The RTMT V3 Support Thread

z · April 11, 2009, 01:38:23 AM

EDIT: The explanation I had here turned out to be incorrect, so I have removed it in order not to confuse people. The problem described by Silverwarp is currently being investigated further, and results will be posted below as they are found.

tylero · April 11, 2009, 08:32:53 AM

Thanks for your help,

When I downloaded the station from the STEX they just came inside a compressed file so i just unpacked them and placed them in the plugins folder there was never an option for installing ?

CaptCity · April 11, 2009, 11:43:00 AM

Hello z...

Given your response to Silverwarp's post, and because I couldn't guarentee that I always drag the network through the RTMT stops (I usually try to remember), I got curious. Running a quick test, I found that except for the GLR-in-Avenue stations, everything else worked fine for regular and UDI traffic without dragging though the stations. Perhaps that's why it hasn't been documented anywhere. The GLR-in-Avenue stations stations did require dragging the one-way road through on both sides, but I believe that is given in the instructions. Anyway, my two cents...

The real question I have concerns the 'bug' I (and a few others) came up against a while back; the one concerning the combo stations not allowing Sims to get on the subway. While running my little test, I found that I couldn't repeat that particular problem any more. What I did see was that the GLR-in-Avenue station now experiences the same phenomenom as some of Buddybud's and Blahdy's underpass lots (I think those are the ones). There needs to be an alternative route available for Sims in order for the stations to function. I was wondering, since you have mentioned that the previous bug has been worked out, if this is due to the update RTMT patch to the z-simulator (since that's what I use). I haven't tried to check any of the other simulators or stations, but I will. It was something I just experienced and was a little curious. Hope this makes sense... I may very well just be doing something wrong (or at least strange). Thanks...

CaptCity

Korot · April 11, 2009, 11:43:55 AM

@ Tylero: From the STEX there is both an installer and a manual install version available, you got the second one. I suggest you to read the read me and remove unnecessary files, before they screw up your game.

z · April 11, 2009, 03:04:12 PM

Quote from: CaptCity on April 11, 2009, 11:43:00 AM
Given your response to Silverwarp's post, and because I couldn't guarentee that I always drag the network through the RTMT stops (I usually try to remember), I got curious. Running a quick test, I found that except for the GLR-in-Avenue stations, everything else worked fine for regular and UDI traffic without dragging though the stations. Perhaps that's why it hasn't been documented anywhere. The GLR-in-Avenue stations stations did require dragging the one-way road through on both sides, but I believe that is given in the instructions. Anyway, my two cents...

Thanks for your input, CaptCity. As a result of what you said, I did more experiments, and found that the problem only happens with police cars, but it seems to always happen with them. I think I know why - I think it has to do with the nonexistent building. More experimentation is needed. (Maybe you could try police cars in your cities.) In the mean time, it appears that my previous analysis was incorrect, and I am removing the corresponding FAQ for now. I will report back as soon as I figure out what's going on here (which should be later today), and I'll address the second part of question then as well.

tylero · April 11, 2009, 03:14:43 PM

AGHH !

I reinstalled the nam and the RTMT stations with the installer and still I only get the avenue ones. If ever there was a time to give up...

I installed this RTMT which was the only installer I could find under th RTMT name : Roadtop Mass Transit V3 Installers

z · April 11, 2009, 04:58:23 PM

Yes, that's the correct installer. In the screen after the license agreement, there are three check boxes. The first is "Install the Roadtop Stations." Are you sure you had that box checked?

CaptCity · April 11, 2009, 06:27:12 PM

z...

Back again, and scratching my head... I tried the police car UDI, and it seemed ok in the cities I tried it in. I even started a new city and made sure I did not drag through the RTMT stops. All worked for me. Hmmmm...

Concerning the the combo stations... seems I may have generalized a bit. After checking further, it seems that only the non-GLR-in-Ave stations (ave and road) are behaving as I mentioned before. If two GLR-in-Ave stations are connected by a single subway line, they seem to function ok. I don't know... seems I can't get the same thing to occur twice. Maybe in these quick checks I'm running I'm being too specific and in a regular city with all forms of transportation operating, things will be fine. Let me know if I can help with anything else...

