Rebuild the SC4D Website

[indovote]

Dear SC4D webmasters, the SC4D site look old (but not looking too old), so I suggest you to rebuild the SC4D website with some of the following considerations:
- Security
  Now, the website security need is more than before. So, the new SC4D website must have better security by using good security reputation web software (I recommend to use Node.js (nodejs.org) & Hapi.js (hapijs.com) because they have good security reputation & trusted by many companies), penetration testing (either test by the site team self or hold a security bug hunting), handling security report with care (don't disclose until is fixed), using SSL certificate, handling user data with care, adding DDoS protection, coding the site securely, etc.
- Responsive web design (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsive_web_design)
  Now, many site has been following Responsive web design. I suggest you to rebuild SC4D sitewith Responsive Web Design.
- Accessibility
  Not only focus RWD, SC4D website must considerate accessibility. So, slightly-disabled peoples can access the website easily.
- Unification 
The LEX is not separate of SC4D. The new LEX is part of SC4D, so the user can use their account for downloading lots. Also the SC4D Encyclopedia will be part of SC4D and renamed to SC4D Wiki (due to confusion between word 'Wiki', in the quick access button which located
under secondary nav. menu and 'Encyclopedia', in the page)
- Clean & tidy
  The new SC4D site must be clean & tidy, so the user can access the site sections without any confusions.
- Seamless & no confusion
  This consideration may be related to previous considerations
  The new SC4D site must be seamless & less or no confusion. If founded many critical site bugs, it can decrease User Experience (UX).
- Scalability
  May be related to previous considerations
  The new SC4D site must be hosted to cloud to prevent scaling issues (including bandwidth issue).
- Flat design with active color
  The new SC4D site must be have flat design with active color, don't use flat design but with dead color.
- Tutorial Center
  The new SC4D will have Tutorial Center, so the user get SC4 tutorial in SC4D easily.
- CJ Center
  The CJ Center is a brand-new section that specially for CJs.
- other consideration welcome...

I hope you to rebuilt the website with these considerations.

The new site will be updated but not too frequently (like ST). Also, it will run when required & tested seriously.

The new site will retain many basics of SC4D (e.g. power search, dependencies tracker).

Regards,
indovote (Zaydan Naufal)

Edit 01/11/2016: Due constructive critics from the replier, I changed the word 'disabled people' with 'slight-disabled people'.
Note: Sorry if I' am misspelling because I' am not native English speaker. I just suggest, not force you, so you can accept or decline my suggestion. The update disclaimer is added because of the replier said that SC4D update will same like ST but it is not.

[compdude787]

Sure, it may be old, but who cares? Personally, I hate it when sites change their look frequently, especially when there was nothing wrong with the way the site used to look. A site upgrade is going to cause many problems and bugs, and some features may no longer exist. For example, Simtropolis' new site does not have a way to display awards, whereas the previous version of the site software did have this feature. The site was upgraded in June 2015, and this feature still hasn't been restored.

I know that SC4 Devotion itself looks a bit dated, but the LEX looks and feels quite modern. I'm not sure why you thought that the LEX looks old. One thing I do agree with you about is that the LEX should have the same login as the main SC4D website.

Sorry to totally shoot down your suggestion to upgrade this site (I'm not an admin here; they may think differently about this), but I hate it when web developers decide to upgrade their site for little reason besides "it's old." If it ain't broke, why fix it?

[indovote]

Sure, it may be old, but who cares? Personally, I hate it when sites change their look frequently, especially when there was nothing wrong with the way the site used to look. A site upgrade is going to cause many problems and bugs, and some features may no longer exist. For example, Simtropolis' new site does not have a way to display awards, whereas the previous version of the site software did have this feature. The site was upgraded in June 2015, and this feature still hasn't been restored.

I know that SC4 Devotion itself looks a bit dated, but the LEX looks and feels quite modern. I'm not sure why you thought that the LEX looks old. One thing I do agree with you about is that the LEX should have the same login as the main SC4D website.

Sorry to totally shoot down your suggestion to upgrade this site (I'm not an admin here; they may think differently about this), but I hate it when web developers decide to upgrade their site for little reason besides "it's old." If it ain't broke, why fix it?

I fixed the word. The site is not old (maybe built 2011, I see on copyright date), but look old (except for LEX, it use Bootstrap, so look modern). 'Upgrade suggestion' mean not run regularly, so the look is same for long time (but not very very very long time, e.g. the look is same from 1995 to 2016).
In short word: the site will change when required.

