NWM (Network Widening Mod) - Development and Support

[Priyon]

Notice that when the author shows the types of networks, his one-way roads don't have any arrows.

Well, you're probably not gonna get an answer from that guy, because that was not the original uploader, it was someone who saved the original uploader's videos.

This is a reupload to this video ever since ErwinNegentig got deleted. Most of his videos were recorded and the description had been preserved luckily.

It's Tropod's No Arrow Mod. http://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/21371-noonewayroadarrows/

Thank you very much, it worked.

I have noticed another minor problem though. Sometimes when I place starter pieces and drag the networks around and then delete the starter pieces when the road is complete, the construction sound remains. Even when there is nothing being constructed, it keeps playing. It occurs rarely though.

[GDO29Anagram]

Sometimes when I place starter pieces and drag the networks around and then delete the starter pieces when the road is complete, the construction sound remains. Even when there is nothing being constructed, it keeps playing. It occurs rarely though.

That's an in-game bug that we have no control of, and you need to save and exit and then re-enter the city to get rid of it. I typically drag out four tiles at a time out of a freshy-placed starter, then drag as far as I want afterwards.

[Priyon]

Sometimes when I place starter pieces and drag the networks around and then delete the starter pieces when the road is complete, the construction sound remains. Even when there is nothing being constructed, it keeps playing. It occurs rarely though.

That's an in-game bug that we have no control of, and you need to save and exit and then re-enter the city to get rid of it. I typically drag out four tiles at a time out of a freshy-placed starter, then drag as far as I want afterwards.

Alright, thank you very much.

(lol, I have a hard time pretending like a noob when I am a veteran modder of other games like Total War )

[FireSka]

I posted this in another thread, but this may be the correct place...

Will you guys be releasing a puzzle piece for a Maxis highway --> 6 lane avenue transition? (2 puzzle pieces:  1 for elevated and 1 for ground)

This would be extremely useful for my cities and currently it looks funny when having to transition from a Maxis highway to 4 lane avenue to 6 lane avenue (creates a bottleneck).

Should be an easy piece to design/code.    

[jdenm8]

Actually, no. The modelling is the hard part, not to mention that AVE-6 is a whole tile wider than MHWY. Unless of course you're talking about to RD-6 which probably has an equal chance of happening.

[GDO29Anagram]

I posted this in another thread, but this may be the correct place...

Yes, you're in the right place. No, your request is not likely to be fulfilled.

I'll say it again: MHWs are notorious for being underscale and difficult to work with, so such a piece has a low chance of being made unless someone were daring enough to make the necessary models. Even so, there's still work to be done with what's currently being developed: RHW.

[Durfsurn]

This is not a request for NAM 31 and this could go in the TuLEP's thread. Next NAM (the NWM focused one) will there be a full suite of turning lane pieces for RD-4, RD-6, ARD-3 and the new networks? Also can a AVE-6/TLA-7 Turning lane middle piece get added?

[GDO29Anagram]

This is not a request for NAM 31 and this could go in the TuLEP's thread.

There are already a few TuLEPs for some of the NWM networks already:

- TLA-7/AVE-6 have an Type A TuLEP that you can plop directly in the median. This is also used for the TLA-9/AVE-8, because of how modular the triple-tile networks are.
- There are AVE-6/TLA-7 TuLEP intersection pieces that can cross with Road and AVE already, but not for AVE-6xAVE-6.
- Some of the Road TuLEPs can be used with the ARD-3.

Additionally, you can couple the RD-4 to AVE-4 transition with the AVE-4 TuLEPs so that you can use the AVE-4 TuLEPs for the RD-4. If you look using Google Maps, there are real-life cases of such.

[Tarkus]

For those who don't know, I am planning on sneaking at least a couple "stocking stuffers"* for the NWM for NAM 31.  If nothing else, the TuLEP-style AVE-6/AVE-6 intersections will make it into the next release.  I haven't made them yet (still focused on P57 base RUL2 stuff), so no pics, but they won't take too much effort.

-Alex

*The use of the term "stocking stuffer" does not indicate a possible release date.  You seriously think I'd be that obvious?

[metarvo]

Hmmm... I wonder what kind of surprises we might get.  The AVE-6 TULEP idea has potential.

The use of the term "stocking stuffer" does not indicate a possible release date.

