Old Post:
I am Xyloxadoria on Simtropolis, i was told to post here because this is where the NAM Team is more active. I need some help to make my model. ()what() I started making retaining walls for the raised road onramps, but after trying to fix my model for a while I still have some slight problems. I used a custom LOD and I think it is the LOD that may be the problem. And also I deleted the interior faces (the ones facing the ramp) so the shadow of the wall displays as a thin line (only the top and side edge faces cast a shadow.) Here is a picture, if anyone could help me; I would be able to know what to do to make walls for the other NAM puzzle pieces as well here is a picture:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi229.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee171%2FChrisLSimpson%2Ftrianglething.jpg&hash=bfbe92302f43607865787f2c9241ec57828a0441)
EDIT: I have fixed the problems since posting this, scroll down to see development progress on this piece and other ones as well.
Might help if you also post pics of your models and lods.
It may help making separate pieces for the inner and the outer walls.
Also, make sure the retaining walls are only a maximum of 14.5m high. This may fix your problem, as the default highways [this includes the exits] are pathed and modeled .5m off the ground.
Ensure that the top of the retaining wall is .5m below the road bed, and you shouldn't have any issues.
Actually, the issue here is a bit more complicated, from what I can see. The models appear to be rendered through the standard BAT export process, which reduces the model to just a series of 2-dimensional isometric faces. This works perfectly fine for standard building models and props--the game can assemble a composite of these isometric faces for that purpose and you'd never know the difference.
However, transit models (with the exception of bridges) are assembled and exported in an entirely different manner--they need to be fully 3-dimensional, and thus, you cannot export them like a standard BAT model. If you do a standard export on them, it will end up like an M.C. Escher [link] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Escher_Waterfall.jpg) drawing. It will look correct from one angle, but you'll have things jutting out in weird locations in all other rotations, which seems to be the problem you are having. (I've run into this problem before as well. ;))
You will need to use a special BuildingMill.ms script before using the BAT Export in Gmax (which I've attached here). The safest way to do this would be to temporarily replace the existing BuildingMill.ms in your gmax\gamepacks\BAT\scripts folder when exporting transit models.
One other thing I should note--because this special export process does not reduce the model to isometric faces, you have to be very careful with your polygon count. redlotus, in his old Interchange Tutorial, noted that there is a limit (roughly 500-600 polys) where the game starts leaving out parts of the model, and I've even had situations where the game has outright crashed. So keep a close eye on the poly count when you're making your models. You only need to build the visible faces into the model in order for things to show up in all rotations, so I'd highly recommend using as many planes as possible.
Hope that helps!
-Alex (Tarkus)
PS--If you want to see redlotus' tutorial, it's hidden in an obscure corner of the Internet [link] (http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/redlotus5@sbcglobal.net/lst?.dir=/Public&.order=&.view=l&.src=bc&.done=http%3a//briefcase.yahoo.com/). I will warn you it's very, very dense reading, and a lot of things have changed since it was written (October 2004). But the information on model specifications, exporting concerns and the necessary IID schemes for puzzle pieces is still useful.
I changed the model so that there are only planar faces, it looks fine from one side:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi229.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee171%2FChrisLSimpson%2F0000.jpg&hash=d123c86b78118988d947c68f34614e7565ffa383)
But the other side is very dark, and the model appears to float off the ground:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi229.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee171%2FChrisLSimpson%2F0001.jpg&hash=7361f56b045c0397283c519a4efac86a7307ce6e)
Here is the LOD i am using:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi229.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee171%2FChrisLSimpson%2Flod.jpg&hash=45621b92e7d13d69805e324494a58612992f1e03)
I rendered it normally, without the other building mill file. The model (excluding the LOD's) is 216 polys. When i rendered with the other building mill script, the model still looked the same. Right now it is just plopped form a tile away, and it overhangs onto the ramp.
If you're just doing an overhang lot piece, you should be fine with the normal BuildingMill script--in fact, I'd recommend it. Switching to planes seems to have fixed a lot of the problems you had before. The darkness is probably from shadow effects in game. The slope may be what's causing the "floating" issue--you can adjust the slope conformity with the PIM when making a Desc file for the model, or in the Reader after the fact.
And with the other BuildingMill script, you won't notice a difference in the Lot Editor, but you will if you look at it in the Reader and rotate the model, or if you made a puzzle piece out of the model.
-Alex (Tarkus)
I'm probably wrong as I know nothing about BATing but isnt the LOD meant to be the opposite of what you showed? So the gaps should be the model.
Nope, The model is projected onto the outside of the LOD surfaces. I make most of my LODs slightly smaller than my model, if not exactly the same size.
So if I made a box 4x4x4 would the LOD be 4x4x4 or a big box box with hole in it 4x4x4?
Maybe these models could be included in the NAM models because they look more realistic (without the glitches) than the current ones to me, no offense to the person who made the current ones.