[dragonshardz]

Offers of help would be more convincing than demands to change something that isn't broken.

Comment edited per Site Rule #13. Please find a better way to express your disagreement with someone, rather than being confrontational. -APSMS

[mgb204]

Let's not get into an argument over what are suggestions.

My 2cts...

Personally I wish for the SC4D site to stay exactly how it is for the most part.

Security must be pretty decent, because we're not infected with nasties. To my knowledge, some spam aside, such issues have never really occurred.

Totally agree with compdude787. I find the continual tinkering at ST really adds nothing, but seems to keep taking features away. Worse still, so many links are out of date it makes life a lot harder than it really needs to be. Search is useless, I never even try, I just use Google instead. By comparison search on the LEX is fantastic, the custom Google search never fails as a last resort. The dependency tracker is such a useful tool, granted it's not complete, but it's an example of heading in the right direction.

If there is one thing I would like to change, that would be making some of the information here easier to find. A lot of info pertaining to modding is scattered and can be hard to track down unless you know which post contains it. But that's not really a fault per-se, just the reality of a site that's been around a while. Most of the common stuff is stickied, it's just the more complex things, often that few remaining members could elaborate upon that can be difficult to find.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[JoeST]

This isn't me saying that you're a bad person for suggesting these things, just bringing up some counter points.

- Security
The forum software is a free thing from years ago, possibly no longer maintained. I totally agree that it would be better if it were updated to be secure, but the staff have limited time and moving forum software would a) break many links (including google searches) b) take a heck of a lot of time and effort and c) probably alienate most of the regulars who actually like how the site works right now.

Oh and magically changing to node.js wouldn't fix anything; I'd guess the development tools available make it potentially harder to break the code, but you're saying rewrite the whole site from scratch in a different language and runtime, and you'd have to move to a different host (or at least, be running on something you could run node.js on instead) and transfering the TB's of LEX data and forum posts would be a nightmare, for an already busy (with real life) staff. Even with tooling it'd probably bring about 10x as many bugs and security flaws.

- Responsive web design
I believe CasperVG has been updating the LEX at least to be somewhat responsive. It's probably possible to make a forum skin be just as responsive, but is it worth it? 

- Accessibility
This would be a laudable goal: accessibility, internationalisation and localisation are great to make sites more usable to everyone tbh. But this would require huge and deep changes to the forum software, which is still just an old and possibly outdated free software. It would be possible to add to the LEX which is custom code, but you'd have to convince CasperVG

- Unification 
this would be technically plausible, other than the fairly large effort into converting one site to use the other logins. it would also sacrifice the separation of code bases (which I can agree to being less optimal in terms of security, having two flawed security systems to look after is worse than one? but) having to integrate the LEX into forum software while possible (I've done it before, years ago) is small reward? having to log in to the forum using LEX accounts would be totally infeasible.

- Clean & tidy
A design change like this I would totally be down for, but it a) alienates users b) changes the brand and c) clean and tidy probably reduces ad revenue since ads totally destroy a clean look.

- Flat design with active color
- Seamless & no confusion
A very laudable goal indeed. Small tweaks to the skins and UX would be worth it, but this hinges on having development time not taken up making the site better. The colour scheme here is a mix between the yellow/red/blue of the SC4 logo (and SC4D's logo), black, and the random blues/etc of the default skin which haven't been ironed out.

- Scalability
The current software isn't scalable, can possibly be made scalable, but the traffic probably doesn't justify it. It would make sense to add something like a cloudfare CDN, maybe. The bandwidth will cost you wherever you are, and would probably end up costing more if you just blindly said 'the cloud is better'.



Thanks for your suggestions, I hope my reply doesn't come across as rude or demeaning, and this is totally an unofficial answer from someone with a little technical experience, not at all the thoughts of the owners or staff.

[Vizoria]

I'm glad SC4D and the LEX have stayed as they are because it is top notch quality. The quality of Simtropolis has gone down a bit in my opinion since the upgrades of 2015, while SC4D is somewhat harder to use I do like that as there are far more options to post exactly what you want to. As for the LEX it should stay as it is, the style looks great and the search tools are incredible. In fact the STEX in Simtropolis has become almost inaccessible because there is no longer a proper search function for finding files.

[indovote]

This isn't me saying that you're a bad person for suggesting these things, just bringing up some counter points.

