This thread will be the new SC4D base of operations for my current power pole BAT project. It will serve as both a support topic for my existing creations, and a showcase for any new BATs that I decide to make. Let's start with my current set [off-site linkie] (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=20369). Although it is off-site, one of my eventual goals is LEX candidacy, which I will consider when I'm ready.
Here are some pics:
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Questions, comments, and constructive criticism about any of my creations are welcome.
metarvo,
Great to see that you have your own thread now. The poles look great and I am amazed that these are your first upload, they look like you have done this for years. Keep up the good work and I cannot wait for Elizabeth County to catch up in history so that I can start using these in my region :thumbsup:
Initial thoughts are that the steel pylon is too "thick"...in that the struts that make it up are too thick and there are too many of them. It also suffers from BAT "squash" where the psuedo isometric view gives the visual impression of being flatter....try scaling the model up by 20% vertically only.
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projectadam: I am glad that you like them. I will keep an eye out for them each time I visit your MD. :) I admit, there are some things that I wish I had done better when I made these, and I may make some changes to them at one point or another, but there will be more on that later.
callagrafx: As far as the large number of struts go, I did use a RL picture as a guide when I BATted the poles, and carefully placed struts based on the pic. I do agree with you about the thickness, though. I deliberately made the poles somewhat thick so they would be more visible in-game, but it seems like I went a little overboard. I have also heard of the BAT "squash" effect that you refer to, and I have been told one other time that the poles are short, so I'm sure this is the reason.
Thanks for the replies. :)
Hey man great looking stuff
I posted that tut i promised back in the other thread. And included the basic models. Let me know if you want more. http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2105.msg215520#msg215520 (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2105.msg215520#msg215520)
Cheers
Bud
buddybud: Of course, I do still visit and post in the other thread, so I did check out your tutorial. It looks very helpful, if I do say so myself. :)
The pole thickness issue has begun to bother me somewhat, and it has been mentioned to me more than once, so I have given some thought into correcting it. Doing so would require a complete overhaul of every metal pole that I have made so far, but I would make the new poles a separate release, rather than an override, so as to lessen the impact on those that are already using them. Here's a teaser of what I'm up to now:
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The old model is on the left, and the new, thinner model is on the right.
UPDATE: I have finished the orthogonal model, including the isolators. The wired version is rendering as I speak.
I like the thinner version much better. Glad to see you've opened your own BAT thread. I expect we'll see some good things from you in the future. Enjoy it.
-Matt
Thinner is better. I like it.
Quote from: metarvo on January 27, 2009, 03:35:20 PM
Doing so would require a complete overhaul of every metal pole that I have made so far, but I would make the new poles a separate release, rather than an override, so
Here's a tip....if you create a circle and then extrude it, then clone it but make it an
instance rather than a copy for each strut that has the same length, you will be able to adjust the diameter of the strut for that particular length :thumbsup: For different lengths, follow the same procedure but make the extrude longer. If you keep to only 4 or 5 master objects, then changing them is a snap and takes no time at all.
Looking good, but don't forget to add some isolators. :thumbsup:
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threestooges: I'm glad you like the thinner pole better. I'll try to not disappoint you. :)
Fresh Prince: I'm happy that you like the new style.
callagrafx: This sounds like a good idea. The problem is that I'm so far into the new model that I would still have to redo everything to implement your strategy. Unfortunately, I used lines. &mmm
ehbk2006: Thank you for the compliment. Now, about those isolators...
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Both models are again side by side, this time with the new model on the left. I have not made the base transparent yet, but the orthogonal wired model is rendered. My previous power lines had six wires, but these actually have twelve, since I later realized that the RL counterparts typically have twelve. I finally got shadows to work, but they are jagged and don't cover the entire span of the wires. Does anyone have any suggestions?
Yeah, very nice, but do you some pics from french pylons? :thumbsup:
Sciurus: The only ones that I'm really familiar with are American pylons. The only French power line project I know of at the moment is this one. [linkie] (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=6503.0) It's been quiet for over a month, though, so I'm not sure if any recent progress has been made.
I do have a question for the SC4D members. What can I do to get these into the Power menu? Previously, I placed my power poles in the Park category in PIM, and I based my power pole on the 1x1 Maxis Open Grass Area lot (pz1x1_grass) in LE. I really want the poles to be in the Power menu. First of all, it makes sense, and has been suggested to me before. Second of all (and perhaps even more seriously ::)) my park menu is already overcrowded, and I'm sure almost everyone else's is, too. I don't want these poles to produce power, though. I know it may be a dumb question, but I want this to be the best project it can be.
Yes, but there's other, and if you want, I can give you photos ;) :thumbsup:
Sciurus: That's good. I have always wondered about the power grids in other countries. :)
I realize it's been awfully quiet in here, but I do have a development pic:
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I have completed the four orientations (orthogonal, diagonal, fractional-NNE, and fractional-NNW), and I already have the basic unwired model for the 24-degree turn BATted. Once that's completed, the Metal 00 v. 2.0 set will be up to the same stage of development as my already-released version. For now, the poles are still in the Park menu, but have the Maxis-standard "Pz1x1_" at the beginning of their file names now. In addition to the default long span, I plan to include a shorter span for each orientation in my next release, so that the connected poles will be close enough together to transmit power. In addition to facilitating power transmission, this will make the power lines more flexible, so that they can adapt to differently-sized road grids.
Excellent &apls
And many photos I found:
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:thumbsup:
A long time ago in a boring mood. I found some sites about power pylons, could be useful:
http://www.gorge.org/pylons/photos001.shtml (http://www.gorge.org/pylons/photos001.shtml)
http://www.magnificentviews.tk/ (http://www.magnificentviews.tk/)
There's even one photo with my railway gantry on it :D :
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Quote from: metarvo on February 01, 2009, 08:05:41 AM
I do have a question for the SC4D members. What can I do to get these into the Power menu? Previously, I placed my power poles in the Park category in PIM, and I based my power pole on the 1x1 Maxis Open Grass Area lot (pz1x1_grass) in LE. I really want the poles to be in the Power menu. First of all, it makes sense, and has been suggested to me before. Second of all (and perhaps even more seriously ::)) my park menu is already overcrowded, and I'm sure almost everyone else's is, too. I don't want these poles to produce power, though. I know it may be a dumb question, but I want this to be the best project it can be.
I answered your question in your Simtrop support thread,...hope that helps.
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Sciurus: Those are some good looking pylons. :) It looks like that top one has eighteen wires connected to it, instead of the six or twelve that I usually see, so it must be a very important line.
ehbk2006: That's a nice photo there! I already knew about the first site, and have visited it before, and it is very good. :) I didn't know about the second one, though, so I will have to check it out sometime.
north country dude: Thanks for the help, ncd. :thumbsup: It was just what I needed, and I have added LEProp to my growing list of SC4 utilities. This project is still alive, despite my recent inactivity in this topic, and I have two pics to prove it.
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Yes, that's right. My poles are in the Power menu now, where they should have been from the start. These are the new menu icons I will be using. I originally thought about using RL pictures, but decided against it, since most of them weren't legible enough when shrank down to the 44x44 standard size for menu icons. So, the pictures will be taken in-game against a snow backdrop. The picture itself shows whether or not the pole is wired and the type of pole, which has been named Metal 00 for our purposes here. The arrow through the pole's picture indicates its direction. The bar on the bottom of each icon conveys information about the pole. The number on the left indicates the wire span in meters. If "0" is displayed, then the pole is unwired. The number on the right indicates the number of wires carried by the pole (or the number of isolators in the case of the unwired poles), which is 12 for all poles shown.
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Here is a teaser pic of my latest addition to the set. I'm trying to work carefully this time, as I feel that the first set was rushed through development.
Hey Metarvo nice Icons there for your powerpoles!!! BTW neat new sig pic ;)
Pat: Thanks for the compliment about the icons. I'm glad you like the sig. ;)
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I know, this is not much, but it's just a pic to show that this is not dead, even though I have other things going atm. Even so, I am still working on this project, and plan to have more done soon. The wires on the left are offset stand-alone wires (with no poles), useful for situations where a wire connection should be made but a pole can't be placed, like turns and neighbor connections. The pole on the right is the new ortho-fractional turn piece. The 45-degree turns will be next.
Metarvo looking good and I cant wait to see the new turns next!!
Those are very good pylons, but does it really guide electricity?
Guillaume :thumbsup:
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Pat: Thanks for the compliment. I am still working on the poles, although I am tied up with some other SC4 related projects atm ;). In addition, one thing leads to another in the BAT, at least for me, so I have found myself working on yet another new addition to the set, as seen below.
Guillaume (Sciurus): I glad you like the pylons. Actually, the answer to the question is yes and no. Due to a lack of proper planning on my part, I arbitrarily selected 10 tiles (160 m) as the wire span for my previous set, so the old pylons have been described as eyecandy. However, I am trying to upgrade to "functional eyecandy" by adding at least one more wire span to the set, allowing the pylons to be built close enough together so that power actually does flow between them.
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One problem that I see with both my power lines and the Maxis defaults is the fact that just anyone can get electricity from them. It just doesn't seem right to me at all that the average consumer can get 120 V or any other common household voltage directly from the high tension lines. For one thing, I'm convinced that the Sims in the typical SC4 city are stealing electricity from the high voltage lines, because the Mayor has to fund the power plants and lines, and you never hear of a Sim paying an electric bill. $%Grinno$% There's not much, if anything, that can be done about this. However, I am working on a way to build a power grid in which the power is stepped down to the levels that consumers use. I realize I am not the first to make substations, but I think it is time for me to try to make some. This picture displays a teaser:
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Of course, a substation is made up of more than one small segment, so the rest will come later.
I am deeply looking forward to this complete set when you finish it. I have your first in-complete set and it looks great in game (sadly tore it down when I saw this set in development). But this will be great for making a city to city to city regional power line set up. Cannot wait the substation into ground pieces are looking good keep up the good work.
SimNation: I have made some more progress, as will be seen in the progress teaser shots I have posted. I'm glad you like the first set. :)
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I'm working on the new turns, Pat. This is the unwired 45-degree turn, still unrendered.
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The metal power line set won't be the only one to be overhauled. I am redoing the wood power line set as well. See if you can figure out what's different just from the preview. ;)
metarvo that is looking real great there!!! :thumbsup:
hafta agree with pat on that one!! Looking good!
Bud
These are much more realistic then the red and white ones. :)
btw why do you like powerlines so much?
ahhhh.... electrical goodness ()stsfd()
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Everyone: Thanks for the compliments. They really do mean so much to me. :)
LE0: Well, it's sort of a hobby of mine, much like SC4 is. For some reason, I have always had an interest in the "backstage" of RL, which includes power lines. Since SC4 includes the concept of electric power, the two seem to be a perfect fit. However, vanilla SC4/RH has a limited power distribution system when compared to RL. That's where I come in. ;)
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Here's the first substation that I have completed. I just wanted to throw something together to transition the metal power line to the wood power line in a manner that made sense, and this does, at least to me. Only the ortho is completed for now, but I try to always make diagonal and fractional angle versions for everything that I make if it's possible and practical, so they are definitely planned. ;)
Wow; beautiful substation there, Metarvo! It's always nice to interact with other utility pole geeks, such as myself. Here's something I put together before I embarked on my ploppable utility poles project: Don's Utility Pole Pages [linkie] (http://home.earthlink.net/~homefryes/utility_poles/utility_poles.htm) &smrt You've done a fine job on tying the wooden poles to the metal towers with this substation in between.
-- Don
Your power lins look great :thumbsup:
Is it possiblke a SAM for powerlines where drag powerlines off of starter pieces?
