Sim City 4 Devotion Forums

SimCity 4 Devotion Custom Content Showcase => Independent Development Projects => Independent BAT (Building Architect Tool) Projects => Topic started by: SimFox on October 04, 2007, 05:44:19 AM

Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: SimFox on October 04, 2007, 05:44:19 AM
Oh, god!! I'm totally confused now! %confuso
First of all... can one rename already existing SC4Model file?? I tryed and it wouldn't show in Plug-in Manager. Am I doing something wrong or is it because it reads not the names but something inside of the files as it seems to me... Even when I remove original file and only have a renamed on in my plug-in Folder PM will still list it under old name.
Second. If renaming is impossible... would it be possible to have different name for SC4Desc file (I mean is is allowed, I know that it is possible in a sense that it works)
Third. Linked to 1 and 2 is it possible to have SC4Modle file with one external name and different internal? Basically most users will only see external as it what will show in Explorer, but those willing to do something with model in PM might get confused when name they expect will not show up in PM...
Four. I do have a red cross in Analyzer/Importer. But I'm puzzled for the reference of it: what is this LTD file?? Particularly cause it list the very same SC4Desc file that IS open and that is listed twice just above it with no red cross in sight!
(http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/4366/46808980jk5.gif)
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: BarbyW on October 04, 2007, 06:08:11 AM
The internal name is held in an XML file in the model file. If you change the external filename without changing the XML file it will show the original name. You can call the desc file any name you like as that is what will be shown in the query. If you look at the picture on the previous page of the lot I made you will see what I named the desc file.
When models are packed using SC4DatPacker the XML files are removed. Although this makes it difficult to reuse in Maxis PIM the X Tool can read the models but without the name, just their reference values. This means that they can be used to make new descs in X Tool but you would need to supply a useable name.
Finally, the LTD file is one generated by LE and holds the references to descs and models used in the original creation of the lot. It often holds "false" dependency information if the lot has been made when too much has been kept in the plugins folder. For example if you look at the discussion about the car clusters in Patfirefighter's thread in the BLaM forum you will see an explanation. Why SC4Tool is reporting it missing from the LTD when it shown as there in the Scan I have no idea but the Scan section is the one that is correct. That is the one used by SC4Tool when making the Readme.
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: SimFox on October 04, 2007, 10:34:51 AM
Ok, Barby, the SET of files is in the mail.
I've made it to fit CAM according to the data RippleJet had given me. Not sure if that is enough but all the Desc and info in Readme mentions that.

I've added two LOTs I've made in first place with little change to straight road piece - replaced Flora trees with Same type of Prop ones. Corner lot still have Flora though.

My idea is for this set to be  part of CAM. Tell me if I've missed something.

(http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/4268/eastisredvh6.jpg)
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: SimFox on November 04, 2007, 03:46:32 PM
Ok P44T Mid-rise corner is basically ready It was delayed somewhat cause I have been working on new Rig and export procedure to simplify truNite export without actually writing new script. So now it is has been simplifying significantly enough to be practical even for large buildings and for most of people.
So without further ado here is LOTed version for you consideration and critique.
(http://img466.imageshack.us/img466/3601/day1zn9.jpg)
(http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/1967/night1iz6.jpg)

(http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/4207/day2kn8.jpg)
(http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/6085/night2ge1.jpg)

Iím particularly interested in learning your opinion on the night view. Do you think it is too dark? Do you think that roof looks too weird in night view? Are those bad enough to warrant re-export?
Take a serious look because this one is just a first in a series of quite a few of mid and high-rises. So it is quite important to get it right so that there will be consistency and quality to the entire series.
Another issue Iím a bit lost as to the residential capacity. There arenít really much references for the mid-rise of this size. Also should it be R$??
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: RippleJet on November 04, 2007, 04:15:57 PM
Another issue Iím a bit lost as to the residential capacity. There arenít really much references for the mid-rise of this size. Also should it be R$??

The building needs to be run through the "X Tool", not just in order to get an accurate capacity, but also for all other properties that rely on the capacity.
The filling degree will be rather low though. :)

And I think they need to be Rßß. ;)
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: M4346 on November 04, 2007, 04:20:11 PM
Yeah, I'm thinking a filling degree of 0.3 or 0.35

The BAT itself looks good to me, nightlights and all, and it is truly a superb model (in my opinion). But I can't tell much about the modding by judging off images though.
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: jmyers2043 on November 04, 2007, 07:19:26 PM
Very nice looking lot and building. A must download for me.
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: BarbyW on November 05, 2007, 03:47:51 AM
I feel that there are too many trees especially in the central part with the playground. It would be most unsafe to have a playground in the middle of a forest as the children could not be supervised safely. Thin out the trees by at least 2/3 and add some more playground items including the animated props. Ther is room in that area for a skateboard park as well.
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: SimFox on November 18, 2007, 08:55:59 AM
Sorry for delays, I've failed to get all I wanted ready for upload before my trip to China.
So here are download links for ready SC4Modle files.
Please feel free to take a look at them and suggest you stats and lot visions:

1. this is that mid-rise corner building exported with no trees:
(http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/6843/mrcmp0.jpg)

http://rapidshare.com/files/70565531/P44T_MRC_nt-0x5ad0e817_0x135c6ca8_0x1b0000.rar

2. 25 storey tower from same series, also with no trees
(http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/1628/towerny9.jpg)

http://rapidshare.com/files/70565529/P44MRC_Tower_LMtrees-0x5ad0e817_0x135c6ca8_0x1f0000.rar


3. This one is a combo - corner mid-rise and 25 storey tower exported together with trees.
(http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/5912/mrctoweruy9.jpg)
http://rapidshare.com/files/70565529/P44MRC_Tower_LMtrees-0x5ad0e817_0x135c6ca8_0x1f0000.rar

All are truNite.
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: jestarr on November 18, 2007, 10:17:09 AM
These are very good looking buildings. :thumbsup:  One thing, however, the second and third link goes to the same file; the one with trees.  Cheers!
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: BarbyW on November 24, 2007, 03:42:09 AM
I have taken the three models through the X_Tool and also done a suggested set of lots. The L shaped building has an occupancy of R$$ 1221/R$ 2209 and on a 6x6 lot is a stage 6. The L shaped building with the trees and tower included has an occupancy of R$$ 2078/R$ 3761 on a 6x6 lot is a stage 7. The tower on its own has an occupancy of R$$ 925/R$ 1673 on a 2x2 lot and is a stage 9. I have only used one external dependency - BSC MEGA Props - GC Vol01 as I wanted a fenced off safe area for the leisure area and there is nothing suitable in the Maxis props. The other external dependency is BSC Essentials for the CAM query in the tower although that could be changed to a standard Maxis one.
Here are some pictures of my suggestions. If you are happy with them I can send you the lots only or package them with a Readme - you give me the description text please - and in an installer. They can then be uploaded in your name once they have been scrutinised.

