Some of you might already have seen this but I´ve decided to post it in these forums aswell since I think you get better help than on other websites.
I've decided to make a SC4 model of the old city palace of my hometown Berlin. The building has been destroyed in WW2 and will probably be rebuilt.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi106.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm266%2Fandi204%2F0102010005000.jpg&hash=f22fd93ebeb67d26bf9ef53ea731704e1ca2c02a)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi106.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm266%2Fandi204%2Fstadtschloss-berlinpropertyposter.jpg&hash=f9efe78420cbca1fb581af3f2c442b16787f52cd)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi106.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm266%2Fandi204%2FBild018.jpg&hash=a80e38fed9d4a286c01b7e348ed2aee1402338ef)
This is what I've got so far:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi106.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm266%2Fandi204%2Fs3.jpg&hash=2676f522bc83b5554730771b5d4f14c998b5176d)
(It's the red lighted wall)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi106.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm266%2Fandi204%2FGrundriss20Stadtschloss.jpg&hash=d201e38ee623c262a9e0d939431d33c8ca6c1813)
The batting itself will take years I think since I've started with the uncomplicated part but sometimes am desperated yet.
I need most help in the textures I think. So if anyone of you owns some textures I might need ... please give them to me : )
Of course I am also very happy about any helping advices / suggestions and so on.
Wow, that's quite a project. I'm so glad someone's making it, it will go great with my Dom ;) But it is a pretty large building, so I hope you've got enough patience :D
What you've got so far looks very promising, nice attention to detail and the textures are good. The only thing I'd critisize is the windows, which look a bit squashed and are too superficial, move them a tad more into the wall and a little z-axis stretching should make them look better.
If you need any help or have any questions don't hesitate to ask, and good luck :thumbsup:
Hehe
yeah I do also hope that I've got enough patience. But the building is quite varied so I hope the work won't become boring.
When you talk about the windows do you mean just the windows themselves or also the frameworks at the outter wall?
I've tried to follow your advices anyways and I think that they indeed to look better now. Thanks for that ; )
(the windows within the red circle are re-done)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi106.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm266%2Fandi204%2Fs-1.jpg&hash=ea484b66988a8f5913a74989dd798d8e065d2c2c)
I've also thought about changing the windows' colours into something less blue and more into the grey-direction.
Thanks for you post and help.
;D WOW. this is amazing.
Have you also considered the scale issue that DebussyMan mentioned before? If you have so, ignore the following lines (I don't know how the Berliner Stadtschloss looked like). :D
If you don't strech the building along the z-axis, it will look jolted (auf gut deutsch - es schaut reichlich eingedepscht aus ;D):
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg233.imageshack.us%2Fimg233%2F4369%2Fbatversuch5bkd2.jpg&hash=ed40148e9047735f410d972385ac2b1392d354ac)
After streching (1 became 1.33):
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg292.imageshack.us%2Fimg292%2F8852%2Fprobe8alv8.jpg&hash=bbfa634fd97abd02ba0d7b3df1f07dcf01c0ffec)
Btw: The new windows look much better. ;)
baconrocky: HrHr. Thanks
N1_2888: Actually I did so ^^ but really just the windows themselves without the frameworks.
Shall I scretch them aswell?!
Btw. What town do you come from ?
As I don't know whether your English skills are even worse than mine ( ;D ), I'll try to tell you in German:
Du musst das
ganze Gebäude mit all seinen Bestandteilen in der z-Dimension (Höhe) dehnen, damit es im Spiel nicht gestaucht wirkt. Das gilt insbesonders für niedrige Gebäude älteren Baudatums (wie auch dein Schloss), bei anderen ist u.U. ein anderer "Dehnungsfaktor" oder überhaupt keine Änderung notwendig.
Mit der Tatsache, dass du die Fenster nun etwas weiter nach innen gerückt hast, hat das jetzt nicht direkt was zu tun. ;)
[Schleichwerbung]Für kompetente Hilfe in deutscher Sprache möchte ich dir das SimForum (http://www.simforum.de/forumdisplay.php?f=18) ans Herz legen.[/Schleichwerbung] :D
Let me switch to English again. I wrote about the streching issue and gave aNdi a kind of hint, that he can also ask in the "SimForum" to get help in German.