Don (homefryes): Thanks for the compliment. As for the interaction, I must say "My sentiments exactly." :)
LE0: Thanks for the kind words. Unfortunately, the answer to your question seems to be no. Even though the in-game powerlines are considered a transit network, their behavior is quite different from that of streets or roads. A while back, a similar effect was created [linkie] (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2105.msg207462#msg207462) through a combination of the removal of the Maxis models and the construction of plopped power poles next to the wires, but this is still not quite as easy as dragging power lines, and the 4-wire limitation is still there. AFAIK, SAM for powerlines is impossible, at least for now.
omg WOW Metarvo that is a wicked electrifying substation!!!
Even though they are extremely busy in another region, my utility workers are still testing new concepts. What could they be doing with this one?
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Yes, this project is very much alive, even if it has been a little quiet lately. RL has picked up just a little within the past month, but I am still working on this, slowly but surely.
EDIT:
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Here's an in-game pic of the pole that was being developed above, in addition to another new pole and a variation on an old one. One of the new poles is actually a transition from my metal lines to the default Maxis lines.
Its been quiet here, but I really love the concept. &apls
One of my pet hates of the game was needing multiple power stations per city, and I hear that some fixing has been done to up the output of the maxis plants, but to get to the point are neighbour connections ever going to be possible with this?
When I was pondering this I though of another idea, did anyone ever think to take the maxis lines, and make them invisible as to permit these types of mod to be placed in them, but allow the easy passage of electric current. I mean they would be totally gone (but perhaps with something small left so you cant forget where you put them) wires and all.
I think the problem with the Maxis lines is we can't find them in the files. The poles are replaceable and/or removable, but the wires elude us and are assumed to be in the EXE.
Metarvo,
This is really a great development. Looking very good, although in my opinion the large poles are a bit "thick". Less metal in the upper part of the construction would be nice.
Like so many I always detested the Maxis powerlines. Especially because they disappear where there is a lot underneath... I'd like them to stay.
And there are some powerline projects already, but if I want to use them I always have the problems of corners, substaions and edges of maps... They are not very versatile. More or less I am forced to build my cities (or at least areas) around the poles.
If there are diagonals and substations It's really great!
I've been busy with a combination of other SC4-related projects and RL, so I haven't had as much time for BATting and I have mainly BATted power lines on an as-needed basis for the last month or so. However, I am still working on this project, and I have made some modifications that I think you all will like.
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This is a zoom 4 pic of three variations of the same pole, with no wires. Pole A is my working model I have already shown here and it is the current standard for my project. Pole B is the same pole with many of the metal struts removed. Pole C is Pole B, scaled upwards 33% to minimize the BAT-squash that others have noticed.
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This is a zoom 5 pic of the same three poles.
Of course, I might have to redo my other poles as well, but it will be worth it if it is an improvement. Any suggestions are still appreciated as always. :)
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joelyboy911: Thank you very much, I'm glad you like them. Unfortunately, the only way truly functional neighbor connections could be made with these power lines is if they were made draggable, replacing the in-game defaults. However, as Diggis noted, the wires would get in the way.
Diggis: Sad, but true. Oh, how I wish the wires could be modded in the same way as roads and bridges. The 4-wire limitation is about my least favorite thing about the Maxis defaults. Thanks for the reply. :)
FrankU: Thanks for the kind words. :) I went ahead and removed some metal from one of my poles just to see what it would look like. As for the diagonals and substations, they are definitely going to be a part of the finished product.
Metarvo, as you probably guessed already, I like the model C the best.
The poles in my country look the way you see in this picture.
As you will notice the top of the pole and the arms are much slimmer than in your model. They end in a very short beam, while your pole has quite long horizontal beams. I think the poles would be more beautiful if you could make them thinner like on the picture. A lot of work, I suppose....
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Very good work so far.
I'd hate to bump this up, but I like the progress on this. I like these power poles. Keep up the good work
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FrankU: I have made some modifications to the pole, especially to the supporting arms, that should make it thinner. :)
RebaLynnTS: Thank you for the compliment. :)
Monorail Master: I'm glad you like the poles. :)
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It's been a while since I've shown any progress, mainly due to RL, but I have resumed work on this project yet again. My tendency to revise my BATs has led to a variation of Model C from the last Side By Side Comparison. There were three things that bothered me about my latest model, and all of them were inherent design issues that were carried over from my very first BAT. From what I have observed, scale is one of the primary concerns of many BATters. I had noticed that the poles seemed too tall compared to houses and other buildings after I stretched them to correct the BAT squash issue. Furthermore, the base of the poles had a large footprint in which a house could be enclosed if so desired. I knew something was wrong, so I created a smaller version of the poles. The smaller model is a complete rebuild, placed near a house and Model C for comparison. Since I was rebuilding it anyway, I also decided to make the supporting arms pointed based on careful observation of RL pictures. Here is a side view:
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What do you think? Have I made them too small? Any comments will be appreciated. ;)
Metarvo,
Excellent to see that you were able to escape from RL for a little bit to continue working on your creations. I think the new poles look AWESOME! Some of the more experienced batters might be able to address the scale issue better but I think they look like a great size.
Keep up the great work and one of these days, I will have a region that will display them :D
moin metarvo,
i think the size is fine, too. ... but i'm concerned about the base, seems to me it's a bit slim if you look from the side. (does that make sense?)
anyway, apart from that is a decent looking pole you got there! ;D
b_schlurf
Hello Metarvo,
I'm happy to see that you didn't give up on it. The result looks very good. &apls
The scale is really a bother in this game... The large pole indeed looks very large. The small one seems a bit small. The thing is: it differs with what you compare the poles. I have seen poles here in the Netherlands that are large enough to stand over a house. On the other hand: the pole looks too large in comparison with a high rise building.
On the third hand: if I place a row of poles next to a raised highway the highway is too high and the poles are too low.
The base of the problem is probably that 16 meters in game is not always 16 meters in real life.
In real life we have rowhouses that are about 5,5 meters wide: so that would mean about three on one tile. There is not even one BAT with houses that small (Haarlemmergold made some small BATs but never more that two on a tile). So the single and row houses are too large. If then you measure the heigth of a high rise building you will see that it is way too small. In a certain way the scale of the buildings is compressed.
So every size is a compromise. I'd say: your pole looks cool, maybe it should be a bit taller, so that the wires will not interfere too quick with a higher industrial building.
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projectadam: Thanks for the compliment! :) I'm still trying to figure the scale out. I have heard of poles like these being 120 feet (36.576 m) tall, but it seems as though that still came out too short in the BAT.
beutelschlurf: Thanks for the kind words! :) Indeed, the base is one of my big problems. At first, I tried making the length of the side equal to the width of the front, but that made the pole seem too thick. It seems like I have been gradually making the base thinner with every rebuild. I wouldn't want these to blow over if a strong wind came through, so I'm trying to decide what would be the best size for the base.
FrankU: I'm glad you like it. :) I agree that the smallest pole seems too small. I've now built a pole that's 125% of the small pole I showed earlier.
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Once again, I've updated the base model pole. I know I've redone it many times, but I want to get it right before I make any more additions to the set, as all of them will be based on the base model. The pole on the left is Model C from earlier. The pole in the center is 25% larger, and it is the new one. The smaller pole from the last update is on the right.
Great to see this project has not been lost to time. I feared that real life stuff would mess up your work on doing this project seeing has how it is very needed. Nice updates and good to see you return.
Personally, I think the smallest one works quite well.
I personally like the medium one for a general pole, but I've seen examples of both other scales (with the largest being principally on long distance, really high voltage paths) here and there. If the weather cools down a bit this weekend, I may take a bike ride and the path has several points, and styles, of high-tension lines. If you'd like, I'll see if I can get some reference pics.
-Matt
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SimNation: I'm glad that you like my work. :)
SimGoober: The smallest pole is the one that is most true to the average RL measurement for my area (approx. 120 ft. or 36.576 m), so it is the pole that I really want to use. Thanks for the input. :)
Matt (threestooges): Thanks for the comment. It's interesting that you mention the bike path. In my area, the clearing under suburban power lines is often used for bike paths, parks and parking lots, although true RCI buildings usually are not permitted to be built under them, and especially not large buildings. I would appreciate the pics very much, Matt, if it's not too much trouble. :)
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This pole's base is 15 m taller than the small pole, but the upper section is the same. Of course, as I stated above, I usually don't see them crossing over RCI buildings in my area. From my experience, these power lines are usually found in rural and suburban areas and I've never seen one going over a skyscraper or large factory of any type. Even so, this latest model has been designed so that it can pass over many medium sized Maxis RCI buildings. It's possible that I may make both the smaller set and the medium one, but this is sort of a compromise between the two. IRL the 36.576 m is a ballpark average, and the individual poles do vary in height when crossing elevated highways, hilly areas, and water.
I have one question. Why does the lower part of the pole show through the highway?
It is true that high tension lines usually do not cross high buildings. In that respect my remark was not too smart.
On the other hand: they do cross raised highway and raised rail, so it would be good to see that there is room enough for traffic to pass under the lines. Or that one of these beautiful CP trees does not mess with the lines.
Anyway: I like the medium pole a lot. Also it is indeed true that there are a lot of different styles and sizes of lines, but please do not try to make BATs for all styles. It will take you all your life! Please choose one style and use that.
There are some other powerlines on the STEX, so there is possibility to combine them.
Great work! &apls
uhm, I feel a bit stupid, but I can't see the pictures (I'm using Firefox)
I had the very same problem with my first Dutch Signage Set. You see the pole through the El-MHW, because the LOD is in fact in front and on top of the El-MHW, and so your pole is texures over the Highway. Try to imagine that you whole model is no more that a bounding box. Then you see that the top and the right are in front of the Highway.
I suggest you should make LODs consisting out of two models (one for the pole, and one for the wires). That should work.
Best,
Maarten
Metarvo! I LOVE the new design. I just knew that something needed adjusting with the arms, and now I realize it was the boxiness. The pointy ends are the PERFECT answer to that dilemma. Now, a couple of suggestions, if I may. I think, as someone else mentioned, your base is a little small from the side view. I would suggest that your "feet" should form a square, such that they are the same distance apart left-to-right as front-to-back. Another suggestion I have is that perhaps the top, instead of the big open "V", should have stringers running from the left side to the right side. IMO it would be better from an engineering perspective (not that I'm an engineer, I'm just sayin'). Otherwise, as I said, I think you've really made some fantastic improvements!
&apls
-- Don
Wow. Your models are very impressive and look quite realisitc. I've went out of my way to minimize the power lines in game but models that look this good would make me rethink that. Great work! &apls
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FrankU: It's no problem. :) Of course, I tend to avoid planting trees under power lines, because IRL trees and power lines don't mix too well, leading to fires and power outages. As for other custom power line sets, I do use those as well. After all, IRL there are many electric companies, each with different power pole designs. Thanks for the comment. :)
WC_EEND: Thanks for stopping by. I use Firefox, too, and I see the pictures just fine. I have noticed that some pictures are occasionally invisible, but usually they're all there. Oh, and by the way, here's an old memory from way back when: %ban%. $%Grinno$%
Maarten (mrtnrln): Thanks for the suggestion! I'll be sure to try that when I resume work on my poles. :)
Don (homefryes): I agree, it does look much better. IRL, most of the poles I see used for straight segments are rectangular rather than square, although perfectly square bases are used for the turning poles. I might try square bases just to see what they look like, though. The "V" shape is a dominant feature of this design, and changing it would essentially mean starting over from the beginning, but I do have future plans for a set that I believe is similar to the one you described. Thanks for your suggestions! :)
djvandrake: Thank you for the compliment! :) Personally, I've never really liked the Maxis red and white poles that much, and the 4-wire limitation makes them even worse IMHO.