All three lots placed together - day picture

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/barbyw/SimFoxAll3.jpg)

All three lots placed together - night picture

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/barbyw/SimFoxAll3night.jpg)

The L shaped block with leisure area.

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/barbyw/SimFoxLshaped.jpg)
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: jayo on November 25, 2007, 02:49:37 AM
Nice stuff simfox :) Looking great  :P
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: kwakelaar on November 25, 2007, 09:29:02 AM
This is looking very nice, although I would much rather have the buildings without the trees.
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: SimFox on November 27, 2007, 09:15:51 PM
Barby, you've done great job! Great intergation of Tree'ed models and all in all very precise and accurate styling!! &apls

I'm in China now and can't do anything with this stuff I'll get back to you once I'm home again!
thank you, a-lot! :thumbsup:
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: SimFox on April 11, 2008, 08:23:23 AM
hello folks!
Can I get this baby CAMofied:


(http://i031.radikal.ru/0804/4b/a4a886e2513c.jpg)

(http://i024.radikal.ru/0804/99/b958c494cc7c.jpg)

(http://i036.radikal.ru/0804/eb/01bdc880d531.jpg)

(http://i048.radikal.ru/0804/5d/f489552fd098.jpg)
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: BarbyW on April 11, 2008, 09:05:50 AM
Of course you can. Send it me and I'll make the basic lot/s for you. Just let me know what you want in the way type/wealth etc.
I still have your corner residentials awaiting your approval for the lotting. Let me know about those too, please.
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: SimFox on April 11, 2008, 11:17:16 AM
Yep Shall do it later tonight, or tomorrow...
I think I want to re-render the day views, I've found one problem with them.
Barby, how about those lovely LOTs you've made for my previous project? I particularly love the one for corner building with the Tower and trees. I think the integration is top notch there. But also one with big playground looks great. I'll be re-rendering those models again to get a bit better hue integration with the game. but the lots don't need to be affected by that do they?
Can you send them to me and I think those could be uploaded to the STEX this weekend, and may be here to LEX as well??
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: BarbyW on April 11, 2008, 12:16:46 PM
If you re render the models with the same IIDs then it won't affect the lots. If they are completely "new" models then I shall have to adjust that in the lots. I'm glad you liked the lots as I was rather pleased with them ;D
Do you want the uploads in an installer as I can do that for you? I just need whatever information you want in the description section of the Readme and can do that for you.
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: callagrafx on April 11, 2008, 01:07:13 PM
Re-rendering in Bat4Max with the same IID is dodgy at best...It would probably be better to create a fresh model and update the TGI in the desc file (that's how I usually do it  :thumbsup: )
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: SimFox on April 11, 2008, 07:01:56 PM
I don't think that Max as such has anything to do with IDs... Those are set by GMAX in SC4Model. As long as you use the very same model file IDs got to be the same.
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: callagrafx on April 13, 2008, 02:56:59 AM
What can happen is the confusion over texture IDs and you get the checkerbox...BAT generates the IID for the model yes but BAT4Max creates the folders to store the BMP files which FSHMan uses to convert to FSH files, then DATCmd inserts these into the .sc4model file.  This process, as it has been proved time and again, if you re-use an IID can cause all kinds of problems, which is why best practice is to re-render with a fresh ID and change the TGI in the desc. 
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: SimFox on April 13, 2008, 08:48:56 AM
I disagree on all counts. I think this is a confused understanding of what and how Bat4Max does.
Plus it hold HUGE logical black hole - What is there to prevent BAT4Max to screw up in the case of new, fresh IDs?
Of course in a way one may say why not? If you want to create fresh IDs go ahead! On the other hand there is a danger in a approach that doesn't hold any logic and creates extra pointless work (re-working of the LOT) and creates false sense of understanding. That false taken as a truth would be used to built up farther logical constructs which ultimately also be false as they are grounded in reality.

PS I would love to see those proofs, as  I may be wrong...
Checker board usually occurs when lighting rig has been discoupled with its controller. There are many ways that could happen - one when you merge and then delete rig, or rotated controller by accident.
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: BarbyW on April 13, 2008, 08:51:14 AM
The lot does not need to be reworked with a new model. All it needs is to change the model reference in the Building Exemplar - a 2 minute job.
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: callagrafx on April 13, 2008, 12:50:45 PM
I disagree on all counts. I think this is a confused understanding of what and how Bat4Max does.
Plus it hold HUGE logical black hole - What is there to prevent BAT4Max to screw up in the case of new, fresh IDs?
Of course in a way one may say why not? If you want to create fresh IDs go ahead! On the other hand there is a danger in a approach that doesn't hold any logic and creates extra pointless work (re-working of the LOT) and creates false sense of understanding. That false taken as a truth would be used to built up farther logical constructs which ultimately also be false as they are grounded in reality.

PS I would love to see those proofs, as  I may be wrong...
Checker board usually occurs when lighting rig has been discoupled with its controller. There are many ways that could happen - one when you merge and then delete rig, or rotated controller by accident.

Disagree all you like, but the vast majority of us who use BAT4Max have had this problem in the past and the only workaround was a fresh set of IDs from BAT...where's the danger in creating a completely new, fresh sc4model file? None, as far as I can see...in fact it prevents a great many problems.  It takes 10 secs to open up Reader and change the RKT1 as Barby says...

The ID is calculated from a number of different local hardware settings to ensure each person who renders has a completely unique IID each time.  If you "re-use" an old ID, chances are the newly rendered files, when added to the sc4model will not match the IID of the model, causing checkerboxes which denote a missing texture reference.  An uncoupled light rig produces a different effect, such as wrongly aligned and distorted textures.

Quote
That false taken as a truth would be used to built up farther logical constructs which ultimately also be false as they are grounded in reality.
What on earth is that babble?  Why is it whenever you are offered advice you start talking like Buddha and argue the toss?  You hardly have a lot of experience with getting models into the game so I'd suggest you research a little more before dismissing what is taken as common practice by those of us who have released more than one BAT for the game.
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: zero7 on April 18, 2008, 02:26:36 PM
In my experience if you don't change either the filename you are saving to or the LOD you can always successfully rerender to the same model file.

If you make changes, save to a new .max file and then rerender, even with an unchanged LOD, it is likely to fail.
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: SimFox on April 19, 2008, 05:06:11 AM
Zero7 - of course you would successfully render it!

Bat4Max does NOTHING to all that stuff IDs and some such. It is Original BAT that is causing those problems, So naturally going and making NEW IDs would mean running pointless risk of getting bad ones when you've already got good ones.

This is precisely why I disagreed with Callagrafx. But it seems it is absolutely beyond his powers of control to not pick fights with me... $%Grinno$%.

Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: callagrafx on April 19, 2008, 10:10:02 PM
I never said the B4M script screwed up IDs, but the insertion of FSH files using associated programs that are integrated with B4M if the same IID is used from GMAX will cause texture errors. Your "theory" of unhinged dummies is incorrect and that's what I argued against.  Although I could apply the term "unhinged dummy" elsewhere... ::)

Try reading people's posts properly and stop with the Great God of Game Content act...you are not worthy.

