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September 30, 2022, 09:26:25 AM

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Problems with avenue median mod project

Started by N1_2888, November 28, 2021, 09:33:27 AM

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I want to create an avenue median mod which should roughly look like this:

But obviously the mod doesn't work properly:

This is the first T21 exemplar which contains the streetlight:

I want the streetlight to appear just on every second tile and thus created a second exemplar without it:

I've altered this mod from ST which seems to work pretty fine.

Any ideas how to fix the mod? %confuso

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Dual tile networks are a bit more finicky, since you probably have to cater for the fact that one tile is actually 2, one being flipped or rotated. I think also some props are 'out of bounds', which is why the little bushes and one of the four barriers aren't appearing.

I suspect the crux of the problem though comes down to other conflicting T21s. Essentially any other T21s that also use the same Network Tile ID, may be shown rather than yours. Fixing that requires tracking all such T21 Exemplars down and either removing them, overriding them or making special Cancellation T21s. If you don't do this, all valid T21s for a given ID make a sort of family, where subsequent clicks pick one at random to show.

Are you using LRM or another street-lighting mod?, these will no doubt include T21s affecting the Avenues. But even the default Maxis T21s will likely number more than 2, so that's the best place to start. I've just switched the PC off for the night, but I have all the Maxis/NAM T21s split by respective networks, this would save you tracking them all down yourself. Especially helpful since Maxis used random IDs that don't use any sort of system, I can pass those along if you'd like? Likewise I have a Cancellation template which I've attached on ST before. Again I can't find it right now, since ST is giving me an error when I try to access my attachments there :(, but I have it on my computer. I should be able to come back to you tomorrow with these resources.


Admittedly, I have no idea about modding T21 exemplars. I thought, just altering an existing mod would work. As you see, it doesn't. ::) Two of the barriers, the streetlight, and the (modified) Maxis flowers are overhanging props as you can find on many "normal" lots. My plugins contain an inactive "ZZZ_USL_v1" folder (I use the SimCity4 StartupManager). Swamper77's No Palms Mod, however, was active. Removing it helped, well, a bit. But the new base texture, to give just one example, didn't show up again.

Anyway, I am grateful for any help! :)

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So I notice now you've got the 0x00 and 0x02 lines from the LotConfig, but these serve no function in a T21 exemplar. They don't cause problems in my experience, but they also won't do anything either.

I don't think USL is an issue, especially if you aren't actually loading the mod. I mentioned LRM because it definitely includes T21s which will also potentially conflict.

I have put together a copy of the Avenue T21s and the Cancellation T21, which you can download from here. For the latter, you simply need to make as many copies as you need and edit both the actual Instance ID and the Property Exemplar ID to match the T21 you want to suppress.

Whilst there are just over 100 T21s for the Avenue network, most of them do not cover the basic straight segment, ID 0x04006100. However, that still leaves 30 T21s, but this is because Maxis set things up so different Props appear for R/C/I, Low/Mid/High density and various wealth levels and the like. I'm sure you've noticed how the props change based on the zoning next to them at some point, this is how it's handled. Specifically using the LotConfigPropertyZoneTypes and WealthTypes properties.

A good tutorial for T21s exists here, but sadly the images are gone :(. Note I put the most important one into the download with the other resources, which helps to visualise how the patterns work, but I don't think you'll need those.

Regarding out of bounds props, it may help to just nudge them slightly in position, since anything too far off the network tile simply doesn't get placed as a result.

Hopefully though there is enough here to help you move forwards.


Quote from: mgb204 on November 29, 2021, 04:51:29 AM
So I notice now you've got the 0x00 and 0x02 lines from the LotConfig, but these serve no function in a T21 exemplar. They don't cause problems in my experience, but they also won't do anything either.
Textures won't work? Hmm, that throws my whole idea out the window. :crytissue: Thanks a lot anyway. I guess, I'll have to come up with something new.

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Textures not, but you could use a T21 to add a 2D S3D model that sits on top of the regular texture, very much like those I released as part of my underbridge lots from this set. It'd be very easy to simply copy the Prop Exemplar/S3D pair, give them a new ID, then customise things as you wished.


Will this S3D model be slope friendly, that means also stretchable? Does there have to be a distance between the model and the ground?

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Sadly S3D planes have practically zero slope tolerance, since it's technically a model. They can fit the angle of a slope, but where changes in slope between tiles appear, you'll get a lot of graphical oddness.

For this type of model, you probably need to raise it by about .2m, to prevent z-fighting with the main network texture. But you might get away without it, depending on certain factors including your videocard. If it wasn't for the need to 'overlay' an existing texture, this wouldn't be such a problem.


