CAM - General Discussions

[z]

You might want to take a look at Dataviews: Increased Detail Mod v1.0.

[allan_kuan1992]

Should I wake up this thread?

Okay... there are various industrial buildings made by SimGoober on my computer. One of them is Hanson Hosiery Mills. However, there isn't just one version of it... in fact there are two, both released by the BSC in separate packs (one with the Simgoober Industrial Packs, the other in the CAM packs).

The separate files contain a significant difference in jobs despite the fact that both are CAM:
2601 IM (Mega Pack)
3576 IM (CAM File)

This makes me think that other buildings in the Simgoober packs may have issues as well. One particular example is SG Fabrications, which appears to be larger than Hanson Hosiery Mills in building volume but contains around 1500 less jobs. A solution in the form of updated lots is highly recommended as my region has skyrocketing demand and it's hard to satisfy it in the limited space available even with the use of skyscrapers and high-density industry.

[nothelle]

My city CO$$$ development is stuck @ stage 13, I could not get stage 14 building growing.  My current pop is 2.5 mio, with Commercial and residential zoning only.  I used radical ordinance because somehow my health & education buildings capacity messed when the population entered 2 million, always overcrowded no matter how many hospitals and education buildings I put into the city, (even the modified one with far larger capacity).  Anyway previously I tried to develop it into 3 million population without radical ordinance but the result was the same, no stage 14 CO$$$ buildings.  CO$$ and CS$$$ seems to be working fine, you can see stage 14 & 15 growing.

I already checked all the lot & model file, they are all there.  At first I thought it was plugin problem so I redownloaded all the buildings according to the list here and its dependencies, restarted the city from zero, but as you can see they are all stuck @ stage 13 (250+ buildings).  Demand, desirability are still positive.  Any idea how to solve this problem?

[RippleJet]

Should I wake up this thread?

Certainly.
It just took a while for me to wake up as well...

This makes me think that other buildings in the Simgoober packs may have issues as well. One particular example is SG Fabrications, which appears to be larger than Hanson Hosiery Mills in building volume but contains around 1500 less jobs. A solution in the form of updated lots is highly recommended as my region has skyrocketing demand and it's hard to satisfy it in the limited space available even with the use of skyscrapers and high-density industry.

Without looking into these specific buildings, I can probably say that the differences are due to the earlier CAMeLot packs being made when the concept with Filling Degree was rather new. Also, large industral lots need a higher Filling Degree to include sheds and other smaller buildings as props around the main building. This was often not considered when the first CAMeLots were made (the X Tool was in its early development back then).

Demand, desirability are still positive.  Any idea how to solve this problem?

Nothelle, are you still using Simulator Z Ultra?

[nothelle]

Ripple: Yes, but this is a new city with different layout.  I had no problem with sim Z Ultra with this one, but had to work gradually from standard, Z low up until Z ultra to create enough traffic in the co area.  I couldn't get high enough traffic on the previous city because zoning were too dispersed across city, same technique, I used standard, z low up until z medium to get enough desirability in the co area, but as soon as i used z ultra (standard and modified by z), CO$$$ plunged and I couldn't find a way to get them high enough until I finally gave up on that city.  On these one, only 25% of the co desirability are below 100, but mostly i could get them in the 120's and 130's.

[z]

I should mention that in the latest beta of Simulator Z, the Ultra version has had its Customers/Traffic Noise Coefficient raised from .04 to .07, which is the value in the modified version that I gave to nothelle.  Even before this change, I checked my cities, which were all using Z Ultra, and CO$$$ desirability was always at least 130 on the buildings that I looked at.  I also haven't heard of this problem from anyone else, so I think that there's something else at work for nothelle, although I have no idea what it is.

[RippleJet]

There are still rather few stage 14 and 15 CO§§§ towers available.
Especially for lot sizes 3×3 and 4×3, stage 13 is the highest available.

Have you downloaded all available stage 14/15 CAMeLots (listed below)?
And do you have zones matching these lot sizes?