As to my powers of control...

At the time of writing this I have travelled from Cardiff to London to Boston, driven from Boston to Albany, NY and spent 3 hours in the bar....my restraint and self control are superb thank you.


EDITOK, OK.  This is right up there on the line.  Sheesh, folks- let's mind our manners. -DE
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: BarbyW on July 30, 2008, 03:35:02 AM
SimFox, I still have the lots ready to go for the towers with the trees. Did you ever re-render the models? If so can you send them and I will change the refs in the lots.
I would love to see these on the LEX and it has been a long time since the lots were actually ready.
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: SimFox on August 21, 2008, 09:51:28 AM
OK after a long break here is another offering from me:
Office/retail combo corner building (inspired by one I've seen in Hangzhou, China)

South:
(http://s52.radikal.ru/i137/0808/67/1c309ea5593d.jpg)
(http://s52.radikal.ru/i135/0808/47/ead92aef8345.jpg)

East
(http://s48.radikal.ru/i119/0808/68/4518a570dc1a.jpg)
(http://s59.radikal.ru/i165/0808/1d/7cd9ff2aec01.jpg)

North
(http://s48.radikal.ru/i122/0808/40/fa80dd17c594.jpg)
(http://s41.radikal.ru/i094/0808/10/f2627ce757e9.jpg)

West
(http://s55.radikal.ru/i148/0808/6b/1e1a8f269b44.jpg)
(http://s56.radikal.ru/i154/0808/c2/9286edaf4594.jpg)

this is a 4x4 W2W block to be placed 2m away from the street. The building itself covers the entire LOT so no actual loting is needed. Of course, if someone would wish to make it let me know I can send you the model.

I think I'll make it to be CS$$. Any advise on the numbers?


Barby:
hank you for reminding me of those, I've completely forgot about them... To be honest I'm not sure if I did, but I can do it again. I have all the models and some such. I assume you mean that residential corner with a tower in the yard, right?







Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: BarbyW on August 21, 2008, 10:57:12 AM
Those are the ones, I meant, SimFox. If you haven't re-rendered the models there is no problem with getting them to the LEX once a Readme is done. Let me know, please.
Send me the model for the new building and I will do the lot and mod it for you.
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: SC4BOY on August 21, 2008, 02:20:39 PM
Very nice work.. and I think you've made the maxis stuff look VERY NICE on the package.. Keep it up!
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: SimFox on August 22, 2008, 02:36:13 AM
SC4Boy:
I'm not sure I understand you... what do you mean "maxis stuff look VERY NICE on the package."?


Barby and anyone else who might be knowledgeable:

Is it possible to RE-NAME ready SC4Model file and keep it working properly?
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: toxicpiano on August 22, 2008, 03:20:08 AM
Hey simfox, are they bays for trucks/lorrys on the back of that building? because there's a red wall in the way  :D
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: vester on August 22, 2008, 03:21:53 AM
There is gateway to the front of the building:
(http://s48.radikal.ru/i119/0808/68/4518a570dc1a.jpg)
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: RippleJet on August 22, 2008, 03:43:27 AM
Is it possible to RE-NAME ready SC4Model file and keep it working properly?

The name of the container file (the filename seen in a windows folder) is completely insignificant, and can in theory be named freely.
However, for the sake of being consistent, I'd at least leave the three hexadecimal numbers representing the TGI of the model and the file extension (SC4Model).
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: SimFox on August 22, 2008, 03:55:24 AM
Toxic- that is a "kremlin/great China Wall" on the way of decadent western consumerism :D And as history had proven very pointless one - full of holes  $%Grinno$%

Ripple:
great... I'm thinking of making different versions (in terms of night effects) of the building and hoped that I can give Model File descriptive names. Given that such models would be mutually exclusive I didn't wanted to create entirely new set of IDs. Or am I wrong or missing something? Would such an approach work?
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: RippleJet on August 22, 2008, 06:04:49 AM
I'm thinking of making different versions (in terms of night effects) of the building and hoped that I can give Model File descriptive names. Given that such models would be mutually exclusive I didn't wanted to create entirely new set of IDs. Or am I wrong or missing something? Would such an approach work?

That would work perfectly, if the model files inside have the same TGI addresses! :thumbsup:
And even if average Joe would install both model files, only the one loaded last would be used.
Thus, you might want to name them so that the default version alphabetically is loaded last.
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: SimFox on August 22, 2008, 06:42:54 AM
Yep, Ripple that is what I want to do!

Barby:
I, assume that you'll mod it to be CAMpatible. Right?
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: BarbyW on August 22, 2008, 06:46:52 AM
Of course I will, I can't do anything else these days ;D
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: SimFox on August 22, 2008, 07:21:20 AM
Barby:
Great! The Model Files are ready and I could sen them to you (or send you a download link because there is 4 models there) in few minutes.

Ripple:
Am I correct in thinking that Desc file is a temporary thing and not needed (for distribution, at least) after the LOT file had been created. Also I could use same basic Desc file for all 4 different (differently named) Model files, right?

Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: Andreas on August 22, 2008, 07:57:11 AM
For ploppables, you can always delete the loose SC4Desc file, since the building exemplar file inside will be copied into the SC4Lot file automatically when creating a lot. For growables, this is not the case, since one building exemplar file can serve for several lots. If you have only one growable lot, you can copy the building exemplar file manually into the SC4Lot file and delete the SC4Desc file as well, though. If you modify the models, so they all have the same ID, only one building exemplar file is needed, of course, since both the stats and the building IDs are the same.
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: RippleJet on August 22, 2008, 08:18:40 AM
Great! The Model Files are ready and I could sen them to you (or send you a download link because there is 4 models there) in few minutes.

I downloaded them as well and took a look at them...
I'm not sure how you apply your night effects to them, but they all contained a huge number of files with TGI 0x0, 0x0, 0x0.
The size of those files indicate that they are S3D and FSH files.
However, clicking on any of them in Reader causes it to crash...

I made new SC4Model files by copying those files that had correct TGI addresses from your files into new files.
Thus, I got the file size of each of them down from 5,400 kB to 2,170 kB ::)
I've sent the corrected files to Barby. ;)


Am I correct in thinking that Desc file is a temporary thing and not needed (for distribution, at least) after the LOT file had been created. Also I could use same basic Desc file for all 4 different (differently named) Model files, right?

Yes and Barby will take care of those, one for the growable and one for the ploppable.
And they will both be included in their corresponding SC4Lot files.
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: SimFox on August 22, 2008, 08:53:23 AM
Ripple:
I've noticed those odd UI files, but wasn't sure what they were... My reader also crashes when clicking on them. I don't really know how they came to be though. What I did is simply re-run DAT FSH Insert from Max. If you could kindly explain to me how to get rid of them, or point me to the place which had some instruction on the matter (how exactly did you create new SC4Model file and copied into it all the necessary stuff?)

