Modders Beware ...

[Colyn]

Tonight I stumbled onto a thread here on SC4D ... Photo Critiques

As I watched the images unfold on my screen and read the posters' comments about the various shots I felt a sharp pain ... a concern for these dedicated and committed SC4D fans. They spend hours and hours lovingly building the cities ... they all call it "My city" and the pride in their creations are clear.

Now let me explain something right here and now ... the main reason for me leaving my previous SC4 life behind was because the exchange got more and more flooded by real rubbish ... not only were the quality of some BATS really rediculously bad but a new generation of modders appeared on the scene that did not care one single bit for the innocent users of that exchange. They deliberately modded some lots to be destructive to other lots and they did not care whether a lot actually crashed a city.

Now try and imagine the horror of any one of my featured players if they should download an item .... install it ... place it and BAM the city crash and it cannot be reopened again.

This post is in no way meant to invite a debate over the rights or wrongs nor is it intended to defame or badmouth anybody ... this post is primarily meant to tell all of you why I am what I am and why I have ZERO TOLLERANCE for badly modded custom content. Yes I agree ... people must learn .... but for sure they better make sure their modded stuff works before they unleash it on an unsuspecting community.

The BSC has always prided themselves in the quality and technical integrity of their creations and that was never compromised ... now here on SC4D we have an Exchange that is controlled by people that will not allow rubbish to find it's way into the users plugins.

Now that is my story for tonight and here are some reminders of what can be placed at risk by a badly modded lot.

Giligone



Marczar



Mulefisk



Meinhosen



Shadow Assassin




PS ... if you disagree with me ... say so in a civilised way ... if you want to attack my view of the mentioned exchange ... dont do it here because you will get into trouble.

[vester]

Hey Colyn

I total agree with you, but could please explain the pictures. They makes me a little puzzled, a little confused.
Is there some of lots badly modded or is it cities that could be ruined by the badly modded lots ?

[Colyn]

No .... the pictures here are displayed to show how much work and love some citybuilders put into their work and I will not like to be the reason for one of those cities crashing.

[sandrasim1]

I agree completely with your post. I have seen a few great CJ's on ST where some of the cities were corrupted for different reasons and the uploaders were in a state of dispair because they were lost forever...our aim to is to keep this site free from stuff that will spoil anyone's game...and thanks for posting those pics...I know what I will be doing tomorrow.

[jplumbley]

Agreed 1000%!!

I would never want one of those amazing creations go down the drain because of one bad modded lot.  I have had it happen to me when I first started downloading custom content and it almost made me entirely quit playing the game forever.

[jeronij]

I just can totally agree with that. Perfectly said 

( and thanks for the short selection of relaxing pictures.... )

[mjig_dudy]

I, of course, fully agree that bad modded Lot's should be kept out. It will keep the LEX a place where users can know they are downloading high quality Lots, which wont cause their games any problems.

I have, however, one question:
However, what counts as a badly modded Lot? Obviously those that crash the game and ruin cities, should, under know means be allowed on the LEX. But what about Cheater LOTs? which are specifically made to change the way the game behaves, are these also going to kept out, as they could ruin a city if used without care, or are you going to allow these so long as they come with the appropriate warnings.

I have taken account of this

This post is in no way meant to invite a debate over the rights or wrongs

And i hope this post is not inviting this debate by asking this question, and in no way was it meant to do this.

[callagrafx]

As I understand it, cheater LOTs are fine as long as the player knows what the effects will be...My interpretation of Colyn's post is that any LOT that deliberately distorts the gameplay in favour of that LOT and others like it (generally called "weeds" for obvious reasons) is unacceptable...also buildings that are designed to grow outside of their normal stage is bad modding and smacks of vanity.

[Glenni]

Well i do sort of agree with you, i don't think you should go so hard on people though, they do this voluntary , and not all people know how to mod lots nor have to time to mod them to utter perfectness.

And if  it is BLaM you are referring to as "that new generation of modders" , just let me make this clear, yes i know we were rather sloppy on some stats like garbage or power or whatever, but as far as i've seen, none of our lots actually crashed the game.

