OWR connection has not been perfected, its not like there has been nothing tried with it before. I thought a non NAM dude did just that to OWR with FLUPs, it got to read the city edge connection, only because the piece was two way pathed at the edge, and the underground FLUPs connected the four tile gap between the two OWR's, at the cost the game thought the FLUPs tunnel as a four way junction under the highway.

[Gringamuyloca]

I am trying to place a road over a diagonal RHW-2. (Being that there aren't pieces to go under... yet ) I found the pieces, but the only way I can orient the pieces properly is to remove the stretch of RHW-2... but then there is no way to connect RHW-2, as I keep getting the 'reserved' tile notice when I try to connect.

If I leave the diagonal piece of RHW-2 in place, it does not matter how many times I hit the 'end' key to rotate the pieces, the only way the piece will rotate is if I remove the RHW-2.


Is there a Diagonal RHW-2 filler piece that I have missed somewhere? (I did find one for RHW-4)
... maybe there's a 'trick' I am missing?

Thanks,

[GDO29Anagram]

@Gringamuyloca: Hmm,... That IS quite anomalous... I just tried it for myself. Something must've happened in the RULs, and I don't think it'll be fixed sometime soon. HOWEVER,... I know a workaround, but it requires a video demonstration... I doubt any others (other than Blue Lightning) know this trick that I have...

[Blue Lightning]

I have lots of workarounds for connections of diagonals

But yeah, there is a workaround filler... place two diagonal RHW-4, MIS-1, ERHW-4, or EMIS-1 pieces where the RHW-2 should connect (along the line of course). Demolish the one that isnt connected to the overpass, and viola, diagonal stub!

EDIT: This tutorial of mine shows how to do it in a portion of it. There are even more techniques for space constrained or otherwise awkward situations as well.. you kinda develop these once you understand how SC4 treats things

[Gringamuyloca]

@ Blue Lightning
  Thank you for the tutorial  .... it took some playing 'around', but I got it to work! 

[GDO29Anagram]

<sub>Ehh,... I kinda went ahead and already made a video tutorial already...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IxlA6gLx6k</sub>

Hope you don't mind, Vince...

[Blue Lightning]

Meh, that's perfectly fine, a video tends to explain better anyways

[Gringamuyloca]

@ GDO29Anagram 

Let me say your 'technique' is MUCH...lol... quicker than my muddling!

Thank you so much for taking the time to share this! It is so very appreciated!!! 

Maybe this could be 'stickied' somewhere? (I can't be the only one using RHW-2... am I    )

May your hockey team win... unless they are playing mine...  

[jdenm8]

That just looks like a poorly-rotated Checktype in RUL0...

I'll do some experiments on my end and see what happens with it.

[Nego]

Awesome tutorials, both of you! Though I did spot something interesting in GDO29Anagram's video.

[Exla357]

Nego: Is it the custom Highway menu icon?