Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)

[FrankU]

In all files I made all Parent cohort properties are unchanged. Both the cohort files and the prop exemplars show tree times 0x00000000. Should I change something here? And if yes, what should I change?
Should I indeed make one dat-file that contains all exemplar files and three cohort files? But do I need to edit some values of the parent cohort TGI values? It would be nice to know...

And the Pim-X.... I know of it. I even installed it but somehow don't find the time to get acquainted with the program and so I still use the reader, the lot editor etc... I know I am old-fashioned.

[cogeo]

Setting the parent cohort in an exemplar, is a method of inheriting properties from its ancestors, and shouldn't be used otherwise.
For naming prop-families, you just need to create a cohort with the same "Building/Prop Family" property value. Check also the number of reps of this property, a single item (Rep=0) is NOT the same to having Rep=1, as this one means an "array with one item". In the prop exemplar, this must be 1 (or 2, 3, etc, but not 0).

[FrankU]

Hi Cogeo,

Sorry, but I do not understand....

[cogeo]

Can you send me the thingy to take a look? My email is public.

[RippleJet]

In all files I made all Parent cohort properties are unchanged. Both the cohort files and the prop exemplars show tree times 0x00000000. Should I change something here? And if yes, what should I change?

If the Parent Cohort property is set to 0x00000000, 0x00000000, 0x00000000, then that prop exemplar does not have a parent cohort.
The Parent Cohort property is an address, containing the Type ID, Group ID and Intance ID of the Cohort Exemplar that should be its parent.
Since you've obviously already created your parent cohort, just copy the TGI address of that file into the prop exemplar's Parent Cohort property.

As Cogeo said, it would also be enough to have the Building/Prop Family property set up correctly.
If you leave the Parent Cohort unset (zeroed) in the prop exemplar, then you need to make sure that
the Building/Prop Family has the same value set in both the Cohort Exemplar and the Prop Exemplar.

If you give the Parent Cohort property the address of the Cohort, then you only need to set the Building/Prop Family in the Cohort.

[FrankU]

RippleJet,

Up to some point I think I understand what you mean, but I am afraid I need a tutorial to get things right.
Somehow I have the feeling that it is in fact quite simple, but I am afraid I am going to confuse files and values....

I will send a copy of the file to Cogeo. He apparently likes to help me further with it.

And for the last: is it simpler in Pim-X to get this right? In that case I can maybe do it again with Pim-X.
I really should take some time to get acquainted with it....

And a PS: when I understand the way to do it I will make an addition to the above tutorial, so that it is useful for everyone. OK?

[BarbyW]

It is MUCH simpler to get this right in SC4PIM, Frank, and my User Guide explains it all.

[FrankU]

OK,

BarbyW, RippleJet and Cogeo,

Thanks for your support. I'll give it a new try with Pim-X and/or the info you sent me. If there are still questions I'll ask them here.

So the first try I gave was: loading Pim-X with the dat file I made in Reader. I found the three propfamilies in the list of unnamed propfamilies, just as I expected. I gave them a name and it worked. In Pim-X. In Lot Editor the first and the third family got their correct names, but the second (with just the trees) has the same name as the first (trees plus shrubs). Which I do not understand.
Now I will try to make the propfamily in Pim-X again from scratch. Maybe then everything is correct also in LE.

And the second try was: Start all over with Pim-X. It is indeed, after having figured out how it works which was not too easy, simple. A problem is that the Standard models in the CP Mega pack have no names. I had to look up the numbers of the models I needed in the exemplars of the file I already created with the Reader. So I had to open the Reader also (You don't know how happy I still am that Windows allows me to open more than one program at a time. I originate from the DOS era). Anyway, I hope that won't happen too often. In Pim-X the renaming of the prop families worked flawlessly. Also after datpacking the whole bunch into one file.
But at loading the file into LE I saw something similar as in the first try: the names were not all correct. The first and the second were named correctly, the third was named like the first. So the fault is of the same type, but it is not exactly the same fault! So if someone really likes to find out what is going on here.... You are welcome, but I guess you all have enough useful things to do.

Thanks for your help.

[FrankU]

Now I have made a series of 28 new prop families out of Maxis props. If you like to find out what I did, then please take a look in my lot thread (see my signature for link).

But now I found the same problem as above in a large scale. And also a related question in Pim-X.

The prop families all work perfectly. In Pim-X you will see the correct names. The funny thing is: they are not summed up in correct alphabetical order.
Look:


Can anyone tell me how I can correct this? It is no matter of life and death, but it is annoying. 

And in Lot Editor it is even worse: almost all names are mixed up and wrong:



If someone could give me a clue on what went wrong and what I could do to correct this?