CaptCity

Silverwarp · April 12, 2009, 02:13:41 AM

Ok, I've did some testing a few times. It seems to affect all land vehicles and only on roads (possibly streets too). I've noticed on my avenues, the vehicle is forced into the road when I passed through the stop (it also makes a turning signal), which could be explained because an avenue has 2 lanes. Some of the stations I was able to pass through and some of them I couldn't. I could not find a particular pattern. However, when the vehicle is snapped onto the road, then the vehicle can move through with no problem. If it's not, then it's like I said earlier, like hitting a wall. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with combo stations at all.

z · April 12, 2009, 02:47:55 AM

I've just finished some experiments that gave the identical results as yours, Silverwarp. So the workaround for now is to use the "snap to road" feature. I noticed that if you don't have this on and get stopped at a station, turning it on at that point will allow you to proceed through. This was all tested in a city that's centuries old.

The really strange thing here is that I built a small test city, and I couldn't duplicate the problem at all!

I even put up all the buildings necessary (except the Toxic Waste Dump) to get the full selection of UDI vehicles available. No matter what I did, none of them were halted by the stations. And no path activation was necessary anywhere.

This needs to be looked into more. At least there's a simple workaround. Of course, I understand that if you don't like using "snap to road," it's not optimum.

What about other people? Can you use UDI and RTMT in your cities without turning on "snap to road"?

Quote from: CaptCity on April 11, 2009, 06:27:12 PM
Concerning the the combo stations... seems I may have generalized a bit. After checking further, it seems that only the non-GLR-in-Ave stations (ave and road) are behaving as I mentioned before. If two GLR-in-Ave stations are connected by a single subway line, they seem to function ok. I don't know... seems I can't get the same thing to occur twice. Maybe in these quick checks I'm running I'm being too specific and in a regular city with all forms of transportation operating, things will be fine. Let me know if I can help with anything else...

What you report is consistent with my testing, which was rather extensive. Of all the RTMT stations containing subways, all had this problem, except the combo subway/GLR station for GLR-in-avenue, which worked perfectly. And although all the other stations had this problem, occasionally they would let a few Sims through. Sometimes it was only in the morning commute, sometimes only in the evening commute, sometimes both. But the numbers, even when not zero, were always way too low. Once I rewrote the transit switch points for these stations, everything worked fine, consistently and reliably.

As for the RTMT patch, this was released before I discovered the cause and fix for the subway bug. The patch merely changes station capacities and eliminates the intersection effect around stations. I actually did most of my testing for this bug with the patched version of RTMT, so I know the patch didn't change anything.

With regard to the GLR-in-avenue stations' requiring an alternative route available for Sims in order for the stations to function, I would imagine that this is due to the fact that these stations, unlike any others besides the T-RAM stations, are not transit enabled to their adjoining network. These stations could be transit enabled, but this would make them much more difficult to use, as well as allowing them to cause CTD problems with puzzle pieces. This is just an educated guess on my part about the cause of this behavior; if anyone has more knowledge of what's going on here, please post. In any case, it doesn't sound like a serious problem, and unless people disagree, I don't think we're going to do anything further here.

tylero · April 12, 2009, 07:26:40 AM

Quote from: z on April 11, 2009, 04:58:23 PM
Yes, that's the correct installer. In the screen after the license agreement, there are three check boxes. The first is "Install the Roadtop Stations." Are you sure you had that box checked?

100%

Now I only get the avenue stations and the one tram station that used to appear is now just boxes

z · April 12, 2009, 01:58:53 PM

Did you check the "Install the Menu Management Lot" on the following screen? This box is checked by default, and will hide all the icons until you plop the lot and run the game for a month.

CaptCity · April 12, 2009, 03:49:44 PM

Quote from: z on April 12, 2009, 02:47:55 AM
What you report is consistent with my testing, which was rather extensive. Of all the RTMT stations containing subways, all had this problem, except the combo subway/GLR station for GLR-in-avenue, which worked perfectly. And although all the other stations had this problem, occasionally they would let a few Sims through. Sometimes it was only in the morning commute, sometimes only in the evening commute, sometimes both. But the numbers, even when not zero, were always way too low.

Exactly what I found to be the case when checking things out. However...