Your LOD would be a box 4x4x4 with a picture of your model shown on the outsides. Think of it like a 6 sided projection screen, in the shape of a box, and a photo of each side of the model projected on each screen.
I stated a thread at Simtropolis about these walls. Link (http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=124&threadid=97374) I will post updates in this thread here and in that thread at ST.
If you have any requests or suggestions about textures, or pieces you want, then post them here or at the ST Thread.
Update
Here are my latest pieces. I have a start end piece and a Over blank terrain piece:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi229.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee171%2FChrisLSimpson%2F0004.jpg&hash=5588bd22d39baad4d7e61f95b696099468c2d401)
PM me or request in this thread if you want a wall for any certain NAM piece or if you have any suggestions or other requests
Welcome To Sim City 4 Dovation Xyloxadoria.
Your Friend;
Mayor Of Steven's Point & Maxiston
(Pround To Be Cities Of Sim Nation!)
New Update
I have changed the textures, and i made a piece for going over a diagonal road:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi229.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee171%2FChrisLSimpson%2Fstrightoverdiag.jpg&hash=19bcecaca48717ce2d35443c4f23d3fa1138dbdd)
I also have began on the corner and straight "block' walls, it is not correct yet but here is my current progress:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi229.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee171%2FChrisLSimpson%2F0005.jpg&hash=0b3a75f233ff38c5aa03ef9aaa98cfa6f47c96e2)
looks real promising...
Wow, amazing work Xyloxadoria! It is so much better than the ones we currently have in the NAM!
-The centre support in the RHW overpass is my favorite so far. Keep it up!
Best,
-Haljackey
I have to say I really like what I'm seeing here. :thumbsup: I really like the new textures you've used--they're quite commonplace on RL overpasses that I've seen (at least here in Oregon). I'll second Hal here--keep it up!
-Alex (Tarkus)
This will be a very nice addition to the game.
Awesome! I was hoping some other pieces would get an overhaul ala the raised rail. Great job!
I like them very much. A nice texture would be something more mossy, so it looks a bit more weathered, maybe even with some graffiti on them.
oh yes these are awesome. maybe several different versions (the same with just slight details different and different textures) in the future would be awesome
Lookin pretty swish.. your doing a great job here :thumbsup:
Joe
These should defenately be included in the NAM, as they look perfect (no LOD thingys) as overhangs then they could easily be added in to the puzzle piece without cutting them up and such. Keep up the great work here. :thumbsup:
The newer textures are great. They match the look of the urban overpasses around here. These retaining walls add so much realism to the overpasses!
However, most of the retaining walls I've seen are sloped instead of vertical. That's just me being nitpicky; you're doing some awesome work here.
Wonderful job here! I'll definetively download them when they're released. They add a lot of realism to overspasses, as someone has stated before me. Keep it up and remember there's always room for improvement!
Quote from: quackmofro on March 05, 2008, 12:18:47 AM
However, most of the retaining walls I've seen are sloped instead of vertical. That's just me being nitpicky; you're doing some awesome work here.
You can always use slopes and on-slope ramps and some of the nice retaining wall lots out there.
That is true, and I do make the most of buddybud's and jeroni's walls, but there are certain situations where I can't make them work, namely the slopes under the overpasses.
Hey Xyloxadoria, I've just had an idea: Why don't you make a complete set of retaining walls? Your textures look so good, so I photoshopped an image to figure out how it would look like, and I have to say it seems excellent.
If you don't have in mind to make such a set, can you at least release your texture so i can make my own? Thanks in advance and keep your work up!
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg167.imageshack.us%2Fimg167%2F7425%2F88614192mw6.jpg&hash=e46e8f708ba423213091e44f7384f6cd276fe9d0)
great progress on the modelling :thumbsup:
I can't wait for this. This needs to be included with the NAM. This looks like every overpass I've seen in Oregon for the most part, and look way better than the normal NAM ones :D
Yeah, its time for walls straight up, thats what I've seen in reality. Realistically, I've seen walls of cement just like these pictured, next to roadways/highways, even when its not an overpass. The railroad pieces have gotten the treatement of new wall options, hopefully the same goes for this project to be included.
New Update
Well I have been busy with RLS for a while, so this isn't that big of an updat, but i just want to say that I am still working on this. Here are two more walls that i have made (click on them to see the full resolution)
I have made start/end walls for one way and road
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi229.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee171%2FChrisLSimpson%2F0006.jpg&hash=70ab88fcd228b3ea6bb9f7f5df79659537e7c7e9)
I have also began to make sunken highway walls, so far i have only made an avenue exit piece:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi229.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee171%2FChrisLSimpson%2F0007.jpg&hash=f978e2eccb8ae8bbbf967b95e1ade2165412affd)
I will probably make the rest of the sunken highway walls next, then try to figure out the diagonal NAM puzzle pieces.
WOW Xyloxadoria you are doing some neat stuff here for retaining walls on the NAM puzzle pieces to hide those boring poles, I think it gives that more realistic feel here with these walls..... Keep up the hard work on these!!!! If you need anyone to test anything out for you let me know and I would be happy to help out..