I'd like to put these files on the STEX, but if I do it in this state of confusion, everybody will laugh at me and give me a low rating! 

[BarbyW]

I suspect that the reason for the problems is in the way you have named the prop descs and the families. If you look at this from my props folder you can see that they are all in order:



Your named families have no : in their name and your props are named quite strangely too. Have a look at the above and then see if you can sort out your prop families. If not, post again and we will see what we can do.

[cogeo]

Maybe multiple cohorts naming the same family(-ies) ?

[FrankU]

Dear BarbyW,

I tried to give my prop families names with the ":" symbol in it in the first place. But this did not work.

Because what happened? Take a look. I just did it again to show you.

I deleted the prop family names that have caused the mess I posted about in the first place. So the prop families ended up in the "unnamed families" list in Pim-X.

Then I typed in the first two names: "0x5f851820: FVU Fences and Hedge" and "0x5f851821: FVU TreesnShrubs1".

In Pim-X they move now to the "named families" entry, and they seem to have the right name. But now look closely at the Exemplar name in the lower right pane: the names are both only "0x5f8518".

If I look in my plugins directory there is a file called "Family 0x5F851820" and one called "Family 0x5F851821". Without extension!

When I close Pim-X and reopen it the family names have gone and the prop families are back in the unnamed families entry. Also in Lot Editor there is no name visible. So there is something wrong here.

Have a look at the screenshot:



About the naming of my props:

I selected the props by going through the list of models in the right upper pane. They do not show a name, but only a number: two times an 8-digit number. The first was the same for all models, the second was different for each model, so I assumed that this number was important for finding the models/props back later.

The props I wanted were dragged to the "other building as prop" entry in the upper left pane.
There I named the exemplars: first my initials, then the unique number, then the description I made up myself, because I was not able to find the Maxis name of the props (Well I could have done it with a lot of searching and renaming and fooling around in general with Lot Editor, Reader and Pim-X.)

You think the number in the prop name could be the cause of the confusion? I am surely able to rename the props, but not this weekend. I am going to celebrate my mother's 75th birthday.


And at Cogeo: sorry, but I do not understand what you mean.

[BarbyW]

When you rename the family in SC4PIM there is no need to type in the IID. Just type in the name you want to use - i.e. FrankU Trees and shrubs 1. The reason for the exemplar name problem is that you deleted the family names but not the cohort files. You would need to delete the cohorts or name the them with no IID at the start - i.e. as I showed above.

For the new prop descs, did you make a new one for each family you wish to use it in? I think that cogeo means that the problem you are having is that you have one desc which is in many families or several cohorts calling the same prop desc.

Enjoy the birthday celebrations.

[FrankU]

Hi BarbyW, 

I tried to do it again by using not the IID as start of the name. Exactly what I expected has happened: the names are still out of order, just without the IID names. I actually wanted to use the IID names in the name of the prop families, to make it easier to identify them. Just as is stated in the above tutorial.
So, this did not solve anything. 

Besides that: even the unnamed prop families are not in the correct order of IID's in the list. Why is that possible? 

And indeed: I made one exemplar for every prop I wanted and I used this set of exemplars in several prop families. This is a feature that is used by a lot of people. Not in the least by Maxis itself. So I thought this was an allowed action. Is it not? Otherwise I should make an enormous amount of exemplars that all show up in the proplist in LE and Pim-X. Not too nice, I thought. Some props are used five times, maybe even six!

It really annoys me that something seemingly so simple gives me this headache. As an alternative I can only think now of one solution: forgetting about the naming of the prop families. Because they work fine without the names. It is just no fun to find the right one then. Especially for other users that have not made them themselves. And I have planned to put them on the STEX and will use them in a set of Dutch Farm Lots that I am making.

[FrankU]

Dear friends,

I am taking a look at the files again. I also try to understand what you told me.

I open the FvU_CP_TreesnShrubs_PropFamily.dat file.
This file contains three prop families:

0x5f85180b   CP Trees and shrubs   - a number of trees and shrubs
0x5f85180c   CP Trees      - only the trees out of the upper family
0x5f85180d   CP Shrubs      - only the shrubs out of the upper family

In Reader I see:
Three cohort exemplars.
The TGI of the first cohort exemplar are: 05342861, 67BDDF0C, 6F85180B
The other two have the same Type, the same Group and the Instance ID's are related to the prop families they contain the names of.

When I click on the cohort exemplar each of the three contains:
ParentCohort - with all values in the right screen set to 0x00000000.
Exemplar type - prop
Exemplar name - 0x5F85180B FvU CP TreesnShrubs
Building\prop family - 0x5F85180B

Then there are 13 prop exemplars.
These are the trees and shrubs. All of them are part in two prop families.
As an example I click on the first exemplar.
The TGI of this exemplar is: 6534284A, 42074A38, 150C5CF6     

I see that all prop exemplars have the same T and apparently random G and I entries.