The first set of SC4Model Files was faulty as 3 out of 4 contained only night views. I've fixed that now and you can re-download the file, (I've just sent you new link). But these also contain those TGI 000 files...
When I first noticed the absence of day view I've tried to copy day view FSH into SC4Model file but with no success. File were there but association with S3Ds was broken and wront textures were dysplayed. So in the end I did the same procedure as before (DAT FSH Insert) but with correct set of Index.fsh files.
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: RippleJet on August 22, 2008, 09:00:38 AM
I've noticed those odd UI files, but wasn't sure what they were... My reader also crashes when clicking on them. I don't really know how they came to be though. What I did is simply re-run DAT FSH Insert from Max. If you could kindly explain to me how to get rid of them, or point me to the place which had some instruction on the matter (how exactly did you create new SC4Model file and copied into it all the necessary stuff?)

I simply selected (highlighted) all files except those UI files (Reader thinks they are UI files due to the Type ID being 0x0).
Then copy (Ctrl-C), open up a new blank.dat file, and paste (Ctrl-V) them in there and save as a new file.


The first set of SC4Model Files was faulty as 3 out of 4 contained only night views. I've fixed that now and you can re-download the file, (I've just sent you new link). But these also contain those TGI 000 files...

No worries, I'll copy and paste them once more. ;)


EDIT:
Done, and Barby's got the latest models ;)
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: SimFox on August 22, 2008, 09:18:51 AM
yep I did fix mine ones here... I just made a copy of the origina file, purged it form all content and copied into it correct files... So basically there is no need to re-index anything, right?
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: RippleJet on August 22, 2008, 09:27:10 AM
yep I did fix mine ones here... I just made a copy of the origina file, purged it form all content and copied into it correct files... So basically there is no need to re-index anything, right?

Nope, they are automatically numbered consequtively when pasting.
And even if the DIR file contains errors after pasting, they will be corrected when saving.

However, it's good practice to always reindex and rebuild the directory file every time you've added or removed any of the files. ;)
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: SimFox on August 23, 2008, 10:39:52 AM
and here is anther one -
Krost (residential from moscow):

(http://s39.radikal.ru/i084/0808/5e/6329a5ae83bd.jpg)

(http://s39.radikal.ru/i086/0808/28/d18b76f9bbde.jpg)


it is not quite complete yet... But what left (roof) will not affect either size or anything of consequence. Right now the LOT is Bated. But there isn't much there. Grace is a place holder so I could get some reflection as well as bounced light from in on the building. I can either drop it and it will be added in LOT editor (same texture) or, may be keep. For second solution speaks the fact that I need that curved pathway (good FengShui) I doubt it would be possible to make same one in LOT editor (particularly make it lead to doors). And if I have bated pathway and Loted grass there will be quite noticeable discrepancy in terms of shadows. For some bizarre reason the sun in BAT (including original one) and Game doesn't coincide...
Of course I may export the building without pond or anything else for the Loting pleasures ;-)
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: BarbyW on August 25, 2008, 08:41:01 AM
There is a slight problem with the corner building as it is slightly over 4x4. There are two options: one is to make the lot 5x5; the other is to make the footprint of the building smaller so it fits in a 4x4. Can you tell me which you would prefer?
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: SimFox on August 25, 2008, 01:35:02 PM
I've altered stats in SC4Modle file to make it fit onto 4x4 lot.
It is Wall2Wall so it has to be aligned by the "back" corner to the Lot with architectural shader somewhat overhang over sidewalk.
like this:
(http://s47.radikal.ru/i118/0808/83/aa1b8fba2d12.jpg)

this way building will comply with 2 meter (from the "street") standard
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: BarbyW on August 25, 2008, 02:35:20 PM
I had actually done the same by altering the building footprint and aligning to the rear of the lot. I shall post just the lots attached to a post here later.
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: BarbyW on August 26, 2008, 10:29:09 AM
Argh, I can't attach a file at the moment so I have emailed them to you.
Edit - I have lost your email address so will PM the location to you. Sorry.
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: SimFox on August 30, 2008, 01:50:25 PM
You know what?? I went and calculated floorage/occupancy thing of the HZ corner building with quite a precision and, surprise surprise it came to be very VERY close to what you, Barby had suggested in a first place namely it turned out to need 847 CS$$ occupants...
I'm a bit lost now what shall I do... Follow the logic of the game or convention of it. First says it should be 800+ jobs, and second sayz wait a minute there ain't no CS$$ building close big to that.

But while I'm pondering about that, I would love to hear idea about CAM occupancy for this one:

(http://s48.radikal.ru/i121/0808/e8/094c20c449f7.jpg)
(http://i064.radikal.ru/0808/e8/d11e39137f36.jpg)
(http://s44.radikal.ru/i104/0808/67/3afa7e2fbe82.jpg)
(http://s49.radikal.ru/i126/0808/20/4c5b0b7a3e09.jpg)

Following the formulas it would be 1317 R$$ but isn't it too little for a 40 storey tower?
As it is now it is a 3x3 lot with complelly bated lot that leave no gaps, but I'm prepared to release the lotless version as well.

Also, as I gather, the LOT stage is dependent on occupants per tile of LOT, but isn't it a bit skewed model? This in a way prohibit large public spaces associated with many large buildings found in bigger cities. Shouldn't it also be more dependent on the density of the actual built up area?

The regular (non-Cam) version is on already STEX: http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=20294 (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=20294)
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: BarbyW on August 30, 2008, 02:50:33 PM
I will let Tage answer you on the values but I am downloading from the STEX and will let you know what the X_Tool comes up with for occupancy of the Krost Tower.

The X_Tool gives an occupancy of R$:5499 and R$$: 3037. This gives a stage 10 on a 3x4 lot but by changing the footprint to allow a 3x3 lot it becomes stage 11.
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: RippleJet on August 31, 2008, 03:43:16 AM
First says it should be 800+ jobs, and second sayz wait a minute there ain't no CS$$ building close big to that.

A department store? ::)


Also, as I gather, the LOT stage is dependent on occupants per tile of LOT, but isn't it a bit skewed model? This in a way prohibit large public spaces associated with many large buildings found in bigger cities.

No, it won't prohibit larger lots... that larger lot would only have a lower growth stage.

I'll turn the question the other way around...
Consider your skyscraper growing on a large lot at say, stage 8.
Then, consider that the "owner" of the lot, later when the city has grown even further,
realises that he can fit another similar tower on the empty space of his lot.
Isn't it natural that this would be allowed only at a higher growth stage?


Shouldn't it also be more dependent on the density of the actual built up area?

Being a mayor in SC4 that can be controlled in only one way... zone density.
Zone high density only in areas where you want skyscrapers.


The X_Tool gives an occupancy of R$:5499 and R$$: 3037. This gives a stage 10 on a 3x4 lot but by changing the footprint to allow a 3x3 lot it becomes stage 11.