This is beautiful stuff, man. I retract my earlier statement. Most of the walls I've seen around lately are vertical like the ones you have made. The sunken walls look great, too. Keep up the good work!
don't want to offened by making a request that will be obvious, but, could i request simple orth/diag walls for straight raised av/road
thanks in advance,great work,
dave
Quote from: bighead99999 on March 31, 2008, 10:32:04 PM
don't want to offened by making a request that will be obvious, but, could i request simple orth/diag walls for straight raised av/road
thanks in advance,great work,
dave
I have already began to make walls for straight av/road. in my earlier post I wasn't able to figure out the right size to make them seamless, but now i have figured out the ave size. (I completley forgot that I did, so i never posted a pic, thanks for reminding me) But anyway here is a pic of walls for straight raised avenue:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi229.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee171%2FChrisLSimpson%2F0008.jpg&hash=c434587fd8f3351d0b9861234f4eed1a9db5a883)
WOW you really are very good Xyloxadoria!!!!
Excellent job X!
Xyloxadoria.......fantastic work.
&apls
Robin :thumbsup:
Xyloxadoria,
These are amazing! They really give NAM overpasses an extremely realistic feel.
I'm looking forward to what you come up with next, diagonals, perhaps?
Cheers,
Kevin
Really Really Really Really Really Really Really Really Really Really should be included in the NAM. They are very very very very awesome, and defentaley much much much better than the current ones.
These look incredible, but doesn't NAM have a no lots policy?
what i dont understand is why you dont just go the whole way and model new pieces for the elevated NAM networks... the ones we all use currently were only ever intended to be a temporary fix to test functionality. trouble is 7trumpets never got round to making the new models lol....
Yoman, you are correct that the NAM has a no-lots policy, so, as they currently stand, they would have to be issued as a third-party add-on, though, obviously, with the "endorsement" of a few NAM Team members (including myself). :)
As far as ways to actually include them in the NAM, that's a good question. If the models can be made to fit the guidelines in the Transit Modeling guide I wrote up (link in my sig), it may be possible to integrate them directly into the NAM.
There's also the possibility of T21ing the retaining walls on, too, in which case they could work similar to MIncroabl's El-Rail Facelift mod.
Some of the pieces (the Sunken Highway Avenue Exit piece) would probably be best integrated the way Xyloxadoria's currently doing, though, due to how that piece is structured.
Regardless, they look fantastic. :thumbsup:
-Alex (Tarkus)
Quote from: Tarkus on April 01, 2008, 01:05:51 PM
There's also the possibility of T21ing the retaining walls on, too, in which case they could work similar to MIncroabl's El-Rail Facelift mod.
Regardless, they look fantastic. :thumbsup:
I would support this option, since it would give us the option to have different models for different environements ( zone wealth/density related) in a quite easy way... some nice stone walls like the ones in the pictures for high wealth areas, and some dirty concrete ones for the low weatlh ones... just dreaming ::)
X, excellent work with the models so far, keep them coming :thumbsup:
Quote from: jeronij on April 01, 2008, 02:24:04 PM
I would support this option, since it would give us the option to have different models for different environements ( zone wealth/density related) in a quite easy way... some nice stone walls like the ones in the pictures for high wealth areas, and some dirty concrete ones for the low weatlh ones... just dreaming ::)
X, excellent work with the models so far, keep them coming :thumbsup:
I also think that using T21's would be the best way to go as well. I was thinking of doing a low wealth version of my walls as well. Here is a pic:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi229.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee171%2FChrisLSimpson%2F0009.jpg&hash=45ef77a8bde28ac48324ba202773bce64516a5f7)
I don't know if it is very realistic (There is only a year old bridge that looks like the high wealth version around here)
I just know what t21's are and what they can do but i don't have the slightest clue as to using them. Is there a tutorial on using T21's or someone i could get help from? I assume you would need a low poly count. The wall in the pic i just posted is 170 polys. Is that low enough, i heard that the upper limit was around 600
on a side note i am going to be busy with RLS for a while again so I might not have updates for a while.
Xyloxadoria that indeed is something else wow!!! I do hope you could do some small updates once and in awhile here and take it easy with RL....
Well, with the T21s, they basically add props to the network piece, so the poly count doesn't apply. The only issue is that you'd have to be careful with placing the pieces with the T21s on slopes.
Swamper77 did a tutorial on T21s awhile ago, which jeronij posted here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=70.0). For the settings on the T21, since you're probably going to want them to show up under every tile, you'd want to set the kPropertyID_NetworkPlacementPattern to 0x0F, 0x0F, 0x0F, 0x0F. You can also control the wealth levels and zone types the T21s show up under as listed in the tutorial. You will likely be able to just copy the existing T21s for the puzzle pieces out of the NAM .dat files, and paste the appropriate LotConfig info from your lots into those T21s.
Hope that helps!
-Alex (Tarkus)
I LIKE IT.
