NWM (Network Widening Mod) - Development and Support

[Blue Lightning]

There's a large ton of stuff we can already do without modifying the exe, really. Mainly the biggest item that the NAM Team wishes we can fix is the puzzle piece - TE lot CTD issue, as the method that Maxis implemented is quite flawed, especially with certain piece layout and most notably, with the elevated rail network. Everything else is usually just nice things to have, ie proper double decker networks, new transit networks, etc.

Then add on what might happen with DLL files (interest and development has been rather slow lately though) and other game related things might prove to work better.

[Tarkus]

I want EA to fail so that we can change exe file as you want. It is not fair so stop development of the game with their copyrights. Sim City 4 years is what makes us so much hassle. When will allow us to change exe

Given that EA is one of the largest game developers and publishers in the world, I'd say that's a very unlikely possibility--additionally, a lot of folks would be out of a job, which is the last thing we need in this economy.  Suffice to say, the executable is still of considerable value to EA and if they do ever decide to continue the SimCity series, given the development history of past installments, it would be logical to speculate that they would be able to reuse substantial amounts of the existing SC4 code for that purpose.  

As Vince mentioned above me, there's not much we'd be gaining with the .exe anyways.  And the .exe is a very complicated piece of code, so it would take us a good long while of deciphering before we could even do anything with it.

Can we get something like this , a one way street with Light Rail....

As I have mentioned before, Light Rail/Tram stuff is generally out of the purview of the NWM.  A better place to discuss such content would be on the T-RAM thread.

Back on topic now . . .

Working on getting some of michi's stuff integrated:


That's actually a draggable transition there--it fit into the same 2x2 footprint as the game's default Road-Avenue transition, so I just set it up to override when you hook in ARD-3 in instead of a Road.

-Alex

[ivo_su]

Thanks for the replies. I thought it possible to design something like bus lanes in the right lane of the AVE - 6, 8 and 10
I've seen that STEX already have something like a bus strip remains only to make pieces that can adhere to the new type AVE

- Ivaylo

[MattyFo]

Noticed you have 5000 posts Tarkus!! Congrats! That's quite a milestone.

Not sure if this question is a appropriate for this topic, but considering people in this thread know all about the road networks I think it is.

Anyways on with the question, is it possible to get parked cars on the sides of the road networks?  You can't go to any downtown in the world and not see parked cars and parking meters on the sides of roads.  And now, with these extended networks like the OWR-3 and MAVE-4, they would be perfect.  I assume it would be possible using ploppable functional pieces(which I am trying to learn how to do).  But is there anyway to get them on draggable networks?

Not necesarily a request it was something that has plagued my mind recently.
 

Also does any one have a link to a manual or a extensive tutorial on iLives Reader?  I am trying to learn how to do much more with SC4.


- Matt

[Andreas]

I do not know why so many commented tram mode and its variations. For me it is anachronistic that worked in the early 20th century but today suzdava much more congested than to relieve traffic. At least here in Sofia is. Most major cities in Europe and the U.S. have removed the tram lines and solved the problem with traffic thanks to the subway. Examples of this may be New York, London and Paris.

While this is certainly true for large cities, the main reason why there are still a lot of tram lines is simple: Building subways is very expensive, and only the largest cities can afford such a system. In Germany, many cities were planning a subway system in the 1960s, and quite a few actually started to drill tubes in the underground, but apart from Berlin, Hamburg, Munich and Nuremberg, no other German city was able to create a full subway system. Most other large cities, including Frankfurt, Stuttgart, Cologne, the cities in the Ruhr area, converted to a light rail system, which is underground in some parts, using surface or elevated tracks in other parts, and tram tracks on roads as well. Leipzig has one of the largest tram-only networks in Europe, for instance.

[ivo_su]

While this is certainly true for large cities, the main reason why there are still a lot of tram lines is simple: Building subways is very expensive, and only the largest cities can afford such a system. In Germany, many cities were planning a subway system in the 1960s, and quite a few actually started to drill tubes in the underground, but apart from Berlin, Hamburg, Munich and Nuremberg, no other German city was able to create a full subway system. Most other large cities, including Frankfurt, Stuttgart, Cologne, the cities in the Ruhr area, converted to a light rail system, which is underground in some parts, using surface or elevated tracks in other parts, and tram tracks on roads as well. Leipzig has one of the largest tram-only networks in Europe, for instance.