That's with a filling degree of 50%, which I would consider a bit too high though... ::)
35% would probably have been better, considering the pond is included in the LOD box.
That would have given it an occupancy of 2127 Rßß and 3851 Rß, growing as a stage 9 on 3◊3.
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: SimFox on September 03, 2008, 05:13:29 AM
Ripple:
Actually there is a tool in 3ds Max that calculates the volume of any given object. This way there is no need for filling degree estimation. Or do you think this is too much?

I also have a couple of new questions. What shall I do if I want to make different color versions of the same building? Should they have unique TGI? I would also like to try make them into a building family so to randomize their appearance on the LOT.

Another one is about making the "mega" lot with more then one building. AS far as I know only one object on the LOT can be building and as such have Occupancy, pollution and consumption data attached to it. So others would need to be props, right? In thin case how to make those numbers (consumption, occupancy, etc) scale with the size of the lot (number of buildings on it)?

Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: wouanagaine on September 03, 2008, 05:43:39 AM
Quote
Actually there is a tool in 3ds Max that calculates the volume of any given object. This way there is no need for filling degree estimation. Or do you think this is too much?
Most of properties are based on boundingbox volume, some others need the height or only width/depth of boundingbox, hence the need of a proper filling degree estimation

Quote
I also have a couple of new questions. What shall I do if I want to make different color versions of the same building? Should they have unique TGI? I would also like to try make them into a building family so to randomize their appearance on the LOT.
if 2 stuffs have same TGI then only one will be used in game
And yes do use building family as explained in the 'making a family' thread ( or somehting like that, I don't remember it )

Quote
Another one is about making the "mega" lot with more then one building. AS far as I know only one object on the LOT can be building and as such have Occupancy, pollution and consumption data attached to it. So others would need to be props, right? In thin case how to make those numbers (consumption, occupancy, etc) scale with the size of the lot (number of buildings on it)?
Use Building as prop and adjust the filling degree of the 'real building' by taking into account the volume of 'fake buildings'

Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: BarbyW on September 03, 2008, 05:44:34 AM
To answer the first point, not everyone uses 3DSMax especially lotmakers so the Filling Degree is needed.
If you want to make colour variations you can do the same as you did with the corner building and make the models with the same TGI so that only one will ever be used as Ripplejet explained. If you make them with different TGIs then they can be put into a building family so any one of them can grow thsus giving more variety for one lot.
Finally, about Mega lots, you are correct in thinking that one one building can be used on a lot but by finding the initial stats for one building you can change the stats to accommodate more "buildings" which are actually props. In the X_Tool this would be done by changing the Filling Degree.
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: SimFox on September 03, 2008, 08:31:05 AM
Wouanagaine:
I'm not talking about BAT, but the 3ds Max core functionality, so it isn't bounding box volume that I'm referring to  bu the volume of the building itself. In a way this is most precise number with no need to estimation of filing degree. Of course it could be argued that if we go down this precision road should we take into account the "unused" space withing the building itself?? Anywho I just thought that since I don't have X-Tool I can skip the whole filling degree business and use defacto volume.

Barby:
I know that not everyone using 3ds max, but if it's used, then, I guess, such a feature could be used, right? The whole point of my question was are we aiming for precision, or for "bracketed" system  with few delimited "stages" say 1.0, 0.75, 0.5, 0.3, etc...

OK, I get the Building family and different TGI thing, I guess that is what I need, since I want the situation where all of the colors (if user would want to) be available simultaneously. 
But about making "megalot" (in this case not necessarily bigger then 6x6, although I think it will end up in that category as well) but with more then one building. So I have one SC4Model and 2 different Desc files linked to it one for single building and another "expanded" to accommodate the occupants and consumption of the rest of expected LOT "prop-buildings" right? and I can make also Prop Desc files from same very SC4Modles I use for building Desc, right? I mean I don't need to export it all over again to make it a prop...

Hope I express myself in a fashion clear enough for others to understand...
Sorry if that isn't the case, and please, ask if something isn't clear...

BTW here is a tower in question:

(http://s56.radikal.ru/i152/0809/e7/2eeb56510dea.jpg)

 &Thk/(


Image size reduced... I don't think we need all 1143◊869 pixels to see the colour variations... ::)
/Tage
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: Andreas on September 03, 2008, 08:51:12 AM
The color variants look great, and they surely make a nice set. :) And yes, you can make building and prop exemplar files from the same model; this is needed for mega lots with more than one model (one is the building and the others are props). Building families and prop families are basically the same, so you can use one ID for both. Since the building/prop family property is just another reference method, you don't need two building exemplar files for two different lots where one is supposed to have a specific building model and the other one a randomly chosen model. Only for said mega lots, a new building exemplar file is needed that has different values for accomodating the higher amount of buildings that will be shown on the lot. Using building/prop families also means that someone can safely remove the pink model (along with the respective exemplar file), for instance, if he doesn't like it. The game will still choose between the other models in this case.
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: RippleJet on September 04, 2008, 05:44:50 AM
Ripple:
Actually there is a tool in 3ds Max that calculates the volume of any given object. This way there is no need for filling degree estimation. Or do you think this is too much?

Getting the volume from 3ds Max is of course the most precise number we can get! ;)
And that's what I would have wanted to have for the "X Tool" when calculating the occupancy and other properties.

Unfortunately, that volume is not available to most lotters, who would only have the SC4Model file... ::)
Thus we have to rely on the extreme coordinates of the LOD box and estimate the true volume using a filling degree.

If you're saying that the volume in 3ds Max would have given the Krost a Rßß occupancy of 1317,
then that is a good example of how easy it is to over-estimate the filling degree.
Even 35% is too high, 22% would be closer to the truth... and 3037 inhabitants is definitely too high in that case!

There's nothing saying you can't use the true volume of the building. :)
You may give this value to Barby or me with the model, and we'll set the filling degree to correspond to that volume!
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: SimFox on September 08, 2008, 04:18:46 PM
Sorry that I didnít reply sooner.

Iíll try to address all the issue youíve raised in your message. OK, letís start.

Lots for the residential Corner and Corner+Tower combo.
Well, that project in a way fell through the gap between two software versions, to different lighting rigs, GI and other settings. Since I my projects are normally highly optimized for a give solution porting them often results in somewhat unpredictable results. To do it right (better still improve on the previous result) takes time and effort, sometime considerably bigger than making them in the first place. Naturally not always it appears as a reasonable solution. Additional issue was residents number, but more on this issue later. As for LOTs I did like them, but never gotten them thoughÖ and since you didnít (apparently) sent them to me what could have I done?

