Started by z, August 02, 2008, 05:07:50 PM
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Quote from: sumwonyuno on November 25, 2009, 11:30:09 AM[EDIT]: All right, I'll be sending both of your copies sometime this afternoon.
Quote from: z on November 26, 2009, 10:32:16 PMI am proposing to increase the speed and capacity of one-way roads to be 50% higher than that of regular roads, which should make them come out about right.
Quote from: RippleJet on November 27, 2009, 05:39:57 AMEvery time the network speeds have been tweaked, they've been increased... How about this time lowering the speeds of roads and avenues instead?
Quote from: ldog on November 27, 2009, 08:01:21 AMFaster! Faster! Faster! We all wanna go faster!
Quote from: RippleJet on November 27, 2009, 05:39:57 AMEvery time the network speeds have been tweaked, they've been increased...
Quote from: ldog on November 27, 2009, 08:01:21 AMI'd just change the cap and leave the speeds alone. The lessened congestion will provide enough speed advantage.
QuoteHow about this time lowering the speeds of roads and avenues instead?
QuoteOn the other hand, I would also want to hear from Alex if and how this would affect the NWM...
Quote from: RippleJet on November 27, 2009, 09:09:57 AMRead this post and the rest of that thread...
Quote from: z on November 27, 2009, 01:11:25 PMSpeed and capacity go together for similar networks. Not only is this a basic law of traffic engineering and physics, as mentioned in my original post, but it's reflected in the highways and RHW as well.
Quote from: z on November 27, 2009, 01:11:25 PMBut this proposal has been made in light of information I received from him recently about the workings of NWM. Alex has already said that he thought that some increase in the one-way road capacities and speeds would be OK for NWM; the question at this point is how much. I have tried to propose a realistic amount, and there will be plenty of time to discuss it and test it.
Quote from: z on November 26, 2009, 10:32:16 PMSpeaking of alternatives, boosting the speed and capacity of one-way roads would have yet another benefit. A long-standing complaint in SC4 is that all roads and avenues have the same speed limit. If one-way roads have a higher, more realistic speed limit, then players can immediately construct their own higher-speed avenues. Eventually, higher-speed forms of NWM could be made this way. I believe that higher-speed two-way roads could also be made using the one-way network; someone with more knowledge of this process can confirm or deny this. Assuming they could, they would serve as an excellent intermediate between standards roads and RHW-2. And unlike RHW-2, residences and businesses could be built right up against them.I mentioned earlier that one-way roads are considered to give a two-thirds boost to capacity and speed, and I also mentioned that the current setup for Simulators A, B, and Z gives a boost of from 0% to 20%. I am proposing to increase the speed and capacity of one-way roads to be 50% higher than that of regular roads, which should make them come out about right. As I mentioned, this will immediately make faster hand-made avenues possible, while leaving regular avenues unchanged. What do people think about this proposal? If there is enough popular response, I can post a full release of Simulator Z with these changes in this thread within the next couple of days.
QuoteIt's too bad we can't set Intersection and Turn Capacity values separately by network, as most of the benefit of OWRs seems to come at intersections, due to fewer conflict points and the effect of the green wave (which is definitely in full force on the 11th/13th couplet in Eugene).
QuoteIn essence, while it is possible to create a 1-way network out of a 2-way network (see the RHW), it does not appear to be possible to create a 2-way network out of a 1-way network.
QuoteIn all honesty, I think it'd be easier to turn the Avenue into a 1-tile network than to get the OWR network to accept 2-way traffic. Though that would open a whole other can of worms.
Quote from: Tarkus on November 27, 2009, 07:54:44 PMPersonally, I think 50% may be a bit much, and somewhere in the 10-25% range is perhaps more appropriate. That would still work out to about a 50% increase in capacity on 2-tile one-way networks.
Quote from: z on November 27, 2009, 10:31:56 PMFrom my own observations, as well as those I received from other users (which were all in the form of complaints about the current state of one-way roads), I think this overestimates the intrinsic advantage of one-way roads over two-way roads in SC4 by a fair amount. I'd like to make a slightly different proposal here. Instead of a 50% increase, let's try a 40% increase in an open beta. On one hand, we can be rather sure that the results will not exceed the two-thirds premium that is standard in the real world, and what we should see should usually be less. Yet 40% is certainly high enough to make a significant difference from the current state.As far as hand-built avenues go, these would have a 40% premium over regular avenues as well as NWM two-way avenues. The intrinsic difference between one-way and two-way roads does not come into play here. Having a four-lane avenue with a speed limit 40% higher than a standard avenue is certainly quite common, especially in suburban areas; I think it would be a useful and welcome addition to SC4. On the other hand, very wide avenues such as those in the coming NWM are typically found in more built-up parts of the city where there is enough traffic to require them, and in these areas the speed limits tend to be the same as roads.So that's my proposal; we can try it out in beta form and see how it works. What do people think about this?
Quote"You need seven lanes of a two-way arterial to achieve the same capacity as four lanes of a one-way couplet," says transportation planner Michael Cunneen.
Quote from: z on November 25, 2009, 01:12:59 AMThis looks suspiciously like the type of problem that sumwonyuno has been experiencing, in that it could be a case of Nearest Destination Attractiveness being set too low. Could you please try changing this parameter (or Pathfinding Heuristic, as it is more often named) from .003 to .009, run your city for a couple of years, and see if the route changes? If not, could you exit your city without saving, run Simulator A on it for a couple of years, and see if that changes the route?
Quote from: z on November 25, 2009, 01:12:59 AMHaving read Tage's reply and your response, pictures would be helpful for this problem. Also, following the steps I outlined for #1 would be very helpful here too.I see that Tage has answered this one, and I agree with his answer.
Quote from: z on November 25, 2009, 01:12:59 AMHow long did you let the game run after upgraded the street to a road? It can sometimes take between five to eight years for a major change to be fully propagated, even though traffic will start appearing on the road relatively quickly.
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