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It's not a power line? :o This is just an in-progress shot of my latest BAT, and it's nowhere near finished, but I just wanted to show that I'm still BATting. Does anyone have a guess at what it will be when it's finished? RL has given me a hard time lately, but I feel that it will slow down a little in the coming weeks, which means I get to BAT, and I plan to resume progress on my power line set.
Don't have a clue what it is, but I'm curious. ;)
Now you've decided to create something other than power lines. I do not know what I know, but keep an eye on your work
Im betting it has to do with Industry IE Cement or maybe even farming?
looks like a piece of some sort of power plant, nice job on it by the way
PS: as a "gift" from "back then": %ban% ;D
To make a long story short, I've had some big computer problems :bomb:, and I lost pretty much all of my plugins and BATs from May of last year on >:(, with the exception of some more recent ones that I had backed up. In addition, I lost all of my SC4 utilities, such as the LE and BAT, so I've had to re-download those, and I still don't have everything back together.
WC_EEND was right about the mysterious building. It was going to be part of a power plant. Unfortunately, it has been lost, along with my power line models from last year. I've had to debate about restarting this project, but I've decided that I must continue in that true SC4 spirit.
The BAT was one of the first things I got back. Without further delay, I'm presenting the rebirth of the P3 (Power Pole Project). Here is the first development pic:
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The bottom row includes the straight, 18.4-degree turn, and 45 degree turn poles. The top row includes the 71.6-degree turn and 90-degree turn poles. This was just a quick proof-of-concept pic to show that I'm back up and running, so I haven't added the isolators or concrete supports yet.
I'm back, and I'm ready for action. ;D
Cool transformers! Glad to hear you're back up and running :thumbsup:!
-Jordan :thumbsup:
Metravo sry you had problems with your comp and good to see you got BAT back and looking great with a fresh start on P3!!!
Jordan (canyonjumper): Thank you for the compliment. :)
Pat: Thank you for the kind words. :) I'm glad to be back to doing something I really enjoy.
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Phase I of P3 is now 18% complete, which is a percentage obtained by the status of completion on each individual pole that will be included in the first set. To speed up completion, I plan to concentrate on only one set this time, rather than trying to build two at the same time as I did before.
Here is a pic of the wired versions of the orthogonal poles, complete with buildings to provide a sense of scale.
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Hi Metarvo,
I was wondering where you had gone.... Now I know. You probably have bougt an external backup disk by now?
Such bad luck!
But the new poles look good. The wires though look like thick cables. I guess you put a group of narrow wires together, like in real life, but the effect is that of a wide thick blurry cable. At least on the picture you show here. I sound harsh, maybe. I don't mean it that way, but I hope you can get it better...
The looks in the game are more important than realistic BATing.
I wish you a lot of better luck in the future!
these power poles (whatever their proper name is) look fantastic. :thumbsup:
Can you/are you going to make it so that these carry greater volumes of power than standard ones?
I agree with franku regarding the wires though...
Sorry to hear about your computer trouble. That is really something that you don't want to wish on anyone, and glad to see you back at work on your project.
The models look really excellent, but but I do agree with what FrankU and thingfishs have already said about the lines. Also, the bases need a darker texture; right now they appear as white dots.
They also look a bit over-scaled in relation to the buildings--they really dwarf the small factory, for example--but I assume high-tension lines are built in various sizes; they just look a bit big for a default set.
FrankU: Thanks for the concern. :) Actually, I have a backup disk. The problem is that I thought I had backed up everything, but it turns out that all I had was an out-of-date backup and a few of my newer files, so about four months of data disappeared. I have redesigned the wires, and I have some pics below.
thingfishs: Thank you for the compliment. :) There is no one single name for these poles. I think it's a regional thing. In some places, they're called power poles, and in others, they're called utility poles, transmission towers, or perhaps pylons.
In SC4, power is power. This is a limitation of the game. There is no differentiation in SC4 between transmission, subtransmission, or distribution lines, and there are no varying voltages. Not only do the game default power lines transmit power, but buildings transmit it as well. These are not replacements for the Maxis power lines, but they are non-producing power buildings that appear in the Power menu. I have redone the wires, as seen below.
gottago: Thanks for the kind words. :) I have redesigned the wires as well as the bases. As for the scale issue, that is one the hardest parts of BATting IMHO. These are supposed to come out to about 120 ft (36.576 m), per the RL normals for this type of pole. To be honest, they don't seem to be very different in height from the Maxis poles when I compare the two. 120 ft is just a ballpark height, though, since some are only 100 ft. (30.48 m) tall. I will look at it and see what I can do.
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Here are the latest development pics, with my power lines and the Maxis defaults side by side for comparison.
Zoom 5:
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Zoom 4:
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At first, I had 12 wires on this pole, comprising 6 2-wire couplets. I have converted the pole to a 6-wire pole, and I have made the wires themselves thinner (0.001 in the BAT). I note that I'm planning to include wireless versions of the poles as well.
Looks awesome! I like yours a lot better as the wires don't stick out so much visually. That and the towers are much more realisitc and interesting. &apls
djvandrake: Thanks for the compliment! :) The Maxis defaults have always seemed rather limiting to me.
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At the time of this post, completion on this portion of the set is 21%, now that the poles and wires have been revised.
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Here are all four rotations of the basic pole that will be included. For now, I am planning to include orthogonal, diagonal, 18.4 degree fractional, and -18.4 degree fractional rotations. These latter two were chosen to match the FAR.
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Here is a side view.
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Here is the Power Data View. I carefully planned the wire spans so that the poles would be spaced as far apart as possible while still being close enough to transmit power. All of the poles are on 1x1 lots, with offset fractional poles being included to bring the fractional pole wire spans closer to the orthogonal pole wire spans.
Once all of the adjustments on these poles are complete, the next step will be to give them transparent bases and menu icons. I also feel that now is a good time to bring up some cost-related details. What would be a good plop cost, maintenance cost, and bulldoze cost? I have chosen §100 to plop, §5/month for maintenance, and §100 to bulldoze. I admit that I usually play with the "moolah" cheat, but I realize that there may be some players who play with a real budget.
Regarding the power, I realised as I lay in bed last night what a silly thing I'd said, ah well (here's probably another hair brained idea: could they generate an amount of power as well to separate them from regular ones?)
As for the scale thing personally I think they look fine. I'm still confused about how to resolve scale too. They say for some things scale it up 33% to make it realistic (sims are 4m tall after all!) yet some things are quite the opposite (when I made an AFL football ground at the RL scale, it was way too big for in game, and that's without scaling it up ()what()).
Will you give them transparent bases?
Thingfishs, I have thought about making my power lines generate power, but I have decided against it on the principle that the lines are only meant to carry power. Of course, the Maxis power system in SC4 is overly simplified and arguably broken, since Sims can get their electricity directly from the in-game high voltage lines. The city gets no revenues from electric bills, but it ends up paying for power system maintenance every month. Then again, it's true that you don't see power plants every 4 km apart in RL, so cities without power plants might benefit if these lines did generate their own power. I do plan to make substations that generate power.
Since SC4 doesn't seem to use any one system of scale, I have decided to go with upscaling by 33% because it seems to be the normal that I see most frequently. I'm always open to suggestions, though. I have given the power poles transparent bases, as seen in the pics below. Thank you for your valuable input. :)
In addition to the straight segment poles seen previously, I plan for the completed set to include:
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18.4-degree turns,
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45-degree turns,
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71.6-degree turns,
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90-degree turns,
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and end poles, for termination at a substation or power plant. They can also be used for a transition to underground power lines.
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This is an overview of a short power line constructed with the new turn poles.
Completion is now at 40%. I have not made a lot for every rotation, and I still have to create menu icons. As always, I'm open for any comments.
These look excellent. Far more realistic than what's currently in game!
These are looking great, metarvo!
-Jordan :thumbsup:
I agree, these are beautiful.
I think it was worth the struggle. &apls &apls
Love how far this has come so far. I hope this is not too much to ask but any chance you going to make power transformers that can connect to these? Its always the one thing missing from custom ploppable power line sets are transformers for them to connect to.
Nice bating Metarvo. They look so real and so clear on my computer. Are those textures HD? :o
If so, it is sweet and if not, still looks good! &apls
Wow, great jobs. And, wow, nice, crisp textures! :o
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Battlecat: Thanks for the compliment. :) I don't know where Maxis got their powerlines from, but I've never seen any quite like them.
Jordan (canyonjumper): Thank you for the compliment. :)
FrankU: I'm glad you like them. :)
SimNation: Thanks for the kind words. :) Yes, I do plan to include transformers in the set.
Altanore: Thank you for the compliment. :) Actually, these poles are not HD. The concrete bases have a texture that I found on a free texture site, and the pole structures, isolators, and wires just use plain GMax colors.
DCMetro2834: Thanks for the compliment. :)
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I have started on the menu icons. Some of them are shown in this pic, which also includes a new feature. Each pole rotation will have at least two wire spans. For the orthogonal poles shown here, the wire spans will be 64m (4 tiles) and 80m (5 tiles). The different wire spans are good for road crossings, as a pole and a road can't occupy the same tile. The diagonal and fractional poles will also have alternate wire spans.
Very nice menus icons, easy to read! :)
ooo I like the icons there Metarvo and the poles too!!!
Looking great, Metarvo! The icons are looking very nice!
-Jordan :thumbsup:
WOW!!! these power lines are looking great. Great Job on them. &apls
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DCMetro2834: Thank you for the compliment. :) I want the icons to convey useful information.
Pat: Thanks for the kind words. :) Anything that makes the poles easier to place goes a long way, IMHO.
Jordan (canyonjumper): Thanks for the compliment. :) Since there will probably be a lot of poles in this set, I want the menu navigation to be as painless as possible.
Aaron Graham: Thank you for the kind words. I've redone this set many times, and I'm finally starting to be satisfied with it.
Now, here's the problem. When I render the wires, particularly the fractional angled ones, I get this:
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Notice that the wires appear broken on one side. I suspect this is a problem with the model, rather than the BAT tool itself, because it happens consistently with this model and other fractional angled ones. At first, I thought that the wires were too dark, but the problem persisted when I changed the color to white just to test my hypothesis. Does anyone know why this might be happening? I've searched through the BAT threads, and I haven't found a solution yet, but maybe I'm not looking hard enough.
By the way, the wires are set to have 4 sides with a thickness of 0.01. The default color is RGB (96,96,96).
This is deff. really great! There can never be to many power lines. Your doing a truly good job! What you should try to do if your up to it is do electric transmission lines on top of railroad lines. On the east coaster around PA, they have a lot of them.