- Security
The forum software is a free thing from years ago, possibly no longer maintained. I totally agree that it would be better if it were updated to be secure, but the staff have limited time and moving forum software would a) break many links (including google searches) b) take a heck of a lot of time and effort and c) probably alienate most of the regulars who actually like how the site works right now.

Oh and magically changing to node.js wouldn't fix anything; I'd guess the development tools available make it potentially harder to break the code, but you're saying rewrite the whole site from scratch in a different language and runtime, and you'd have to move to a different host (or at least, be running on something you could run node.js on instead) and transfering the TB's of LEX data and forum posts would be a nightmare, for an already busy (with real life) staff. Even with tooling it'd probably bring about 10x as many bugs and security flaws.

- Responsive web design
I believe CasperVG has been updating the LEX at least to be somewhat responsive. It's probably possible to make a forum skin be just as responsive, but is it worth it? 

- Accessibility
This would be a laudable goal: accessibility, internationalisation and localisation are great to make sites more usable to everyone tbh. But this would require huge and deep changes to the forum software, which is still just an old and possibly outdated free software. It would be possible to add to the LEX which is custom code, but you'd have to convince CasperVG

- Unification 
this would be technically plausible, other than the fairly large effort into converting one site to use the other logins. it would also sacrifice the separation of code bases (which I can agree to being less optimal in terms of security, having two flawed security systems to look after is worse than one? but) having to integrate the LEX into forum software while possible (I've done it before, years ago) is small reward? having to log in to the forum using LEX accounts would be totally infeasible.

- Clean & tidy
A design change like this I would totally be down for, but it a) alienates users b) changes the brand and c) clean and tidy probably reduces ad revenue since ads totally destroy a clean look.

- Flat design with active color
- Seamless & no confusion
A very laudable goal indeed. Small tweaks to the skins and UX would be worth it, but this hinges on having development time not taken up making the site better. The colour scheme here is a mix between the yellow/red/blue of the SC4 logo (and SC4D's logo), black, and the random blues/etc of the default skin which haven't been ironed out.

- Scalability
The current software isn't scalable, can possibly be made scalable, but the traffic probably doesn't justify it. It would make sense to add something like a cloudfare CDN, maybe. The bandwidth will cost you wherever you are, and would probably end up costing more if you just blindly said 'the cloud is better'.



Thanks for your suggestions, I hope my reply doesn't come across as rude or demeaning, and this is totally an unofficial answer from someone with a little technical experience, not at all the thoughts of the owners or staff.

1. I know upgrading a site is long time action, but can be faster with help of other webmaster & may be member that know
web dev.
2. Yeah, LEX has followed responsive web design. However, it still have glitch (especially in mobile device) that maybe make
confusion, this is (maybe) break the point #7 of this consideration. Also it still have default Bootstrap look.
5. Clean & tidy mean here is not super clean & tidy. I know the site ad is destroying the site look, however if placed with care, it (maybe) clean. Also by adopting clean & tidy design, this site will be accessible easily on mobile device.
For example: imagine if this theme is responsive (that can accessed on many device without layout problem), you will
have long scroll to get post content because the left sidebar menu (in mobile device is in bottom of the top sidebar) is too long (in mobile device).
6. But the logo design & (maybe) the site theme is like 2003-2010 design when in skeumorphism (sorry if misspelling) design era.
Now is flat design era, so many sites & logos designed with flat design.
8. You will feel the effect when the SC4D site has very-high traffic (maybe 100M visits). So the site is (maybe) snappy
because the bandwidth is auto-scaling.

====

I' am agree that making change is not always good, it is
a chance that making it bad. But with intensive test by the webmaster & (maybe) member that know web dev, the bugs will be squash. Maybe the ST site has many bugs because they don't run intensive test when they adding features?

[APSMS]

1. I know upgrading a site is long time action, but can be faster with help of other webmaster & may be member that know
web dev.

Actually, most of the web development on this site is done by members who've been promoted. Jeronij isn't very active anymore, though I understand he drops in from time to time. He still owns the site, though.

2. Yeah, LEX has followed responsive web design. However, it still have glitch (especially in mobile device) that maybe make
confusion, this is (maybe) break the point #7 of this consideration. Also it still have default Bootstrap look.

The LEX change came with some useful features, although TBH I kinda liked the old look. The new revisions Casper has worked on definitely look cleaner, though. And the dependency tracker is invaluable, so in that respect I can sacrifice the old look. The new layout is close enough in design that it seems a sleek upgrade, rather than a completely new thing, which in my opinion is preferrable.