For some reason, that made me think of this:

[FireSka]

Actually, no. The modelling is the hard part, not to mention that AVE-6 is a whole tile wider than MHWY. Unless of course you're talking about to RD-6 which probably has an equal chance of happening.

I'm talking about the 2 tile piece with 6 lanes, which I thought was a 6 lane avenue with no median.  I realize the MHWs are "underscaled", but I think they are more practical for large cities than taking up huge amounts of space for RHWs.  We have pretty much any other tile we need to create great MHWs so I don't think requesting a link between the NWM piece, which is 3 lanes, and the MHW, which is also 3 lanes is too much to ask. 

Otherwise I'd be happier with RHWs that don't take up so much space.  For example, an exit ramp that is 1 tile wide and the ability to merge it with frontage roads.

[sunv123]

The more you think about it, RHW is actually the realistic size for intersections these days, MHW in my opinion is more for the 1950s-60s. An exit ramp being 1 tile wide would be extremely difficult, plus the fact that RHW is not built in the game, so it wouldn't be stable. You can defiantly ask Tarkus or GDO29Anagram about it, but their answer might be very similar to mine. Look at the lane width, the MHW is way skinnier.

         
Look at the size of the house and compare it to the interchange. It's huge.

P.S, you should say things about RHW in the RHW section, this is the NWM section.

[Swordmaster]

Actually, no. The modelling is the hard part, not to mention that AVE-6 is a whole tile wider than MHWY. Unless of course you're talking about to RD-6 which probably has an equal chance of happening.

I'm talking about the 2 tile piece with 6 lanes, which I thought was a 6 lane avenue with no median.  I realize the MHWs are "underscaled", but I think they are more practical for large cities than taking up huge amounts of space for RHWs.  We have pretty much any other tile we need to create great MHWs so I don't think requesting a link between the NWM piece, which is 3 lanes, and the MHW, which is also 3 lanes is too much to ask. 

Otherwise I'd be happier with RHWs that don't take up so much space.  For example, an exit ramp that is 1 tile wide and the ability to merge it with frontage roads.

Maybe you could help out Ivo_su with creating such a piece?

Cheers
Willy

[cmdp123789]

Tarkus explained to me the same thing or somthing similar to sizes some time ago... the problem is, that not every road or highway in the world are standard sized... for example, roads in America are bigger than the ones in Europe (some parts of Europe). At the same time... when you look at Lower Manhattan, the "highway" (FDR DR) has 6 lanes, yet its only 22 meters wide. When you come to scaling in Simcity, you will realize that 1 tile is equal to 16 meters. Now, if you do that even the Maxis Highway is actually overscaled. What happens to roads is that the sidewalk is included in the width, that's why it sometimes looks like they are bigger than they really are... But, again, the team's standarization is what makes this possible (obviously because of the limitations the game has)... So again, even though interchanges look different, sizes are different... remember, in order to make things work in SC4, standarization has to show... 

[ivo_su]

Actually, I'm ready and textures and file with the path, but I have no ID to go to RULs. As I have no idea how to put in two pieces so late starter.

[GDO29Anagram]

Actually, I'm ready and textures and file with the path, but I have no ID to go to RULs. As I have no idea how to put in two pieces so late starter.

That's actually not how MHWs work. You still need models; Textures aren't even important, since we could just reuse the same MHW textures over and over again, and wealthification on an MHW is completely irrelevant. What's most important are the models that you "wrap" the textures on to. If you don't have those, you can't have a transition.

MHWs are 3D, and even more so, their paths are slightly elevated above the ground. You need a smooth transition from a 2D plane to a 3D polygon.

Take into account how severely underscale MHWs are, you need to elongate your transition to make the transition look smooth. So you need to make a model that spans four tiles, and that it has to taper from six standard-width lanes to the width of about four lanes. You also need to taper down the concrete side walls, as well, or make them modelled off of the AVE-MHW models. In the end, if you're gonna want the piece to be a 2x2, you need to "cut" the model into four pieces, one for each tile.

Since I have no experience in modelling but I know what's in store, this is what you have to do to even make an RD-6 to MHW transition the right way.

Plus, you'd need to reserve an IID, and need to create the necessary RUL-0 or RUL-1/RUL-2 code for it. If you're going for a RUL-0 approach (a puzzle piece), then you'd need to start reading Maarten's tutorial for making puzzle pieces.

So again, even though interchanges look different, sizes are different... remember, in order to make things work in SC4, standarization has to show...