Ideas: http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.thebluecomet.com/pcBristol.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.thebluecomet.com/pctrenphil.html&usg=__advo5ldgLdok9e8XKXMHP2UMR0U=&h=511&w=800&sz=63&hl=en&start=16&sig2=dZOK3aVrqz3RXOkG0K80Nw&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=PMmXdTDJF3uNDM:&tbnh=91&tbnw=143&prev=/images%3Fq%3DBristol%2BPA%2Brailroad%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1&ei=iCS6S-TgCIP88AbgqbWVCQ (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.thebluecomet.com/pcBristol.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.thebluecomet.com/pctrenphil.html&usg=__advo5ldgLdok9e8XKXMHP2UMR0U=&h=511&w=800&sz=63&hl=en&start=16&sig2=dZOK3aVrqz3RXOkG0K80Nw&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=PMmXdTDJF3uNDM:&tbnh=91&tbnw=143&prev=/images%3Fq%3DBristol%2BPA%2Brailroad%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1&ei=iCS6S-TgCIP88AbgqbWVCQ)
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.thebluecomet.com/pcBristol.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.thebluecomet.com/pctrenphil.html&usg=__advo5ldgLdok9e8XKXMHP2UMR0U=&h=511&w=800&sz=63&hl=en&start=16&sig2=dZOK3aVrqz3RXOkG0K80Nw&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=PMmXdTDJF3uNDM:&tbnh=91&tbnw=143&prev=/images%3Fq%3DBristol%2BPA%2Brailroad%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1&ei=iCS6S-TgCIP88AbgqbWVCQ (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.thebluecomet.com/pcBristol.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.thebluecomet.com/pctrenphil.html&usg=__advo5ldgLdok9e8XKXMHP2UMR0U=&h=511&w=800&sz=63&hl=en&start=16&sig2=dZOK3aVrqz3RXOkG0K80Nw&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=PMmXdTDJF3uNDM:&tbnh=91&tbnw=143&prev=/images%3Fq%3DBristol%2BPA%2Brailroad%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1&ei=iCS6S-TgCIP88AbgqbWVCQ)
Hey, really nice Poles :)
But, what about a Mod which replaces the original Maxis poles with yours?
I don't know, but I think Pegasus made a Mod like that, maybe it would be better than putting them on Lots as you do it.
Yes, it would be a little bit more work, but the result would be awesome.
Plokoon111: Thanks for the compliment! :) I guess I'm not too familiar with these kinds of power lines. I might take a closer look at them sometime, though.
Fluggi: Thanks for the kind words. :) I've tried and failed at an experiment with draggable power lines, but I do plan to revisit it when the time is right. The two main problems would be the base and the wires, which are most likely coded in the .exe and therefore cannot be changed.
Since I have returned to playing SC4, I have consequently begun to develop that desire to BAT. Here's a preview of a transformer I'm working on:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg8.imageshack.us%2Fimg8%2F7939%2Fp3pic014.jpg&hash=f3dd0bbfb2e578fb208640294b245b3dae87ecfe)
I don't have too much to show right now, but I'm planning to get back on this very soon.
EDIT: I've officially restarted the project with PIM-X, which is helping me to get the work done much faster. To my surprise and absolute delight, the New Properties XML introduced a Power Eye Candy category, which I suppose best suits the power poles I plan to insert into the game.
EDIT 2: I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. Finally, I may be able to complete the first phase of this project. A HDD crash a few months ago back caused me to lose my BATs (again!), so I rebuilt each and every one of them from scratch. They might not be exactly the same, but they're based on the previous models. Here are three more development pics.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg31.imageshack.us%2Fimg31%2F1831%2Fp3pic015.jpg&hash=577a002515ed1e0cce6afb632442cb2fe3541737)
Here is a straight segment, 18.4-degree turn, and a 45-degree turn. Buildings and Maxis power lines are included for scale representation.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg156.imageshack.us%2Fimg156%2F6148%2Fp3pic016.jpg&hash=2767cb401ac838c19bcf76ad2cd1c903bef6622c)
Here are the 71.6-degree and 90-degree turns. These are based on RL power lines, so the 45-degree and 90-degree turns are built on single-circuit pole pairs rather than double-circuit poles. This means that these turns will take up more space, but these power lines are normally built with right-of-way areas anyway.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg243.imageshack.us%2Fimg243%2F7701%2Fp3pic017.jpg&hash=efb4fbeb84a33aa13566d485017fa72f17366c46)
15m slope pieces will also be included for the orthogonal, diagonal, and 18.4 fractional straight segments. 15m is the only slope included at this time, and I chose it because it can be considered a default slope in SC4. Dead-end structures are also included to mark the beginning or end of a line. Unfortunately, the transformers are not ready yet and will be included later.
After I finish tying up some loose ends, the first phase will be completed.
EDIT 3:
It's released! [off-site linkie] (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=24044)
EDIT 4:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg441.imageshack.us%2Fimg441%2F9830%2Fp3pic019.jpg&hash=1fb04a1fff59e1a1e8c31a177e304812874f0393)
P3 Phase II will include a set of wood power poles. For the most part, Phase II will mirror Phase I as far as wirespan lengths, angles, and turns are concerned. Just as I completely overhauled Phase I's metal poles prior to its release, I am going to redo the wood ones as well. The new ones will be much smaller to resemble RL measurements. A house and a metal power line have been included for scale reference, and I have also turned the grid on. As illustrated in this picture, the two types of lines are often built right next to each other, which is analogous to a Road being widened to an Avenue (or probably a MAVE-6) in SC4. When more electricity is needed, the electric companies attempt to locate new lines where they will least interfere with land use. If the land's already being used for a power line right-of-way, it makes a prime target for the construction of a new line.
Nice to see you continue working on them.
But I think you misunderstood me:
I now that the Wires are located in the .exe, but the Poles aren't. Pegasus and fukuda used this for a mod which replaces the red-white Maxis poles by silver ones.
Here (click me) (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=21686) is the one made by Pegasus, the Screenshots taken in this post are made with this mod.
And here (click) (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=16152) is one I just found when I searched for Pegasus' mod, it is made by fukuda.
I think I will download it now and use it instead of Pegasus' mod ;D
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As you can see, they are draggable, they just replaced the Maxis poles. The wires are exactly the same as without the mod.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ld-host.de%2Fuploads%2Fimages%2F524db1a7869a5d99202b32564bc1f178.jpg&hash=6164799b4e0d7ed3912fd573fff865733a453b7d)
Here you can see that Pegasus forgot one diagonal end pole.
So maybe you could look how they did this and copy the method :)
Looks really good! So you plop the poles and power lines?
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Fluggi: Well, I don't really have a firm grasp on the creation of draggable power lines yet. To my understanding, Pegasus edited the Maxis pole to remove the red stripes. Mine are entirely different models, so I don't know if that method would work for me. I remember reading that Fukuda included a custom override of some sort with the set to replace the Maxis power poles with custom models. While this might work for me, I would have two choices. First, I could simply use Fukuda's override. However, it is not my file, and therefore I couldn't get away with including it in any release. Second, I could try to build my own override, but I really don't know how to do that yet.
Even if I could somehow replace the Maxis poles, though, there would still be the issue that my poles as they are simply wouldn't match up with the wires or the bases, which aren't going anywhere it seems. &Thk/( There would still be the issue that the Maxis power lines have four wires, instead of the six that mine have. The poles would have to be redone to work, which would go outside the scope of this project. Still, I might have a go at it if I knew that I could actually get these poles into the game as replacements for the Maxis draggables. I appreciate the input. :)
Highrise99: Thanks for the compliment! :) Yes, you plop the poles just like parks or any other plopped building. Most of the poles come with overhanging wires. Instructions are provided in the in-game descriptions to assist with connecting the wires, and the preview that appears as you are preparing to build them may help as well. The wires overhang and don't add onto the size of the lot (typically 1x1 for Phase I's metal poles but larger for ending poles and some turning poles), which allows
roads, rails, and other networks to run under the wires, while saving valuable building space. Really, anything can be built underneath the wires, but you probably wouldn't want anything too tall under them. ;) Oh, and there are unwired poles, too, which can be used to fill in gaps between wired poles or as a set in its own right for those who don't want to deal with the wires, which do not conform to slopes. The exceptions to this limitation are the 15m slope pieces that are designed to be used exclusively on 15m slopes.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg651.imageshack.us%2Fimg651%2F3630%2Fp3pic020.jpg&hash=16018891f0f9573952a8e7157e587eb814043e8a)
P3 Phase II is designed to accomplish two goals. It will incorporate substations with transformers into the project, and it will introduce smaller wood 138 kV power lines. Here is a substation that transitions one of Phase I's 345 kV metal lines to a group of Phase II's 138 kV lines.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg337.imageshack.us%2Fimg337%2F413%2Fp3pic021.jpg&hash=82035a162369a94bace5e069448058c67adcb07e)
Here is a Zoom 5 view from a different angle. In compliance with my current BAT policy, I will be making the substations available in each of the four standard angles: 0° orthogonal, 45° diagonal, 18.435° fractional, and -18.435° fractional. I also will look at making substations that transition the Maxis power lines to each other as well as to my custom power lines.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg156.imageshack.us%2Fimg156%2F8995%2Fp3pic022.jpg&hash=47ab61eac22a92219269fe6a16591590ca8c46c5)
Here are the 18.435° and 45° turning poles for the new wood set.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg571.imageshack.us%2Fimg571%2F3664%2Fp3pic023.jpg&hash=53c5d4ff4b98cd784fc1c267b3c1fd60074077f7)
Here is the 71.565° turning pole.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg8.imageshack.us%2Fimg8%2F9827%2Fp3pic024.jpg&hash=10a59b87cc2ebc01ebc3af01222272c4c2a5f37a)
Here is the 90° turning pole.
It will probably be some time before I have everything ready, especially with some RL on the horizon, but as always, I appreciate your comments. ;)
I really like the yellow tubes surrounding the poles' retaining cables. They add a lot to the overall sharpness of your power lines. :thumbsup:
Very nice progress Metarvo, good work on these items &apls &apls
:o wow
Will 138kV power line support climb slope?
::) And it will have the Converter with maxis pole in future or not?
Very impressive work Metarvo. :thumbsup:
The Substations look fantastic! I have been hoping for so long that someone would make ones in which they connected to the actual powerlines.Outside a japanese one (which has no diagonal poles) anyway.Looking great cannot wait to see how the rest comes out.
Like the style of pylons - i don't BAT myself at the moment as i am utterly overwhelmed by the BAT!! Have you thought of perhaps having lines linking lamposts as they often do in many parts of the US? Will try and find a pic of these first. Keep up the work
Looking great metarvo! This will be a must have when its released ;D
-Jordan :thumbsup:
ah man this is fantastic work!
really what a great job! ;D
i'm a pylon enthusiast myself! i'm totally amazed by the fact you made 'cornerpylons' this is accually the first time i see such detail in a game!
i would really wanna give it a try myself!
the first time you tryed it was it hard? or is it fairly easy to try?
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TiFlo: Thanks for the compliment! :) The yellow tubes are quite common on distribution lines in my area, but some smaller transmission lines use them as well, particularly on turns.
Girafe: Well, thank you! :)
louistsw: Yes, the wood set will include 15m slope pieces that function similarly to the ones in the metal set. As for the Maxis transition, I've been playing around trying to get it right, but it's hard to get a BAT to line up with the Maxis wires, so it will probably be a while. I appreciate the comment. :)
djvandrake: Thanks for the kind words! :)
SimNation: Maxis included power plants and power lines, but they left out the substations. So, we BATters have to fill in this gap in the SC4 power system. Of course, diagonal functionality is one of my primary purposes in most anything I do in the game, so a diagonal substation will be included. Thank you for the compliment. :)
tulane633: Thanks for the kind words. ;) There are some good tutorials out there, including the one I followed [off-site linkie (http://www.simtropolis.com/omnibus/index.cfm/Main.SimCity_4.Custom_Content.BAT_Essentials_Page_One)], so BATting shouldn't be too hard to pick up if you have the time. As for the lines linking the lampposts, that would require either T21s, which I can't do yet, or overhanging lots, which can waste valuable road frontage. So, this probably won't be happening for now.
canyonjumper: I'm glad you like them, Jordan! ;) Actually, I did release the metal P3 Phase I set offsite at ST last month, but the site seems to be down today.