6. But the logo design & (maybe) the site theme is like 2003-2010 design when in skeumorphism (sorry if misspelling) design era.
Now is flat design era, so many sites & logos designed with flat design. I' am agree that making change is not always good, it is
a chance that making it bad. But with intensive test by the webmaster & (maybe) member that know web dev, the bugs will be
squash. Maybe the ST site has many bugs because they don't run intensive test when they adding features?

I actually like skeuomorphism. The new flat look is neat, sure, but I don't see any real reason to switch to it. The site as is works great, and for me, like Joe said, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. There would be a large time cost associated with any one upgrade, and for me, as long as the site stays compatible with my devices, that's great for me.

On a similar note, you mentioned responsive web design, and while the idea sounds nice, for me one of the most annoying things about browsing the web on my phone is coming across a website that auto-scales the content based on the width of the screen you're viewing it on. There is typically no way to turn this behavior off (unlike having a separate mobile version). Simtropolis in their last site upgrade switched to a Responsive Web Layout, and because of this I almost never visit their website on my phone anymore. Previously ST had an option for mobile or desktop version, but since I despise the way it looks on my phone, I don't use it anymore. SC4D appears the same on my laptop or on my phone, which I appreciate a lot.

[indovote]

I'm glad SC4D and the LEX have stayed as they are because it is top notch quality. The quality of Simtropolis has gone down a bit in my opinion since the upgrades of 2015, while SC4D is somewhat harder to use I do like that as there are far more options to post exactly what you want to. As for the LEX it should stay as it is, the style looks great and the search tools are incredible. In fact the STEX in Simtropolis has become almost inaccessible because there is no longer a proper search function for finding files.

I know ST has many bug (many of them are critical bugs), however with intensive test, the bugs will be detected & squashed.
The new SC4D site still have basics from this version of this site (e.g. dependencies tracker, power search) with many good improvement.

[compdude787]

I don't see a need to really have good mobile support for the LEX. You're not going to be browsing the LEX on your phone; you're more likely to be browsing it on your PC where you'll be downloading stuff for the game. So, adding mobile support on the LEX is a complete waste of time.

[indovote]

I don't see a need to really have good mobile support for the LEX. You're not going to be browsing the LEX on your phone; you're more likely to be browsing it on your PC where you'll be downloading stuff for the game. So, adding mobile support on the LEX is a complete waste of time.

I agree your reply, however sometime, some people download on their phone & copy it to their PC. 

[compdude787]

I don't see a need to really have good mobile support for the LEX. You're not going to be browsing the LEX on your phone; you're more likely to be browsing it on your PC where you'll be downloading stuff for the game. So, adding mobile support on the LEX is a complete waste of time.

I agree your reply, however sometime, some people download on their phone & copy it to their PC. 

Seems like more work to do that than to just download it from the computer, don't you think?

[APSMS]

In those rare moments of insanity that I have searched the LEX on my phone, it did work without any problems, though I was not crazy enough to actually download anything.

Usually I would think, if you're really pressed for internet, that you could just tether your phone to your pc and download it that way.

[CasperVg]

If you have an Android phone, you can also use the LEXer app: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=be.pielambr.lexer

[indovote]

What hosting that will be used for the new SC4D site? DigitalOcean (https://www.digitalocean.com/) or AWS (https://aws.amazon.com/)?

[Tarkus]

We have no plans at this time to change hosting, as there's not really much benefit for us to be on the cloud at this point.  The biggest drain on bandwidth is by far the LEX, and we have it under better control since the LEX upgrade, which added the ability to have a daily per-user bandwidth consumption limit.  Additionally, the largest and most popular file on the exchange, the NAM, is also mirrored at Simtropolis and ModDB, which also helps with the server load.

On the security front, the only thing that is up for further consideration is going to https.  That said, there is no sensitive information stored on the site, and all the financial matters pertaining to donations and the like are handled securely off-site through Paypal, and the only person with access to that side of things is the site's owner.  Our biggest problems historically have been dealing with spambots, and to a lesser extent, sock puppets of banned members, and we've dialed things in now with the registration procedure to find the balance between keeping the bots out, while letting the legitimate new members in, facilitated in large part by our recent addition of social network logins.  We've also become very vigilant about making sure our forum software is up-to-date.