QuoteAs for the RTMT patch, this was released before I discovered the cause and fix for the subway bug. The patch merely changes station capacities and eliminates the intersection effect around stations. I actually did most of my testing for this bug with the patched version of RTMT, so I know the patch didn't change anything.

...this kind of surprised me. When I replaced the updated RTMT files with the originals, the 'bug' returned for the GLR-in-Ave combo stations again. As for the alternate path idea, it seems to be only when connecting a GLR-in-Ave station with a regular avenue station. Your possible explanation explained that one. Oh well, as you said...

Quote...In any case, it doesn't sound like a serious problem, and unless people disagree, I don't think we're going to do anything further here.

Agreed, and thanks for the info and satisifying the curiousity of some one who often can't see the forest for the trees...

CaptCity

tylero · April 13, 2009, 01:17:22 PM

Quote from: z on April 12, 2009, 01:58:53 PM
Did you check the "Install the Menu Management Lot" on the following screen? This box is checked by default, and will hide all the icons until you plop the lot and run the game for a month.

i tried it with the MML and without

z · April 13, 2009, 01:48:15 PM

Could you please post a list of the files in your top-level RTMTV3 folder?

zombones · April 14, 2009, 12:07:43 AM

I have the newest NAM as well as this plugin, but no tram-cars appear to transfer the sims, how do I fix this?

z · April 14, 2009, 12:27:32 AM

Could you please be more specific? A picture of one of your stations, with routes shown by the Route Query Tool when clicked on one of these stations, would be very helpful as well.

pierreh · April 18, 2009, 01:49:43 AM

Is there a restriction to the placement of tram-in-avenue stations directly adjacent to track intersections? The reason of my question is the following experience:

In a first implementation of a tram network in a city I had a short section on an avenue, turning into a road. The next expansion consisted of replacing the avenue/road turn by a 'T' track intersection and laying more tracks on the avenue. I placed a tram/bus stop immediately adjacent to the T track intersection:

Following that implementation, automata coming from the bottom part of the avenue to continue straight would 'die' upon reaching the station. Automata turning right to the road would run OK. The station, and all further tracks and other stations on the avenue, reported zero usage.

I then moved the tram/bus station one tile away from the track intersection:

Automata ran normally through the station and on the new track section - one such tram can be seen coming from the avenue and turning left to the road. Usage of the new line is normal.

I have done some searching, but I did not find any warning that stations cannot be placed directly next to a track intersection. Is this the case, or was there something else in my first implementation, that was wrong?

z · April 18, 2009, 02:29:49 AM

Thanks for the very helpful pictures. You should be able to place the stations right next to the intersections; I do that all the time. I would suggest trying the three following tests:

1. Use the Path Query Tool and make sure that the paths look correct for the station placed in both positions. You'll have to let the game run for a few months before they're updated.

2. Try a non-RTMT station and see if you have the same problem.

3. Turn on the "drawpaths" cheat and verify that the paths look correct.

Please let me know what you find.

cogeo · April 18, 2009, 03:30:09 AM

Simple question, did you transit-enabled the station after plopping (dragging oneway road sections along)? This is a neccesary step for all stations with through-running networks. For GLR-in-Avenue stations this is needed even for 1-tile long stations like bus (-only) stops and subway (-only) stations. Could you please check again?

I had tried such placements in the past and had no problems.

The GLR-in-Avenue stations use the very same SC4Path file as the GLR-in-Avenue (straight tile) puzzle-pieces. Actually the use the same path, but reversed for the one direction. This is because in an older NAM version, the GLR-In-Avenue straight path file for the one direction had a small problem, ie one of the paths ended not exactly at 8.0 but instead at 7.98. This caused problems with the car automata. So I used the other path (which was OK), but reversed for the one directions. If you open any of the GLR-In-Avenue RTMT stations in LE yoy will see the purple arrows, reversed for the one direction.

I later checked some SC4Path files for some GLR-In-Avenue puzzle pieces, and found that quite a few of them had this problem, ie paths not terminated properly. I don't know if and how many of them were fixed. Someone could check the paths for the "T-GLR-Intersection w/ street" (

) - or what it's being called - specifically, to tell you if there's really a problem with it.