Hangzhou Corner CS$$ building (aka QuiTao Building)
I sent you and Tage 4 different versions not to take all of them through the XTool. Since the difference was purely visual same numbers would be applicable. Idea was to receive some view as to the look. None had followed. Iím sorry for all the TGI 000000 files inside, not sure how they got in (probably as a result of truNite automating script I was starting working on at that time) But Iíve suggested that I can clear those out but Tage told me he had done it already.
Stats that were assigned to the building didnít look logical to my eye. I didnít know the inner workings of Xtool at that stage, but they just didnít look right. Now, since Tage explained some of it to me I know why Ė thatís why the new discussion of volume estimation precision had started. Since I donít have the tool I have to do it on paper or (what Iíve started doing) writing my own simple script for that purpose.  As you could see the STEX release had numbers different then youíve suggested (I thought that it was a suggestion that I could be free to choose to accept or not). Iíve tried to balance numbers from formulas with apparent bracketing system existing in Maxis default buildings. In the end I used the jobs number derived from precise volume of the building itself and consumption/pollution numbers adjust to the similar(by job numbers) default buildings.
In case of STEX I knew that I was within my right. I did inform downloaders what they were getting (sorry for the Stage8 Ė stage5 mixup more on this later). However, here, on LEX, I donít have same possibility and the entire process isnít the most clear one. I would have (if I could) uploaded the same files I did to STEX. On the other hand I still sort of wish to get more ďscientificĒ about it.

Krost.
This one I can consider a poster boy for all the confusion about residents/jobs numbers and stages.
If I follow the logic of volume/floorage to the letter it would have 1317 residents and given its bated 3x3 lot be a stage 8 CAM building. Yet it is a 40+ storey skyscraper! IT would stick out very much among itss stage8 pears. Much smaller looking Maxis buildings have 2-3 times as many R$$ residents. Also if game operates with size of the LOD/LOD bounding box how would such a building fit in? All these are still very much open questions to me.
Since there wasnít anything to LOT with this version of Krost I saw no reason to send it anywhere.
So for STEX release I just went with ďlooksĒ convention. The height of the building suggested stage8 (in conventional system) so I just gave the tower stats along the lines of other Maxis Stage8 R$$ building of similar (on a lower side) size. Again this was my own decision that I didnít need to explain, just inform. Here with whole ďscrutineersĒ concept it feels way different, as you need to explain yourself every step.

Stage8 vs.5 in QuiTao building.
Iím a bit surprised by this issue. I specifically had chosen the stage5 Cs$$ lot as a template. I didnít know that somehow it will be reassigned as stage8 but Lot editor. Good to know of such illogical and hence hard to predict possibility. Shall check for this in the future.
All that said, Iím still somewhat in the dark as to the precise procedure one is suppose to follow here. For instance the whole read me thing. How and why should it be different than info I usually give on STEX? In what form/standard it should be provided?


PS.
new export of Res Corner with tower and trees had just finished. So the model is done, bu the same issue with resident number is evident here as well. Would I go with Volume the entire thing that fits on minimum 6x6 lot would have 943 R$$. This will make it stage 6 lot. But how would 25 storey tower look in stage6 environment, particularly a CAM stage6 one??
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: BarbyW on September 09, 2008, 02:47:14 AM
Sorry that I didnít reply sooner.

Iíll try to address all the issue youíve raised in your message. OK, letís start.

Lots for the residential Corner and Corner+Tower combo.
Well, that project in a way fell through the gap between two software versions, to different lighting rigs, GI and other settings. Since I my projects are normally highly optimized for a give solution porting them often results in somewhat unpredictable results. To do it right (better still improve on the previous result) takes time and effort, sometime considerably bigger than making them in the first place. Naturally not always it appears as a reasonable solution. Additional issue was residents number, but more on this issue later. As for LOTs I did like them, but never gotten them thoughÖ and since you didnít (apparently) sent them to me what could have I done?

I didn't send them to you as you said you were re-rendering the models.

Quote
Hangzhou Corner CS$$ building (aka QuiTao Building)
I sent you and Tage 4 different versions not to take all of them through the XTool. Since the difference was purely visual same numbers would be applicable. Idea was to receive some view as to the look. None had followed. Iím sorry for all the TGI 000000 files inside, not sure how they got in (probably as a result of truNite automating script I was starting working on at that time) But Iíve suggested that I can clear those out but Tage told me he had done it already.


This is an example of how you need to make sure that your models are correct before lotting them as the first set I downloaded were faulty apart from the 0x0 TGIs and I had to re download another set also with the 0x0 TGIs. You said you didn't know how to remove them at the time



Quote
Stats that were assigned to the building didnít look logical to my eye. I didnít know the inner workings of Xtool at that stage, but they just didnít look right. Now, since Tage explained some of it to me I know why Ė thatís why the new discussion of volume estimation precision had started. Since I donít have the tool I have to do it on paper or (what Iíve started doing) writing my own simple script for that purpose.  As you could see the STEX release had numbers different then youíve suggested (I thought that it was a suggestion that I could be free to choose to accept or not). Iíve tried to balance numbers from formulas with apparent bracketing system existing in Maxis default buildings. In the end I used the jobs number derived from precise volume of the building itself and consumption/pollution numbers adjust to the similar(by job numbers) default buildings.
In case of STEX I knew that I was within my right. I did inform downloaders what they were getting (sorry for the Stage8 Ė stage5 mixup more on this later). However, here, on LEX, I donít have same possibility and the entire process isnít the most clear one. I would have (if I could) uploaded the same files I did to STEX. On the other hand I still sort of wish to get more ďscientificĒ about it.

My point on this building is that work was done by both Tage and I that was not necessary as you produced a completely different version for the STEX that has not been proposed for LEX upload.

Quote
Krost.
This one I can consider a poster boy for all the confusion about residents/jobs numbers and stages.
If I follow the logic of volume/floorage to the letter it would have 1317 residents and given its bated 3x3 lot be a stage 8 CAM building. Yet it is a 40+ storey skyscraper! IT would stick out very much among itss stage8 pears. Much smaller looking Maxis buildings have 2-3 times as many R$$ residents. Also if game operates with size of the LOD/LOD bounding box how would such a building fit in? All these are still very much open questions to me.
Since there wasnít anything to LOT with this version of Krost I saw no reason to send it anywhere.
So for STEX release I just went with ďlooksĒ convention. The height of the building suggested stage8 (in conventional system) so I just gave the tower stats along the lines of other Maxis Stage8 R$$ building of similar (on a lower side) size. Again this was my own decision that I didnít need to explain, just inform. Here with whole ďscrutineersĒ concept it feels way different, as you need to explain yourself every step.

For LEX upload you still need to get the files to me so that I can pass them to the scrutineers. This means a zip with the model and lots, the necessary desc files, 2 images 250x188 and a Readme. You do not need to explain yourself every step of the way but as you have seen you can make errors with models and I can make errors estimating the Filling Degree. This is why in BSC we all post files for scrutineering. Nothing gets posted to the LEX without it being posted at our private site first.
Personally I don't care how you upload to the STEX but I do care about uploads to the LEX and no one gets upload rights until we are happy that their work is of all round quality. I am not talking about looks here but the final stats for a building/lot.

