NWM (Network Widening Mod) - Development and Support

[ivo_su]

What we observe from you Alex is wonderful. It is nice occasionally  to show us how far you've come  to work. I am extremely pleased  by the  diagonal  OWR-4 and OWR-5. I think I have received quite well - they are often used by my network for the central  part of  my cities. As far as I understand  the delay  in NWM 2.0 is mainly due  to the development  of Paths.
Can you tell us whether you plan issued to elevated networks of NWM. Maybe OWR-3 or another.

- Ivaylo (Ivo)

[Jack_wilds]

...well, its something to look forward to   

thanks for the update...

[jdenm8]

I don't think elevated networks are planned for this release, and it's not NWM paths slowing most of this release (traffic weaves all over the damn place on RHW )

Also, we're trying to implement a bunch of brand-new networks in the RHW (ERHW-6S, ERHW-6C among others) as well as RHW-3 and the NWM networks.

As well as that, the NWM is largely Tarkus' project, he mostly develops it on his own.

[ivo_su]

Without wanting to touch or offend some of you guys from the NAM team I want to say that the whole project NWM n so far is truly amazing and revolutionary for Sim City 4. The emergence of 3 tiles networks in the near future will propel the game in a whole new orbit. I say that I have nothing against RHW but I think there is undue put too much effort since the networks are RHW developed a pretty good level.My personal opinion is that we should focus on development and design of NWM because this project  has a lot to catch up to the RHW. I do not know  how things are with you in the kitchen of the team but one person to deal with all this work is impossible to put it mildly.

- Ivo

[Lowkee33]

You're going to have to forgive me.  I dragged the NWM piece that is first in the tab ring over the Maxis avenue, and then plopped the only Tulep in the tab ring that was 1x2 over the intersection.  This looks fine great for me, and I am sure there are other things I could play with on the intersection.  Are the streets clear now? Yes.   Thank you very much for the NAMing.

Had been hesitant to show them to prevent myself from getting mobbed.

Too late now, already during this post... .

My foray into a SAM mod really showed me just how many intersections are possible.  3 tile wide networks probably shouldn't have intersections anyway, but I really don't know much about RL networks.  I can only think that I would be driving pretty fast on a road like that.

Another post  .  My only issue with RHW is that it costs nothing to maintain, but please sit back and have some soda with my opinion

[Ramona Brie]

You're going to have to forgive me.  I dragged the NWM piece that is first in the tab ring over the Maxis avenue, and then plopped the only Tulep in the tab ring that was 1x2 over the intersection.  This looks fine great for me, and I am sure there are other things I could play with on the intersection.  Are the streets clear now? Yes.   Thank you very much for the NAMing.

Too late now, already during this post... .

My foray into a SAM mod really showed me just how many intersections are possible.  3 tile wide networks probably shouldn't have intersections anyway, but I really don't know much about RL networks.  I can only think that I would be driving pretty fast on a road like that.

Another post  .  My only issue with RHW is that it costs nothing to maintain, but please sit back and have some soda with my opinion

Come to Phoenix's East Valley! Two-lane streets intersecting with six-lane roads that have 45mph speed limits; TLA-7s; AVE-6s with turning lanes pretty much at every street; intersections between TLA-5s and AVE-6s; and AVE-6s crossing the equivalent of FAR railroad. Yeah, thought you'd like it.

[jdenm8]

AVE-6 and TLA-7 are essentially low-speed versions of RHW-6C.
I haven't seen many in RL, but the ones I have seen (in the US) frequently have intersecting roads, but traffic is not allowed to cross the whole way, forcing them to go to the nearest large intersection and do a U-Turn.

[Tarkus]

My only issue with RHW is that it costs nothing to maintain

Actually, someone just never got around to changing the LTEXT.   According to the NAM Unified Traffic Simulator, the 12th value (which covers RHWs) is set to §0.35 per month.  I'll correct that for Version 4.2.

-Alex

[Lowkee33]

Hmm, I covered a tile with RHW yesterday and it had no cost.  Worth me giving it a second look.