A LOT.I agree with putting it in as a T21, but only once the project has been completed. As long as Xyloxadoria is still working on it, I think that they should be made available in the same format that they are now (overhanging props with a seemingly blank lot) in certain installments as work progresses. The reason I say this is because, unless it will be released all at once as a T21, it would look strange if partially released as a T21 without all the elevated puzzle pieces etc. having the retaining wall, unless there were a transition piece for the wall to end while the network is still elevated. (Of course, this does not include FHW onramps and interchanges - they only have a little bit of elevated network, and that little bit cannot be moved or lengthened or repeated like a puzzle-piece network can)
Keep up the good work!
-said the nerd
Wow, excellent update Xyloxadoria!
Having two styles (low and high wealth) seem a bit excessive right now to me though. It seems like a nice addition, but one will be enough for me.
Best of luck with the project!
-Haljackey
Xyloxadoria, i do like it. any chance of throwing in some pavement/whatever underneath the nam pieces? bit like buddybuds work. of course you don't have to since this is already great work! :satisfied:
New Update
Replies
bighead99999: I will consider adding concrete to the sunken highway walls i am making, but probably not to the NAM Raised Road Walls
Progress
Ive been working on some sunken highway walls, and if i use the same vertical wall in the raised roads, it hides the side closest to the wall.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi229.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee171%2FChrisLSimpson%2F0012.jpg&hash=405d5d981e0c7a2b87d0eab0bf8e3d9909362d97)
i don't know why there is a "hole" between just one segment like that, when all the others are seamless.
I have tried to do T21's for the raised roads but i have only been able to figure out to the point that you make a lot with the props on it. After that, i don't know how to add it to the actual NAM "Network Lot" file. I know which file to add it to (I think) I just can figure out how to get it to appear correctly.
I have a couple of questions with other things giving me trouble:
Do I have to render each piece out with the model centered at 0,0 for a 1x1 puzzle piece?
Which network lot should i use for puzzle pieces that are bigger than 1x1 in size?
Do I leave the zone and wealth blank if i want it to appear everywhere?
That wall looks good. Keep Up the great work.
Quote from: Xyloxadoria on April 22, 2008, 04:12:46 PM
I have a couple of questions with other things giving me trouble:
Do I have to render each piece out with the model centered at 0,0 for a 1x1 puzzle piece?
Which network lot should i use for puzzle pieces that are bigger than 1x1 in size?
Do I leave the zone and wealth blank if i want it to appear everywhere?
To use your walls with T21's for the puzzle pieces:
- The walls must be centered at the origin in GMAX/BAT at 0,0 with the base of the walls at ground level. They should also be cut-up into 1 tile lengths so they will stay with each section of the puzzle pieces that are larger than 1x1. All network tiles are 1x1 (16 meters on a side). There is no such thing as a "bigger network tile".
- For use with all zones and wealths, you have to specify them all:
Zones: 0x00,0x01,0x02,0x03,0x04,0x05,0x06,0x07,0x08,0x09,0x0A,0x0B,0x0C,0x0E,0x0F
Wealths: 0x00,0x001,0x02,0x03
The descriptions for all of these numbers are located in this tutorial: How to create T21 exemplars (Swamper77's way) (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=70.0)
-Swamper
I agree that using T21's is a good way to do it. There are a few details that you need to know.
You need the NetworkTileId values for the T21's. The ID values are hard to find if you don't know
the internal structure of the NAM. Of course you can always ask!
Many of the NAM tiles already have one or more T21's. If so, you will need to modify them to add
the LotConfigPropertyLotObject for your own prop.
Most of the NAM models flex to match the terrain. This means that you should specify a pivot point
in your prop exemplar. It also means that your prop should not be too big. (For example, it might
work if it covers 3 tiles, but you might need to break it into separate props for each tile)
As an example, here are the ID's for the orthogonal rotations of the road ramp puzzle piece (3 tiles):
0X5020a000 (T21's: 0X5020a000, 0X5020a001, 0X5020a002, 0X5020a003)
0X5020a100 (T21's: 0X5020a100, 0X5020a101, 0X5020a102, 0X5020a103)
0X5020a200 (T21's: 0X5020a200, 0X5020a201, 0X5020a202, 0X5020a203)
As shown, each road ramp tile already has 4 T21's. You can find them in NetworkAddonMod3.dat
Yes, nice wall there! And nice progress on it! :thumbsup:
Nice profect!!! &apls :thumbsup:
But your grass textural it's not beautiful... Take in the grass textural basic no??
Xyloxadoria that is looking real good there!!!
I havent been working on this for a while becuse i have finals this week. I will resume work next week, but i have a three letter acronym (becaue most things do) it is the VFM
Viaduct
Facelift
Mod
Ill post progress when i start back again.
Can't wait for you to resume work here Xyloxadoria and take it easy with those finals!!! Study hard!!!