As for responsive design and accessibility, the software we are using at present (custom LEX software + Simple Machines Forum (SMF) 2.0.11, released September 2015) is already fairly responsive, and I've not only browsed the forums, but posted using my iPod Touch, without issue, plus, as Casper mentioned, there's the LEXer app on Android.  Our high-contrast color scheme does help the visually-impaired navigate the site, and should any user with specific accessibility needs let us know that there's something we could do better to accommodate them, we would welcome that specific feedback.

We've made quite a few subtle UX tweaks over the past couple years, to make things a little bit easier to find and more stable (the sidebar, especially), and so far, they are working.

LEX/Forum account unification has been on the list for almost as long as the LEX has been around, and it's very high on our long-term priorities.  The original version of the LEX was a piece of code that was written under the auspices of a former Admin here, who was very selective about who he would let touch the software.  After he became inactive, it basically meant it didn't get touched at all, and had fallen into a state of disrepair before Casper took on the project of updating it.  It's not common knowledge, but the LEX was originally intended to be part of a network of unified network of LEXes, linking the files of multiple independent SC4 sites, which is part of the reason forum integration wasn't part of the original deal.  (Obscure fact: The LEX was originally pitched to SimPeg.) 

The main problem now is the matter of how to accomplish this feat.  The LEX has been effectively firewalled from the forums for 9 years, and they have different databases, where the account info doesn't exist in a neat one-to-one relationship (there's about 98,000 forum accounts, but 342,000 LEX accounts).  Until quite recently, it even had different staff. The most feasible way that has been discussed is using the forum account across both, and having an option to link a "legacy" LEX account to that forum account, to save the download history and the like.  However, as our forum software is something that is regularly updated, we do have to make sure that any modifications we would need to make to accomplish this integration wouldn't interfere.  SMF has also been working on a more substantial update, Version 2.1, which is presently in beta, and we're going to have to keep an eye on that as well.

On the design front, it is true there's been no substantial changes on the forum design since 2011.  But design is very much a matter of personal taste, and the whole philosophy behind SC4 Devotion is that form follows function.  There's really only one active staff member who does any substantial web development here (Casper)--there's no "web team", and as a small not-for-profit fansite for a 13-year-old computer game, one can argue that there's not really any need for one.  The rest of us work primarily in an operational capacity, as community managers--making sure that the site rules are observed, making sure the board categories are conducive to the community's needs, doing what we can on a personal level to ensure that the content creators have a good experience here, and trying to keep this place thriving.  It's also no accident that just about all of the site staff has some hand in custom content development.

No matter how updated or outdated our web design may be, SC4D is all about the people and the content, and we've had a surge of activity in recent months by sticking to that plan.  The site hit an all-time low in activity back in June 2015, and with the momentum from two NAM releases, and the LEX Advent Calendar releases, everything is coming back to life.  We've tripled the activity levels from that low month, and are on pace for our best month since December 2013.  New content projects and Mayor's Diaries are springing up, and even some long-dormant projects, like the CAM, have new life.  We've also seen new threads such as this appear and foster discussion, and we appreciate that people are actively thinking about what SC4D can and should be.  Thank you, Zaydan, for starting this conversation.

-Alex

[indovote]

We have no plans at this time to change hosting, as there's not really much benefit for us to be on the cloud at this point.  The biggest drain on bandwidth is by far the LEX, and we have it under better control since the LEX upgrade, which added the ability to have a daily per-user bandwidth consumption limit.  Additionally, the largest and most popular file on the exchange, the NAM, is also mirrored at Simtropolis and ModDB, which also helps with the server load.

On the security front, the only thing that is up for further consideration is going to https.  That said, there is no sensitive information stored on the site, and all the financial matters pertaining to donations and the like are handled securely off-site through Paypal, and the only person with access to that side of things is the site's owner.  Our biggest problems historically have been dealing with spambots, and to a lesser extent, sock puppets of banned members, and we've dialed things in now with the registration procedure to find the balance between keeping the bots out, while letting the legitimate new members in, facilitated in large part by our recent addition of social network logins.  We've also become very vigilant about making sure our forum software is up-to-date.

As for responsive design and accessibility, the software we are using at present (custom LEX software + Simple Machines Forum (SMF) 2.0.11, released September 2015) is already fairly responsive, and I've not only browsed the forums, but posted using my iPod Touch, without issue, plus, as Casper mentioned, there's the LEXer app on Android.  Our high-contrast color scheme does help the visually-impaired navigate the site, and should any user with specific accessibility needs let us know that there's something we could do better to accommodate them, we would welcome that specific feedback.

We've made quite a few subtle UX tweaks over the past couple years, to make things a little bit easier to find and more stable (the sidebar, especially), and so far, they are working.