It's not just sidewalks, it's also the wealthification, and in the case of RD-4 and AVE-6, this is why they have the bike lanes. Actually, that is precisely why I don't see the "bike lanes" as bike lanes; They're put there so that the RD-4 and AVE-6 take up more space.

There's an old prototype (and I had also developed my own textures of this) of an RD-4 that did not have the bike lanes attached, and the space between the sidewalk and the road was monstrous.

Also, take this into account: The position of the sidewalks are strange as well (or at least I think they're strange): They're on the edge of the tile, instead of against the curb of the road. Once again, there are places where both cases exist (sidewalks displaced from the road, sidewalks abutting the curb), so the standard for SC4 is to use both: Sidewalks against the tile's edge for orthogonal textures, and sidewalks against the curb for diagonal textures. (And don't get me started on how inconsistent the sidewalk width is...)

We have pretty much any other tile we need to create great MHWs so I don't think requesting a link between the NWM piece, which is 3 lanes, and the MHW, which is also 3 lanes is too much to ask.

Actually, it's the fact that MHW models are hard to work with that also makes MHWs difficult to work with. This is precisely why there has never been a new MHW interchange piece for years, because it takes a long time to even model the piece in the first place, which is the kind of time that would be better devoted towards making modularised interchange pieces, not single-use puzzle pieces.

Anything pertaining with MHWs, unless it's Project Symphony, is not likely to be fulfilled due to the following reasons: Underscaled dimensions and hard-to-work-with models.

[Tarkus]

For some reason, that made me think of this:

Heh . . . Easter stockings--the NAM Team could use some of those.

I'm talking about the 2 tile piece with 6 lanes, which I thought was a 6 lane avenue with no median.

The actual name "6-lane Avenue" or AVE-6, officially refers to the 3-tile-wide network, but many users not up on NAM terminology tend to use that term to refer to the 2-tile-wide one (MAVE-6), like you have, and it confuses us developers.  So the 2-tile-wide one will be referred to as a "6-lane Road" (RD-6) going forward, dropping any reference to the term "Avenue", to avoid that confusion.  Actual AVE-6-to-MHW is not planned.  RD-6 (former MAVE-6) to MHW makes a bit more sense.  But again, it's the models.  Standard MHW models are a pain to make.

Otherwise I'd be happier with RHWs that don't take up so much space.  For example, an exit ramp that is 1 tile wide and the ability to merge it with frontage roads.

Better frontage road support has been on the list a long time . . . but the implementation is still something we haven't figured out.

At the same time... when you look at Lower Manhattan, the "highway" (FDR DR) has 6 lanes, yet its only 22 meters wide. When you come to scaling in Simcity, you will realize that 1 tile is equal to 16 meters. Now, if you do that even the Maxis Highway is actually overscaled.

I checked that road out just now in Google Maps (near 34th St), and compared.  (Note: 50ft. is generally accepted as the US/Imperial equivalent of 1 SC4 tile.)

The actual roadbed on the MHW lies between the coordinates Z coordinates -2.353455 and 7.196106, corresponding to meters.  This works out to just a tad under 9.55m (31.32ft.), or 3.183m per lane (10.44ft.).  If you include the barriers in that figure, the overall width (between -2.813782 and 8) works out to about 10.81m, or 21.62m for the full width.  So FDR Drive is actually a negligible amount wider than an MHW--darn near an exact match.  It's also pretty much the most substandard freeway in the US, with a 40mph speed limit (65km/h), and a ban on vehicles heavier than 8,000 lbs, meaning no buses or trucks.

A carefully worked-out graphical demonstration (which also measures out 34th St, an RD-6, including its sidewalk):



And of course, it is underscaled with respect to the rest of SC4's roads--that's the main problem.

-Alex

[Swordmaster]

If you're in a traffic jam there, you can read the newspaper of the guy next to you. I'd be scared on those roads. Then again, I'm used to having the road (rails) to myself all the time.

I thought the whole scale problem was actually caused by the overscaled automata.


Cheers
Willy

[Indiana Joe]

I thought the whole scale problem was actually caused by the overscaled automata.

That has always really bothered me.  The cars on the road are so much bigger than the ones in driveways and parking lots.  I think that if you use the game's scale though, the cars are actually closer to correctly sized, and it's just everything else that's underscaled.

[Tarkus]

Then there's the matter of the 10-foot-tall pedestrians.

-Alex