Xyloxadoria, I think what you are doing here is amazing! I do have one little suggestion though. Maybe make the Sunken Highway retainers angled a bit (not necessarily 45 degrees) so that we can see more of the road in-game. Of course, thats just imho. It's your [totally awesome] project, and it's up to you what to do. Keep up the outstanding work and good luck with those finals! I hear statistically, 'Answer C' has a 7% greater chance of being right when you're going off a blind shot in the dark! :thumbsup:
I have started again and i think i am doing what i need to do correctly. The prop that i made is just a 16x16 box with a height of 20 (15 above ground and 5 below ground) From what i understood form swamper's tutorial, and what has been said before, i have to copy the LotConfigPropertyLotObject from my lot (it only has one because there is only that single prop) to the appropriate file that is listed in the exemplar analyzer with the t 21 filter on. I understand that part but dint know if there is more than that to do. (I don't understand the pivot thing) Anyway, since most of the straight piecies are just a 1x1 block with a 16x16x15 space under it, could i just copy the same prop to all such files, or would i have to make a seprate copy for each lot? Also, is roadramp 1 or roadramp 3 the lowest (the one that starts the incline)
Post if you can answer my questions or if i am t21ing wrong. Right now i am just copying the porp into the networkaddonmod3.dat file directly, then i will copy all the files with that additional prop in them to a separate dat file. If that is not the right way to do it then post with the right way.
Looking good here Xyloxadoria. I hope this will be include in the next NAM update
:thumbsup:
Welcome to UDPX my friend. Will these walls pursue under the UDPX label?
Whoa :o
Keep at this, I can't help, but I would totally use this. A little rough but this is complex AFAICT. Lovely work.
Replies:
deion30296:No. Not at the moment, since i have already got help from the NAM people and this is an addon to the NAM, it will have the NAM name.
Progress:
There is a poll now, vote here (http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=124&threadid=97374&STARTPAGE=1) the winning color and finish will be what i use. I am almost done with figuring out what models i need to make for all the straight viaducts. I will finalize the models and make sure they fit using lots this week and next week I will also try to figure out t21ing. The week after that i will be gone so on July 14th when i get back, i will render out the models with the winning texture and color and start t21ing them. Vote for what you want, the poll is explained at the top of my very first post.
Oi, They are still wonderful though! &apls &apls &apls &apls &apls &apls &apls
If I may ask, what are you releasing under our label? Pretty soon I'll be releasing the ski wires as a BETA version! &hlp
I can't wait to download it. :)
I've been lurking on this thread for a while and it looks there's nothing going on the last months. Is that true? Or are you working hard on it?
I got no idea?No replys yet.
Xyloxadoria hasn't logged on here in almost a month. I would strongly suggest that everyone refrain from posting further in this thread until he returns.
-Alex (Tarkus)
After some RL stuff i finally have some models to T21. They are attached.
New Pic
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi229.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee171%2FChrisLSimpson%2Fnewwalls.jpg%3Ft%3D1227155482&hash=0cb210d2cb5d5b875262450469e833d9803676de)
Edit: Attachment Issues
Interesting...
Lookin' real, lookin' great. :thumbsup: Glad you finally could return, and not to mention bringing the project back. In the future this will be interesting to see how it looks with the upcoming RHW, for an added dose of realism. This will make alot of people happy.
Great Update! &apls
These are absolutely perfect! Well... almost... Their color seems a little bluish... but that's the only problem I can see - everything else is excellent, and I can't wait to test them in-game... &apls
Unfortanetely, only the model files are in there, and since no T21dat, it would seem the files here don't show up in game, for now.
I almost have the props working now, but there is a problem. It seems the only way to get any props at all to appear on the viaducts is if there is some kind of lot directly beside it. I have used the exemplars that should make the walls always appear, but they only appear when there is a lot beside them.
EDIT: Thought it would be helpful to some people if i posted a pic of my T21 file:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi40.tinypic.com%2F14cd7id.jpg&hash=8f72067aabc5d40b1376662319b5109de745c064)
Problem found: Add 0x00 in the LotConfigZoneTypes sequence.
Yay, so you mean the walls are finished ?
Hope so :)
Jonathan
Xyloxadoria, I am very happy that you were able to accomplish this. I have been attempting this for a while and had asked many for help. I would really like to know how you were able to find the location value to attach your models as I was unable to. It helps to be able to actually see the item that you are trying to T-21!
Jayson
Well i figured out what one of the errors was but the props are still not showing up at all. The error I had was that 0x5020A702 was alredy taken. (there was another T21 i didn't see) I increased it to the next available value, and its still not showing up at all. The 0x00 doesn't seem to be the issue because it is not showing up in any zone types at all. The piece that I'm doing it to is the road over blank terrain.
I think it might have something to do with my prop. I put it on a blank lot, then copied the Lotobject to my t21 file, and deleted the old one. After a re index lot config and a resave it still seems to be doing noting.
Xyloxadoria, I did a quick check and found 4 T21s for 0x5020A700 that add streetlights. If you want to add a prop, you will need to add it to all four T21's and then add a fifth T21 with the properties set so it will only be used when there is no street light on that tile.