Quote
Stage8 vs.5 in QuiTao building.
Iím a bit surprised by this issue. I specifically had chosen the stage5 Cs$$ lot as a template. I didnít know that somehow it will be reassigned as stage8 but Lot editor. Good to know of such illogical and hence hard to predict possibility. Shall check for this in the future.

One of the known vagaries of LE that was pointed out to others many times at Simtropolis. LE sets the growth stage based on the size/volume of the building so it doesn't matter what base you use as a template LE will try to make it the correct growth stage. It is always necessary to fully check all files and to test them in game BEFORE uploading.

Quote
All that said, Iím still somewhat in the dark as to the precise procedure one is suppose to follow here. For instance the whole read me thing. How and why should it be different than info I usually give on STEX? In what form/standard it should be provided?

Procedure to follow is simple and laid out in a stickied post at the start of this forum.
1. Let me, Tage or xxdita have your proposed uploads in the form I have described above. Whilst we prefer installers it is not a pre-requisite.
2.The files are posted at the private BSC site for our scrutineers.
3. Reports by the scrutineers are posted here and if there are any problems they need to be addressed. If there are no problems the files will be posted to the LEX.
4. After approximately 4 or 5 uploads to the LEX you should be given your own upload rights. This is providing no problems have been reported by other members.

Tage explained about the Readme last September and told you how to use SC4Tool on your machine. The Readme should be a separate document file included in the zip.

Quote
PS.
new export of Res Corner with tower and trees had just finished. So the model is done, bu the same issue with resident number is evident here as well. Would I go with Volume the entire thing that fits on minimum 6x6 lot would have 943 R$$. This will make it stage 6 lot. But how would 25 storey tower look in stage6 environment, particularly a CAM stage6 one??

Let me have the new models and we can discuss capacity once the new models are in the lots.
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: SimFox on September 09, 2008, 04:49:24 AM
OK
I shall certainly take it under advisement.

Generally I consider this thread as a discussion place and not ego stroking praise collection. I would much rather have someone point my mistake, explain them  so I could avoid them in the future then just do oh-ahs... For instance then LE behavior. I'm sure it has been pointed our numerous times in numerous places. But given vastness SC4 web presence and limited time and attention  /wrrd%& chances are that one wouldn't necessary come across such information.

About pictures. I assume 250x188 is a minimum size, right? I mean in H terms...

BTW do you remember/know who was doing CAM versions of the Moscow RED LOTs? (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1217)

Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: callagrafx on September 09, 2008, 04:58:55 AM
About pictures. I assume 250x188 is a minimum size, right? I mean in H terms...

No, this is a fixed image dimension for LEX uploads....it's actually the same dimensions that STEX uses and we did this to make it easier for people who upload to both exchanges.  The LEX will reject any image not matching these dimensions.  You can have (within reason of course) any size image you wish in the readme though.
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: BarbyW on September 09, 2008, 05:04:48 AM
M and I did some variations on your lot and I think JMyers2043 did some too.
You are right in thinking this is primarily a discussion thread but it is also where you should state what you are offering for candidacy with a link to the uploads or by sending them to Tage, xxdita or me. We need to know exactly what you wish to be considered as I am afraid we are not mind readers $%Grinno$%
The images should be 250x188 although they can be longer. The should not, however, exceed 250 in width.
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: SimFox on September 09, 2008, 06:42:51 AM
yeah...
Well As I have staed already I'm a bit confused now about occupancy numbers... I just don't know what logic to follow, the one of the formulas (as applied in PIM or X-Tool but with a precision true volume), or just the visual cues like building height or lot size needed to accommodate it's footprint.

Speaking about the Moscow Red... Trying to get the sense of then Whole CAMofying process I've been reading what I could find here on SC4Devotion (mostly Tage's threads in XTool section) and by looking at the LOT files in iLive Reader. This includes the LOTs of Moscow Red that are here on LEX. And here I have a bit of a problem... According to Tages info in order to be CAMpatible LOTs building exemplar should (at least for the growth stages above 8 ) include special values in Occupant Group property. those for CAM type and CAM Stage. But none of the two Moscow Red here oin LEX have them despite being a stage9 lots... Am I missing something?

PS
what is exact functionality of Filling degree property? is it limited for the calculating the occupancy and consumption/pollution numbers? or does it play some role in the actual simulation run by the game?
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: JoeST on September 09, 2008, 08:35:58 AM
SimFox: Filling Degree links:

http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2306.msg68219#msg68219

http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2308.msg68248#msg68248
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: SimFox on September 09, 2008, 09:07:19 AM
JoeST:
Unfortunately information on those threads (I'm aware of them) doesn't answer my question in a definitive way.

I'm interested if filling degree value/property has any importance past occupancy/consumption/pollution number generation. Or once those numbers are obtained could be safely disposed of.
In my case since IO don't have an access to XTool but instead have very precise information on Volume what should I do?
Calculate this value? Or simple discard it, since I could come to all the figures without it?
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: RippleJet on September 10, 2008, 05:05:55 AM
JoeST:
Unfortunately information on those threads (I'm aware of them) doesn't answer my question in a definitive way.

Well, we are already more precise than Maxis ever was...
All in-game R and IC buildings have an occupancy based on the extreme coordinates of the LOD box.

Maxis PIM also calculates them this way.
When making PIM-X we added the Filling Degree and tuned the formulas so that a Filling Degree of 50% would give the same occupancy as Maxis PIM.


I'm interested if filling degree value/property has any importance past occupancy/consumption/pollution number generation. Or once those numbers are obtained could be safely disposed of.

The following properties depend (directly or indirectly) on the filling degree:



In my case since IO don't have an access to XTool but instead have very precise information on Volume what should I do?
Calculate this value? Or simple discard it, since I could come to all the figures without it?

I think it would be easier for all if you simply let someone who's got the X Tool make the building exemplar. ;)
And, if you wish to proivde the exact volume of the model, that can be used to tweak the filling degree precisely.
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: SimFox on September 10, 2008, 08:26:03 AM
Barby, I'll take that into consideration.
But for now I want to know about those Moscow Red LOTs that had been uploaded here on LEX. Are they proper working CAM lots or are they are faulty ones? As I've mentioned I they don't have proper CAM R$$ and Stage9 occupant groups (as explained in Tage's thread).
Can you, please, check this and let me know?
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: BarbyW on September 10, 2008, 08:30:06 AM
The lots are fine although they are missing the OGs which means they will not count towards the CAM counters. When Tage returns I shall ask him about them as he did those.
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: RippleJet on September 10, 2008, 04:45:49 PM
When Tage returns I shall ask him about them as he did those.