[ScottFTL]

The maintenance cost is in the NAM Traffic Simulator, but I'm pretty sure the game doesn't apply it to RHW.  I don't think it was coded into the budget function by Maxis, and it seems to be controlled by the EXE.

But unlike Lowkee33, I love to use the RHW in my rural areas where a highway would be too expensive.  It's probably a bit of a cheat, but I just pretend the maintenance funds come from the federal government. 

[GDO29Anagram]

OR you can just place a bunch of expensive eyecandy to mimic actual highway maintenance costs.

This is getting offtopic now...

[Tarkus]

Hmm, I covered a tile with RHW yesterday and it had no cost.  Worth me giving it a second look.

You're correct there.  Just tried it myself as well.  I also discovered that the cost values displayed on the LTEXTs are actually pulled from the network's Type28 exemplar, rather than the Traffic Simulator (for the maintenance cost) or the Network Tuning Parameters exemplar (for the base construction cost).  The actual construction cost upon building does appear to emanate from the Network Tuning Parameters exemplar, however.  The link-in on the maintenance isn't working at all, though. 

I'll have to do some investigation into it.  If we can't get it the way it's supposed to work by default, I wonder if it might be possible to rig some workaround with a LUA, reading the number of network tiles and then modifying the budget that way.

Edit: Going at least sort of back on topic:

Without wanting to touch or offend some of you guys from the NAM team I want to say that the whole project NWM n so far is truly amazing and revolutionary for Sim City 4. The emergence of 3 tiles networks in the near future will propel the game in a whole new orbit. I say that I have nothing against RHW but I think there is undue put too much effort since the networks are RHW developed a pretty good level.My personal opinion is that we should focus on development and design of NWM because this project  has a lot to catch up to the RHW. I do not know how things are with you in the kitchen of the team but one person to deal with all this work is impossible to put it mildly.

No offense taken here, and thanks for the kind words regarding the NWM and the triple-tile networks.  I've kind of adapted to the whole understaffing thing (at one point, the RHW and NWM both were actually just me), but it can get overwhelming at times.  The thing with the RHW is that it has had a bit of a chip on its shoulder for awhile, so to speak.  By its very nature, it gets constantly compared to Maxis and RL highways, there's the quirks of using a "hidden" network, and folks have very different ideas as to what it should be.  Trying to find that right balance with that project is really tricky and it requires a lot of very careful thought, and near-constant development and evolution in order for it to really work.   And there's really a lot further we can go with it still.

While the NWM had its technical quirks initially, it has a more easily graspable role to fill--wide roads for use in CBDs and suburbs.  And after its first release, I think the more contentious aspects of the project have largely subsided, and by Version 3.0, I think it'll have most of what NWM users want out of the mod.  But even after we get the multi-height system and the Wider ERHWs in place around the time of RHW Version 5.0, I'd expect we're still going to be fielding a lot of requests for new ramp interfaces and splitters and whatnot.

That all being said, after my current RL stuff subsides and this next NAM/RHW/NWM release cycle is finished, I'm likely going to be taking a look at where I should focus my energies next. 

-Alex

[metarvo]

I guess the only way to keep from getting mobbed even more will be to erase everyone's memory who saw the pictures.  Oh, those delicious pictures...    Considering the fact that I had seen little of the triple-tile networks at all, the sight of a diagonal TLA-7 was a pure shock.    The diagonals seem to have an RHW flavor to them, but I guess that's the good thing about having the RHW as a predecessor to the NWM.  What works for the RHW in current releases can be ported over to the NWM in future releases.

As a RL connection between the NWM and RHW, I have actually seen what could be described as a TLRHW-5.  That's right, 70 mph with a center turning lane!  It sounds oh so dangerous, but my state's good DOT actually built it that way.

[jondor]

I guess the only way to keep from getting mobbed even more will be to erase everyone's memory who saw the pictures.  Oh, those delicious pictures...    Considering the fact that I had seen little of the triple-tile networks at all, the sight of a diagonal TLA-7 was a pure shock.    The diagonals seem to have an RHW flavor to them, but I guess that's the good thing about having the RHW as a predecessor to the NWM.  What works for the RHW in current releases can be ported over to the NWM in future releases.

