RHW (RealHighway) - Development and Support

[jdenm8]

That puzzle piece is actually many puzzle pieces. The Type-A TuLEPs are standard TuLEPs and the FARHW-4 is standard FARHW-4.
The only unreleased content there is the 6x2 FARHW-4 Diamond Interchange Intersection puzzle piece which the FARHW TuLEPs are embedded in.

[samerton]

Amazing, SA! That looks incredibly realistic 

[Twyla]

@ Twyla - Your best bet for "turning lanes" under RHW would probably be to use MAVE-6 under RHW. Of course it's missing turning arrows and different lane markings but overall it looks pretty good.

I've tried that with TLA-5 under the RHW but - more often than not - the adjoining intersections kills the override(s) and it reverts to roads.

[jgehrts]

TuLEPs, meet FARHW. FARHW, meet TuLEPs.

Holy crap. That... looks pretty spiffy.

[metarvo]

This marks the first interaction between FA networks of any kind and Avenues.  Not only that, but it looks like I see L1ERHW-4 in there, too.  Good work, SA! 

[Exla357]

Ok, I can do pathing. Some NAM person PM me if they need anything. I'll be free the 26th through June 28th.
Today is a proud day for TuLEPs indeed. 

-Alex

[Architect_1077]

What does it take to make bridges for the RHW? I'm talking about 6s, 6c 8s, etc...? From what I gather they aren't easy. What exactly makes it hard (or not possible at all??) I'd like to help get some bridges made if possible. As I work with 3ds Max I could at least make a couple of models...

[jdenm8]

6S, 8S and 10S are easy, we can use the Ground Highway network for them as they're two tiles wide, but the C networks are a problem because they're 3 tiles wide.

There are no proper three-tile-wide networks in SimCity 4.
We can't use three RHW bridges next to one another because a game limitation stops us putting two bridges right next to one another, so there has to be a workaround.
I believe one has been found, but I don't know if it's properly draggable.

[GDO29Anagram]

Brainwave time.

A 6C bridge CAN (technically) be possible. The secret? It has to be a double-6S bridge made from Ground Highway. Hey, if three RHW paths can fit in one tile, why not apply that to an MHW-based bridge? It just needs some overhangs... And a bit of simplicity...

Turn off the grid lines and it would REALLY look like a 6C bridge.

[Tarkus]

I know Vince and Daniel had figured out something on the 6C end . . . I believe they did two single-tile bridges with a center overhang, but having not seen the files, I can't be 100% sure.  We have bridges already for quite a few other networks from choco (including most wider RHWs) that are in a largely-but-not-entirely complete state . . . there hasn't been much in the way of finishing those up as of late, however.  Perhaps when I have a bit more time, I'll take a look over them again.

-Alex

[jondor]

I know Vince and Daniel had figured out something on the 6C end . . . I believe they did two single-tile bridges with a center overhang, but having not seen the files, I can't be 100% sure.  We have bridges already for quite a few other networks from choco (including most wider RHWs) that are in a largely-but-not-entirely complete state . . . there hasn't been much in the way of finishing those up as of late, however.  Perhaps when I have a bit more time, I'll take a look over them again.

-Alex

Interestingly enough, depending on the slope mod and just how flat the terrain is, I'm pretty sure it's possible to drag a third bridge between two other bridges spaced one tile apart, as long as the ground is perfectly even.  I remember one of my very early cities once had two OWR bridges with a rail bridge between them.  I'll see if I can duplicate that and post a picture.

Edit: Looks like I can't, at least not with the plethora of mods I have installed.  This may have been way, way back in the Vanilla days too, but I definitely remember doing it once.

[j-dub]

Considering how strict Maxis is with the being able to cross a network over the first tile up top on their draggable tunnels, I would say that may be too hard to handle. I can barley build a Maxis bridge over a road crossing underneath, because its difficult keeping the long, wide distance of land perfectly level so the road models on each side of the bridge are right. That gets frustrating having to do over so many times.

Even with the first RHW-4 bridges, its almost like the same concept of the center overhang method, unless you no longer have to keep the top ground on each side of the water perfectly flat and distanced evenly if you want the bridges to be even. This always takes some careful landscaping for me.

[Tarkus]

I just tried with no plugins and a very smooth grade . . . no success.  The only thing I can think of that might explain it is a pre-patch Rush Hour.

-Alex

[jondor]

I just tried with no plugins and a very smooth grade . . . no success.  The only thing I can think of that might explain it is a pre-patch Rush Hour.

-Alex

That's possible.  I remember this was right around the time Rush Hour came out, so it may have been Vanilla or pre-patch.  Oh well.  Relegating this idea to "things to poke around with later".

[Twyla]

GDO29 made an interesting post over in the NAM Menu thread - though I'm responding here due to it being RHW-specific...

The A3-F3 Ramps are intriguing, to say the least, though I'm given to wonder if they really have a place in SC4.  Believe me - I'm all for expanding RHW, but the 6S exits give even me pause.

Part of it has to do with mechanics:  As I understand it, there's very little 'elbow room' when it comes to the capacities of the RHW variants - and the capacity of 6S over 4S is only 25%, whereas the 4S has double the capacity of MIS.

Part of it has to do with usability:  Just about the only places I've seen the RL-counterpart to a 6S exit is in conjunction with splitting to/merging with a pair of 4S flyovers.  Given the rambling nature of RHW's 'modularity', I see such an interchange taking up the lion's share of a Medium City Tile - and too large to contain within a Small one.