Buzzit: Thank you for the compliment! I'm pleased to meet another power line fan. I've always noticed the different corner pylons that are used in my area, and they always seem to vary based on the angle of the corner. As for BATting, I followed a tutorial [off-site linkie (http://www.simtropolis.com/omnibus/index.cfm/Main.SimCity_4.Custom_Content.BAT_Essentials_Page_One)] when I decided I wanted to BAT. Using some RL pictures, I built my first electricity pylon, which can be seen on the first page of this thread. My latest metal pole design is actually a revision of my first BAT. BATting may seem complicated at first, but it's not so bad if you have the time to put into it. One of the things that really helped me was listening to the good BATters we have in the SC4 community. They have always provided helpful tips and guidance to me.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa.imageshack.us%2Fimg148%2F3696%2Fp3pic025.jpg&hash=b8a219b7519d07fa808918a255d28752fc2ede6a)
Just a quick substation update. I've switched out the textures on the transformers, and I've also redesigned the center transformer model somewhat because I thought it was too flat and boring.
Becuase of RL and other SC4 projects, progress will be limited for a time.
EDIT: Edited to add tutorial links.
wow! it looks really good! ;D
wich tutorial did you use before you made your very first pylon?
i wanna try it aswell! maybe if i start to become good with it then i can help you with creating small and big pylons :)
Amazing! I'm blown away.
I'm just wondering: how do you get the power lines to work? Is it a similar proccess to TE?
hey metarvo got any updates on your powerlines?
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Buzzit: Thanks! :) Your work has helped to inspire me to get back to work on my project.
Highrise99: Thank you! :) The power lines work like any other lots. Zones and lots conduct power over a 2-tile radius in each direction. This effect can be seen with the Power Data View. If the power radii of two lots touch, and one of them has power, then the power will be conducted.
Buzzit (2): Well, it's not much of an update, but I have decided to get this thing back out and see what I can do with it.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg404.imageshack.us%2Fimg404%2F4343%2Fp3pic026.jpg&hash=ae2c389a8c24aa6a219f303b881e4e24b69d7b88)
Based on my own RL observations as well as valuable feedback, I have decided that the wire spans of my power line set are broken and unrealistic. To tell you the truth, I don't really like the 64m/4 tile span either, but I chose it because it would allow for power transmission in game. Still, I've been playing around with the idea of longer wire spans. The average wire span for the RL equivalent of this pole is about 1100 ft. This translates to 335.28 m. Since the tiles in SC4 are 16 m2, the nearest whole tile this figure can be rounded to is 336 m, or 21 tiles. As a result, I have chosen this wire span as a possible new default, although the "No Power" zots should make it obvious that power will not be transmitted this far in the game. Of course, parks, other lots, and the invisible powerline technique could help to bridge the gap, but it's not the same as actual power transmission along the lines. Still, what do all of you think about this as a possible option?
In addition, how do all of you feel about HD rendering? I've heard that it has pros and cons, but what I've seen of it in action looks so cool!
I like it. The long power lines look much more realistic.
I was telling Buzzit that the power radius is something that we have control of. If you are familiar with Reader, TGI: 6534284A, E7E2C2DB, C911E35B is the Utilities Simulator. Within it there is a property called "power radiation radius", and it is the radius power spreads in terms of tiles.
There's actually a lot of interesting things in there that seem to control the way power lines behave. There is also a similar property for water spread.
nice to see you back here Metarvo!
the long lines look great! allthough doesn't this get a bit hard with al the diffrent cornerings? or does it work aswell? because then i might think to make my lines longer.
andall i did is with the nopower issue is just remove set the power consumpsion to 0 with the ILives reader.
and offcourse the endpoints as powerplants(wich works fantastic btw! i also did it with my medium voltage pylons and it works like a charm!)
could you show the pylon in HD?
i think it looks fantastic that way(only the long rendering times are a downside here!)
but keep 't up glad you are back on this! ;D
I'm glad your back to making power lines. I like how you made the poles space much further out because before they were to close like you said, happy to see some more improvement. &apls
I really like what I'm seeing there. I'm lloking forward to see what you'll come with from this. :thumbsup:
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Lowkee33: Thanks. :) I agree that the longer spans look better, especially for these huge lines. So, does this Utilities Simulator property affect the entire game, or just the lots? I have Reader buried on my computer somewhere, so I'll take a look.
Buzzit: I appreciate the kind words. ;) Yes, I do have to rebuild the wirespans, both for the corners and the straight segments. Normally, I do set the Power Consumption to 0, but I forgot that time. So far, I haven't set the end poles as power plants, but it is an idea. Below is a comparison of the pylon in HD and SD.
Aaron Graham: Thank you. :) After hearing that my lines were too short, I decided to do something about it. The short wirespans were too restrictive, making it difficult to build a line across a highway with frontage roads, so I knew something had to be done.
TiFlo: Thanks for the compliment! ;)
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(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg716.imageshack.us%2Fimg716%2F5794%2Fp3pic027.jpg&hash=452aa699d2634d137f2a58ee1ced27d518fc81ad)
I can't remember ever showing a Zoom 6 picture anywhere before, so here's my first one. The P3 Phase I pole has been given the HD treatment, and the HD pole can be seen on the left, with the SD pole on the right.
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The other zoom that is affected by HD is Zoom 5, so here's a Zoom 5 comparison. HD is on the left, and SD is on the right.
So far, I haven't gotten around to rendering any wires in HD (render times ::) ), but the good news is that I don't actually have to rebuild the BATs to convert them to HD, with the exception of the rebuilding I might do anyway to get longer wirespans.
WOW
the HD pylons look fantastic! :o
whats the thickness of those struts and the structure it self?
seems alot thinner and more realistic then the pylons i created so far!
edit:
What i forgot to ask
could you send some coordinates on google earth were i can find your pylons?
i tryed finding them in texas but i haven't had any luck so far..
only found wich to me looks like an older model.
It would effect the whole game. It is possible to make power lines completely unneeded, but I think the point of your work is realism, and not so much the aspects of the game. If the game gets in the way of the realism I think we should to the best we can to alter the game.
The values are hexadecimal. I would guess you would want a radius of 10 tiles, which would be entered as 0x0A. 11 would be 0x0B. 255 (the maximum) would be 0xFF, and make power lines not needed at all. Similar values can be used for water pipes too, and I am not sure why we haven't seen a mod out there like that.
There are other variables in that exemplar that may be interesting if tested. They seem to effect the behavior of power lines. I haven't changed anything there myself.
HD looks a lot better than the SD version, keep it up. I'm going to keep checking on this thread a much as I can, I'm here to support you the best I can. ;D
Great work!
In zoom 6 the HD version is much better, of course, but in my opinion it's getting a bit too thin in zoom 5. There I prefer the SD version.
And @Lowkee: there is a mod that changes the radius of waterpipes and power to a whole large city. I use it all the time, because I am lazy and don't want to fool around with pipes and powerlines.
It is the "Utility Radius and Traffic Pollution Modd" by Ralphaelninja: http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=21352
A question to you metarvo and Buzzit. Do any of you powerline guys put fences around substations, if not kids and dumb teenagers are going to playaround it that area and people will most likely get hurt. ()sad()
Quote from: Aaron Graham on November 28, 2010, 04:37:23 PM
A question to you metarvo and Buzzit. Do any of you powerline guys put fences around substations, if not kids and dumb teenagers are going to playaround it that area and people will most likely get hurt. ()sad()
at first (my first release) i didn't had a special substationbased pylon just a pylon ending
but if you check my dutch set you will see a pretty nice fench with a warning sign ;)
i can't speak for metarvo entirely but i assume he isn't done yet with his substations and maybe he will add additional props and eye-candy as the finishing touch ;)
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Buzzit (1): Strut thickness is 0.02. As for the coordinates, try this [linkie] (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Plano,+TX&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Plano,+Collin,+Texas&ll=33.061079,-96.79899&spn=0.005422,0.011362&t=h&z=17).
Thanks for the compliment! ;) I'm still undecided about the whole HD thing, but I like how it's worked out so far.
Lowkee33: Thanks for the info. :) I guess I could play with that some, but I'm still afraid to mess around too much. ::)
Aaron Graham (1): I appreciate the support! :) I'm glad you like the HD version, too.
FrankU: Well, there's the pros and cons I mentioned. Unfortunately, this thinness in Zoom 5 is a known side effect of HD rendering. So, I'm still not totally sold on it, but I do like what it does for Zoom 6. As for the mod, thank you for the link. :) The trouble with a mod like this one is the fact that power lines would no longer be needed, so it wouldn't matter if these lines carried power or not. I guess this beats the alternative, though.
Aaron Graham (2): This has truly been bothering me just a little. I have actually had a fence prop BATted and ready to use for a little while now, but I haven't showed it anywhere. Until today, that is.
Buzzit (2): Not only will there be custom fences (with warning signs) that I have BATted just for the substations, but there will be other props, too. A few will be Maxis props, and others will be from BSC Mega Props SG Vol. 01, which is a commonly used dependency.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg826.imageshack.us%2Fimg826%2F7893%2Fp3pic029.jpg&hash=ea39f7ebbdb5c5932fbea83823a6798d8a954bc6)
What kind of electric company would I be running if I didn't build fences around my substations? I plan to use one dependency with this set, BSC Mega Props SG Vol. 01. This pack includes the trailer seen here, where the maintenance people stay.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg46.imageshack.us%2Fimg46%2F875%2Fp3pic030.jpg&hash=85665773616908fe380cd9d70d9375eae9267a69)
Here is another angle and zoom.
I'm am glad you have put down the fence around the power substation, another thing that bothers and I really wish I would of thought of it earlier, what bothers me is it the density of the power substation because it carries a lot of power. You will understand what I am talking about if you look at the pictures that I have gotting from google. I hope you like the pictures and I hope they can build up your ideas for making the ultimate power substation.
That does not only go for metarvo, that goes for a lot of the guys who are interested in making power poles.
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Aaron Graham: I have thought about this too, but the truth is that the substations generally used for this particular pylon model in RL are rather low-density. They are typically built out rather than up, which consumes more real estate. Ironically, I usually see the more vertical substations used with poles that are smaller.
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I have resumed construction of longer wirespans for my pylon set. This includes longer spans for the corners as well.
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These are the new deviation pylons that will be used for corners from about 47.5° to 62.5°. Of course, this is the only corner (~53.13°) presently in the set that falls within this range.
Looks good and I am so glad that you are working on those power line some more. &apls
Nice Metarvo. I really like your powerlines. &apls
looks great metarvo!
might be an interesting aspect to apply on my own sets
ill be up and running within +/- 4 weeks again :)
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Aaron Graham: Thank you! :)
Ernst (peter007): Thanks for the compliment. :)
Buzzit: I'm glad you like it! :) I thought the wirespans were too short, and a number of others agreed with me, so I decided to rework them. By the way, I'm glad you're back to work on your project again. ()stsfd()
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This is another peek at some of the substation stuff I've been experimenting with. As you can see with the grid on, I have planned to include diagonal and 18.435° FAR-aligning substations in addition to the orthogonal one you can also see here. These smaller substations are intended for dead ends or transitions to wireless power lines. I guess they could be used to fake a transition to underground as well, since one wasn't included in game.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg857.imageshack.us%2Fimg857%2F6694%2Fp3pic034.jpg&hash=9f10ab7d72881781d94ad26c55ae4a487fdbda0b)
MMPs are becoming an increasingly popular way to landscape. At first, there were the Maxis trees. Then several others made custom MMP trees, and there are seasonal ones in the works. Flowers, fences, and other props have been made into MMPs as well. The problem is the fact that a MMP can't be built too close to another prop, particularly one with a large Occupant Size. To allow for better landscaping, I have set the Occupant size for each of these power poles (and the separate wire props that go with them) to 1,1,1 in the Reader. This means that MMP grass, hay bales, or whatever can be placed in the power line ROW areas. You can even build trees under there, although I wouldn't recommend it at all. ::)
Looks good :)
Are you increasing the power span in the Utilities Exemplar? If so, you may also want to change the thickness of the Maxis lines for each zoom. I forget the property, but it is near the end and has 5 reps of decimals. The Reps go something like 0, 1, 4/5, 3/5, 2/5, 1/5. The 0 is the furthest zoom, and the 1 is the second furthest zoom. Maxis lines actually get thicker as you zoom out. I changed the reps to make more sense with pretty good results.