Quote from: aNdi on June 23, 2008, 12:59:23 AM
What town do you come from ?
Vienna.
This is really great work! And an enourmous task.
And if Batting will cost so much time, how many years do they think they need to rebuilt it in reality? I think it's nonsense....
Besides that: the Stadtschloss was not destroyed in WW2. It was, of course, hit by bombs and fire, but it was in a surprisingly good state.
The building was demolished by our good old DDR-comrades. I think somewhere in 1952. The only part they preserved was the facade with the balcony from which Karl Liebknecht announced the socialist/spartakist revolution in 1918.
N1_2888: Ah ok, verstehe. Werd's mal ausprobieren. ^^ Werde dann ein vorher-nachher-Vergleich präsentieren : P
FrankU´: Thank you! First plans want the palace to be done in 2015. But I think it will happen later since the demolition of the Palast der Republik takes so unbelievable long.
Btw. I know that the building as a whole has not been destroyed in WW2 and that the demolition of the ruins took place in 1950 but if you take a look at the ruins of the palace you will not say anymore that the building has not been destroyed in WW2. there was nothing left to save but some stones.
aNdi, this is an enormous undertaking, and I will be keeping close eyes on this! &apls
Quote from: RippleJet on June 23, 2008, 10:34:30 AM
aNdi, this is an enormous undertaking, and I will be keeping close eyes on this! &apls
concur with Tage! this gonna be gorgeous can't wait to see how it turns :)
hay guys
i´m sorry i did not make an update for that long but i was busy with applications for university and for a job.
but here i have a picture of the building with all windows re-done
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi106.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm266%2Fandi204%2F1-51.jpg&hash=7bbd1a82256ea0d018e1335768f79b52bf376d0b)
i will try to bat harder and especially more now ;)
see you soon
and thanks for your posts
It really made an improvement, hope to see more work on this soon ;D
That's a good and ambitious project ! Even if I'm complelty against the real project of rebuilding it, that doesn't avoid me to looking forward your job !
Wonderful project Andi, you're doing a great job on both the textures and the details &apls
Das ist sehr gut! Ich verpasse deine BATs. MSG war guten auch. Ich will diese jetzt!! (Mein deutsch ist schlecht ich weisse, aber es ist nicht schlecht fur einge ein wer gelernen aliene ja?)
Anyways good job man!
Whats the update on this? I am dying for it in my city!!
They looks wonderful, very European. :thumbsup:
So very beautiful bat!But i have an idea for you...It's possible to put sidewalk like the other bat as Porki's bat or Ferox bat's....To made a pedestrian city?
Wonderful work. Hope you scale up the height, (just) before releasing this.
AnDi looking real good here and I hope to see more progress soon... &apls
wow great work. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: I hope you are faster with the BAT then the real remake of the Stadtschloss. :) Denn ich will das Schloss schon vorher in SimCity haben. :D ;) Did you think about it to do a W2W building with the work you had done ()what() It would be a great addition for great european buildings.
Yes my english isn't realy good but I hope you understand what I mean.
Your English is good enough!
I am also curious what teh Stadtschloss is going to be.
If you ever feel like BATting existing buildings from Berlin I would suggest:
1 Altes Museum
2 Friedrichswerdersche Kirche
3 Neue Wache
4 Komische Oper
5 churches at the Gendarmenmarkt
6 Schloss Sanssouci
7 Neue Nastionalgalerie
8 Philharmonie
- OK, let me stop here....
You guessed right: Berlin is my favourite city abroad.
I consider the nrs 1, 7 and 8 as part of the top 50 buildings in Europe.