Jayson, the puzzle piece is: RoadxStraight Blank PuzzlePiece
Quote from: smoncrie on February 01, 2009, 04:14:58 PM
Xyloxadoria, I did a quick check and found 4 T21s for 0x5020A700 that add streetlights. If you want to add a prop, you will need to add it to all four T21's and then add a fifth T21 with the properties set so it will only be used when there is no street light on that tile.
Jayson, the puzzle piece is: RoadxStraight Blank PuzzlePiece
Problem is , I have no idea how to get it visible to actually attach the wall models ...importing as 3ds and then rendering doesn't work (for me anyway even doing what Swamper suggested to me ) , and from what I was told , no one seems to have the actual models anymore. I can figure out the rest if I had something as a reference. That was why I was wondering how he was able to get a prop placement , cause I am clueless.
Jayson
Jayson, to find reference points on an S3D I use the vertex data in reader. To check if I have found the vertex I want, I often add 10 to one of the coordinates, if this makes it move, then I have found it.
It is also possible to make an S3D into a prop. The prop exemplar must use Resource Key type 0 (not Resource Key type 1). You must also add the property: kSc4BuildingModelRotationProperty to the prop exemplar. I don't think the value of the property maters, but it makes more sense to give it a value of 1.
Quote from: smoncrie on February 01, 2009, 05:14:34 PM
Jayson, to find reference points on an S3D I use the vertex data in reader. To check if I have found the vertex I want, I often add 10 to one of the coordinates, if this makes it move, then I have found it.
Wayyyy over my head, sorry ()what()
Quote from: smoncrie on February 01, 2009, 05:14:34 PM
It is also possible to make an S3D into a prop. The prop exemplar must use Resource Key type 0 (not Resource Key type 1). You must also add the property: kSc4BuildingModelRotationProperty to the prop exemplar. I don't think the value of the property maters, but it makes more sense to give it a value of 1.
Now, I understand that...I noticed that the puzzle piece instances all had Resource Key type 0 so I thought that might be something (I also had tried Resource Key Type 3 , as I also noticed that on a few exemplars for other stuff.)
Jayson
I really suck at BATting!!!!
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi180.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx262%2Fsithlrd98%2FSucsess.jpg&hash=2dc4769f0bcc379f98ea10306757719f8307c860)
But at least its T-21 ed :P
And I know this looks messy but....
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi180.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx262%2Fsithlrd98%2Fexemp.jpg&hash=02597b6dfe9f11a2e3139bd433371fcb4148ebb6)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi180.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx262%2Fsithlrd98%2Fexemp2.jpg&hash=3dfa204b5841fbe4f87d1625b17bd9baa08f74f6)
Jayson
Hey you figurred it out. Thanks for all the help guys. Oh and about your BATing, its kind of hard it took me a while to get where I am now. Its probably the same for modding. Anyway if you could attach the files that you used, ill look at them and i can figure out what i did wrong (I think) Ive made compltley new models sicne thoose (they were too blue) so i can put them on now that its figured out.
Just in case anyone else wants to see...i've already e-mailed Zylo , but here you go.
Jayson
Jayson,
I am afraid your solution is not correct - you can see that there always a streetlight on every tile.
I have listed the important data from the 4 current T21s:
#1:Exemplar Name lights_odd_RoadxStraight_Blank_PuzzlePiece
kPropertyID_NetworkPlacementPattern 0x04,0x08,0x01,0x02
LotConFigPropertyZoneTypes 0x01,0x02,0x03,0x04,0x05,0x06,0x08,
0x09,0x0A,0x0B,0x0C,0x0D,0x0E,0x0F
LotConfigPropertyWealthTypes 0x00,0x01,0x02,0x03
kPropertyID_RotationsAllowed 0x03
Prop Position: (7.7, 2.5)
#2:Exemplar Name lights_even_RoadxStraight_Blank_PuzzlePiece
kPropertyID_NetworkPlacementPattern 0x01,0x02,0x04,0x08
LotConFigPropertyZoneTypes 0x01,0x02,0x03,0x04,0x05,0x06,0x08,
0x09,0x0A,0x0B,0x0C,0x0D,0x0E,0x0F
LotConfigPropertyWealthTypes 0x00,0x01,0x02,0x03
kPropertyID_RotationsAllowed 0x03
Prop Position: (7.7, 13.6)
#3:Exemplar Name lights_odd_R_RoadxStraight_Blank_PuzzlePiece
kPropertyID_NetworkPlacementPattern 0x04,0x08,0x01,0x02
LotConFigPropertyZoneTypes 0x01,0x02,0x03,0x04,0x05,0x06,0x08,
0x09,0x0A,0x0B,0x0C,0x0D,0x0E,0x0F
LotConfigPropertyWealthTypes 0x00,0x01,0x02,0x03
kPropertyID_RotationsAllowed 0x0C
Prop Position: (7.7, 13.6)
#4:Exemplar Name lights_even_R_RoadxStraight_Blank_PuzzlePiece
kPropertyID_NetworkPlacementPattern 0x01,0x02,0x04,0x08
LotConFigPropertyZoneTypes 0x01,0x02,0x03,0x04,0x05,0x06,0x08,
0x09,0x0A,0x0B,0x0C,0x0D,0x0E,0x0F
LotConfigPropertyWealthTypes 0x00,0x01,0x02,0x03
kPropertyID_RotationsAllowed 0x0C
Prop Position: (7.7, 2.5)
Now in all 4 you can see they are valid for any wealth and any zone except None and Farms.