Excellent! &apls
Guillaume :thumbsup:
Quote from: metarvo on March 12, 2011, 04:28:26 PM
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MMPs are becoming an increasingly popular way to landscape. At first, there were the Maxis trees. Then several others made custom MMP trees, and there are seasonal ones in the works. Flowers, fences, and other props have been made into MMPs as well. The problem is the fact that a MMP can't be built too close to another prop, particularly one with a large Occupant Size. To allow for better landscaping, I have set the Occupant size for each of these power poles (and the separate wire props that go with them) to 1,1,1 in the Reader. This means that MMP grass, hay bales, or whatever can be placed in the power line ROW areas. You can even build trees under there, although I wouldn't recommend it at all. ::)
what an amazing level of detail you have on your picture my friend!
i will take note of that occupant size idea
btw maybe you can help me a bit with this one
because i noticed your pylons don't consume power but they still break down into pieces when destroyed
while mine just disseapear (wich imo looks a bit weird :P )
anyways keep it up metarvo! i allways like it to drop back here again :)
Looks great from what I'm seeing now. :thumbsup:
Loving the progress of the powerline set so far. The powerline substation transformer ends are looking fantastic. :thumbsup:
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Lowkee33: You know by now that I have been experimenting with the draggables just a little. I haven't done anything to the power line span yet, but I have longingly looked at that property. ()stsfd()
Guillaume (Sciurus): Thanks! :)
Buzzit: Thank you for the compliment! ;) Power line ROW areas aren't always completely barren IRL, so I don't think they should be in SC4. The truth is that wildflowers are often planted in these clear-cut areas, and I've even seen places where people used the power line ROW areas to plant gardens.
Aaron Graham: I appreciate the kind words! :)
SimNation: Thanks. :) I might still need to work on them a little, but I feel like this is more realistic than having a power line just stop dead (a la the Maxis lines) or even having it go into the ground for no real reason.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg685.imageshack.us%2Fimg685%2F5232%2Fp3pic037.jpg&hash=0c1fd53ec77d7a158bcbcebad56504199c72e5af)
Here is the latest pylon style that I plan to introduce to my set. It's running in between the other two lines.
http://img859.imageshack.us/img859/8042/p3apr00.jpg
(If you want to see what it looks like in red and white, here's the link)
The silver steel one looks more better.. :P
The new pylon looks great can't wait to see more. &apls
your new pylons looks great!
it looks much like a polish 110Kv pylon that i planned to make in the future :)
btw did you noticed
that the wires on the right side look a bit blurry?
or is this because of the picture?
just to let you know!
hope to see more soon :)
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louistsw: I agree. The red one was sort of a joke to pick on the Maxis poles a little. $%Grinno$%
Aaron Graham: Thanks! :) I haven't got to work on this as much as I would have liked, but I'm getting back on it now.
Buzzit: Thank you for the compliment! :) This must be a popular design, because I have seen a number of variations within the States. I imagine I took the picture too fast before the wires were completely drawn on screen, which would explain the blurriness.
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Here are the end poles for the 138 kV wood pole set, which includes fractional angles.
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Here are some corner poles. Notice that these are darker than the ones I showed previously. I felt that the other ones were too bright, so I darkened the texture.
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Here are the retextured straight section poles. The icons have been redesigned slightly, too.
I actually have most of the lots done for this set, so unless something unexpected comes up, I should release it fairly soon. I'm still working on the metal sets, too. I'm having a little trouble with the substations, though, particularly the diagonal and fractional angle ones. I had to use flat overhanging BATs as the bases, rather than textures, so that they would come up to the edge of diagonal and FAR roads. The problem is that the base overhangs vertically over any buildings or objects behind the building, even though it was flat when I BATted it. I plan to post a picture to show what I'm talking about, but it sounds like a LOD issue from what I've heard.
Thank you, thank you, I thought you have quit bting forever because I have not seen anything from you in ages, but we all understand that we can get busy. :D
I'm loveing the look of the power lines, keep it up. :thumbsup:
Great to see some new update work showing some different poles. Those 90 degree lines look pretty funky but I am sure I have seem them actually like that somewhere on power lines before.
Grid, this is what I miss most. Extra detail, great performance.
I do not know how in this case, but most of the energy networks in the puzzle nicely goes only on flat terrain and the inequalities it looks worse.
I hope that all these power lines will be done as a mod to someone who, like Street Addon Mod, will be allowed to choose the type of power line you want to bet.
Anyway, great job. Congratulations &apls :thumbsup:
Aaron Graham: Don't worry, I don't have any plans for quitting as far as I know. Thanks for the compliment! :)
SimNation: Thanks. :) I agree, some of the weirdest power poles show up around corners, particularly 90° ones. I assume you're talking about the wood ones, right? That wood pole is a fairly popular design that is in use all over the U.S. AFAIK, so you probably have seen those 90° poles.
DaveN: While these power lines are in effect only eyecandy, they do provide the feel of an integrated power grid IMO. For instance, you'll notice that I'm working on both 138 kV (wood) and 345 kV (metal) sets. The slope issue is something that can't really be avoided completely, but I will be including slope pieces in my releases that should allow at least limited use on slopes. The idea of a SAM-like mod for power lines has been thrown around, but the Maxis power line network can't be modded like that unfortunately. I've begun to explore the idea of replacing the Maxis models with my own, but such a mod would still be limited to only one set. Thank you for the compliment! :)
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I just wanted to run a potential restyle by all of you. I've added a darker metal texture to the pylons, and I've darkened the wires as well, because I felt they were too light before. Since I've been following Buzzit's project, I've decided to add in the ground wires (which are included on the RL equivalent anyway) and I've switched to double-circuit power (which is common on the RL equivalent). What do you think?
the pylons them selves look really nice now :)
but i think the wires could be a bit lighter(how do they look from the farest zoom?)
and i allways asked my self this
but what detail did you give your isolators?
are they just a cilinder or do they have more detail?(i asked my self this because on your model it all has the same color.)
it could also be that the level of detail isn't visible wich in my case is with the french medium voltages ones..
and im also to sloppy to give every pylon the same isolator measurements(wich i nowadays fixed btw :P)
but all is looking really nice now
looking forward to have them in game for a nice regional line :)
Buzzit, here are some other various views:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg856.imageshack.us%2Fimg856%2F4783%2Fp3pic042.jpg&hash=558987c719a47933d76bcaf9cfb07ebe6d2d0a35)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg809.imageshack.us%2Fimg809%2F1760%2Fp3pic043.jpg&hash=de42f9cd0e672019fa7de2466c7c8e87d268182a)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg11.imageshack.us%2Fimg11%2F5333%2Fp3pic044.jpg&hash=53370af5cadbf249083a35b5902f0f397e6e58be)
You know, the wires really do look rather dark. The good news is that I haven't actually rendered my entire set of wires with this darker shade yet, so I can still tweak it without having to backpedal too much. The isolators are in fact composed of many cylinders wrapped around a very thin line, but I guess I may need to tweak them a little to bring out the details. I want them to look right before you use them to make that regional line. ;) Thanks for the input! :)
So nice &apls maybe you should ameliorate white cylinders, and it will be perfect :thumbsup:
Your doing such a great job, I can't wait to see the sub stations for these power lines. Keep it up. &apls
hey Metarvo hows things going with the P3? it has been awefully quiet over here!
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supremec: Thanks! :) So, how do I go about ameliorating my cylinders? I've looked, and don't see an option like that anywhere.
Aaron Graham: Thank you. :) Before I work on the substations anymore, I want to get this isolator issue sorted out, because the isolators for the substations (and to a degree the ones on everything else) will be based on these.
Buzzit: After a long break from SC4 due to summer and RL, I'm planning to get back into this. This isolator issue had me bogged down just a little, but I think I'm starting to make some progress.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg838.imageshack.us%2Fimg838%2F6357%2Fp3pic045.jpg&hash=bebd5f5a9c9c0eb720cbfb532c2ab02c2fdbb470)
Here's a test render showing the new isolators. I can see that they appear more ridged than the old ones, but this effect diminishes in far zooms.
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This is a close up of the isolators.
It is really good :thumbsup:
Quote from: metarvo on August 15, 2011, 08:23:44 AM
supremec: Thanks! :) So, how do I go about ameliorating my cylinders? I've looked, and don't see an option like that anywhere.
A bit more grey and a bit more small at radius, but it is my opinion, you can do what you want ;D
I have rebuilt the isolators again. Following supremec's suggestions, I have designed these new isolators with a smaller radius, and they are more grey now.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg268.imageshack.us%2Fimg268%2F7503%2Fp3pic047.jpg&hash=e932f9efa36aa59426b5a40d592c15438a12675f)
This is a test render of the redesigned isolators,
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg687.imageshack.us%2Fimg687%2F6818%2Fp3pic048.jpg&hash=3ea7bdb4da74c39af6c06c47d294ac87349726dd)
and here is a close-up from within the BAT.
oh they look really nice!
far diffrent than anyones i ever seen but still cool! aspecially from far!
btw could you scale this model times 2 if you have the time? im pretty curious how it looks like it when scaled up :)
its good to see you back! im not feeling alone anymore when its about pylons :D
Looks great, I can't wait to see more. :D
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Buzzit: Thank you for the kind words! :) It's good to be back, since I started missing pylons again. ;D I'm trying to at least give my isolators some life, rather than just slapping some cylinders on a stick and calling it good like I did before. Yes, I did try upscaling the model times 2 as requested.
Aaron Graham: Thanks for the compliment. :)
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Here is the Zoom 5 view of the pylon with new isolators, shown in SD and HD, normal scale and 2x scale. 120 ft. is indeed the textbook average for this pylon, so upscaling it 2x results in 240 ft., which is quite high (perhaps not in comparison to the European pylons that I have heard about and seen pictures of). The real problem, though, it the fact that the pylon no longer fits into a 1x1-tile area, as seen in these in-game pics.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg607.imageshack.us%2Fimg607%2F1608%2Fp3pic050.jpg&hash=d48cb5cf2ebd9c3b77e449ac48466216fd0c23fb)
Here is a Zoom 6 shot of the two 1x-scale pylons, to better showcase the crispness that only HD can provide.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg9.imageshack.us%2Fimg9%2F2530%2Fp3pic051.jpg&hash=05947d39e335198372ec17d9842e4d4c61f753e1)
Here is a Zoom 4 pic. Of course, there's no difference between HD and SD from this zoom out. Notice that the ridged texture of the new isolators can't be seen as clearly in this zoom on the 1x pylons. It can be seen better on the 2x pylons, simply because the bigger pylons have larger isolators to match.
I'm still not sold on upscaling them 2x, though. 1x will probably be the route I will go here.
wow thats a diffrence indeed!
tobad that i get really confused about the sizes now because the smaller ones of you look better than the big ones but its the opposite with my models hehe.
also when i put them next to maxis buildings they do look a bit oversized. but if i put them next to downloaded material wich is somewhat bigger they look really nice. aspecially with downloaded tree packs.
i also limit my pylon feet to 8 meter wich will be doubled to 16 (wich is the maximum for 1 tile. as i will use 9 tiles for really big river crossings.
keep the updates flowing! :thumbsup:
The Maxis scale is way off anyway. ::) That's why I built these strictly by the RL measurements (or by comparison with the RL poles when measurements were unavailable). From what I've seen by comparing the RL pictures of your pylons to my measurements and templates, yours are much taller IRL than mine anyway, which may be why they look better taller than mine do.