Woaw! It's very nice :thumbsup:
very good project aNdi :thumbsup: and very nice start &apls
Nicely done so far aNdi! &apls
Good luck with your applications btw. :)
Wow :o just fantastic &apls
Hi andi,
what a nice BAT! &apls I'm happy, that someone is doing this great palace, that was destroyed by a member of idiots. I can't wait to see the buliding complete ;). Great work :thumbsup:
saludos
peterycristi
Hey guys
first of all I'm so sorry that I did not update for so long but university really took most of my free time
but reading your posts really make me ambitious(<<<???) again
so thank you very much :)
FrankU: Hehe, I've even once started to make a model of the Werdersche Kirche but it was years ago and it looked ugly in the end ^^
but I really hope I will be able to BAT more of the elder berlin stuff
here's what I have done that far. I hope you like the update :)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi106.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm266%2Fandi204%2Fu1-1.jpg&hash=075b251e5b28259e0a1c4ab945a7097e56800947)
(red: completed, green: the things that are going to be next)
and the original it looked like this:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi106.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm266%2Fandi204%2Fn10.jpg&hash=36279422effe90f37c0fa21b5d84bdf21dbd1a8e)
and here's my model:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi106.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm266%2Fandi204%2Fn3-2.jpg&hash=7c12b654e99492513300b1b2098059f459ed6b0b)(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi106.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm266%2Fandi204%2Fn2-3.jpg&hash=84fd2bba2af93f7332445292b56f56b279f53ecc)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi106.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm266%2Fandi204%2Fn5-1.jpg&hash=103ad14903757b74c7195d852e558a7cc8379db3)(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi106.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm266%2Fandi204%2Fn4-1.jpg&hash=b675934e7c477123bca4ad74103464a84f24f342)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi106.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm266%2Fandi204%2Fn6.jpg&hash=731306cbbbaf136e1cd957254d510a96d00059ee)(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi106.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm266%2Fandi204%2Fn7.jpg&hash=b11a190b111032548536042bc3dc72e54014b569)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi106.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm266%2Fandi204%2Fn8.jpg&hash=51c7a288ded445360ba7ca00bf547a7fe320f3e1)(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi106.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm266%2Fandi204%2Fn9.jpg&hash=e0f3dfa467a4b28a881a8688ddcb3a0462fe62c8)
btw
if you have any tips on creating statues... pleeeeeeaaaaase let me know ^^ I know to model statues but I have no idea how to, at least my last tries always ended in chaos and agression ;)
Oh MY GOD!!!!!!
Your creations are just FABULOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Keep Up the EXCELLENT WORK!!!! Congratulations!!!
You DO know that you are completely crazy, do you? (and with completely crazy I mean completely crazy like me! ;D )
aNdi welcome back from RL and its great to see some wonderful progress here!!!
JJsa: Thank you very much ^^
Nardo69: Indeed I do know that ;D Aber wer nichts wagt, der nichts gewinnt!
Pat: Thank you, also for you welcome back wishes ;) I really kind of missed this whole stuff here
Whatever
As I said I really need help with the statues, in the model I've simply put some grey boxes as "place holders" but I hope that sooner or later I will replace them by statues, as the original building had
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi106.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm266%2Fandi204%2F2-60.jpg&hash=d5e012e5a9b58b0249f72300df128b88ff89c212)(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi106.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm266%2Fandi204%2F1-66.jpg&hash=a04cba818ef6c921a14945b80e434ab9eeefa975)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi106.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm266%2Fandi204%2F3-54.jpg&hash=b1649e68051d6ef1c6805e50ad39917fcda10725)
(red: completed ( if you don't take the missing statues into account), green: next)
So this is what I want to model next, the "north front"
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi106.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm266%2Fandi204%2F4-49.jpg&hash=aeb9e3e14d838448cb8e368d3405b14e8ee4fb22)
are all the sections going to be released as stand alone models, as they certainly warrant it seeing their quality...