All of them are valid for only two rotations, but #1 and #2 are valid for different rotations than #3 and #4.
All of them are valid for only one out of four tiles (placement pattern), but the valid tile for #2 is offset by two tiles compared to #1. There is the same offset between #4 and #3.
#1 and #3 are the same except for rotation and prop is on the opposite side.
#2 and #4 are the same except for rotation and prop is on the opposite side.
To sum up together these 4 T21s will place a streetlights every two tiles but each successive streetlight is on the opposite side of the road. The reason 4 T21s are needed is that the Prop is rotated to the other side when the puzzle piece is rotated by 180 degrees. The extra two T21s compensate for this.
Now if you want a prop on every tile, you certainly need to have the prop on every tile that has a street light, so you need to add it to the 4 current T21s.
The Prop will then only be on every other tile. So there must be a fifth T21 with a kPropertyID_NetworkPlacementPattern of 0x0A,0x05,0x0A,0x05 (every other tile; the ones without streetlights) and a kPropertyID_RotationsAllowed of 0x0F (all rotations; you don't need to place the prop on alternate sides of the road, and so puzzle piece rotation does not matter, at least I hope it doesn't matter)
Oh yes we still don't have the prop for zones None and Farms, so we need a sixth T21 for this case. kPropertyID_NetworkPlacementPattern sould be 0x0F,0x0F,0x0F,0x0F (all tiles) kPropertyID_RotationsAllowed should be 0x0F (all rotations) and LotConFigPropertyZoneTypes 0x00,0x07 (None and Farms)
I was merely trying to get the walls to appear in game and to give Xyloxadoria a basis so he could see that particular exemplar setup. I didn't change the other exemplars , except for the addition of the wall prop info. I am still learning T-21 , and the only real experience I have is doing the NAM curves. But I agree if your gonna do it , do it right :thumbsup: Thanks for the heads up on the other exemplar setups as it will make it easier to correct the thrown together .DAT !
One question, for Prop Position: are those the values you were trying to explain earlier with finding reference points on S3D vertex data in reader? I really need to learn that trick!
Jayson
Edit Alright , so after looking through NAM .dat3 again , I noticed I made a mistake with numbering of the instance 0x5020A700....and I also looked through the exemplars and noticed the 4 that were originally noted. So , I re-numbered my original mistake and added the last two that you had noted to be needed. Somewhere I have missed something because the lights are still on every tile , on one side. Please keep in mind that the only change to the existing exemplars : 0x5020A700 , 701,702,703 was the addition of the wall prop. So at this time here are the details.
0x5020A704 every other tile; the ones without streetlights
kPropertyID_NetworkPlacementPattern 0x0A,0x05,0x0A,0x05
LotConfigPropertyZoneTypes 0x01,0x02,0x03,0x04,0x05,0x06,0x08,0x09,0x0A,0x0B,0x0C,0x0D,0x0E,0x0F
LotConfigPropertyWealthTypes 0x00,0x01,0x02,0x03
kPropertyID_RotationsAllowed 0x0F
0x5020A705 None and Farms
kPropertyID_NetworkPlacementPattern 0x0F,0x0F,0x0F,0x0F
LotConfigPropertyZoneTypes 0x00,0x07
LotConfigPropertyWealthTypes 0x00,0x01,0x02,0x03
kPropertyID_RotationsAllowed 0x0F
Also, every exemplar kPropertyID_LotConfigNetworkTileId is pointing to 0x5020A700
Do you see something I missed?
Jayson
OK , I feel real dumb right about now.....I forgot one simple thing , power. When the pieces are plopped now , they appear to be working incorectly (like previous pic) but once a lot is placed next to it ....
*Still using jacked-up prop placement cause I still can't BAT :) *
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi180.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx262%2Fsithlrd98%2FUntitled-1-2.jpg&hash=b66c862287c0927395500ee97581d2f767e1b4ee)
So at least it is working more correctly than it was , just not sure about the original plop state?
Jayson
Edit: Attached corrected (kinda) .DAT
It looks like things are coming along!