Here are two more development pics that display the new isolators and textures in place on various poles and angles:
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The double-circuit wires I have already BATted for this set will still work, because the changes I've made are purely cosmetic. Expect to see them in the next update. ;)
Looks great. :D
Thanks, Aaron. :) As promised, here are some pics of the new wires. I have created a custom texture just for the wires, as opposed to the basic solid colors I used previously. Direction and zoom level are indicated in each pic.
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hey metarvo it has been ages!
do you have any updates on your project??
the most recent ones surely look good!
I just Hope he can get back to bating soon. :(
Hey! So when will be bating again? I would like to see you new H frames the wood poles. 138kv poles!!
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Buzzit: I'm still trying to get the substations ready, but progress is moving along on the 345kV metal set. I'm glad to be working on these again! :)
Aaron Graham: I'm sorry I was away for so long. I've just been busy with some non-SC4 things lately. I'm back now, though. :)
Lewis2567: I'm back to work on this project again, although I haven't really done any work on the 138kV wood set lately. I'll get back on it soon. :)
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I don't have too much to show right now, but I did think of something else the set needed. Playing around with this set, I regularly run into situations where a building or road happens to be just where the next pylon needs to be located. It turns out that varying the length of the span might not help because there's yet another obstacle where the pylon after that one would go. Rarely are structures ever torn down for the construction of power lines; they usually curve around the occasional bump in the route. When an 18.4° or 45° angle would take the route unnecessarily out of the way, an S-curve can prove to be a better alternative, which is why I'm now including them in the set. The S-curve's function is to slide the line over by one tile. The wood pole set will be getting them as well.
thats a fantastic idea! i never thought of that one &apls !
it indeed is really annoying to redecorate the scene because the pylon is in the way of the road or a building. i usually demolished it because powerlines have the highest priority in my land ()stsfd().
it seems like you redone your orgininal model aswell? or is this exclusively used for the S-curve?
Lol ;D ! I guess structures are bulldozed in dense cities to clear the path for power lines in my area (the local electric utilities are some of the privileged few that get to use eminent domain), but the utilities near me do try to avoid tearing things down in rural areas or suburbs where there is sufficient real estate available.
This model is only going to be used for the S-curve for now. It's the equivalent of the RL set's 5° pylon, which is used for any angle below one requiring a 10° piece instead. According to one site I looked up (I can't remember the name of the site for the life of me now :-[ ), most RL pylon sets usually have straight, 30°, and 90° variants. Even the pricing tables for the RL equivalent of my set include those three variants, but the actual set has a ton of different models: straight, 5°, 10° (not yet represented in my set), 25°, 70°, and 90°. I've also added in 40° and 55° poles (with the angles based on Google Maps observations rather than official specifications) to my recreation of the set which were used at one time in RL but apparently no longer are for new installations. They actually seem to favor using 90° pylons for every turn now, even though actual 90° realignments in the lines were once quite rare. They show up much more now that the new lines in the western part of the state are following farm field fences.
Thanks for the input. :)
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Here's a comparison of the S-curve model (edges) with the standard one (center). As seen here, each rotation will have two S-curves, with one going left and the other going right.
amazing job
what a work this should be!
it takes me more than a frustrating week to wire my poles orthogonal an diagonal. and you create angles wich are even more frustrative if you ask me!
is there some kind of technique you use for wireing the pylons? if its possible to do it faster i would love to know
@Buzzit: I imagine a simple way is to select every object and move all of their pivots to 0,0,0. Then they will at least rotate along the same axis. It's one of those tabs in the upper right, a button called "Effect pivot only".
Some of those angles aren't so great for the power lines. For small details, you might want to turn on anti-aliasing in the S3D. Here is an image of what needs to be done in the Mat section (Link (http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/7412/transparency.jpg)), I've also made a script for Xannepan that will do it automatically for you in Reader 1.4 (Link (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2596.msg392575#msg392575)).
Another thing that can be done (though much more time consuming) is editing the FSH directly. FSH have alpha values, but if you don't edit the S3Ds as I mentioned, SC4 will only display the 100% opacity pixels. I've found that doing an "Alpha Threshold" at 50% (anything more than 50% opaque becomes 100% and anything under becomes 0%) works pretty good.
Anyway, keep up the good work, glad to see you back :)
Quote from: Lowkee33 on May 14, 2012, 03:48:42 PM
@Buzzit: I imagine a simple way is to select every object and move all of their pivots to 0,0,0. Then they will at least rotate along the same axis. It's one of those tabs in the upper right, a button called "Effect pivot only".
Never tried this before. i will try this the first moment i have time again.
Some of those angles aren't so great for the power lines. For small details, you might want to turn on anti-aliasing in the S3D. Here is an image of what needs to be done in the Mat section (Link (http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/7412/transparency.jpg)), I've also made a script for Xannepan that will do it automatically for you in Reader 1.4 (Link (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2596.msg392575#msg392575)).
What reader do you mean? Ilives reader? i allready tried some programs wich should enable AA but unfortunately im running this all on windows 7 wich didn't supported those programs. but i assume you mean another reader. We might want to discuss this further in my topic to keep things clean in Metarvo's one :)
Another thing that can be done (though much more time consuming) is editing the FSH directly. FSH have alpha values, but if you don't edit the S3Ds as I mentioned, SC4 will only display the 100% opacity pixels. I've found that doing an "Alpha Threshold" at 50% (anything more than 50% opaque becomes 100% and anything under becomes 0%) works pretty good.
Anyway, keep up the good work, glad to see you back :)
Your models are great, but I think that some of them are overscaled... It is little too big for me. If in the game one tile have 16 meters, then arms of some of your pylon have three tiles, that almost 50 meters. It's too big. I think that pylons would have about 50 meters long and about 30 meters on the X line.
Quote from: DaveN on June 17, 2012, 03:07:31 PM
Your models are great, but I think that some of them are overscaled... It is little too big for me. If in the game one tile have 16 meters, then arms of some of your pylon have three tiles, that almost 50 meters. It's too big. I think that pylons would have about 50 meters long and about 30 meters on the X line.
i think you are underestimating the size of powerlines.
i dont know how big they are in America.
but i can tell you that some European pylons (aspecially the high voltages up to 380kV and above) have a minimum high of 40 meters. the highest type of the netherlands for example is almost 60 meters.
the length of the traverses(the 'arms' of the poles) can vary from 5 to 20 meters. 20+20 plus the structure is about 50 meters. wich is in this case realistic.
if you think these are tall i dare you to check out my page :D
but i worked with the measurements of the sims and not the buildings. thats why mine for sample look so big.
but don't forget powerline pylons are really big! i underestimated them my self years ago :D
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Buzzit (1): The NAM, with its fractional angle networks, was an inspiration to me to include matching angles in my set. I also wanted a reason to use some of the various angle pylons included in the RL incarnation of this set. Of course, the use of unusual angles is necessary for the type of S-curves I plan to include.
The technique I use actually involves dragging straight lines between the isolators, cloning them at two additional lower heights, and dragging the wires across these lines with Vertex and Edge snaps active so that they will droop.
Lowkee33: This method of dragging wires at various angles is one that I'll have to try sometime. As for the alpha issues, I tried the method of editing the S3Ds in the reader as shown in the image you linked to, but it didn't have any appreciable effect on the wires for me. Editing the FSHs is a last result for me because of the time involved, but I'm willing to do it if necessary. I welcome any additional help on this issue, and I appreciate what you've already provided, because I really don't want to give up these additional angles.
Buzzit (2): Ilive's Reader is indeed the reader Lowkee referred to.
DaveN: The horizontal span of the tangent pole is 22.4536 m. (73 2/3 ft.) and the horizontal spans of some of the angle poles are even wider. Yes, this does cause the span to take up more than one tile. However, the actual footprint in game is based on the dimensions of the base rather than the upper structure. In addition, these pylons IRL normally carry a right of way of 48.768 m. (160 ft.), which is approximately three tiles in game.
Buzzit (3): That's true, lol. ;D I remember saying once that my pylons looked small compared to yours.
I don't yet have anything new to share, because I'm just getting back to work on this project. However, I'm interested in getting this anti-aliasing issue resolved. I notice that the wires for some angles look like dotted lines.
First of all, I'd like to thank Noah for inspiring me to look at power plants on Google Maps. I feel that this has inspired me to get back to work on this project. :) Hopefully, the BATting process won't throw me as many snags as it has.
I've been experimenting with ways to make the fractional angle wires show up better, since I feel the BAT tool itself doesn't do them justice when rendering them. Since the orthogonal and diagonal wires showed up fine, however, I got the idea to use Cogeo's Model Tweaker to rotate ortho wires of the correct length 18.435°. Here is the result in various zooms and angles:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg841.imageshack.us%2Fimg841%2F2830%2Fp3pic058.jpg&hash=6805d5ebc96da9fcd0d9fa53d166cb6cacc8f67d)
To make the effect believable, I had to separate the lower wires from the upper wires in each circuit before rotating them. The static wires at the top are separate from the circuits as well. It's still not perfect, but I feel the result is a little better than that of the FA3 wires rendered in the BAT tool. I did notice that this method erased any shadows for zooms further than 5, so I merged each group of wires with a corresponding transparent group of wires rendered in BAT. This provided shadows without the dreaded dotted-line effect that FA3 wires rendered in BAT can produce. If this is a suitable means of creating such angles, it will be good news, especially with the additional fractional angles that the NAM is bringing to the forefront.
Looks beautiful man &apls Really clever implementation of the FA as well. Near as I can see it turned out perfectly. I didn't realize you could use model tweaker to rotate stuff (I'm pretty new to it) but I guess I learn something new everyday ;D And I'm very glad I helped push you to get back into this project--I'm a big fan of your work!
I actually have a power line idea I thought I'd run by you: have you considered doing a version of your powerlines in the same way Girafe did his ski lifts and gondolas, where the wires don't overhang the lot but are the same size of the lot? It would allow the wires work in hilly areas, though they'd follow every wrinkle in the terrain and not always look good. Full disclosure, my suggestion may be motivated by me wanting a nice way to get power down from my current dam project $%Grinno$%
Looking forward to what's next :thumbsup:
@Noah: I do have a powerline set with optional wire-less pylons for hilly areas ;)
Anyway, it's nice to see some more development again, Metravo :thumbsup:
Looks great, and I'm happy your back man. :D
Very good! For Noah's idea, I figure leveling terrain with a network tool first would allow the power lines to follow that same slope. Kind of like a slope mod for power lines :D
Cheers
Willy
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Noah (Noahclem): Thank you for the compliment! :) I believe you've got me addicted to Google Maps again. $%Grinno$% Model Tweaker's a tool that I'm just now starting to use, but it's becoming a favorite already.
Maarten (MandelSoft): Thanks for the kind words! :) Wireless pylons are quite useful, too, and they will be a part of this set, if only as fillers for those situations in which the wires of two separate poles meet.
Aaron Graham: Thanks for the compliment! :) It's always refreshing to get back to work on this project.