I think I swallowed my tongue and my eyeballs jumped from my sockets, these are BEAUTIFUL! wow, I am crossing my fingers that I will one day be able to use these in my city. Awesome skills. :)
You can't imagine how happy I am to see you're back in business!. So far it looks excellent. :thumbsup:
About the statues, there are many ways for making them. The easiest one is using primitives (cylinders, spheres, etc) and arranging them accordingly. It looks terrible up close, but from far away the result is very good. Another one is using poser to make them, but it requieres 3ds max. In any case, I've found that it's not worth the trouble of making them as they will look almost the same from the SC4 angle, so usually I download generic statues from sites like http://archidom.net and modify them according to my needs if necesary.
BTW, I have a few elevations of the front, side and rear facades of the palace, in case you are interested.
mightygoose : hmm I'm not sure yet. I think that the package, if you would put all models together, would be far too large. I also need to render them seperately because I have no compter that could handle such a large model.
baconrocky : Hehe, Thanks a lot :) I also wondered if I should release on of these buildings as kind of "teaser" to point the people's attention to it ;) so maybe you will be able to use your fingers again sooner than you think
debussyman: Thanks a lot ^^ this site looks really promising, I will try it out immediately, if it won't work I guess I will have to try to the primitives-way *sigh* ^^
elevations? what excactly do you mean with elevations? but if you want to model something realistic you never can enough enough materiel so I'd be glad to see what you've got :)
Edit2:
debussyman: Gmax cannot open the files I did download from that site :\ I do see the content in the preview-window but the opening always fails
today I've started modelling the first section of northern wall
here's what I have got that far
not really the way I imagined it though
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi106.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm266%2Fandi204%2F5-46.jpg&hash=679dd94428b5b3e828a66e4c7aa1356093e21d33)
(red: the section I've modelled)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi106.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm266%2Fandi204%2F3-55.jpg&hash=483f3290e66502de8191a2457a1a85e202ac37eb)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi106.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm266%2Fandi204%2F4-50.jpg&hash=cbbd682579177893ce1ed1af607eccf75431399a)
the windows' frames of the original palace were brown, but I've decided to make them brighter because the brown ones made look the building far too dark:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi106.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm266%2Fandi204%2F1-67.jpg&hash=b6a9132bf154e0c66c396b55aeb08b63b9663818)
What do you guys think about the colours? people tend to think that the palace was a grey box but it definitely wasn't. it was quite colourful and I've tried to put this into the model.
I think I will have to work on them though, as well as on the model itself, some parts of the sections aren't completely sacrificing me ^^
EDIT:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi106.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm266%2Fandi204%2Fn-1.jpg&hash=de839dfc756be3ac1f36e81539670379cc48a944)
I think that's a little bit better
These are the elevations I have:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg11.imageshack.us%2Fimg11%2F5247%2Fbsch2.jpg&hash=00d2a21621bbfe853770ddea981954f06c4297ee)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg15.imageshack.us%2Fimg15%2F6120%2Fbsch3.jpg&hash=4ec6e74b48cc637766740a1de922b9949ea73232)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg11.imageshack.us%2Fimg11%2F6287%2Fbsch1.jpg&hash=b2384732ec51946ae42164f760c55e088919b9f2)
wow
they will help a lot :) thank you very much, finally a good drawing ^^
This is a great project &apls
I even saved it to my favourites month ago, i was quit sad that the project was on hold, but now I'm even happier to see this project going on &apls :thumbsup:
As to the colours, I have never seen a colour-photo of the Berliner Stadtschloss, only paintings.
Most likely you knew that, but you could have a look on the Staatsratsgebäude, in which a portal of the Stadtschloss is integrated to:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiegel.de%2Fimg%2F0%2C1020%2C92395%2C00.jpg&hash=5ff40fa39f04f42da7cd6b0b550b1b342dfad827)
It probably didn't help you, but I was just here to say how great I think this is already anyway.