 &ops
Tage reads and hides his head in sand... ()lurker()

Moscow Red was modded by me, and it's definitely not the first time that the CAM OG's have been forgotten...
Luckily it doesn't happen to me alone... ::)

I could as well blame Wouanagaine for it, as he hasn't made that an automated process in the X Tool...
but I'll be nice and blame it on myself. ()testing()
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: SimFox on September 10, 2008, 05:19:55 PM
but that does affects only statistics in "Cam survey" right? not the actual growability of the lot...
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: RippleJet on September 10, 2008, 05:24:44 PM
but that does affects only statistics in "Cam survey" right? not the actual growability of the lot...

No, it will grow without problems. :thumbsup:
The OG's are there only for the CAMeLot Counter to be able to count it.
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: BarbyW on September 14, 2008, 11:37:25 AM
I have made building families for each pair of models and so there are 6 lots with the possibility of 2 variations in each. The lots are virtually identical to the originals that I made and you now have the file.
Please let me know when you have collected it so I can delete it from the server. You may want to check/change the names that I have used. This is what shows in the lot query so if you do want to change them just edit the Exemplar Name in each exemplar. All the appropriate exemplars are embedded in the correct lot file and the models are in dats - one for each type. There are two CAMelots that have the CAM query and OGs. This means that the two stage 9 lots have a dependency on BSC Essentials  (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=443) for the query. If you do not want the dependency then you will need to change the query to the standard Maxis one that is in all the others.
The only other dependency is BSC MEGA Props gascooker Vol01 (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=397) for the walls round the playground in the corner lot without the tower.
Once you have made Readmes for each set with appropriate LEX images send them to me and I can post the files for scrutineering.
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: RippleJet on September 14, 2008, 11:39:05 AM
Pretty accurate on the Filling Degrees of 0.9, 0.25 and 0.193.
However, the diagonal ones will not be 0.9...

Volume: 39292 m3
FD: 0,9

The only properties that are seen about the size of the model in the building exemplar is the Occupant Size, which lists the orthogonal width, height and depth of the LOD box (extreme coordinates).

The images below shows the Occupant Size as a yellow box:

(http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee198/RippleJet/SimFoxP44SmallOrtho.jpg)Occupant Size Width:

Occupant Size Height:

Occupant Size Depth:

Occupant Size Volume:

Model Volume:

Filling Degree:
31.0 m

69.9 m

20.0 m

43,338 m≥

39,292 m≥

0,907


(http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee198/RippleJet/SimFoxP44SmallDiag.jpg)Occupant Size Width:

Occupant Size Height:

Occupant Size Depth:

Occupant Size Volume:

Model Volume:

Filling Degree:
31.5 m

69.9 m

31.5 m

69,358 m≥

39,292 m≥

0,567


A filling degree of 0.57 for the diagonal should give roughly the same occupancy as 0.90 for the orthogonal.
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: SimFox on September 15, 2008, 01:00:10 PM
could you please issue me one?
I've exported 8 tree models to be used as props and would like to make them into prop family. And generally have plans to make more various prop/building families
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: SimFox on September 16, 2008, 07:18:24 AM
While I'm tiding up P44 series, making lots, readmes, etc. here is two LOTs that are ready as is:

Krost Tower (R$$ or should it be R$$$??)

(http://s41.radikal.ru/i093/0809/0b/e01e4343814c.jpg)

download: Krost Tower (http://rapidshare.com/files/145730839/Krost_Tower_Pond_3x3_0x5ad0e817_0x135c6ca8_0x540000.zip)
3x3 lot
Volume: 177 587m3
Filling degree: 0,435


QuiTao building (Cs $$)

(http://s42.radikal.ru/i097/0809/09/8398dc6eb608.jpg)

download: QiuTao Building (http://rapidshare.com/files/145730209/QiuTao_builidng.zip)
4x4 lot
Volume: 116 657m3
Filling degree: 0,59


this one will need to be loted, still the model is exported (4 color variants) I shall be released too. And to pay my respect it shall be released on LEX first.
TRB Tower (R$$)

(http://s56.radikal.ru/i153/0809/62/a21482e3d8ba.jpg)
this is a purple(ish) version

download all 4 of them (I believe only one need to be put through XTool as they are identical in all respects but the color). I'll make them into building family):
TRB Yellow (http://rapidshare.com/files/145733896/TRB_Yellow-0x5ad0e817_0x135c6ca8_0x590000.zip)
TRB Orange (http://rapidshare.com/files/145732433/TRB_Orange-0x5ad0e817_0x135c6ca8_0x580000.zip)
TRB Pink (http://rapidshare.com/files/145732926/TRB_Pink-0x5ad0e817_0x135c6ca8_0x570000.zip)
TRB Purple(ish) (http://rapidshare.com/files/145733558/TRB_Purple-0x5ad0e817_0x135c6ca8_0x560000.zip)
3x3 lot
Volume: 130 650m3
Filling degree: 0,51

These are completely ready and since Krost and QiuTao don't need any LOTing could be ready as soon as Descs are made. So, please could someone make this happen?
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: Shadow Assassin on September 16, 2008, 09:01:58 AM
Quote
this is a purple(ish) version

Purple?

No way, it looks too pink for that. :P

But doesn't matter - it looks great anyway. I've been waiting for those apartment buildng sets for so long, it's great to see that they're finally close to LOTting.
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: callagrafx on September 16, 2008, 09:38:06 AM
So, please could someone make this happen?

Making the CAMpatible Descs or making the LOTs? 
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: SimFox on September 20, 2008, 04:04:18 AM
Barby:
here is an alternative download link for the chestnuts: http://rapidshare.com/files/146803532/SimFoxProps_8Chestnuts.dat (http://rapidshare.com/files/146803532/SimFoxProps_8Chestnuts.dat)

as for the growth chances... true, now there are 8 times chances, but another issue is that there isn't really much competition in that size/capacity range, at least on my machine. so when I was testing them one at the time they were growing just as often but with no variety (naturally). If LOts were of different size, say 3x3 or 3x4 the picture would have been very different I believe.
One question if I would want to make some additional lots I would need to list this upload as a dependency, right? Or should I make separate one with models only?
Title: SimFox asks for help
Post by: SimFox on September 20, 2008, 05:15:51 AM
I thought that posing download link to installer would give more scrutineers access to it and, as Barby is overworked already, to lighten her load.
Could you kindly elaborate on couple of things for me:
1. You've had no objections to same very thing just a few days ago in the thread "next door", but feel justified to use a threat of force here.
2. Barby had suggested in another thread "next door" to attach files to message for I quote "as that will give a broader beta test for you".
am I missing something here?


Barby... Yeah that's very logical.
I just wonder how decent is to release such a "micro" pack. Also if to make it to be used in MEGA lots with multiple buildings then the building exemplars should be made for the specific mega-lot - say 3 or 4 times the stats (depending on the number of towers used).
Another question I was curious about.. See, I plan to make the Corner midrise very "green" enve more so than one with midrise + tower. So, I though may be such a green lot could have a building with reduced air pollution stats? problem, of course is that if it used without the trees it becomes inaccurate.
Or would it be "legal" to give the prop itself air "cleaning" property? It should be possible to just add it in Reader, wouldn't it?