Willy (Swordmaster): I appreciate the kind words. :) This only reinforces the concept of power lines as a lesser-known transit network. ()stsfd()
I don't have any progress to show at the moment, but I've been doing a little research. I searched Girafe's BAT thread, and I saw some nice pictures of the slope conforming ski lifts, but I failed to find any details about the method used to make them do that. As far as the wires overhanging the lot go, I built them that way so that the lines could cross roads, farm fields, rivers, etc. I also made the wires overhang so that a lot wouldn't have to be built on every tile of the line. I gather from your post that the power line lots would have to be built on every tile using this method.
Now, I suppose I could include some lots using this method to supplement the non-slope conforming overhanging lots. If implemented, these would replace the BATted sloped wires that I had previously considered including. I'm guessing I would have to forgo drooping wires for the slope-conforming lots as well, although that wouldn't be that big of a deal on a slope. I'm willing to give it a try if I can just figure out how to do it.
Sometimes, this can be an uphill BATtle...
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The method I'm using for slope friendliness involves short-span wire props. This has a few drawbacks, though. First of all, it requires a fairly high number of props on each lot. I'm experimenting to see how few I can get away with using while still having a convincing slope effect. Second, it requires lots to be placed along the entire length of the sloped line. This takes up space, which normally wouldn't be an issue under power lines or on hills, but it might be if there was a need for a road to run under the line. I got around this problem by creating an additional overhanging lot with slope-friendly wires running along the lot's length and a non-slope-friendly overhang on one edge. Finally, the slope-friendly wires don't droop, but I figure this won't be that big of a deal on slopes.
Sometimes?
And this is the reason why very few people step up to the plate with this. It's too bad the same connection requirement that puzzle pieces use couldn't be forced to required these to connect the wire consistently at often uneven slope shifting levels.
This could be a great idea. Slope-Friendly Wires would be very nice. But it might not work the way I think it will. Not a moder, (want to be though) but looks like it could be hard to do. Dose this method that you are doing require a lot coding when you were make the props?
nice work.
there is a third drawback you did not mention, as they are slope frendly, the wires will have the slope of the hill, no matter how the hill is sloped. if you have a section of terrain that is wavy, forming ripples ( like the w) for example, the wires will have that shape too. and that is not realistic.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg403.imageshack.us%2Fimg403%2F6950%2Farvosigsc4dar3.jpg&hash=2369d06fb66ad40b6c315cbe8f6f96aff2c34238)
j-dub: Thanks for the compliment. :) This is one reason why I want slopes to be a part of my set; not many have done it.
Lewis2567: Thanks for the kind words. :) This method requires the use of several short-span wire segments (0.5m for ortho, 0.7m for diagonal, and 1.6m for FA3) placed in a line across the lot. If the lot is placed on a properly terraformed slope, the wires will appear to follow that slope. Note that I didn't use the "Orient to Slope" option in the Reader; it causes gaps to be left in the wires.
gn_leugim: Thank you for the compliment. :) This means that the lines will have to be run along the right kind of slopes, such as those molded with slope mods like Willy suggested. Since the slope-friendly wire spans are mostly broken into 1x1 lots, one can exercise more control over where the pylons go. Precisely placed poles (e.g. on hilltops or in valleys) should minimize the wavy effect. It's not a perfect solution, but it's the only one I can think of at the moment.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg560.imageshack.us%2Fimg560%2F9058%2Fkq8u.jpg&hash=78c85f8217f8db6775e18702a4693ed163f4057a)
Here are the diagonal and fractional angle 3 (FA3) slope-friendly wires. I notice that the different method of wire creation causes the slope-friendly wires to become too bright and take on a slight red tint, so I'm considering creating a separate wire texture to be used exclusively on slope-friendly wires. The shadows are acting weird on the slopes, but that may be unavoidable.
Well this is really interesting.
if you create mountains with a clean slope i bet it would look pretty good!
Any further progress with this method?
I haven't had time to do much on this lately, but I'm planning on going back in there and seeing where I'm at with this project. I should be picking it up again soon. ;)
You better do that. We're all sitting here with our arms crossed, waiting.
Building some pressure . . .
Cheers
Willy
Great to see those slope-conforming powerlines &apls Guess I was on vacation when you posted before. Good to hear you plan on working on this again soon :thumbsup:
Quote from: Swordmaster on November 05, 2013, 08:09:34 AM
You better do that. We're all sitting here with our arms crossed, waiting.
Building some pressure . . .
Cheers
Willy
Yes... Waiting... $%#Ninj2
is this enough pressure?
Wow... It has been over a year now since he has done any work on the project. Or at least post it on the forums. Metarvo most be busy or either forgot about us. :crytissue:
— Lewis2567
Lewis please don't revive old threads.
As you said, its been over an year since he posted.
Quote from: vester on January 11, 2015, 12:46:19 PM
Lewis please don't revive old threads.
As you said, its been over an year since he posted.
Hmm... Okay
So this is a rule here as well? I didn't know that was a rule for forums.
Doesn't seem like much sense, since we are on the forums. The only place I know of that does this is Wikia...
But I do have a question about this matter, if we're not allow to revive old threads, how come some users have done this on other threads such as "Show us your powergrids" and not be questioned about it? I would just like to know.
— Lewis2567
Stickied threads may always be posted in, no matter the inactivity, while the majority of other threads are contingent on activity by the thread author/owner(s).
This is generally the rule for most forums, especially moderated ones like SC4Devotion.
Also, some threads like bug report threads, support threads, and poster-driven threads (like the Show Us Your...) are also always open for posts, since their primary purpose is to always be available to posters when necessary/desired.
Just trying some things out here...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FfDtgQwn.jpg&hash=1c0cde6b4a4d5b13e3df480574411c2fd2f25d4e)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fxzg9MKi.jpg&hash=371860323691eeac1cea87ee852b4c0f14055c0e)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FefosRUf.jpg&hash=3b2e17ed1187fea6b875ea5581eb95f4f51a29b8)
1- Looks good, diagonal and great model :thumbsup:
2- Again a great model. Mmp friendly, even better :)
3- Ugh, that's just grimy ;) (jk, it looks great, just a tad too realistic maybe? $%Grinno$%)
Metarvo is back into BAT again! :bnn: Great news! The models look awesome! :thumbsup:
Thanks for the comments! Here's just a little more...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FMxePxTA.jpg&hash=6d49522223c65b91eab2dc797a09370c7b150aa8)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FLpvHlVz.jpg&hash=8b8f6f5509632cc3ea658c80beeefbe0c3eabdbe)
Looks great! &apls
Very interesting pylons. :)
Looking real great there and love how it the feel is sooo rural for sure
Vortext: Thank you! :)
Art128: Thanks for that! :)
Pat: It's good to see you around again. Thanks for the compliment! :) Rural's sort of what I'm going for, although these poles can also be used in urban areas.
I've been a little busy, but I've tested this set and I may have an upload for y'all very shortly.
In all of my testing, I find that this set works best with the fine content others have created. Here's an example of what you can do by combining it with MMPs.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fubrkkg7.jpg&hash=60f8439cd2fc6501cbfdb4af4377f85f7d7cc7b0)
EDIT: Here they are: the models (http://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/31263-metarvo%E2%80%99s-power-pole-pack-p3-models-volume-1/), the steel V-towers (http://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/31264-metarvo%E2%80%99s-power-pole-pack-p3-set-0-texas-steel-v-tower/), and the wood H-frames (http://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/31265-metarvo%E2%80%99s-power-pole-pack-p3-set-1-wood-h-frame/).
Now, for something completely different!
(https://i.imgur.com/Sc2hAP1.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/H6ngc3v.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/aJjpOLY.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/a3UnHuR.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/CVoFGD7.jpg)
Heh, I just got tired of there being a shortage of fractional-angle cars. Plus, I wanted to get the Ford Focus hatchback a little representation. :) Just white and red for now, but more models and colors are planned.
FA car looks great and will be very useful and I love the mmps &apls Keep up the good work :thumbsup:
Good start.
New car BATs are hard to find these days.. :)
Simmer2
Noah (noahclem): I just wanted to fill a little gap here. :) I feel that a lack of FA cars is holding back the growth of BATting and LOTting at these angles. Sadly, these are not actually MMPs yet, but they're merely placed on empty lots; I'll need to learn MMP before this can happen.
Nick (Simmer2): I was curious about trying my hand at BATting something a little different. It wasn't so bad once I found the dimensions and such. Besides, we can always use more cars. ;D
(https://i.imgur.com/O2PGaKq.jpg)
This is just another pic better illustrating the different angles that are to be included.
Nice job !! Cars are always a good addition to our game :thumbsup:
Great!!
Are you exporting them in HD? (can't really see it)
It would truly make a difference.
Nick
Looking great! Was referring to the earlier powerline MMPs last time ;)
kelis: Thanks! :) My goal at the moment is to try to put together a starter set with various angles of somewhat common cars.
Nick (Simmer2): Thank you! :) Until this post, all pictures I've shown of these cars are SD. However, that will change... ;)
Noah (noahclem): Thanks! :)
Now that I've tried some test renders in HD, here are the two zoom views affected by SD and HD:
Zoom 5
(https://i.imgur.com/Ui7FXXz.jpg)
Zoom 6
(https://i.imgur.com/ry14NHA.jpg)
My chief worry with HD is that the cars would clash with others out there which are SD. I realize it's probably an outdated concern at this point, but I digress. I want my content to play nice with the fine content that everyone else is making. ;) I recognize that others are doing HD now, though.
First off, great to see some new vehicles and FA variants will surely be in high demand.
MMPs are no trouble really, I can help you with that if need be.
The SD/HD question is much easier answered by doing both. If you DATPack all the models, you can offer two one with SD and another with HD renders. Give each model the same ID when rendering, careful working with gMax/BAT4Max will achieve this for no effort. Then regardless of what you do with them, Props/MMPs and everything else can reference whichever set the user installed, saving a lot of needless duplication.
The models themselves look great, but perhaps the textures could use a little adjustment to work with the SC4 palette a little better. The white ones are pretty good, but the Yellow and Lime models could do with toning back. Maybe reducing the saturation and adding a gradient (if you haven't already) would improve them.
I'd also say they look a bit squashed horizontally for a Focus, stretching them a little longer could work wonders. Although I understand it's necessary to try and keep the size of existing car props for the sake of consistency. For that reason, it would be nice to see a comparison shot with some of Girafe's or SHK's cars, which are probably some of the best out there right now.
However, all said and done, there's nothing so hugely wrong here that would prevent me using them as they are.
Thank you for the input, mgb! :)
I've begun the process of editing the Focus model to be a little longer to see if that helps. Since the problem originates in the source model, I figure I should edit that one and then rotate and retexture it to get all of the different angle and color variants. Speaking of color, I'm also editing most of the textures themselves since they're too bright. Placing them next to SHK's cars (which happen to be on the parking lots I most often use) makes this obvious. My plan at the present is for most of the cars (other than the Focus) to be somewhat neutral or dark, since those seem to be the most common colors, but I find that smaller cars and sports cars get brighter colors. Still maybe not as bright as what I had, though! ::)
In the meantime, so I don't burn out, I'm continuing to BAT these power poles too.
(https://i.imgur.com/uQfivLF.jpg)
I've sort of been kicking this idea around lately. This shows up rarely as an alternative to that 5-degree metal 345 kV angle pylon, but it almost seems bulky enough to be used in a substation, so now I'm getting ideas. ()stsfd()
Those poles look great! Perhaps you could slap a weathered concrete texture on the concrete feet (they seem too bright).
And of course, since it would only take a bit longer to render, it would be a bonus if you could render them in HD.
HD works wonders on angled thin models (you don't get too much zig-zag such as SD does)
Nick
The power poles look great - I don't see any real issues with zig-zagging. It looks like you've struck a really good balance between the delicateness of the line size and what gmax will actually render :thumbsup: