Title: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: jeronij on January 17, 2007, 08:48:22 AM
Post by: jeronij on January 17, 2007, 08:48:22 AM
Hello dear Sim City 4 Devotion members !!!
I am glad to have been given permission to post an extended a much more detailed tutorial about how to create your own prop families, gently created by Sam and completed with the help of some veteran members of this community. A big thanks go to them all :thumbsup:
With no further detail, here is the transcription.
Transcription starts
End of transcription
I hope you find this helpful ;D
I am glad to have been given permission to post an extended a much more detailed tutorial about how to create your own prop families, gently created by Sam and completed with the help of some veteran members of this community. A big thanks go to them all :thumbsup:
With no further detail, here is the transcription.
Transcription starts
| Hi everyone, after some questions over at SC4 Devotion, I wrote up a little tutorial on prop families. I made it mostly for my own use as the tutorial I used to use is a little out of date (its the one on the STEX), but thought it might be useful for Jeronij's site if he wanted it. I'm not sure if there is an existing tutorial that covers the same material (if so then this one is redundant) I've posted it here first for people to preview if they want, and comment on whether or not its suitable for release. I think it probably covers some existing material, but I could leave it out if necessary. Also, since its based on what I understand of prop families there may be some mistakes, inaccuracies or omissions. So I didn't want to post it publicly without letting people here see it first and having option of veto. Especially since most if it is BSC material. I thought it might be useful to have a current compilation if there wasn't already one. Tutorial: Using Existing Props in New Prop Families This tutorial expands on my basic outline of how to make prop families. It also explains how to make a copy of prop files and add them to a new prop family while leaving the original files intact. I have learned the hard way to never modify core dat files, or dependency files from other creators. Disclaimer: this is a new tutorial and there may still be some minor errors or omissions. If you find any please let me know so I can correct them. Its also not official material, it is just how I do this process. Other people may have different methods. None of this material is my original work (except the compilation of it), it has been a long process of research by many people to work this out. Many of those people were BSC members.The tutorial assumes the audience is fairly familiar with Ilive's Reader and its functions. What is a Prop Family? When using the Lot Editor, you can place props on a lot. When you place an ordinary prop it always uses the same prop when the lot is plopped or grown in the game. You can make your lots more interesting by using prop families. A prop family contains a number of different prop models. If you place a prop family on a lot, each time you plop or grow the lot in the game, it will choose a random prop from the family. This way you can make one lot, but have it look different each time it is used in the game. You can make your own prop families, but it requires a bit of modding. Its not too difficult though. Prop Family IID Range If you are going to create your own prop families, then please ask Barbyw for an instance (iid) range for your families. Each prop family must have a unique iid, and using your own range will ensure that yours don't conflict with anyone else's. There is a request thread here: http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=109&threadid=8226. It is the prop family iid that links all the props into the family. This is how the game knows which props are in the list for it to pick from. Making a prop family from existing props I do not create my own props. I must use props that others create, and these are usually found in published prop packs. Lets say I find some nice props, and I want to put them into a prop family. I will assume that I already know the names of the props I want to use, and which prop pack they are in. I will also assume that the original creator has said its ok for me to use his or her props. I'm going to use for my example Cycledogg's four Street Trees that can be found in his BSC CP PropPack Vol02 (CP_PropPack_Vol02.dat). The prop exemplar names I want are: CP_SpruceTree_StreetA CP_SpruceTree_StreetB CP_SpruceTree_StreetC CP_SpruceTree_StreetD Firstly I start Ilive's Reader and then open BSC CP PropPack Vol02. I locate the four exemplar files that I want and highlight them in the middle pane.  Then (still in the middle pane and with my mouse over one of the four exemplars) I right click, and from the pop-up menu, select Copy Files.  Now I create a new dat file (go to the File menu and select New) In the middle pane of the reader, I right click and choose Paste Files. The screen should look similar to the picture below. Now I have a new file with the four prop exemplars in it.  At this point we have a problem. You may notice that the TGI numbers of these exemplars are exactly the same as those in Cycledogg's original prop pack (compare the images above). We need to make sure our new exemplars have their own unique TGI numbers. (TGI: Type Group Instance) To do this, in the middle pane, I select all four exemplar files, right click and select Generate New Group and Instance.  The results should now be similar to below. Notice the exemplars now have different TGI numbers.  At this point ReIndex and Rebuild the directory file (in the middle pane, right click, and pick ReIndex. Then, again in the right pane, right click and pick Rebuild Directory File). Then save the new dat file before something bad happens (go to the File menu and choose Save As). Give it a good name. I'm going to call mine sam_CP_SpruceStreetTrees_propFamily.dat With this name I can tell: It is a file I modified It contains prop families The original creator was Cycledogg (CP) It contains the Spruce Street Tree prop exemplars These exemplars should not now conflict with any other in game file. But it still doesn't do what we want. The props still belong to the families that Cycledogg originally gave them.  To change these, I select the first exemplar file in the middle pane. Then in the right hand pane, I double click the Building/Prop Family property. The results are shown below:  Since this is a new exemplar file I can safely delete the iids that Cycledogg added (since they are still in the original file), and add my own. I will delete the first rep (the first white cell under the values list) by clicking on it, then clicking the Remove button. I will delete the second rep the same way. I will then find the next available prop family iid in my range, which is 5A100050. I overwrite the third rep with 0x5A100050. Then I click the apply button on the lower right, then click the apply button on the lower left.  Your results should look similar to the picture below. Note the value in the Prop/Building Family property now appears as we wish it to.  But we have only done the first exemplar out of four. So at this point, you will need to change the other three in the same way (ie pick the file to modify in the middle pane, then in the right pane, find the Prop/Building Family property, double click it, delete any unwanted values and add your own) Then all four of our new exemplars should belong to our new prop family. At this point it is wise to ReIndex and Rebuild the directory file, then save your dat file. We now have our new props in a new prop family. They should be available in the Lot Editor, listed under the family iid. Advanced Feature - Naming Your Prop Family We can if we wish, give the family a name by adding a Parent Cohort file, using the method outlined by Jeronij. This name will appear in the list of prop families in the Lot Editor, which makes choosing the right family for our lots much easier. In my example above, the iid of my Parent Cohort file must be 6A100050 (because the family iid was 5A100050, I must add 1 to the left most digit). Then in the Lot Editor, the new family will appear in the list with its name. To do this, I'm going to copy a Cohort File from one of my previous prop families. (Open the file that contains the family, find the Cohort file to copy in the middle pane, right click, and select Copy File) The Parent Cohort file should appear in the middle pane before any of the prop exemplars that use it. To do this, in the middle pane I'm going to click on the first exemplar file in the list. Then I right click and choose Paste File.  This will put the Cohort file as the second item in the list which is not what we really want.  So I will now copy the first file in the list (the exemplar file above the cohort file), click on the parent cohort file, and paste the exemplar file. This will put a new copy the first exemplar file below the parent cohort in the list. Now we have two copies of the same exemplar, so I can safely remove the copy above the parent cohort file in the list. (In the middle pane click on the file to be removed, then right click and select Remove File)  Now all our files are present and in the correct order, but I need to make some changes to the Cohort file. First I change its instance id to 6A100050. (In the middle pane, click on the Cohort file. Then on the Reader's top button bar, click File Info button. On the pop-up screen click the Edit button. You will get a new pop-up screen. In your head or on a piece of paper, take your prop family iid and add 1 to the left most digit (my prop family iid was 5A100050 so the new number will be 6A100050). Type this new number into the Instance box of the latest pop-up screen, then click ok. (see the second picture below)   Close the File Info box. Its a good idea to Save. Now I need to alter some of the properties in the Parent Cohort file. (If you click on the cohort file in the middle pane, the properties are shown in the right pane). Note in the picture below the properties of my cohort file have incorrect values (because it is just a copy from another family)  First I need to alter the Building/Prop Family property to match the prop family iid that I have used for the family, ie 5A100050 In the right pane, double click the Building/Prop Family property. There should only be one Value box. I change this to match the prop family iid and apply the changes. Now I alter the prop Exemplar Name property. To do this, in the right pane I double click it, and in the values box, I give it the name I want. This is the name that will appear in the prop families list in the Lot Editor. My personal preference is to put the family iid at the front of this name, so that I always know which family I am using in the LE. Apply the changes. Tip from Deadwoods: make sure the family name is not too long or you won't see all of it in the family window in the LotEditor. The Cohorts properties should now look similar to the image below.  Re-Index, Rebuild the directory file and Save. Our prop family file is now done. We should be able to use it in the Lot Editor now.  Note: Our prop family only contains the descriptor files for our props. The model files are still in the original prop pack, so this prop pack will still be a dependency of any lot that that uses this prop family. Unfortunately this may not be detected by some dependency scanners. I always keep a spreadsheet of the prop families I have created and the prop packs the models came from. This way I can make a complete dependency listing for them. Appendix: One other thing I should have mentioned - when I create new prop exemplars from existing props I usually change their exemplar names. Every prop exemplar is listed in the Lot Editor props list (the list that appears when you click the Add Prop button). This can clutter up the menu if we keep making copies of props, and make things hard to find. Usually I add to the original exemplar name a prefix which indicates the new props are from a family. This way I know not to use them when adding props from the prop list (as opposed to the prop family list). For example, I might rename the first prop exemplar above to zz_spf_CP_SpruceTree_StreetA zz_ this should make the prop appear towards the end of the Lot Editor's prop list, out of the way of the regular props spf_ short for sam's prop family (indicates its a prop family prop made by sam) CP_SpruceTree_StreetA indicates the original prop exemplar this prop is a copy of, and that it was made by Cycledogg. I renamed the exemplars I used in my prop family and you can see from the picture below, the individual props now appear at the end of the Lot Editor's prop list, well out of my way.  This is purely a personal preference of mine, but other people are likely to have different methods. Last edited by Sam on Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:18 pm; edited 5 times in total |
End of transcription
I hope you find this helpful ;D
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: CabraBuitre on November 17, 2007, 12:51:01 PM
Post by: CabraBuitre on November 17, 2007, 12:51:01 PM
As I'm not sure where else to post this question... I think I'll do it here! I've had problems with prop familes that USED to have the proper names in the lot editor no longer show up correctly (in other words, they now say "unnamed." There are a FEW that still have their names in the prop family screen, but the great majority do not (for example, in SG's section of the lot editor, prop families 0xa5a00100-113 are "unnamed", 0xa5a00115-18 are named) Is there anything I can do to make these reappear? It would make lotting much, much easier.
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: BarbyW on November 17, 2007, 01:54:48 PM
Post by: BarbyW on November 17, 2007, 01:54:48 PM
The associated cohorts for the families you are missing are all in SG's MEGA pack so I can only suggest that you reinstall it.
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: CabraBuitre on November 17, 2007, 02:48:21 PM
Post by: CabraBuitre on November 17, 2007, 02:48:21 PM
ok, I'll give it a shot, thanks.
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: CabraBuitre on November 17, 2007, 03:08:05 PM
Post by: CabraBuitre on November 17, 2007, 03:08:05 PM
Unfortunately that didn't work. Any other thoughts as to why it wouldn't? I re-downloaded the megapack here at SC4D (which I hadn't had downloaded before... I only had the previous one from the STEX).
EDIT: I also noticed that D66's families are largely unnamed as well. Could I have something that is conflicting with these to prevent them from showing up?
EDIT: I also noticed that D66's families are largely unnamed as well. Could I have something that is conflicting with these to prevent them from showing up?
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: BarbyW on November 17, 2007, 03:34:48 PM
Post by: BarbyW on November 17, 2007, 03:34:48 PM
D66's are largely unnamed but I have no idea why SG's are no longer showing. Open SG's MEGA pack in Reader and only look for the Cohorts. If they are in place then you do have something conflicting but what it could be I have no idea.
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: CabraBuitre on November 17, 2007, 03:59:04 PM
Post by: CabraBuitre on November 17, 2007, 03:59:04 PM
I think I found it... I uninstalled "PropFamilyNames.dat" which really isn't all that necessary, as I don't use Maxis props when I lot-build... when I removed it, then SG's props show up correctly! I'm not sure if anyone else has had a problem similar to this... but perhaps we've just found out the solution!
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: BarbyW on November 17, 2007, 04:01:48 PM
Post by: BarbyW on November 17, 2007, 04:01:48 PM
I always have that file in my plugins so that shouldn't cause a conflict at all. It is very odd ::)
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: soulstealer on February 29, 2008, 10:57:35 AM
Post by: soulstealer on February 29, 2008, 10:57:35 AM
Thanks for the tutorial :thumbsup:
How can you change if the props in the family rotate in random or stay fixed?
How can you change if the props in the family rotate in random or stay fixed?
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: RippleJet on February 29, 2008, 11:29:21 AM
Post by: RippleJet on February 29, 2008, 11:29:21 AM
Quote from: soulstealer on February 29, 2008, 10:57:35 AM
How can you change if the props in the family rotate in random or stay fixed?
You can't. $%Grinno$%
Props in a family are always selected randomly. ;)
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: soulstealer on February 29, 2008, 12:31:18 PM
Post by: soulstealer on February 29, 2008, 12:31:18 PM
bugger.
so the only way around is to create same props with different orientation and place them in the family.
so the only way around is to create same props with different orientation and place them in the family.
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: RebaLynnTS on February 29, 2008, 01:03:19 PM
Post by: RebaLynnTS on February 29, 2008, 01:03:19 PM
Quote from: soulstealer on February 29, 2008, 12:31:18 PM
bugger.
so the only way around is to create same props with different orientation and place them in the family.
Yep!
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: Unassigned on July 02, 2008, 09:28:13 AM
Post by: Unassigned on July 02, 2008, 09:28:13 AM
IID request thread link in the OP (the tutorial) is b0rken.
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: SimFox on September 21, 2008, 11:44:15 AM
Post by: SimFox on September 21, 2008, 11:44:15 AM
Are there any differences to creating building families as compared with props.
I´ve followed this tutorial and did successfully created the prop family, but when I try to follow the same line with building exemplars nothing seem to happens - namely I don't see new building family listed in Lot Editor Replace Building family window.
Also I'm wondering about that PropFamilyNames.dat CabraBuitre and BarbyW were talking about and I can't seem to find it anywhere...Scanned entire HDD and found no such file... Exactly where is it supposed to be?
I´ve followed this tutorial and did successfully created the prop family, but when I try to follow the same line with building exemplars nothing seem to happens - namely I don't see new building family listed in Lot Editor Replace Building family window.
Also I'm wondering about that PropFamilyNames.dat CabraBuitre and BarbyW were talking about and I can't seem to find it anywhere...Scanned entire HDD and found no such file... Exactly where is it supposed to be?
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: BarbyW on September 21, 2008, 01:04:56 PM
Post by: BarbyW on September 21, 2008, 01:04:56 PM
The BSC Prop Family Names (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1562) mod is what we are referring to.
With regard to building families, the procedure is exactly the same as for making prop families but they will only appear in the Replace Family list of LE if the exemplars are the same type - ie R$/R$$/R$$$ - as the building you wish to replace and the lot is big enough to hold the building.
With regard to building families, the procedure is exactly the same as for making prop families but they will only appear in the Replace Family list of LE if the exemplars are the same type - ie R$/R$$/R$$$ - as the building you wish to replace and the lot is big enough to hold the building.
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: FrankU on October 12, 2009, 01:02:36 AM
Post by: FrankU on October 12, 2009, 01:02:36 AM
This is a very versatile tutorial! Clear and easy to follow. Thanks a lot.
I have one addition.
If you start your own prop family from scratch, the exemplar files do not contain the "Building/prop family" property. But it is easy to add this by left clicking in the right pane, select "Add property" and select "building/prop family". Then you add the right number ( Ox and then the iid Barby gave you) and save the file. Now you copy this property into all other exemplars. Reindex, rebuild etc....
I also have two questions.
1. Is it possible to make prop families in such a way that randomly no prop appears? For example: if I have a prop family of trucks ( I actually made one) I would want in some cases that no truck is visible. Of course I could add a prop that is invisible, if I had one.... Is there a way that is useful and not too hard?
2. I made some prop families. They work correctly. But then one of these families suddenly showed all installed props twice when I select it in the list. When I rotate the props (pressing N) I see that the order of appearance is different than when I made the family the first time. Does anyone have a clue how this could have happened? As far as I remember I have not changed the file since the first time. In the Reader the family looks OK. It is not that I copied all exemplars twice into the dat-file!
I have one addition.
If you start your own prop family from scratch, the exemplar files do not contain the "Building/prop family" property. But it is easy to add this by left clicking in the right pane, select "Add property" and select "building/prop family". Then you add the right number ( Ox and then the iid Barby gave you) and save the file. Now you copy this property into all other exemplars. Reindex, rebuild etc....
I also have two questions.
1. Is it possible to make prop families in such a way that randomly no prop appears? For example: if I have a prop family of trucks ( I actually made one) I would want in some cases that no truck is visible. Of course I could add a prop that is invisible, if I had one.... Is there a way that is useful and not too hard?
2. I made some prop families. They work correctly. But then one of these families suddenly showed all installed props twice when I select it in the list. When I rotate the props (pressing N) I see that the order of appearance is different than when I made the family the first time. Does anyone have a clue how this could have happened? As far as I remember I have not changed the file since the first time. In the Reader the family looks OK. It is not that I copied all exemplars twice into the dat-file!
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: BarbyW on October 12, 2009, 06:55:39 AM
Post by: BarbyW on October 12, 2009, 06:55:39 AM
The way to have no prop appear sometimes is to use Prop Random Chance but that means making them with a Resource Key Type 4. joelyboy asked about this in this thread (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=8066.msg279980#msg279980) so you should be able to follow the procedure explained there and in the threa Ripplejet pointed him to.
The scond question is odd. Make sure that you do not have another copy of the dat lurking around anywhere. Empty your plugins apart from your prop exemplar dat and the required prop packs and see what happens then. If you still have doubled props showing in LE then you must, somehow, have doubled the exemplars in your dat.
The scond question is odd. Make sure that you do not have another copy of the dat lurking around anywhere. Empty your plugins apart from your prop exemplar dat and the required prop packs and see what happens then. If you still have doubled props showing in LE then you must, somehow, have doubled the exemplars in your dat.
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: FrankU on October 12, 2009, 07:16:45 AM
Post by: FrankU on October 12, 2009, 07:16:45 AM
Thanks Barby,
I think this procedure is a bit too complex for me. I have not much time for SC4, so my will to explore the depth of the Reader is limited.
And the other point: yes, it could be that I have two versions of the file in my plugins. I'll have a look when I am at home again.
I think this procedure is a bit too complex for me. I have not much time for SC4, so my will to explore the depth of the Reader is limited.
And the other point: yes, it could be that I have two versions of the file in my plugins. I'll have a look when I am at home again.
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: FrankU on November 02, 2010, 03:55:26 AM
Post by: FrankU on November 02, 2010, 03:55:26 AM
Now I have another question on prop families. I hope I can make it clear.
I wanted to make three prop families. They have the following IID's and contain:
0x5f85180b CP Trees and shrubs - a number of trees and shrubs
0x5f85180c CP Trees - only the trees out of the upper family
0x5f85180d CP Shrubs - only the shrubs out of the upper family
For this purpose I have selected a group of trees and bushes from the BSC MEGA Props - CP Vol01.dat.
I built a file containing all the needed exemplars. Every exemplar is member of two prop families: the trees belong to 0x5f85180b and 0x5f85180c, The shrubs belong to 0x5f85180b and 0x5f85180d. So each exemplar had two values in the building/propfamily entry.
Everything works correctly, so I can work with the file.
So far no questions.
But now: I would like to see the names of the prop families in the LotEditor list. So I added a cohort file and tried to make it show the three names with the correct prop families. But I did not succeed. What should I do?
I tried to put three cohort files in the dat file, where each cohort file contains the names and IID's etc for one prop family. That did not work. Then I tried it by using one cohort file for only the first prop familiy and then two separate dat-files, containing each only a cohort file for the other two prop families. That also did not work.
Is there a correct way of naming the three prop families?
Of course I considered to make three dat-files, each for every prop family, bot in that case I need to make two copies of every exemplar. I thought that would not be necessary.
I wanted to make three prop families. They have the following IID's and contain:
0x5f85180b CP Trees and shrubs - a number of trees and shrubs
0x5f85180c CP Trees - only the trees out of the upper family
0x5f85180d CP Shrubs - only the shrubs out of the upper family
For this purpose I have selected a group of trees and bushes from the BSC MEGA Props - CP Vol01.dat.
I built a file containing all the needed exemplars. Every exemplar is member of two prop families: the trees belong to 0x5f85180b and 0x5f85180c, The shrubs belong to 0x5f85180b and 0x5f85180d. So each exemplar had two values in the building/propfamily entry.
Everything works correctly, so I can work with the file.
So far no questions.
But now: I would like to see the names of the prop families in the LotEditor list. So I added a cohort file and tried to make it show the three names with the correct prop families. But I did not succeed. What should I do?
I tried to put three cohort files in the dat file, where each cohort file contains the names and IID's etc for one prop family. That did not work. Then I tried it by using one cohort file for only the first prop familiy and then two separate dat-files, containing each only a cohort file for the other two prop families. That also did not work.
Is there a correct way of naming the three prop families?
Of course I considered to make three dat-files, each for every prop family, bot in that case I need to make two copies of every exemplar. I thought that would not be necessary.
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: RippleJet on November 02, 2010, 05:04:22 AM
Post by: RippleJet on November 02, 2010, 05:04:22 AM
Did you also change the Parent Cohort property for the props, so that they actually point to the TGI of the Cohort Exemplar?
It's quite easy to create and name the prop families (and cohorts) in PIM-X btw. ;)
It's quite easy to create and name the prop families (and cohorts) in PIM-X btw. ;)
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: FrankU on November 02, 2010, 08:21:40 AM
Post by: FrankU on November 02, 2010, 08:21:40 AM
In all files I made all Parent cohort properties are unchanged. Both the cohort files and the prop exemplars show tree times 0x00000000. Should I change something here? And if yes, what should I change?
Should I indeed make one dat-file that contains all exemplar files and three cohort files? But do I need to edit some values of the parent cohort TGI values? It would be nice to know...
And the Pim-X.... I know of it. I even installed it but somehow don't find the time to get acquainted with the program and so I still use the reader, the lot editor etc... I know I am old-fashioned.
Should I indeed make one dat-file that contains all exemplar files and three cohort files? But do I need to edit some values of the parent cohort TGI values? It would be nice to know...
And the Pim-X.... I know of it. I even installed it but somehow don't find the time to get acquainted with the program and so I still use the reader, the lot editor etc... I know I am old-fashioned.
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: cogeo on November 02, 2010, 10:09:20 AM
Post by: cogeo on November 02, 2010, 10:09:20 AM
For naming prop-families, you just need to create a cohort with the same "Building/Prop Family" property value. Check also the number of reps of this property, a single item (Rep=0) is NOT the same to having Rep=1, as this one means an "array with one item". In the prop exemplar, this must be 1 (or 2, 3, etc, but not 0).
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: FrankU on November 02, 2010, 01:12:04 PM
Post by: FrankU on November 02, 2010, 01:12:04 PM
Hi Cogeo,
Sorry, but I do not understand....
Sorry, but I do not understand....
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: cogeo on November 02, 2010, 01:39:26 PM
Post by: cogeo on November 02, 2010, 01:39:26 PM
Can you send me the thingy to take a look? My email is public.
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: RippleJet on November 04, 2010, 06:57:54 AM
Post by: RippleJet on November 04, 2010, 06:57:54 AM
Quote from: FrankU on November 02, 2010, 08:21:40 AM
In all files I made all Parent cohort properties are unchanged. Both the cohort files and the prop exemplars show tree times 0x00000000. Should I change something here? And if yes, what should I change?
If the Parent Cohort property is set to 0x00000000, 0x00000000, 0x00000000, then that prop exemplar does not have a parent cohort.
The Parent Cohort property is an address, containing the Type ID, Group ID and Intance ID of the Cohort Exemplar that should be its parent.
Since you've obviously already created your parent cohort, just copy the TGI address of that file into the prop exemplar's Parent Cohort property.
As Cogeo said, it would also be enough to have the Building/Prop Family property set up correctly.
If you leave the Parent Cohort unset (zeroed) in the prop exemplar, then you need to make sure that
the Building/Prop Family has the same value set in both the Cohort Exemplar and the Prop Exemplar.
If you give the Parent Cohort property the address of the Cohort, then you only need to set the Building/Prop Family in the Cohort.
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: FrankU on November 04, 2010, 08:17:37 AM
Post by: FrankU on November 04, 2010, 08:17:37 AM
RippleJet,
Up to some point I think I understand what you mean, but I am afraid I need a tutorial to get things right.
Somehow I have the feeling that it is in fact quite simple, but I am afraid I am going to confuse files and values....
I will send a copy of the file to Cogeo. He apparently likes to help me further with it.
And for the last: is it simpler in Pim-X to get this right? In that case I can maybe do it again with Pim-X.
I really should take some time to get acquainted with it....
And a PS: when I understand the way to do it I will make an addition to the above tutorial, so that it is useful for everyone. OK?
Up to some point I think I understand what you mean, but I am afraid I need a tutorial to get things right.
Somehow I have the feeling that it is in fact quite simple, but I am afraid I am going to confuse files and values....
I will send a copy of the file to Cogeo. He apparently likes to help me further with it.
And for the last: is it simpler in Pim-X to get this right? In that case I can maybe do it again with Pim-X.
I really should take some time to get acquainted with it....
And a PS: when I understand the way to do it I will make an addition to the above tutorial, so that it is useful for everyone. OK?
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: BarbyW on November 04, 2010, 09:02:32 AM
Post by: BarbyW on November 04, 2010, 09:02:32 AM
It is MUCH simpler to get this right in SC4PIM, Frank, and my User Guide explains it all.
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: FrankU on November 05, 2010, 03:09:29 AM
Post by: FrankU on November 05, 2010, 03:09:29 AM
OK,
BarbyW, RippleJet and Cogeo,
Thanks for your support.I'll give it a new try with Pim-X and/or the info you sent me. If there are still questions I'll ask them here.
So the first try I gave was: loading Pim-X with the dat file I made in Reader. I found the three propfamilies in the list of unnamed propfamilies, just as I expected. I gave them a name and it worked. In Pim-X. In Lot Editor the first and the third family got their correct names, but the second (with just the trees) has the same name as the first (trees plus shrubs). Which I do not understand.
Now I will try to make the propfamily in Pim-X again from scratch. Maybe then everything is correct also in LE.
And the second try was: Start all over with Pim-X. It is indeed, after having figured out how it works which was not too easy, simple. A problem is that the Standard models in the CP Mega pack have no names. I had to look up the numbers of the models I needed in the exemplars of the file I already created with the Reader. So I had to open the Reader also (You don't know how happy I still am that Windows allows me to open more than one program at a time. I originate from the DOS era). Anyway, I hope that won't happen too often. In Pim-X the renaming of the prop families worked flawlessly. Also after datpacking the whole bunch into one file.
But at loading the file into LE I saw something similar as in the first try: the names were not all correct. The first and the second were named correctly, the third was named like the first. So the fault is of the same type, but it is not exactly the same fault! So if someone really likes to find out what is going on here.... You are welcome, but I guess you all have enough useful things to do.
Thanks for your help.
BarbyW, RippleJet and Cogeo,
Thanks for your support.
So the first try I gave was: loading Pim-X with the dat file I made in Reader. I found the three propfamilies in the list of unnamed propfamilies, just as I expected. I gave them a name and it worked. In Pim-X. In Lot Editor the first and the third family got their correct names, but the second (with just the trees) has the same name as the first (trees plus shrubs). Which I do not understand.
Now I will try to make the propfamily in Pim-X again from scratch. Maybe then everything is correct also in LE.
And the second try was: Start all over with Pim-X. It is indeed, after having figured out how it works which was not too easy, simple. A problem is that the Standard models in the CP Mega pack have no names. I had to look up the numbers of the models I needed in the exemplars of the file I already created with the Reader. So I had to open the Reader also (You don't know how happy I still am that Windows allows me to open more than one program at a time. I originate from the DOS era). Anyway, I hope that won't happen too often. In Pim-X the renaming of the prop families worked flawlessly. Also after datpacking the whole bunch into one file.
But at loading the file into LE I saw something similar as in the first try: the names were not all correct. The first and the second were named correctly, the third was named like the first. So the fault is of the same type, but it is not exactly the same fault! So if someone really likes to find out what is going on here.... You are welcome, but I guess you all have enough useful things to do.
Thanks for your help.
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: FrankU on November 17, 2010, 11:35:26 AM
Post by: FrankU on November 17, 2010, 11:35:26 AM
Now I have made a series of 28 new prop families out of Maxis props. If you like to find out what I did, then please take a look in my lot thread (see my signature for link).
But now I found the same problem as above in a large scale. And also a related question in Pim-X.
The prop families all work perfectly. In Pim-X you will see the correct names. The funny thing is: they are not summed up in correct alphabetical order.
Look:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi277.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fkk63%2FFrankU_bucket%2FProp%2520Families%2FNamedFamiliesPim-X.jpg&hash=40d40ea91d03fba82ed1a7e6c8040d12e7aaa330)
Can anyone tell me how I can correct this? It is no matter of life and death, but it is annoying. ???
And in Lot Editor it is even worse: almost all names are mixed up and wrong:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi277.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fkk63%2FFrankU_bucket%2FProp%2520Families%2FPropfamiliesmessinLotEditor.jpg&hash=4f61a156f50d24979290f72ce04fd6cec8cbb1ad)
If someone could give me a clue on what went wrong and what I could do to correct this?
I'd like to put these files on the STEX, but if I do it in this state of confusion, everybody will laugh at me and give me a low rating! :'(
But now I found the same problem as above in a large scale. And also a related question in Pim-X.
The prop families all work perfectly. In Pim-X you will see the correct names. The funny thing is: they are not summed up in correct alphabetical order.
Look:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi277.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fkk63%2FFrankU_bucket%2FProp%2520Families%2FNamedFamiliesPim-X.jpg&hash=40d40ea91d03fba82ed1a7e6c8040d12e7aaa330)
Can anyone tell me how I can correct this? It is no matter of life and death, but it is annoying. ???
And in Lot Editor it is even worse: almost all names are mixed up and wrong:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi277.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fkk63%2FFrankU_bucket%2FProp%2520Families%2FPropfamiliesmessinLotEditor.jpg&hash=4f61a156f50d24979290f72ce04fd6cec8cbb1ad)
If someone could give me a clue on what went wrong and what I could do to correct this?
I'd like to put these files on the STEX, but if I do it in this state of confusion, everybody will laugh at me and give me a low rating! :'(
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: BarbyW on November 17, 2010, 12:34:19 PM
Post by: BarbyW on November 17, 2010, 12:34:19 PM
I suspect that the reason for the problems is in the way you have named the prop descs and the families. If you look at this from my props folder you can see that they are all in order:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy171%2Fbarbyw%2Fpropfamilynamed.jpg&hash=529647f247c17c517b4134452d81f247f3532c68)
Your named families have no : in their name and your props are named quite strangely too. Have a look at the above and then see if you can sort out your prop families. If not, post again and we will see what we can do.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy171%2Fbarbyw%2Fpropfamilynamed.jpg&hash=529647f247c17c517b4134452d81f247f3532c68)
Your named families have no : in their name and your props are named quite strangely too. Have a look at the above and then see if you can sort out your prop families. If not, post again and we will see what we can do.
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: cogeo on November 17, 2010, 12:54:45 PM
Post by: cogeo on November 17, 2010, 12:54:45 PM
Maybe multiple cohorts naming the same family(-ies) ?
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: FrankU on November 20, 2010, 04:05:16 AM
Post by: FrankU on November 20, 2010, 04:05:16 AM
Dear BarbyW,
I tried to give my prop families names with the ":" symbol in it in the first place. But this did not work.
Because what happened? Take a look. I just did it again to show you.
I deleted the prop family names that have caused the mess I posted about in the first place. So the prop families ended up in the "unnamed families" list in Pim-X.
Then I typed in the first two names: "0x5f851820: FVU Fences and Hedge" and "0x5f851821: FVU TreesnShrubs1".
In Pim-X they move now to the "named families" entry, and they seem to have the right name. But now look closely at the Exemplar name in the lower right pane: the names are both only "0x5f8518".
If I look in my plugins directory there is a file called "Family 0x5F851820" and one called "Family 0x5F851821". Without extension!
When I close Pim-X and reopen it the family names have gone and the prop families are back in the unnamed families entry. Also in Lot Editor there is no name visible. So there is something wrong here.
Have a look at the screenshot:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi277.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fkk63%2FFrankU_bucket%2FProp%2520Families%2FPropfamiliesRenaming01.jpg&hash=3b840303e9d8ef4ed3908237e12122b50818f7c9)
About the naming of my props:
I selected the props by going through the list of models in the right upper pane. They do not show a name, but only a number: two times an 8-digit number. The first was the same for all models, the second was different for each model, so I assumed that this number was important for finding the models/props back later.
The props I wanted were dragged to the "other building as prop" entry in the upper left pane.
There I named the exemplars: first my initials, then the unique number, then the description I made up myself, because I was not able to find the Maxis name of the props (Well I could have done it with a lot of searching and renaming and fooling around in general with Lot Editor, Reader and Pim-X.)
You think the number in the prop name could be the cause of the confusion? I am surely able to rename the props, but not this weekend. I am going to celebrate my mother's 75th birthday.
And at Cogeo: sorry, but I do not understand what you mean.
I tried to give my prop families names with the ":" symbol in it in the first place. But this did not work.
Because what happened? Take a look. I just did it again to show you.
I deleted the prop family names that have caused the mess I posted about in the first place. So the prop families ended up in the "unnamed families" list in Pim-X.
Then I typed in the first two names: "0x5f851820: FVU Fences and Hedge" and "0x5f851821: FVU TreesnShrubs1".
In Pim-X they move now to the "named families" entry, and they seem to have the right name. But now look closely at the Exemplar name in the lower right pane: the names are both only "0x5f8518".
If I look in my plugins directory there is a file called "Family 0x5F851820" and one called "Family 0x5F851821". Without extension!
When I close Pim-X and reopen it the family names have gone and the prop families are back in the unnamed families entry. Also in Lot Editor there is no name visible. So there is something wrong here.
Have a look at the screenshot:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi277.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fkk63%2FFrankU_bucket%2FProp%2520Families%2FPropfamiliesRenaming01.jpg&hash=3b840303e9d8ef4ed3908237e12122b50818f7c9)
About the naming of my props:
I selected the props by going through the list of models in the right upper pane. They do not show a name, but only a number: two times an 8-digit number. The first was the same for all models, the second was different for each model, so I assumed that this number was important for finding the models/props back later.
The props I wanted were dragged to the "other building as prop" entry in the upper left pane.
There I named the exemplars: first my initials, then the unique number, then the description I made up myself, because I was not able to find the Maxis name of the props (Well I could have done it with a lot of searching and renaming and fooling around in general with Lot Editor, Reader and Pim-X.)
You think the number in the prop name could be the cause of the confusion? I am surely able to rename the props, but not this weekend. I am going to celebrate my mother's 75th birthday.
And at Cogeo: sorry, but I do not understand what you mean.
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: BarbyW on November 20, 2010, 04:31:43 AM
Post by: BarbyW on November 20, 2010, 04:31:43 AM
When you rename the family in SC4PIM there is no need to type in the IID. Just type in the name you want to use - i.e. FrankU Trees and shrubs 1. The reason for the exemplar name problem is that you deleted the family names but not the cohort files. You would need to delete the cohorts or name the them with no IID at the start - i.e. as I showed above.
For the new prop descs, did you make a new one for each family you wish to use it in? I think that cogeo means that the problem you are having is that you have one desc which is in many families or several cohorts calling the same prop desc.
Enjoy the birthday celebrations. :thumbsup:
For the new prop descs, did you make a new one for each family you wish to use it in? I think that cogeo means that the problem you are having is that you have one desc which is in many families or several cohorts calling the same prop desc.
Enjoy the birthday celebrations. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: FrankU on November 21, 2010, 12:52:16 PM
Post by: FrankU on November 21, 2010, 12:52:16 PM
Hi BarbyW, :(
I tried to do it again by using not the IID as start of the name. Exactly what I expected has happened: the names are still out of order, just without the IID names. I actually wanted to use the IID names in the name of the prop families, to make it easier to identify them. Just as is stated in the above tutorial.
So, this did not solve anything. :'(
Besides that: even the unnamed prop families are not in the correct order of IID's in the list. Why is that possible? ()what()
And indeed: I made one exemplar for every prop I wanted and I used this set of exemplars in several prop families. This is a feature that is used by a lot of people. Not in the least by Maxis itself. So I thought this was an allowed action. Is it not? Otherwise I should make an enormous amount of exemplars that all show up in the proplist in LE and Pim-X. Not too nice, I thought. Some props are used five times, maybe even six!
It really annoys me that something seemingly so simple gives me this headache. As an alternative I can only think now of one solution: forgetting about the naming of the prop families. Because they work fine without the names. It is just no fun to find the right one then. Especially for other users that have not made them themselves. And I have planned to put them on the STEX and will use them in a set of Dutch Farm Lots that I am making.
I tried to do it again by using not the IID as start of the name. Exactly what I expected has happened: the names are still out of order, just without the IID names. I actually wanted to use the IID names in the name of the prop families, to make it easier to identify them. Just as is stated in the above tutorial.
So, this did not solve anything. :'(
Besides that: even the unnamed prop families are not in the correct order of IID's in the list. Why is that possible? ()what()
And indeed: I made one exemplar for every prop I wanted and I used this set of exemplars in several prop families. This is a feature that is used by a lot of people. Not in the least by Maxis itself. So I thought this was an allowed action. Is it not? Otherwise I should make an enormous amount of exemplars that all show up in the proplist in LE and Pim-X. Not too nice, I thought. Some props are used five times, maybe even six!
It really annoys me that something seemingly so simple gives me this headache. As an alternative I can only think now of one solution: forgetting about the naming of the prop families. Because they work fine without the names. It is just no fun to find the right one then. Especially for other users that have not made them themselves. And I have planned to put them on the STEX and will use them in a set of Dutch Farm Lots that I am making.
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: FrankU on November 26, 2010, 02:06:55 AM
Post by: FrankU on November 26, 2010, 02:06:55 AM
Dear friends,
I am taking a look at the files again. I also try to understand what you told me.
I open the FvU_CP_TreesnShrubs_PropFamily.dat file.
This file contains three prop families:
0x5f85180b CP Trees and shrubs - a number of trees and shrubs
0x5f85180c CP Trees - only the trees out of the upper family
0x5f85180d CP Shrubs - only the shrubs out of the upper family
In Reader I see:
Three cohort exemplars.
The TGI of the first cohort exemplar are: 05342861, 67BDDF0C, 6F85180B
The other two have the same Type, the same Group and the Instance ID's are related to the prop families they contain the names of.
When I click on the cohort exemplar each of the three contains:
ParentCohort - with all values in the right screen set to 0x00000000.
Exemplar type - prop
Exemplar name - 0x5F85180B FvU CP TreesnShrubs
Building\prop family - 0x5F85180B
Then there are 13 prop exemplars.
These are the trees and shrubs. All of them are part in two prop families.
As an example I click on the first exemplar.
The TGI of this exemplar is: 6534284A, 42074A38, 150C5CF6
I see that all prop exemplars have the same T and apparently random G and I entries.
This prop exemplar file contains:
ParentCohort - with all three entries set to 0x00000000.
Then there are:
Exemplar type - prop
Exemplar name - FvU_CPCottonwoodLgEvergreen11x11x32
etc (not the issue here)
Building/prop family - 0x5F85180B,0x5F85180C
etc (not the issue here)
I have tried to understand what you told me.
I think you mean this:
The three cohort exemplars have no parent cohort and therefore their values are set to 0x00000000.
These three cohort exemplars are parents of several prop exemplars.
Somehow the Parent Cohort entry in the prop exemplar should have a reference to the correct cohort exemplar. That's my guess now. So do I have to enter the Instance ID of the cohort exemplar(s) into the parent cohort entry of the prop exemplar?
If the above prop exemplar had only one parent cohort I could do that easily. But what should I do now that the prop exemplar is part of two prop families? This means, as far as I can see, that it has two parent cohorts. But I cannot add a second parent cohort entry into the prop exemplar file.
I am sure I have setup the Building/prop exemplar correctly. I followed the tutorial exactly. I guess you can see that in the listings above. They do definitely work correct. The only thing that does not work is the name that shows up in LE.
Or is the only solution that I make new prop exemplars in such a way that each exemplar is only part of one prop family? That would mean that I have not 13 prop exemplars, each being part of two prop families, but 26 prop exemplars, each being part of one prop family.
If you consider that I am working on a large group of prop families (see my lot thread with now 28 new prop families and another bunch on the way) the exemplar list in LE and Pim-X will grow a large amount. Or is this not considered a problem?
I am taking a look at the files again. I also try to understand what you told me.
I open the FvU_CP_TreesnShrubs_PropFamily.dat file.
This file contains three prop families:
0x5f85180b CP Trees and shrubs - a number of trees and shrubs
0x5f85180c CP Trees - only the trees out of the upper family
0x5f85180d CP Shrubs - only the shrubs out of the upper family
In Reader I see:
Three cohort exemplars.
The TGI of the first cohort exemplar are: 05342861, 67BDDF0C, 6F85180B
The other two have the same Type, the same Group and the Instance ID's are related to the prop families they contain the names of.
When I click on the cohort exemplar each of the three contains:
ParentCohort - with all values in the right screen set to 0x00000000.
Exemplar type - prop
Exemplar name - 0x5F85180B FvU CP TreesnShrubs
Building\prop family - 0x5F85180B
Then there are 13 prop exemplars.
These are the trees and shrubs. All of them are part in two prop families.
As an example I click on the first exemplar.
The TGI of this exemplar is: 6534284A, 42074A38, 150C5CF6
I see that all prop exemplars have the same T and apparently random G and I entries.
This prop exemplar file contains:
ParentCohort - with all three entries set to 0x00000000.
Then there are:
Exemplar type - prop
Exemplar name - FvU_CPCottonwoodLgEvergreen11x11x32
etc (not the issue here)
Building/prop family - 0x5F85180B,0x5F85180C
etc (not the issue here)
I have tried to understand what you told me.
I think you mean this:
The three cohort exemplars have no parent cohort and therefore their values are set to 0x00000000.
These three cohort exemplars are parents of several prop exemplars.
Somehow the Parent Cohort entry in the prop exemplar should have a reference to the correct cohort exemplar. That's my guess now. So do I have to enter the Instance ID of the cohort exemplar(s) into the parent cohort entry of the prop exemplar?
If the above prop exemplar had only one parent cohort I could do that easily. But what should I do now that the prop exemplar is part of two prop families? This means, as far as I can see, that it has two parent cohorts. But I cannot add a second parent cohort entry into the prop exemplar file.
I am sure I have setup the Building/prop exemplar correctly. I followed the tutorial exactly. I guess you can see that in the listings above. They do definitely work correct. The only thing that does not work is the name that shows up in LE.
Or is the only solution that I make new prop exemplars in such a way that each exemplar is only part of one prop family? That would mean that I have not 13 prop exemplars, each being part of two prop families, but 26 prop exemplars, each being part of one prop family.
If you consider that I am working on a large group of prop families (see my lot thread with now 28 new prop families and another bunch on the way) the exemplar list in LE and Pim-X will grow a large amount. Or is this not considered a problem?
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: cogeo on November 26, 2010, 11:38:32 AM
Post by: cogeo on November 26, 2010, 11:38:32 AM
I think the TGI of the cohorts do not matter, they only need to be unique. I don't know if making IID equal to the PF ID causes problems though. So make the Group unique, eg 0xFAAE46C0B (this is a "stupid" mnemonic ID derived from your unsername FRANKU COHorts) - only check simcity_1.dat to make sure that the ID is unique, and then the IIDs may indicate your pack (you can use another mnemonic here, or allocate ranges like 0x0000001#, 0x0000002# etc).
The cohorts need to contain only three properties:
- Exemplar Type (= Prop)
- Exemplar Name (the name for the prop-family)
- Building/Prop Family (the prop-family ID). The Rep count should necessarily be 1 here.
So the only association between the cohort and the prop-family is the Building/Prop Family property.
Check the props in my Photovoltaic Power Plants, to see how this is done.
The cohorts need to contain only three properties:
- Exemplar Type (= Prop)
- Exemplar Name (the name for the prop-family)
- Building/Prop Family (the prop-family ID). The Rep count should necessarily be 1 here.
So the only association between the cohort and the prop-family is the Building/Prop Family property.
Check the props in my Photovoltaic Power Plants, to see how this is done.
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: FrankU on November 27, 2010, 04:47:39 AM
Post by: FrankU on November 27, 2010, 04:47:39 AM
Quote from: cogeo on November 26, 2010, 11:38:32 AM
I think the TGI of the cohorts do not matter, they only need to be unique. I don't know if making IID equal to the PF ID causes problems though. So make the Group unique, eg 0xFAAE46C0B (this is a "stupid" mnemonic ID derived from your unsername FRANKU COHorts) - only check simcity_1.dat to make sure that the ID is unique, and then the IIDs may indicate your pack (you can use another mnemonic here, or allocate ranges like 0x0000001#, 0x0000002# etc).
As far as I understand this is not a neccessary step?
Quote from: cogeo on November 26, 2010, 11:38:32 AM
The cohorts need to contain only three properties:
- Exemplar Type (= Prop)
- Exemplar Name (the name for the prop-family)
- Building/Prop Family (the prop-family ID). The Rep count should necessarily be 1 here.
So the only association between the cohort and the prop-family is the Building/Prop Family property.
As far as I understand the matter this is exactly what I have done. But the point is: a rep count of 1 appears when I use a prop exemplar in just one prop family (isn't it?), but I am trying to use prop exemplars in two or in even five prop families. Maybe there is something not clear in what I am trying to explain, or there is something in your advice (like in RippleJet's and BarbyW's advices) that I do not understand.
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: cogeo on November 28, 2010, 11:03:11 AM
Post by: cogeo on November 28, 2010, 11:03:11 AM
A prop may belong to more than one families, and in this case the Rep count of the Building/Prop Family property (in the prop exemplar) will, of course, be >1.
However these cohorts do only one job, which is to name the families, ie provide an ID-to-name correspondence. And this correspondence is of course 1:1. So the Rep count in the cohort must necessarily be 1.
However these cohorts do only one job, which is to name the families, ie provide an ID-to-name correspondence. And this correspondence is of course 1:1. So the Rep count in the cohort must necessarily be 1.
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: nekseb on January 07, 2011, 03:34:07 AM
Post by: nekseb on January 07, 2011, 03:34:07 AM
I wan't to make some car prop familys for my airport roads. Still waiting for an ID (no problem).
In the meantime I read the tut carefully and now I have one (maybe later more :D) question:
All the cars I wan't to put in one family are ortho, but some are aligned front to north, some front to south. Because I want to put them on roads what will happen, if I plop the lots?
Will be some cars on the "wrong" side of the street? ()what()
In the meantime I read the tut carefully and now I have one (maybe later more :D) question:
All the cars I wan't to put in one family are ortho, but some are aligned front to north, some front to south. Because I want to put them on roads what will happen, if I plop the lots?
Will be some cars on the "wrong" side of the street? ()what()
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: FrankU on January 07, 2011, 04:50:48 AM
Post by: FrankU on January 07, 2011, 04:50:48 AM
The props you put together in one prop family will be placed with the arrow in the same direction, so cars with the arrow to the back will be placed with the backside to the front. If you understand what I mean.
The prop size you see on LotEditor is the max width of the widest prop and the max depth of the deepest prop and the props will all be placed centered in this square.
The prop size you see on LotEditor is the max width of the widest prop and the max depth of the deepest prop and the props will all be placed centered in this square.
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: nekseb on January 07, 2011, 06:48:33 AM
Post by: nekseb on January 07, 2011, 06:48:33 AM
I viewed the props in PIMX and in the little window at the left corner below the front of the cars shows in different directions.
So best will be to plop the props first in LE on a Test-Lot to take a look in which direction the arrow of the single cars are point - back to front or front to back.
May be some Batter has load the reverse gear :D
Thanks
So best will be to plop the props first in LE on a Test-Lot to take a look in which direction the arrow of the single cars are point - back to front or front to back.
May be some Batter has load the reverse gear :D
Thanks
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: FrankU on January 07, 2011, 11:32:47 AM
Post by: FrankU on January 07, 2011, 11:32:47 AM
Hi Nekseb,
You maybe have found out that I published a set of prop families on the STEX lately.
When I was making them I started to plop all interesting props on a large testlot in Lot Editor. When you plop them you see the arrow. So there you can exactly see what props you can use together in one prop family.
If you look closely at my prop families you will find out that in some cases I had overseen the same problem: I have put some sheds together in one family that do not share the same location of the entrance. So in my lots you will find out that sometimes the entrance of the shed is directed away from the street....
You maybe have found out that I published a set of prop families on the STEX lately.
When I was making them I started to plop all interesting props on a large testlot in Lot Editor. When you plop them you see the arrow. So there you can exactly see what props you can use together in one prop family.
If you look closely at my prop families you will find out that in some cases I had overseen the same problem: I have put some sheds together in one family that do not share the same location of the entrance. So in my lots you will find out that sometimes the entrance of the shed is directed away from the street....
Title: Re: Creating your own prop Families (Extended version)
Post by: nekseb on January 08, 2011, 07:58:26 AM
Post by: nekseb on January 08, 2011, 07:58:26 AM
Hi FrankU,
I've seen your prop-familys at the STEX and thanks for your Tips!
...and now if checked the props I want to use. Great surprise - all possibilitys are used. :angrymore:
Placed all props with the same direction of the arrow. Some cars are correct, some are back to front, some left to right and some right to left. :thumbsdown:
OK - don't worry, new selection which one I will (can) use in one family must be done.
I've seen your prop-familys at the STEX and thanks for your Tips!
...and now if checked the props I want to use. Great surprise - all possibilitys are used. :angrymore:
Placed all props with the same direction of the arrow. Some cars are correct, some are back to front, some left to right and some right to left. :thumbsdown:
OK - don't worry, new selection which one I will (can) use in one family must be done.