5. Commercial Office §§§ CAMeLots

Lot Size	Lot Name	Growth Stage	Download CAMeLot here	Download BAT Model here
3x4	IJL Export EB	14	CAM Commercial Offices BSC	IJL Financial Center
4x4	Personify Plaza	14	CAM Commercial Offices BSC	Personify Plaza
4x4	Tragicomicus Bank One	14	CAM Commercial Offices BSC	Bank One Tower Indianapolis
4x4	PVM2	15	CAM Commercial Offices BSC	HKABT Paulvmontfort MEGA Prop Pack Vol06
5x5	One World Trade Center	15	CAM Commercial Offices BSC	WTC Prop Pack 2 The Twin Towers
5x5	Two World Trade Center	15	CAM Commercial Offices BSC	WTC Prop Pack 2 The Twin Towers
6x5	Velacosma	15	CAM Commercial Offices BSC	Velacosma Associates
6x6	Pan Pacific Building	15	CAM Commercial Offices BSC	NDEX PanPacific Building By DuskTrooper
7x5	Freedom Tower	15	Freedom Tower

[nothelle]

Yep, all the lot files n their dependencies are there... i created 6x12 block, but did not specifically create a lot specific to any of the stage 14 & 15 (i.e. 4x4 or 5x5), however if you see other categories (residential, CO$$ and CS$$$), they have no problem going through all the way to stage 15.  However, if my problem is missing dependencies, shouldn't the lot grow with brown box anyway? I Tried to create specific lot to fit any of the stage 14 & 15 buildings,  but eventually another building occupied it.  I seemed to lead myself to very unusual problem with this game?     Final update: I tried to run it for another 70 years until population reached 3.2 mil, same situation CO$$$ increased to 333 in stage 13, but no stage 14 & 15. 

[Korot]

Have you remove the old lot files? Since you do have stage 13's, it isn't a cap bug. Perhaps the area isn't desirable enough to grow stage 14's and 15's. That, or RippleJet has done something wrong with the OG's.

Regards,
Korot

[nothelle]

Yep.. also tried to remove desc file, as I read it somewhere that it might cause the problem, but no result.  I might have to start again since on my previous city it can result in different buildings being build.  I'm anxious to see stage CO$$$ 14 & 15 buildings and R$$$ stage 15 as well, I'm getting tired of having yelluza & cobb galeria all over.  Another solution is not to use radical ordinance, but as soon as my population reached 2 mil, schools  hospitals are always overcrowded no matter how many buildings I build, another bug as well?

[Korot]

The desc files are included in the lot files, which are included in the CAM lot files, but since the lot file they refer to is removed, it shouldn't be the problem. I suggest you check all your skyscrapers to see their names, if anyone of those is a stage 14 or 15, it is Tage's fault and he messed up the OG's, if you don't have those, I've got no clue where the problem may lie.

Regards,
Korot

[RippleJet]

I suggest you check all your skyscrapers to see their names, if anyone of those is a stage 14 or 15, it is Tage's fault and he messed up the OG's

You're not that far off the truth, Korot...

First of all, below are the "CAMeLot Growth Stage Occupant Groups" that these stage 14 and 15 towers have:

Lot   Size	Lot Name	Growth Stage	Occupant    Group
3x4	IJL Export EB	14	13
4x4	Personify Plaza	14	14
4x4	Tragicomicus Bank One	14	13
4x4	PVM2	15	15
5x5	One World Trade Center	15	15
5x5	Two World Trade Center	15	15
6x5	Velacosma	15	15
6x6	Pan Pacific Building	15	15
7x5	Freedom Tower	15	15

If you've got the IJL Export EB or the Tragicomicus Bank One in your city,
then those would be listed as Stage 13 by the CAMeLot Counter, even if they are in fact stage 14.

Now, I do make lots of mistakes myself, but only three of those buildings have been modded by me...
One World Trade Center, Two World Trade Center and the Freedom Tower.

I think I'll point another person over to this thread now...

[BarbyW]

  Gee, thanks, Tage. I have to admit to making a mistake AGAIN. I can't do with this.

[nothelle]

  Hehe.. no need for blame game. I've read people have no problem with the growth stage, just couldn't figure out why mine didn't work out.  Let me restart the city again and see whether it can have different result, but to my defense all the files were installed accordingly and I've only included buildings in the cam list on this forum.  I've limit all other mod installation to a minimum to prevent more inCAMpatible plugins.  If all else fail then just have to start from scratch again 

One note though... since I only build one city in the entire region, could this be the problem?  But looking at the census, I already have 1.8 mil people working in CO$$$, it should be able to get me at least 1 stage 14 building.