Part of it has to do with 'realism':  As a rule, a highway never has more exit lanes than through lanes - though exceptions to this rule probably do exist - so meaning that the 'source highway' would need to be at least a 12C/S.  To properly align with the continuing 6C, a 12C would need to be five tiles wide - while one side of a 12S would be two full tiles plus an overhang.  Somewhat recently, Alex (Tarkus) expressed concerns over these widths - I disagreed with him at the time but, as I'm coming to understand more about the workings, I'm more inclined to agree with him.

Part of it has to do with applicability:  With 6S Ramps being limited to RHWs of 12 lanes or more (none of which currently exist, and very few are likely to exist), it'd be a pretty rare occasion for them to ever see use.  By contrast, the 4S Ramps see common use on pretty much anything with 6 or more lanes (potentially justifying an RHW-4C).

EDIT:  I'd overlooked the 6S coming off an RHW-10C/S - so meaning that they wouldn't be quite so limited as I'd thought.  You'd think I'd know by now not to post when I'm tired. :p
Though their application does still remain fairly limited - particularly in comparison to the 4S and MIS.



On a separate note...

5x5 (not counting starters) 8C to 6C + Dual 4Ss, anyone? 

Mainly an experiment in trying to duplicate the RHW textures, but still...

[Shadow Assassin]

I know Vince and Daniel had figured out something on the 6C end . . . I believe they did two single-tile bridges with a center overhang, but having not seen the files, I can't be 100% sure.

They are 2 single-tile bridges with overhanging paths. I took Vince's model and made some modifications to the bridge so that it was converted into essentially MHW with a shoulder.

Twyla, that looks very nice! We do need a piece like that, though the textures of course will need to be edited further so they look exactly like the v5 textures.

[jondor]

GDO29 made an interesting post over in the NAM Menu thread - though I'm responding here due to it being RHW-specific...

The A3-F3 Ramps are intriguing, to say the least, though I'm given to wonder if they really have a place in SC4.  Believe me - I'm all for expanding RHW, but the 6S exits give even me pause.

Part of it has to do with mechanics:  As I understand it, there's very little 'elbow room' when it comes to the capacities of the RHW variants - and the capacity of 6S over 4S is only 25%, whereas the 4S has double the capacity of MIS.

Part of it has to do with usability:  Just about the only places I've seen the RL-counterpart to a 6S exit is in conjunction with splitting to/merging with a pair of 4S flyovers.  Given the rambling nature of RHW's 'modularity', I see such an interchange taking up the lion's share of a Medium City Tile - and too large to contain within a Small one.

Part of it has to do with 'realism':  As a rule, a highway never has more exit lanes than through lanes - though exceptions to this rule probably do exist - so meaning that the 'source highway' would need to be at least a 12C/S.  To properly align with the continuing 6C, a 12C would need to be five tiles wide - while one side of a 12S would be two full tiles plus an overhang.  Somewhat recently, Alex (Tarkus) expressed concerns over these widths - I disagreed with him at the time but, as I'm coming to understand more about the workings, I'm more inclined to agree with him.

Part of it has to do with applicability:  With 6S Ramps being limited to RHWs of 12 lanes or more (none of which currently exist, and very few are likely to exist), it'd be a pretty rare occasion for them to ever see use.  By contrast, the 4S Ramps see common use on pretty much anything with 6 or more lanes (potentially justifying an RHW-4C).

My take on it is that those ramps are partly wishful thinking, and partly a demonstration of how the pattern continues very clearly and concisely even into those gargantuan networks.

As for the A3-C3 ramps (and D3-F3 if a 12S is ever created), I agree they wouldn't see nearly as much use as many of the smaller varieties, but you know someone at some point will want one and this way we at least have a name already picked out.  I also agree that the interchange would take quite a bit of space, but in real life, two 6 lane highways merging to become a 10 lane behemoth would take quite a bit of space too.

Capacity issues aside (since the 8S and 10S have crossover paths, they have the same capacity anyway), I think 12 lanes is a good upper limit on highway size.  There are some larger examples in real life, but they are few and many of them involve C/D setups and/or entrance/exit lanes anyway.  Whether the C networks need the extra lanes is debatable as well, but time will tell.

[Tarkus]

I'm inclined to cap it at 16 . . . that'd allow accurate recreation of both I-5 north of San Diego and I-75/85 in Atlanta.  A 16S would cover 6 tiles rather nicely.

-Alex

[GDO29Anagram]

@Twyla: That would be an RHW-8C A2 Ramp, but it only has to be just one side (2x5), to allow for asymmetrical setups.

As of the A3-F3 ramps? There's a good RL example of such on the Maricopa Freeway (The stretch of Interstate 10 that cuts through southern Phoenix, AZ). Phoenix has a good number of these setups. (Phoenix is dominated by SPUIs and stacks; Screwedupclickv2, a YouTuber, calls it Stack Heaven.)

To the south of THAT is an interchange with an example of what looks like an inverse RHW4 C1 Ramp, a TOTSO-type ramp that Maarten would call.

I also conducted my own RHW width experiments a long time ago, to see what would happen if you went beyond 8C/10S. 12S/10C was the max with the current tetra-tile (S networks) and tri-tile (C networks) alignment. I would also agree if RHW were to expand into hexa-tile (S networks) and perhaps penta-tile networks (C networks) that the cutoff would be 16. 14 would be a nice round number, but that would result in just one lane on one of the tiles for the 14S. Plus, 16, as I thought to myself, would provide that extra lane that a few others would probably want. Anything beyond that would require collector-distributor setups.

Remember the RHW-26?

_{I sometimes imagine something like an RHW-36 with an absolute overkill Express/Collector/Distributor setup (Yes, Collector-Distributor combined with Collector-Express).}

[Architect_1077]

Where can I get the RHW road textures so I can start taking a few shots at modelling RHW bridges?