[jeronij]

Glenni, the starting post mentions specifically those new modders who

deliberately modded some lots to be destructive to other lots and they did not care whether a lot actually crashed a city

Of course, one must learn to mod step by step. the more you mod, the more you learn how to do it right. What we will not accept here are these intentionally badly modded lots.

mjig_dudy, I dont think Cheater lots can be considered included in this context if they explicity and clearly explain what their effects are, and how to properly use them.

[Glenni]

Yes, that's what i think too,and actually some of the releases were modded by me, not that i couldn't find any available, but i felt i wanted to learn how to mod by myself, i know it was rather stupidly done by me now, but hey, youu gotta learn by trail and error

[jeronij]

Of course trial and error is many times necessary. But it will arrive the day that you will be able to mod the game the way you want without trial and error  . And you have all our support for that to happen 

[jplumbley]

Glenni... I think the thing they are most worried about is the people that upload content without actually testing it in their own game first.  The noob modder, will most of the time made their own lots for their own personall uses and then after playing with the lot upload it.  They may not have the best stats but they are atleast usable.  When someone uploads alot that they havent even tested once, and it crashes the game is what the worry is.  Also, cheater lots with no warnings about what it is or does.

[Colyn]

Cheater lots do have a place in the game ... so does cheater mods ... we all kno wthe Garbage system was broken from the start so we made lots to compensate for it and some even made lots that discards the garbage system completely ... like PEG's Over Side dumping site ... I have no issues with those things.

The money side is another example ... here we dealt with slightly wobbly section of the game and the advent of the custom lots and BAT broke the money side completely. Today most people use one or other money cheat because most players likes the building and terraforming and cares nothing for the finances.

On the LEX lots will contain WARNINGS if they do contain gameplay changes.

Glenni ... we know people need to learn ... what we say is this ... on SC4D you are surrounded by a wealth of knowledge and experience and all you need to do is to ask for advice and it will be there ... that is how you learn ... you dont learn by releasing "half baked" stuff ... you learn by asking and applying the answers and testing and more testing and then you release.

We are working on opening a LEX Apprentice feature where young modders' creations will be made available with the correct documentation and information and then users can use it and hopefully comment ... once a creator has reached a certain number of sucessfull releases without serious bugs and a number of downloads achieved ... the Apprentice will graduate and his or her creations will be moved to his own NAME ... this will happen withoutthe loss of any download counts and a new LEX graduate can then manage his own lots and have UPLOADER status.

This is what we are planning to do to help the yongsters or new modders and lotters to get their creations out but at the same time feel comfortable that they are delivering quality to the users.

[Cali]

i agree with this post. though i am not a modder(and there are reasons why.) i have in the past downloaded stuff
that had caused my game to go awry. this was something that defininetly<-how do you spell this) needed to be addressed.

[jplumbley]

Colyn.... I really like that idea of apprenticeship!!  That will encourage the growth of the comminuty through newer members learning from the veterans.  Very good for the community!!

[Colyn]

Yes JP ... the key lies in this ...

... newer members learning from the veterans. 

What must be clearly stated is that the "veterans" are usually very willing to help but when "learners" get cheeky or arrogant or upset when taught ... then the veterans loose interest in that learner. What we will not allow here is for "veterans" to be ridivuled by learners and what we really want to see is for learners to respect the knowledge pool and help expand it and record it for future new comers.

@ Glenni .... please do not mention Teams and past issues from other sites. SC4D has a strict ZERO TOLLERANCE policy for "offsite" issues and it will be enforced. What happens offsite is no concern of us. Mistakes in the past should not be repeated here ... let us all work together and make the Game better.

PS ... also dont feel bad about your past releases ... see it as an experience and try not to make the same mistakes again. We all had to learn how to do this modding thing 

[BarbyW]

Those of us who are the "veterans" are more than willing to help with modding and I am sure the BAT "veterans" will help with those apsects too. All you have to do is ask.

[sandrasim1]

I have been lucky to be surrounded by some of the best people in the community while I grew from just being a tester in the team to becoming a lotter, a modder and a batter. I have watched and learned from my colleagues and it has been a great way to learn the trade. Many of those people are here today so take use of our knowledge and just ask if you have any problems.

[Glenni]

oh btw , will you still be keeping a look on those texture indexes and such? Because indisguise/tolomar is bugging me alot about it in chat now and it's getting really anoying with her blaming me for why you left st...