[RippleJet]

One note though... since I only build one city in the entire region, could this be the problem?  But looking at the census, I already have 1.8 mil people working in CO$$$, it should be able to get me at least 1 stage 14 building.

It's the total commercial capacity that sets the limits.
With 2,673,890 you have already surpassed the last threshold of 1,925,586.
Thus, you should have a 9% chance of growing both stage 14 and 15...

[nothelle]

I finally find the answer to my own question here... I purposedly create a 6x12 block zones (r,co) and surround them by streets, then divide the block into 2 of 3x12, so all the buildings that appear in the city are mostly 3x4, 3x3, etc.  I changed some the zoning into 4x12 and 5x12 blocks and voila...stage 14, 15 and all new buildings that i've never seen before plopped out   Ripple already mentioned about lot size, but never realized that I have to force it to wake those buildings up...  Thx guys

[GlobalHaze]

Don't mean to be a bother, but I've done a little reading and I understand that the problem I am experiencing has already been adressed. However, was the Industrial stage limit on Somy's HT - Industrial Buildings 1 and 2(the high capacity ones), fixed in some future installment of the CAM that I don't know about?  I ask because I've seen Somy's CAMmed buildings in the cities of others, and I'm wondering why I can't get them to show up in my cities.  I have the mod that gives details of actual demand in the query of buildings and see that my HT - Industrial demand does not exceed 12,000.  What I'm wondering(sry for repeating myself), is whether this problem was fixed, and the demand cap...(correct me if I'm wrong, really tired right now)...was raised to 24,000 to allow the growth of Somy's large 6x6 HT - Industrial buildings.  Been trying to figure out what I was doing wrong for about two weeks and why the game wasn't allowing the growth of the buildings, even though I have all necessary requirements, but the problem was lying right under my nose. Any help and or corrections are greatly appreciated.  Also wasn't sure where to adress this to.  I was going to start a new topic, but that's completely unnecessary since there's already been a topic basically asking the same question somewhere on the CAM board.  BTW I am also aware that certain fire, park, etc. caps exist, and that I've successfully grown dozens of Integricultures throughout a region of over 5,000,000 residents, and probably 1.5mil IND. jobs, 90% IHT.

[Korot]

That fix will be included in CAM 2.0, which will be released eventually, but isn't fixed in CAM 1.0 (the one currently available for Download), though you can fix it yourself in the reader.
To do so, open the CAM file in the reader and select the Exemplar file with IID 0x4400 and ... Which property is the demand property? I can't find it. Hmm... Will do some more searching to find it. I know I saw a post where it was described how to do this. Will be back.

Edit: Found it! Looked in wrong exemplar. To alter the max I-HT demand, open up the main CAM file (in the a_CAM folder) and go down to the bottom of the list, there should be an exemplar with IID 0x4400 and GID 0xc7bb4816, with Exemplar name property Industrial High Tech. There are two property's here which alter demand: Minimum Value and Maximum Value. The last one is by default 12.000 or 0x2ee0. To make it 24.000, alter the property to 0x5DC0, and save the file before exiting the reader.
Edit2: Apparently, some more values need to be altered, see post below.

Regards,
Korot

[ponnie]

I know I saw a post where it was described how to do this. Will be back.

If I'm not mistaking you're referring to this post:

http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=7722.0

[GlobalHaze]

Very much appreciated, thanks!

I edited the necessary properties in the maximum values for the demand cap to be raised.  I noticed that the demand bar now rises above 18,000 instead of capping below it, and my industrial demand has gone as high as 18,000 in the detailed demand query, so I know it's working.  So far though, no Somy's, wondering if there's something else I'm missing... 

Just saw my first Somy about 10 mins. after posting.  Hoorah!!

As long as I'm here I might as well ask this, will having "non-CAMmed" buildings in my cities conflict with the mod? For instance Kinzie Tower: a stage 8 4x3 R$$ tower, or Pacwest: a stage 8 4x4 CO$$ tower.