As a RL connection between the NWM and RHW, I have actually seen what could be described as a TLRHW-5.  That's right, 70 mph with a center turning lane!  It sounds oh so dangerous, but my state's good DOT actually built it that way.

Ours isn't quite that bad, only 55MPH, but US 30 from just past Portland to a little past St. Helens is built that exact same way.

[Ryan B.]

I guess the only way to keep from getting mobbed even more will be to erase everyone's memory who saw the pictures.  Oh, those delicious pictures...    Considering the fact that I had seen little of the triple-tile networks at all, the sight of a diagonal TLA-7 was a pure shock.    The diagonals seem to have an RHW flavor to them, but I guess that's the good thing about having the RHW as a predecessor to the NWM.  What works for the RHW in current releases can be ported over to the NWM in future releases.

As a RL connection between the NWM and RHW, I have actually seen what could be described as a TLRHW-5.  That's right, 70 mph with a center turning lane!  It sounds oh so dangerous, but my state's good DOT actually built it that way.

Sounds like something Texas would do. 

[Tarkus]

Ours isn't quite that bad, only 55MPH, but US 30 from just past Portland to a little past St. Helens is built that exact same way.

OR-99 from Eugene to Junction City, and US-20 from Lebanon to Sweet Home (of all places) are the same way, too.  There's really not much to turn left into along those roads, but they're striped that way.

Of course, you ain't see nothin' yet until you've seen Bake Parkway in Irvine, CA.  The speed limit on it alternates between 50mph and 55mph, and this part is a TLA-9 with a 55 zone (albeit the driveways are quite scattered).  Most of the major arterials around there are like that, actually.

-Alex

[ivo_su]

Guys do not know how things are with you in the U.S. but here in Sofia would TLA but rather something like 6 or AVE-8. If we do not call them Avenues rather boulevards but it is not important. My thought is that while the limit in populated areas is 50 km / h it on these boulevards speed limit  is 80  km / h. They for the most  part,  there are used as an inter-city highways.

- Ivo

[io_bg]

These diagonal MAVEs look cool! And I agree crossings between larger AVEs/MAVEs would be needed.

[jibjohn]

As a RL connection between the NWM and RHW, I have actually seen what could be described as a TLRHW-5.  That's right, 70 mph with a center turning lane!  It sounds oh so dangerous, but my state's good DOT actually built it that way.

ooh arr, takes me back a coupe of months to when i was leaning to drive, and the dreaded right turn onto the 70mph duel carrageway, my instructor took me back to this sooo many times: http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8&ll=52.523236,1.725594&spn=0,0.006845&z=18&layer=c&cbll=52.523244,1.725418&panoid=NdvakUuOjnUJu3PbQTS09A&cbp=12,97.49,,0,11.21
fortunately it didn't come up in my test or i would have definitely lost makes for hesitation!
this section was built in the 1960s (when there was no speed limit!) thankfully quick fixes like this have been illegal for a very long time (and only a few drivers go right here (almost exclusively learners)),
John

[Lowkee33]

I was only picturing a 3-tile wide intersection both ways, diagonal makes intersections of various road types very complicated indeed.  My context is also Boston, where we just don't have room for wide roads.  The big dig is basically a place where no-rules-apply.  Maybe it's the color of the lights, but traffic speed and lane changes increase dramatically when you are down there.  Pheonix I have been to, and a 6 lane with turning lanes does fit in well there.

Got to test drive NWM today.  I was having pretty good results tricking one way roads to come out of the intersections, but clearly this is not the point of the mod, and went for what looked best from a DrawPaths perspective.  Show us your intersections

Thanks again for the help, I am even beginning to understand what the names of the pieces mean.

Edit: And an actual support question.  After doing some NWM work and using the route query, I see many routes that have people driving into the ocean, could probably be explained as a graphical error.  Does the game actually think that people are driving like this, and are they having a hard time getting to work?