This prop exemplar file contains:
ParentCohort - with all three entries set to 0x00000000.
Then there are:   
Exemplar type - prop
Exemplar name - FvU_CPCottonwoodLgEvergreen11x11x32
etc (not the issue here)
Building/prop family - 0x5F85180B,0x5F85180C
etc (not the issue here)

I have tried to understand what you told me.
I think you mean this:
The three cohort exemplars have no parent cohort and therefore their values are set to 0x00000000.
These three cohort exemplars are parents of several prop exemplars.
Somehow the Parent Cohort entry in the prop exemplar should have a reference to the correct cohort exemplar. That's my guess now. So do I have to enter the Instance ID of the cohort exemplar(s) into the parent cohort entry of the prop exemplar?
If the above prop exemplar had only one parent cohort I could do that easily. But what should I do now that the prop exemplar is part of two prop families? This means, as far as I can see, that it has two parent cohorts. But I cannot add a second parent cohort entry into the prop exemplar file.

I am sure I have setup the Building/prop exemplar correctly. I followed the tutorial exactly. I guess you can see that in the listings above. They do definitely work correct. The only thing that does not work is the name that shows up in LE.

Or is the only solution that I make new prop exemplars in such a way that each exemplar is only part of one prop family? That would mean that I have not 13 prop exemplars, each being part of two prop families, but 26 prop exemplars, each being part of one prop family.
If you consider that I am working on a large group of prop families (see my lot thread with now 28 new prop families and another bunch on the way) the exemplar list in LE and Pim-X will grow a large amount. Or is this not considered a problem?

[cogeo]

I think the TGI of the cohorts do not matter, they only need to be unique. I don't know if making IID equal to the PF ID causes problems though. So make the Group unique, eg 0xFAAE46C0B (this is a "stupid" mnemonic ID derived from your unsername FRANKU COHorts) - only check simcity_1.dat to make sure that the ID is unique, and then the IIDs may indicate your pack (you can use another mnemonic here, or allocate ranges like 0x0000001#, 0x0000002# etc).

The cohorts need to contain only three properties:
- Exemplar Type (= Prop)
- Exemplar Name (the name for the prop-family)
- Building/Prop Family (the prop-family ID). The Rep count should necessarily be 1 here.
So the only association between the cohort and the prop-family is the Building/Prop Family property.

Check the props in my Photovoltaic Power Plants, to see how this is done.

[FrankU]

I think the TGI of the cohorts do not matter, they only need to be unique. I don't know if making IID equal to the PF ID causes problems though. So make the Group unique, eg 0xFAAE46C0B (this is a "stupid" mnemonic ID derived from your unsername FRANKU COHorts) - only check simcity_1.dat to make sure that the ID is unique, and then the IIDs may indicate your pack (you can use another mnemonic here, or allocate ranges like 0x0000001#, 0x0000002# etc).

As far as I understand this is not a neccessary step?

The cohorts need to contain only three properties:
- Exemplar Type (= Prop)
- Exemplar Name (the name for the prop-family)
- Building/Prop Family (the prop-family ID). The Rep count should necessarily be 1 here.
So the only association between the cohort and the prop-family is the Building/Prop Family property.

As far as I understand the matter this is exactly what I have done.  But the point is: a rep count of 1 appears when I use a prop exemplar in just one prop family (isn't it?), but I am trying to use prop exemplars in two or in even five prop families. Maybe there is something not clear in what I am trying to explain, or there is something in your advice (like in RippleJet's and BarbyW's advices) that I do not understand.

[cogeo]

A prop may belong to more than one families, and in this case the Rep count of the Building/Prop Family property (in the prop exemplar) will, of course, be >1.

However these cohorts do only one job, which is to name the families, ie provide an ID-to-name correspondence. And this correspondence is of course 1:1. So the Rep count in the cohort must necessarily be 1.

[nekseb]

I wan't to make some car prop familys for my airport roads. Still waiting for an ID (no problem).

In the meantime I read the tut carefully and now I have one (maybe later more  ) question:

All the cars I wan't to put in one family are ortho, but some are aligned front to north, some front to south. Because I want to put them on roads what will happen, if I plop the lots?

Will be some cars on the "wrong" side of the street? 

[FrankU]

The props you put together in one prop family will be placed with the arrow in the same direction, so cars with the arrow to the back will be placed with the backside to the front. If you understand what I mean.
The prop size you see on LotEditor is the max width of the widest prop and the max depth of the deepest prop and the props will all be placed centered in this square.