LEX/Forum account unification has been on the list for almost as long as the LEX has been around, and it's very high on our long-term priorities.  The original version of the LEX was a piece of code that was written under the auspices of a former Admin here, who was very selective about who he would let touch the software.  After he became inactive, it basically meant it didn't get touched at all, and had fallen into a state of disrepair before Casper took on the project of updating it.  It's not common knowledge, but the LEX was originally intended to be part of a network of unified network of LEXes, linking the files of multiple independent SC4 sites, which is part of the reason forum integration wasn't part of the original deal.  (Obscure fact: The LEX was originally pitched to SimPeg.) 

The main problem now is the matter of how to accomplish this feat.  The LEX has been effectively firewalled from the forums for 9 years, and they have different databases, where the account info doesn't exist in a neat one-to-one relationship (there's about 98,000 forum accounts, but 342,000 LEX accounts).  Until quite recently, it even had different staff. The most feasible way that has been discussed is using the forum account across both, and having an option to link a "legacy" LEX account to that forum account, to save the download history and the like.  However, as our forum software is something that is regularly updated, we do have to make sure that any modifications we would need to make to accomplish this integration wouldn't interfere.  SMF has also been working on a more substantial update, Version 2.1, which is presently in beta, and we're going to have to keep an eye on that as well.

On the design front, it is true there's been no substantial changes on the forum design since 2011.  But design is very much a matter of personal taste, and the whole philosophy behind SC4 Devotion is that form follows function.  There's really only one active staff member who does any substantial web development here (Casper)--there's no "web team", and as a small not-for-profit fansite for a 13-year-old computer game, one can argue that there's not really any need for one.  The rest of us work primarily in an operational capacity, as community managers--making sure that the site rules are observed, making sure the board categories are conducive to the community's needs, doing what we can on a personal level to ensure that the content creators have a good experience here, and trying to keep this place thriving.  It's also no accident that just about all of the site staff has some hand in custom content development.

No matter how updated or outdated our web design may be, SC4D is all about the people and the content, and we've had a surge of activity in recent months by sticking to that plan.  The site hit an all-time low in activity back in June 2015, and with the momentum from two NAM releases, and the LEX Advent Calendar releases, everything is coming back to life.  We've tripled the activity levels from that low month, and are on pace for our best month since December 2013.  New content projects and Mayor's Diaries are springing up, and even some long-dormant projects, like the CAM, have new life.  We've also seen new threads such as this appear and foster discussion, and we appreciate that people are actively thinking about what SC4D can and should be.  Thank you, Zaydan, for starting this conversation.

-Alex

It's true that content is more important than appearance, however appearance still must considerated in this era, but no more than content.
In short word: The content & appearance is in 3:2 ratio.

[APSMS]

It should be noted that SC4D was designed specifically with mind to content creators, which is why form follows function, and why appearances have always been secondary.

Not to bash on Simtropolis, as it's a great site (and the Dirktator is always thinking of the community), but the way upgrades break things there would seriously hamper SC4D, esp. since absolutely no one is paid in any fashion to maintain the site. Cosmetic upgrades nowadays also involve backend changes to accommodate the design, and we currently lack a test server for the main forums.

To me, there is inherent beauty in a website that does exactly what you want it to, even if it appears bare bones at first glance. There are far too many website "upgrades" that break functionality or fundamentally alter the way content is consumed on the site (www.engadget.com springs to mind) and as a result change the way the site is used or operates despite not having any change in focus or purpose (as far as staff and management goes).

[indovote]

It should be noted that SC4D was designed specifically with mind to content creators, which is why form follows function, and why appearances have always been secondary.

Not to bash on Simtropolis, as it's a great site (and the Dirktator is always thinking of the community), but the way upgrades break things there would seriously hamper SC4D, esp. since absolutely no one is paid in any fashion to maintain the site. Cosmetic upgrades nowadays also involve backend changes to accommodate the design, and we currently lack a test server for the main forums.

To me, there is inherent beauty in a website that does exactly what you want it to, even if it appears bare bones at first glance. There are far too many website "upgrades" that break functionality or fundamentally alter the way content is consumed on the site (www.engadget.com springs to mind) and as a result change the way the site is used or operates despite not having any change in focus or purpose (as far as staff and management goes).

I said appearance is in secondary, see my above post. In that post, I said that the content and appearance is in 3:2 ratio.

Regarding the upgrade system, please read my update disclaimer on the post #1.