You've been working on this project since like forever Xyloxadoria! Everyone can't wait to use this! But, of course, take your time with it. Its great to see others helping out with this project too! :thumbsup:
All the best,
-Haljackey
hey jayson......
i received a very good explanation from cogeo in a PM some time ago...i thought it may be useful to help you locate the props correctly. :)
LotConfigPropertyLotObject (http://www.modthesims2.com/wiki.php?title=LotConfigPropertyLotObject)
you should be familiar with this line of the T21 to some degree....
here's how cogeo explained it to me:
Quote1: Always 0x00000001 for props (0=building, 1=prop, 2=texture, 4=flora, 7=TE)
2: Level of detail (set to 0x00000000 to have the prop displayed in all cases)
3: Rotation, values 0x00000000-0x00000003
4: X-Position of the prop (centre)
5: Z-Position of the prop (set to 0 for ground-level placement)
6: Y-Position of the prop (centre)
7: X-Position of the blue rectangle's upper-left corner
8: Y-Position of the blue rectangle's upper-left corner
9: X-Position of the blue rectangle's bottom-right corner
10: Y-Position of the blue rectangle's bottom-right corner
11: Don't know, but I think it's always zero
12: Sequence. Better use LE-generated IDs here.
13: Instance ID of the prop exemplar
14+: Optional, list of additional prop IDs, the game chooses randomly which one to display when the lot is plopped/grown.
So in order to move a prop you have to edit reps 4-10. The prop's position is basically reps 4-6 (X-Z-Y). The origin of coordinates is the upper-left corner of the lot. Please note that the first four digits contain the coordinate value in whole meters, while the rest four are subdivisions, ie sth like the digits after the decimal point in decimal notation, but here in hex. So a value of, say, 3.5m would be entered as 0x00038000 (0x00008000 is half a meter), 3.25m (ie 3 and 1/4) would be 0x00034000 and so on. A value of 0x00001000 is 1/16 of a meter (that simple!). A value of 0x00080000 would move the prop to the centre of the tile (they are 16m large).
Therefore in order to have a consistent set of values, you have to set reps 4-6 to the desired prop's position, AND reps 7-10 according to the prop's dimensions. As the latter doesn't really matter so much, you can make things simpler, eg make the blue rectangle exactly 1x1m large, so it's upper-left and bottom-right corner would be 0.5m off it's centre. So if reps 4-6 were:
4: 0x00012000
5: 0x00000000
6: 0x00070000
then reps 7-10 would be:
7: 0x0000A000 (0x00012000-0x00008000)
8: 0x00068000 (0x00070000-0x00008000)
9: 0x0001A000 (0x00012000+0x00008000)
10: 0x00078000 (0x00070000+0x00008000)
I don't think it's needed to make accurate conversions from and to decimal numbers, it should be more than enough to try playing with the 4th and 5th digits only (set all others to 0), this has enough range (covering the whole tile) and gives you an accuracy of 1/16th of a meter which is very satisfactory. I mean you can move your props in steps of 1/16 of a meter (0x00001000). Also it's not necessary to make the prop 1x1m while you are testing for the best position, as calculations can be puzzling. You can instead make them 2x2, in this case the rectangle's corners would be 1m off the centre, so calculations would be easy. After you are done positioning the props you can make the rectangle 1x1 again.
hope this helps some....
-ryan
Jayson, I had a look at your zzz WallForNAM.dat file. Everything is looks fine, except that you included the streetlights in the last two T21s. They were added for the cases were you don't have streetlights, so they should not add more streetlights! Without the extra streetlights everything looks OK.
As Choco said, the prop positions in my previous post were from the LotConfigPropertyLotObject property.
You can convert the coordinates in LotConfigPropertyLotObject using the Windows calculator in scientific mode. To do this, put the calculator in Hex mode, paste in the hexadecimal coordinates, switch the calculator to Dec mode, and divide the number by 65536 (This is Hex 10000). The result will be the coordinate in meters. There is an additional step required if the value is negative (if the first hex digit is greater than 7): In this case, before you divide by 65536, you must first subtract 4294967296 (This is Hex 100000000). E.g. 00008000 should give you 0.5 and FFF90000 should give you -7.
To go the other way, Put the calculator in Dec mode, enter the number, multiply it by 65536, and put the calculator in Hex mode. If the number was negative, there will be a bunch of leading "F"s. Ignore them and just use the last 8 digits.
Thanks Choco...I had come across that awhile back but at the time , most of it was far more info than I needed. It helped me to understand a few things when it came to messing with lots.
smoncrie Thats what happens when you get flustered and rush I guess! :D I am slightly busy with r/l for a couple of days and plan on actually trying to get the models I have from the original project correctly done so that Xyloxadoria can decide which direction to go. Thanks for your extra knowledge on this ! :thumbsup:
Jayson
Thanks for your help. I got it to work. The lamposts still work, i just didn't bother putting any lots in the pic for some reason
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.tinypic.com%2F2ntvaro.jpg&hash=d2d85b388beff264bc5ffa8ba4898b9ad7d7137a)
Great job! If you still need a little help , I think I know what I'm doing now! :D
Jayson
I havent been posting in here because ive been busy with other projects regading RTMT now that im on the team. This project isn't dead yet, but its on hold for now.