Last question, I promise. ;) Is it possible to create a prop layout for medians with grass and another one for those with paving? Due to the orthogonal design of the Maxis paving I want to replace the round flowers of my former plan with square flowers. And flowers on a paving require a planter, flowers on grass don't.

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Using the properties LotConfigPropertyZoneTypes + WealthTypes you can make different T21s for each of those cases. Essentially grass appears with Low Density zoning and sidewalks appear with Med/High Density, so it's easy to match the T21s to each type. A given T21 can also apply to more than one type, so you only need to make one for each Low and Mid/High Density, with the correct set of Zone + Wealth Types set for each.

Just to make things more fun, T21s actually use a total of 16 ZoneTypes, 8 of which otherwise are not used in the game. This allows you to specify what T21s are used in a number of additional situations like Seaports/Airports and Landfill, find the full list in the tutorial I previously linked too.

One thing to bear in mind here, Avenue is unique in that the wealthing used along one is not just based on the lots touching a given tile as with all other networks. Instead, a given section, usually between avexave intersections, will be wealthed according to the zoning that is most prevalent in that section.


A former Austrian chancellor once said:
QuoteIt is all very complicated.
[Es ist alles sehr kompliziert.]
Indeed. :D

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Very last question. ;D Adding light cones to the streetlights worked without any problems, but the models themselves show no nightlights.

You may say, this is because the illuminated area is so tiny:

To anticipate this, I've exported a test model with an omni illuminating the pole of the streetlight, too. Again, no nightlights. :(

This is how it looks like ingame:

You may now say, perhaps the streetlights are too close to the tile boundary. As we all know, there is a bug which causes nightlights not to appear in this case. But the diagonal streetlights are in the middle of the tile, thus not even close to the tile boundary.

What am I doing wrong? ()what()

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Note that a regular BAT model can not project light, i.e. light up areas not part of the model itself. The Maxis streetlights combine a BAT created lamppost and special Light Cones, which are technically a true-3D model. It is possible to add Light Cones to any lamppost model you like, to do this requires a special RKT 4 Exemplar, with the correct sequence of Reps. This basically attaches the Light Cones to the Lamppost, setting the former to switch from Off to On when it is nite (NightTimeStateChange Property).

Another method here is simply to manually add the Light Cones as an additional Prop/(s) on the T21. But the beauty of making your own working light Prop, is that thereafter you just need to add the Prop once and the rest is taken care of. I also believe this method of lighting does not suffer from the other issue where T21d props don't always illuminate (use of Light Cones).

I'd recommend looking at the Light Cones included with either LRM or USL, which I think are even the same models. Using them will allow you to decide both how large the light spread would be and the colour of the bulb to use. Both mods would also contain Prop Exemplars for lights, which can be used as a template to make yours. Here is an example of the RKT 4 values for one of those which has 32 Reps:


I've split it here into groups of 8 Reps, since that represents one state / one prop. Depending on what you want to do, you may need more Props, for example a double-lamp setup for your poles requires adding two more set of reps, increasing the total to 48.

The 1st Rep (0 or 1), simply means on or off respectively (based on the given Timing Mode - in this case when it it night). In other words 0 here means display when it's not night, 1 means display when it is. That's why the LampPost needs two entries, since it's always there in both modes. Whereas the Light Cones only need an entry to show when it is night.

The next three Reps 2 through 4 will offset the Prop from the centre, representing X, Z and Y Axis. I believe that 0x00010000 is 1m in this respect, of course negative values are valid too.

Rep 5 ends in 0 where a True 3D model (like a Light Cone) is used or 1 where a BAT Model is used.

Reps 6 through 8 are the Type, Group and Instance ID of the referenced model.

In other words, the first three Props only appear when the lights are on (Night Mode), the last is only present when lights are not on (Day Mode). The first and last props are both the LampPost, note as the only model to appear in both modes, it needs to both entries.

The middle two Models are the LightCones, note there are two, one ending B0 and another ending 80. One is a tiny light that sits where the bulb would be, so it appears to be on, whilst the other is the larger cone that projects light on the ground.

For your setup, you'll probably be better off taking a look at one of the dual-pole lamp Prop Exemplars from LRM, since it will have extra reps to accommodate the additional light, i.e. it would be the closest example to what you'd be making.


Quote from: mgb204 on December 07, 2021, 03:32:00 AM
I also believe this method of lighting does not suffer from the other issue where T21d props don't always illuminate (use of Light Cones).
Okay, this explains why the night FSHs of my streetlights don't show up. ::)

Anyway, now it looks like this: :)

It looks better than without light globes, doesn't it? :-\

I've skipped most of the files of the USL Mod, and just kept its light cones/globes because my mod and the USL Mod are not compatible, as I've just found out.

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