I know that many meat still using trams but the subway is a modern solution for all capitals and major cities. And hardly trams have a great future - though they stop in the congestion and traffic lights while on the subway that is gone. But no one said anything about any pipe with a rail in them.
- Ivaylo

[Nardo69]

@ivo_su: Depends on what you define as "modern solution". In 2000 1 km Subway cost around 100.000.000,- DM / 50.000.000,00 Euro, I don't have newer figures but I am sure the price has risen. And that is only drilling in "standard ground", no icing the ground water, no drilling through rock etc. and no station(!) included.

I don't have the price per km Tram way but for the price of 1 km subway you should be able to build a 10-20km Tramway line - including some stations!

In addition to this you need to lighten up subway stations, you need to provide escape tunnels in case of as well as a 24/7 emergency center, you need to ventilate the whole system etc. That's really expensive - and it's a continuous daily cost! Just think about the electric bill for all this (without the electricity for the trains itself!).

IMHO a modern solution is building a tube where it is necessary but otherwise stay in the daylight - be it elevated rail, standard rail or tramway. Keeping the tramway tracks off limits from the cars is not sich a big problems - fines, clever traffic planning, separated rails where possible  etc can do a good job - given that you have some traffic engineers that do know their work (Istanbul is a good example what happens if you don't have good traffic engineers ....  )

And think about this: a tramway line can be build within some month, a subway line needs years ...

[MattyFo]

As I have mentioned before, Light Rail/Tram stuff is generally out of the purview of the NWM.  A better place to discuss such content would be on the T-RAM thread.


-Alex

Don't mean to sound rude but perhaps this thread can focus on issues regarging the NWM?

[ivo_su]

@ivo_su: Depends on what you define as "modern solution". In 2000 1 km Subway cost around 100.000.000,- DM / 50.000.000,00 Euro, I don't have newer figures but I am sure the price has risen. And that is only drilling in "standard ground", no icing the ground water, no drilling through rock etc. and no station(!) included.

I don't have the price per km Tram way but for the price of 1 km subway you should be able to build a 10-20km Tramway line - including some stations!

In addition to this you need to lighten up subway stations, you need to provide escape tunnels in case of as well as a 24/7 emergency center, you need to ventilate the whole system etc. That's really expensive - and it's a continuous daily cost! Just think about the electric bill for all this (without the electricity for the trains itself!).

IMHO a modern solution is building a tube where it is necessary but otherwise stay in the daylight - be it elevated rail, standard rail or tramway. Keeping the tramway tracks off limits from the cars is not sich a big problems - fines, clever traffic planning, separated rails where possible  etc can do a good job - given that you have some traffic engineers that do know their work (Istanbul is a good example what happens if you don't have good traffic engineers ....  )

And think about this: a tramway line can be build within some month, a subway line needs years ...

You guys ruin me straight today. I know that trams are used in many momvnta and that are cheap but so what. And horse carts are cheap but all driving cars right? And once built metro network is much more effective than light rail. Another good solution are monorail trains or anything that is not pavement. And what use is 1000 km tramvaini lines only if they hinder rather than facilitate traffic. And as the last argument for the trams made plenty of modifications until its metro is the standard of MAXIS

- Ivaylo

[jdenm8]

Where trams cause more congestion than they solve, it is because there is a lack of collector transit connecting outer suburbs for example to the inner-city tram system. It's the old SimCity 4 adage, if it doesn't go where they want to go, they won't use it.

And once built metro network is much more effective than light rail.

Trams are cheaper to start with, they're cheaper to keep going, and if done properly (contrary to what you believe) do relieve congestion.

And horse carts are cheap but all driving cars right?

Horse carts are cheap, but the horse bit isn't (and it smells funny  ). They're also very, very slow.

And what use is 1000 km tramvaini lines only if they hinder rather than facilitate traffic.

Uh... The point of Mass Transit is not facilitating traffic.

Honestly, If trams are in the path of motor vehicles (which they usually aren't), they're no worse than those damn busses. Trams don't spew Diesel exhaust over the front of your car (if you're driving), they're fun to take your young cousins on from out-of-town and they don't duck and weave across the road randomly with no apparent concern for other road users.