Keep it up,
Fabian
fabian: hehe, I'm sorry that I made you sad ;) But real-life really got me freaking
according to the colours, that's excactly the problem I've got. I can't find any coloured photos of the palace. so that I can't even say whether the whole palace did look like this portal at the staatsratsgebäude does look today.
the choice of colours I made because of the models of the palace I have seen and they always were quite colourful. I try to make my version look a bit more realistic and dirty ( I mean hey, it's an old building :P )
I think I will keep the colours as they are now, make one portal and then work them out again. I wouldnt make sense to spend a million hours in the colours just to see the difference between certain sections^^
but thank you that you made me wonder about this important theme ;)
wow...awesome work mate....these would loke nice as a stand alone bats too......anyway good to see you back
There's a view at 2:23 on this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwO30VlJscY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwO30VlJscY)which shows it rather dull looking, but I've also seen many models which show it as a mix of stone and yellow plaster. Even more, the visualization projects for the rebuilding show it with colour:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F6%2F69%2FBerliner_Schloss_Panorama.jpg&hash=987d3e13a17912ce5982629be3d447b1dfd1a2eb)
delija21 : Thank you very much :) I guess I really have to publish them as stand-alone aswell, huh?! ^^
debussyman: WOw, I don't even know that picture, it's great :) Yeah, according to the dirt I think that It's really a matter of time. in the 1930's these parts of the palace were like 250 years old so I guess that the colourful version is the original one and the colours just turned into grey because of the traffic and so on...
thank you so much for your help :)
I've played a bit with the textures and added models of the other two buildings that are done already so that you have a comparison of size
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi106.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm266%2Fandi204%2F1-68.jpg&hash=2dea78c19b87b63e0e109be7f107eabb1c000290)
if I will keep that size the final model will have a size of about
14x18 :S
uff
I guess I will have to reduce its size a little bit
Quote from: aNdi on April 27, 2009, 08:10:13 AM
if I will keep that size the final model will have a size of about
14x18 :S
uff
I guess I will have to reduce its size a little bit
Yes, the current size is definatly a little over the top. But be careful with the rescaling. It is easy to underestimate the dimensions.. Best is to do it as the very final step of creating the model. If you're after an accurate recreation of the old Schloss, it should take 10x13 or 11x14 in the end.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ld-host.de%2Fuploads%2Fthumbnails%2Fe4b5c0165366134e1c9d95c0eea4e0e9.jpg&hash=6f78cab7eaca4125499e1a378aa47bfd6233e1de) (http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/e4b5c0165366134e1c9d95c0eea4e0e9.jpg)
(The numbers on the left and to the bottom are exact, certain values, the one in the top and in the right estimations)
Oh and of course it's good too see you back at this big project. You're progressing quite well and I'm looking forward to more!
thanks for your post :) It's good to see a well known face
I didn't rescale it yet, as you said, this might create more problems than it solves, so I wanted to wait until the model itself is done and then check out what it looks like
10x13 or 11x14 seems to be quite realistic though, and even about the realations I do have now, but we'll see what it turns to in the end :)
what do you think about the colours/textures ? I'm quite happy with the results, except the... Fensterbänke ( sorry, the english world does not come into my mind... "window benches"? ^^)
ps: thanks for the scales ;)
"Window benches"!? Meh, that translation hurts! :D
What you mean are (window) ledges/sills ;)
About the colours/textures... Hard to say much, it would be easier if seen over the whole model. Yet I'll give it a try: Your textures seem quite okay to me, but be careful not to let them become repetitive (would also something for me to work on in the end). But I'm not too sure about the yellow tones. They look a tad to dull and old which wouldn't resemble the grandeur of the building they are attached to. They look cold, lacking "warmth". They are rather heading towards some kind of green but I think it should be a more orange tone in it. Maybe you can have a look at my Schloss Charlottenburg colours and see what I mean.
To keep the grey stone on the windows' ledges on the ground and first floor looks suitable to me, but you're kinda right, there's something odd about the ledges. I think it comes from the upper two floors where they are textured with a strange, very bight yellow which you should substitute for something better-fitting. For that you might consider a similar texture to the darker yellow you used to frame the wall into its sections.
If you think I could be a little more a helper with German, you are free to contact me on MSN (I think we have eachother in our contacts?) or ICQ :)
more fantastic work, great progress
hey guys, good news
I'll post another update tomorrow (I fixed the statue-isse ;) thank to all who helped)
and I just wanted to share this with you
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg177.imageshack.us%2Fimg177%2F6741%2Fdghh.th.jpg&hash=1768d1bf65de55d4fa5a17bfafb8bc7d37869eb8) (http://img177.imageshack.us/i/dghh.jpg/)
I can't wait until this becomes reality ;D
and I also can recommend to you this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAlqzuc6HgE&feature=channel_page
(at the end you'll see moved pictures of what the new palace will look like in 2015)
source:
http://berliner-schloss.de/de/Neues-Schloss-Humboldt-Forum/Neue-Bilder-Berlin-2015-.htm
Thank god! I was starting to worry &mmm
Can't wait to see when they finish it either! (I've got start saving for a trip to Berlin in 2015 just to take a look at it) ::)
Quote from: DebussyMan on September 04, 2009, 02:00:41 PM
(I've got start saving for a trip to Berlin in 2015 just to take a look at it) ::)
I hope this time you'll give me a hint for when you are travelling before being here instead of afterwards. ::) $%Grinno$%
Got six years to confirm, so I think I'll be able to give you a heads up with some anticipation :D
Omigosh! It's great to see that this building will make it into SimCity 4 as a beautiful BAT, but it's even better to learn that it may be rebuilt in reality. Bit by bit, the lost classic grandeur of Old Berlin is coming back.
hehe DebussyMan, wanna see what your modeled buildings look like in reality?
believe me, your models do suite them very well :D
Odainsaker: hehe excactly. there are some further buildings of old berlin that are going to be rebuilt, as the old Bauakademie by Schinkel for instance:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spreeinsel.de%2Fimages%2F1_ort%2Fverbaende%2FDigi_Modell_N-W-Fassade.gif&hash=7be92cda362c0c187082998c25561ea9ba62d453)
whatever, this is what I've got to show this far:
the gate that connects the two inner courts ... with statues finally ;)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg205.imageshack.us%2Fimg205%2F8457%2F80254277.jpg&hash=de43d8278eaf510672decc09e2fcd5ff361b05a8)
and I made this for you so that you can imagine the dimension of the whole building
the size of the preview is quite much the size of the final model (in the game about 11x14 titles large)
I hade to scale down the buildings to make them fit the ground plan, and still they're too tall ...^^
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg297.imageshack.us%2Fimg297%2F1907%2F18262076.jpg&hash=992448b2b57df007e700a542545ec5ee66a49c85)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg297.imageshack.us%2Fimg297%2F1886%2F24479988.jpg&hash=651e2bc49c8dc95bce4a68973029dd4cdbc62fd5)
nice work :)
hehe, thanks ;)
I've been woking on the red walls...
and i was quite surprised that it doesn't even look too bad in the renderings :D
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg34.imageshack.us%2Fimg34%2F7573%2F93197189.jpg&hash=4113cc3483005d49172c4899e89697f3b002f71d)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg34.imageshack.us%2Fimg34%2F7538%2F17757163.jpg&hash=38621f5eec4fa57ec441d4a4e95c51be6ec59ecb)
Looks very nice! I can already imagine how the inner court will look when complete :thumbsup:
Impressive, just impressive, when you see there was at least of it, it's impressive &apls &apls &apls
Guillaume :thumbsup:
Fantastic work here, it is such a huge project, no wonder it takes some time.
thank you very much ;)
I've done a little more today and finished the walls, now it's the roof to be done "$Deal"$
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg142.imageshack.us%2Fimg142%2F9293%2F66889444.jpg&hash=545ae523638f5ff24f94330543679894deddd2f8)
nice progress :)
Quote from: kwakelaar on September 06, 2009, 05:47:56 AM
Fantastic work here, it is such a huge project, no wonder it takes some time.
Well, it took the Hohenzollerns about 600 years to build the original, so aNdi is making quite some speed here.
That is also the reason why I ask myself what they really are going to rebuild. There are surely no exact plans of the original, with all the details. So there will be a lot of contemporary interpretation. This means it won't be a rebuild; it will be an interpretation of the remaining memories of the original. And that is something completely different.
In my opinion it would have been wiser to try to live with the loss and go on with new developments in Berlin. Why tear down the Palast der Republik, which was completely in tact and rebuild some destroyed building?
Of course it is without doubt that they shouldn't have destroyed the Hohenzollernpalast in the first place, but that is what has happenend. We cannot deny nor erase this fact by building something that looks like something that has been there.
And something else: why destroy the Palast der Republik. Because it is ugly? In that case I can show you a lot of ugly housing in and around Berlin. Are they going to destroy that also? We cannot and must not erase the DDR history. It is there. We need to live with it.
3 of the 4 outter walls will look excactly like the original palace, there are enough pictures and videos of the old palace, even in colour, so that we even know what the colour-sheme was and what the palace looked like and yes, there are excact plans of the palace with all details.
Thanks to the Prussian sense of order. :thumbsup:
These plans do just exist for the new parts of the palace though, and these are the only parts that are going to be rebuilt. the inner wing and the parts facing the Spree-river will be replaced by mordern architecture as you can see here:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.art-magazin.de%2Fasset%2FImage%2FARCHITEKTUR%2FBerlin-stadtschloss2%2Fstadtschloss-detail-1_ar.jpg&hash=00c414e3922747900aff2269223fe19f41aa1416)
As for the Palast der Repulik:
It's definitely a question of taste. But beside of that it's a fact that the whole building was full of asbestos and had to be torn down.
I am happy that the historical site of the island got rid of that (in my opinion) ugly building. If you lived in Berlin you would maybe have another opinion about this. ;)
Nobody can tell what the neighbourhood will look like with the palace, so all we can do is waiting until 2015 and make a final descision then. ;D
But you cannot compare the Palast der Republik to districts as Marzahn or Hellersdorf.
Of course this doesn't seem to be a nice place to live but these buildings are still used as important place to live. In those districts do live more people than in a whole middle-sized city.
Another aspect is that these "housings" don't belong to the senate or federation, they do belong to private people or organisations while the Palast der Republik and the ground it was constructed on belongs to the government. So the government doesn't have any power to demolish these not-so-nice buildings in and outside of Berlin.
But as I already said it's all a matter of taste. You might think it's senseless, I do think that it's an important step Berlin is making into the right direction.
aNdi,
I must confess that I am not informed about the exact plans as such. Thanks for the information about the project. And sure, in real life there are lots of problems that we do not need to solve in this forum, like ownership of high rise buildings etc...
But I actually did live in Berlin for several years. I have also visited it moreoften. I even have roots there: my grandmother grew up in Neukölln and her sister still lives there.
My point was about this:
The Palast der Republik was torn down. It was said because of the asbestos. We all know that there are lots of buildings that were full of asbestos and that were cleaned instead of torn down.
I think the buildig was torn down because Berlin wanted to erase the DDR regime. And I think that was not a good idea. It is not a question of taste. The PdR was a symbol of a 40 years long reign of USSR and SED suppression. Surely emotions were negative about this. So maybe we should see this tearing down as the Berlin version of the tumbling down of Saddam Husseins statue in Baghdad....
On the other hand I always thought it would be nice to keep the PdR and re-use it as a parliament for the Bundesland Berlin or something. Or a congress center. Something very democratic would be best. Then Berlin would have a remembrance on the DDR, but with a good contemporary function.
And now the Schloss: I think it is not good to rebuild something that has been removed. It is false history. No doubt that the Hohenzollernpalast was an interesting building and I condemned the destroyers the day I heard about it, but that was history already then. I think it is wiser to go on. Keep the existing mouments in shape, because they are essential for our historic awareness, and build new buildings with contemporary meterials and for contemporary functions.
Did you note that I did not say anything about the beauty of the PdR? It is always partly a question of taste, but there is much more than taste to it.