It is not fair so stop development of the game with their copyrights.

Isn't that the point of Copyrights?


Anyway, the point of this thread is the NWM and I think a lot of us would like it that way.

[michi_cc]

Working on getting some of michi's stuff integrated:

That's looking quite nice

[metarvo]

That ARD-3 - AVE-4 transition looks very good, Alex and michi.  In fact, something like that wouldn't look half bad for Road - AVE-4 (even if neither of these are NWM networks), either. 

[j-dub]

Anyways on with the question, is it possible to get parked cars on the sides of the road networks?  You can't go to any downtown in the world and not see parked cars and parking meters on the sides of roads.  And now, with these extended networks like the OWR-3 and MAVE-4, they would be perfect.  I assume it would be possible using ploppable functional pieces(which I am trying to learn how to do).  But is there anyway to get them on draggable networks?

Matt, I don't know if you have been answered, but for regular draggable networks, it had be done, at least streets first got parked cars via other cosmetic mods, and later, SAM (street addon mod), also got parked cars on those streets, all via T21, from you said it, ilive reader. I think you get it from the STEX, but I don't have a link. If it can be done for streets, and since SAM has gotten treated, I don't see why not for road networks, since you already (but may not) notice the existing props on regular roads, like street lights, trees, fire hydrants, manholes, mail boxes, etc, so I don't see why not the same, and parked cars for NWM. I am not an expert on this though, you may need to require a prop pack dependency for the parked cars. You know it is not impossible since cosmetic mods have already in fact been made for the NWM, but I do not remember seeing parked cars on NWM.

As for puzzle pieced parking bays, not a bad idea, I could see this concept being similar to the Signage Piece Addon mod, but since having cars appear parked on streets by themselves already has been more convenient then plopping parked cars for me, I bet others will want their cars T21 exemplared.

[Nexis4Jersey]

I wonder, if it better you get attention from the T-RAMmer's, since that is their specialty, and original OWR is a default network, but I don't see why not another addition, since avenue, road, and eventually streets all got treated with light rail traffic at some point. However, I don't know if such can be done to look exactly like that.

As for the suicide lanes, I thought San Fran had something where turn lanes and the tram or trolley line was in fact shared. Compared to Nexis4Jersey's photo, it does not seem as different, it looks like there is not much room from the parked cars, and rail to have a lane in between, and you actually have to drive on the rail. If you ever saw that movie Inception, that would be prime example of that type of suicide lanes when the US used to have heavy rails like that down some roads, except there would be forewarning and the bell ringing.

There is enough room , there is about a 3ft gap between the width of the train and the parking line.    NJT builds Hybrid Light Rail or Tram-Train as there called in Europe , this is the only section on the Hudson Bergen Light Rail that street runs.    All Future Expansions will use Abandoned Erie and Lackawanna ROW and Avenue Medians ROW.   How about Regular Rail into NWM?   There are alot of Regular Freight lines in the US that share streets with cars.   

[Nexis4Jersey]

Subways are mostly out of scope for the NAM Team, seeing as we can't really do much of anything with them. Their behavior is for the most part, exe locked, and weird things happen when we try stuff.

Though on the note of above ground light rail, many places in the US are turning to it as a solution. I know some Atlantic, Midwest, and Pacific cities have or are building LRT systems.

I started a Topic about Northeastern Rail and Transit plans


http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=11871.0




 

[kings_niners]

Curious, has there been any development on the issue of whether or not the new NWM pieces will be able to go over the RHW pieces, as an example, will the OWR-5 be able to go over a RHW-8 or 10?

[Tarkus]

Curious, has there been any development on the issue of whether or not the new NWM pieces will be able to go over the RHW pieces, as an example, will the OWR-5 be able to go over a RHW-8 or 10?

There has been no development on them, in large part due to the fact that they're a more intensive project that requires modeling.  However, judging by this development, they may not be as far off as initially thought.

-Alex

[jondor]

So, do you guys like teasers?




Enjoy.

[danielra96]

  Those. Are. AMAZING! Sorry I had to put it in caps.

[Nego]

I have to agree, those are Awesome, jondor! I just have one question, are these arrows coded to show up every 4 tiles or are these cosmetic pieces like the ones in the RHW?