And now finally to your project:
I think it is huge. I think SC4 is the ideal place to contruct or reconstruct anything anyone wants. And it is a huge task that you laid upon yourself. And I cannot really measure how much you still have to do. But I think you are brave and I hope you will be able to finish the project before 2015!
And I would definitely place your Schloss on a very important location in my cities. Probably facing the Rotes Rathaus, the Fernsehturm, the Wilhelminische Dom and the Palast der Republik which, as you surely know, still exists in SC4. The only thing I will miss then is the Altes Museum by Schinkel... That would be my request for BATters who are looking for a new project.
Why should we "erase the DDR regime"? We Germans had an even worse regime... the regime of the so called 3rd Reich from 1933 - 1945.
The German government uses a few old 3rd Reich buildings as ministries.
For example:
The Federal Ministry of Labour and Social Affairs is located in the former Ministry of Public Enlightenment and Propaganda...
The Federal Ministry of Finance is located in the former Reich Air Ministry building...
and so on
And then again, a lot of old buildings have been rebuilt (recently) and will be rebuild. Like the Kommandantur, which was rebuilt around 2000(?) or other great pre-war buildings.
It's great to see these old buildings appearing again.
And the Schloss matches better with the surroundings (Lustgarten, Altes Museum etc.)
Sorry for that little intervention,
Fabian
Hi aNdi ,
Nothing useful to add to the controversy .... I simply think that's a beautiful & impressive project , as in real life than in your hands . :thumbsup:
&apls
Cédric.
As i told you before its a really great project you are doing here! Go on batting, i can't wait until its finished! :thumbsup:
about the controvery:
why there always needs to be a discussion about berlin architecture? Every other city had the chance to be fine again after the war. Just Berlin was destroyed, captured and devided for over fourty years and never had the chance to find it's self again. Now Berlin is free after a long period. Why people can't let that city be fine again? Why everywhere in the city we should keep ugly rest of the 20th century history? Anyway it's impossible to erase the burned in signs of DDR and third Reich, so why the city can't be beautifull again at least at it's main places? I really think this poor city, that even doesn't know it's own identity yet, was injured and raped enough. Just stop discussing and let it just be fine again.
saludos
Peter
Ohhh, I think I hit some people on the head with my comments. :(
Please let me try to be clear.
1. Berlin is one of the cities I love most on this earth.
2. The history of the city, the injuries it has gotten, the division and the reunion, the destruction of beauty, but also of ugliness, and the construction of beauty and ugliness. They are all part of the history, the character and the unique quality of this city.
3. Every civilization, every country and every city, even every person, needs to consider and reconsider its history and needs to think about how to act on it and how to go on. German history is a very heavy load. I think the German people has taken the right road.
4. And now on buildings. I think that rebuilding of something that has been destroyed is not the right thing to do. In the first place because the reconstruction will never be exact. It is, in best case, a visual replica. Although I must say that there are some really stunning reconstructions (partly done under the DDR regime).
But I think it is false history. In my opinion it is good to keep a building alive and working as long as it has value and is still there (even if it is .ncomplete). But when it is not there anymore, you can never get it back. I think it is then wiser to build something that is new, with maybe the use of parts of the old. It might somehow be an interpretation of the old.
5. You can never really repair something that has been injured in the way Berlin has been injured. If only for the question: What is the "original state" that we want to reconstruct? A building that has been designed at one moment and is built the way it was designed: that is possible, But something that has been fooled around with, that has been altered, extended, added to, changed, repainted etc, what is the original state of it? What should we rebuild? And a city: you relly don't want Berlin to be rebuilt like it was in, say 1920. Who would want to live in the Hinterhöfe? Do your really want the pollution back Berlin had in these days?
OK, this is getting really off topic.
As said before: aNdi: a great task, and you are doing well! I will definitely put your Schloss on a beautiful place.
hi people :P
any new about andi's Berliner Stadtschloss??
i realy love that baroque palace, well i love berlin history anyway :D
there are news about that bat??
by :P